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The word "largest" is used many times in this article. Are some of these instances better put as "most abundant" or are they actually physically largest? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.3.128.198 ( talk) 22:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
As the split happens, we should keep in mind that we are trying to create a useful tool. It is common for English speakers to dig in their heels to support their own particular vernacular. We should be mindful that there are around 400 million english speakers who call this animal an Elk. According to the Wiki article on English almost 75% of English speakers live in Canada and the US. We should select titles that make wikipedia as useful as possible.-- Counsel 20:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I am not arguing that the numbers alone should be determinative, however, if one looks at the numbers on the English language page, it states that 67.2% of English speakers are in the US and 5.8% are in Canada. 17% are in the UK. -- Counsel 21:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
I have my draft located at User:MONGO/Elk (Cervus elaphus), and of course the title of the article will change. I prefer to simply call the article by the title of Elk and make an Elk disambiguation page for other uses. I know this may not be the most scientific way to do it, but no doubt that the large majority of persons who want to learn about an Elk will be those that use the word most commonly, namely, N. Americans...at least as far as the English wiki is concerned. I ask that no editing of my draft be done until I move it to article space, which I won't do until we agree on a proper title. You'll see that my draft is basically the same as this article, minus the compartive discussions in as much detail and more species specific. It's okay that the articles are similar since as time goes on, they will probably end up looking very different. Once moved to article space, this article (red Deer) will also need to cease the long comparison and many of the images here of the Elk will have to go since we need more images of Red Deer actually. So lets get some ideas going or at least a poll of sorts as to what is the most proper name for the draft and related articles.-- MONGO 21:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Now I am not planning on creating but the new Elk article and working on cleaning up that one and this one to make them species specific...if antone wants to try and develop the Cervus affinis artile (I think also known as the Maral or Himalayan/Tibetan Red Deer), they can, but I have almost zero information on this species/subspecies...but that would complete the list of these Cervids...we would them all...I think each article probably should list briefly each of the most similar species as part of the comparison and link to the Wiki articles on that species. But Red Deers do appear to have a reddish-brown neck.
1. Cervus elaphus in Asia Minor and Europe, (saltatorial/cursorial, generalist)- Red Deer
2. Cervus affinis in the eastern Himalayas, eastern Tibet and western China, (saltatorial, advanced, specialist)- Himalayan/Tibetan Red Deer (article name not yet determined)
3. Cervus canadensis in central Asia and North America (cursorial, specialist)- Elk
4. Cervus albirostris as the high elevation specialist. (cursorial/climbing, specialist)- Thorold's Deer
5. Cervus sika from temperate zoned China (slatatorial primitive)- Sika Deer-- MONGO 19:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Please see discussion at Talk:Elk. I have only just come across this proposed use of the American meaning of "elk" as the primary one, and I disagree. I especially object to the fact that it was done with no prior discussion with those intested in the elk articles, only on the red deer discussion page. I do not think it's right to take the name "elk" for the American species. WP:Disambig says that "When there is a well known primary meaning for a term or phrase (indicated by a majority of links in existing articles and consensus of the editors of those articles that it will be significantly more commonly searched for and read than other meanings), then that topic may be used for the title of the main article, with a disambiguation link at the top" (emphasis added). I strongly dispute the notion that this covers the case of "elk". If you are going to move it, then you must discuss it with the elk-watchers, as well as the red-deer-watchers. I propose renaming the new page something like Elk (American) and reinstating the old Elk page. Gnusmas 08:45, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
The following box contains the text copied from Talk:Elk#Elk (disambiguation):
I strongly object to the renaming of Elk as Elk (disambiguation) and what appears to be the beginnings of moving Red Deer to Elk (or is it intedned that Red Deer to Elk should remain as virtual duplicates?). Elk has several meanings, of which Cervus elaphus is just one. Red Deer is the internationally agreed name for this species. I will undo all MONGO's messing-up of this area, assuming anyone agrees with me. Gnusmas 08:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I am opposed to using Wapiti as the primary name for this animal. It shows up in scientific liturature specifically to avoid confusion over this species, but it is not commonly used. I have lived in 9 different states in the US. I have worked with organizations which do conservation work for elk and I am also a hunter. I have NEVER heard this word spoken. I am truly not even sure how to pronounce it. Placing the article under this as the primary location will be a disservice to the 70+ percent of the English speaking world who live in North America.-- Counsel 18:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I think simplicity, the third animal should be called "Central Asian Red Deer", and I believe that the red deer (cervus elaphus) page needs to be cleaned up. The endangered animals chart poses a problem because the only two deer that are actually subspecies of "red deer" are the Barbary Stag and Corsican Red Deer. The Bactrian Deer, Kashmir Stag, MacNeill's Deer, Shou, Tibetan Red Deer, and Yarkand Deer all belong to the "Central Asian Red Deer" (Cervus Affinis).
User: dlc_73 13:03, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
We now have this article (Red Deer), the article about the N. American/east Asian "Elk" or "Wapiti" at Elk (Cervus canadensis)...so ensure any images are correct to the articles. Anyone interested in going into Commons and sorting out the Red Deer and Elk (Cervus canadensis) images...we need a proper link on the Elk (Cervus canadensis) artilce if a new page with only images of that species is created. I think I have all the links adjusted, and if I;ve made a mess, please let me know. Thanks.-- MONGO 10:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I have edited the Red Deer page to apply primarily to the European Red Deer. I moved the bugling thing to the Elk (Cervus canadensis) page because bugling is associated with Wapitis and American Elks. I would like to create a separate page for the Central Asian Red Deer (Cervus affinis). Also, most of the endangered red deer subspecies are actually Central Asian Red Deer. The only two Red Deer listed that belong to European Red Deer (Cervus elaphus) are the Barbary Stag and Corsican Red Deer. I think by having a third page for the Central Asian Red Deer will be helpful because the majority of the subspecies that are threatened belong to this species.
User: dlc_73 13:03, 16 November 2006
Also, remember, when titling the articles, the genus begins with a captial letter and the species is small case. If you create a Central Asian Red Deer (Cervis affinis) article...the spelling shown would be best I think.-- MONGO 06:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following items from the "See also" section. Please see WP:GTL, "The "See also" section provides an additional list of internal links as a navigational aid, and it should ideally not repeat links already present in the article." If I'm not mistaken, these links are present. Is there a good reason to repeat them in "See also"?
-- Walter Siegmund (talk) 21:51, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
The reason why these animals are listed under "See also" is because they come from a similar ancestral lineage. The sika deer is a predecessor to the three above. I titled Subgenus "Cervus" (Red Deer, Central Asian Red Deer, and Wapiti subspecies) because although these are now three separate species, they are STILL closely related. They belong to genus "Cervus" and Subgenus "Cervus". Sika Deer belong to genus "Cervus" and Subgenus "Sika". Thorold's Deer belong to genus "Cervus" and Subgenus "Przewalskium". For more information, see Deer.--[[User:dlc_73) 17:30, 15 December 2006
The map shown at the top of the page is inconsistent with the current adaptation of Red Deer as three separate species. If this article is solely about the European Red Deer the colored distributon should only be Europe, North Africa, and Turkey. The red areas of Eastern Asia correspond to the Wapiti's (Cervus canadensis) distribution and the southern end corresponds to MacNeill's Deer, a Central Asian Red Deer (Cervus affinis).
User: dlc_73 13:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Mongo, based on the three species classification of red deer, I found a range map from Whitehead's Encyclopedia of Deer. It was based on the two species classification of Red Deer (Cervus elaphus) and Wapiti (Cervus canadensis)(including MacNeill's Deer with Wapiti). It does, however, identify all subspecies and shows each subspecies range in Europe, Asia, and North America. From this map, I have been able to identify the overall range of each three species. The European Red deer's range is on top of page 226 of Whitehead's Encyclopedia should be used in Wikipedia. I can email these in jpg or pdf format. Please let me know, you have left me messages before. Feel free to email me.
User: dlc_73 13:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually this article is pretty well organized and shouldn't take a huge amount of work to FAC...cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 10:17, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Notice of this requested move has been placed on Wikipedia:Requested moves. -- Una Smith ( talk) 18:05, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I suggest that a search for Red Deer (with and without coaptalizations) go through disambiguation. This would ensure that people searching for Red Deer (city) do not get sent to Red Deer (animal) and think there is no article on the city. I am interested in the animal, but surely a city of 100,000 generates a lot of interest, too. I will research this further. To assist me, is there any way of seeing the number of hits on each related web page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Waynercook ( talk • contribs) 17:00, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
This article need some citations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.86.250.100 ( talk) 11:25, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Add templates like {{ fact}}, then. — innotata ( Talk • Contribs) 18:07, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't have the know-how to do this, but would someone please update the map to include the Scottish west coast islands - red deer are found in most of them. Dougiebeck ( talk) 16:40, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
And what does "renconstructed" mean? Deipnosophista ( talk) 14:24, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Isn't a female called a doe? Komododragonfan16 ( talk) 19:18, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
The Deutsch article is much better at giving the biology and human problem interactions. It is also better referenced than the English one. If someone has a love for the red deer, they could usefully add that info here. This article is very UK focused, and the 2 together would give a more international perspective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.22.241.8 ( talk) 16:00, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 16:22, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
I have removed the Cervus canadensis subspecies from the list in the taxobox. I'm leery of just deleting them without permission, so I copied them to here:
2601:441:4102:9010:9D6C:4BCD:C783:ED99 ( talk) 02:54, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
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The map does not include many areas where the animal has been introduced according to the text. Should these areas be indicated? Why / why not? Kdammers ( talk) 08:13, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
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![]() | There is a request, submitted by Catfurball, for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. The rationale behind the request is: "Important". |
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The word "largest" is used many times in this article. Are some of these instances better put as "most abundant" or are they actually physically largest? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.3.128.198 ( talk) 22:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
As the split happens, we should keep in mind that we are trying to create a useful tool. It is common for English speakers to dig in their heels to support their own particular vernacular. We should be mindful that there are around 400 million english speakers who call this animal an Elk. According to the Wiki article on English almost 75% of English speakers live in Canada and the US. We should select titles that make wikipedia as useful as possible.-- Counsel 20:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I am not arguing that the numbers alone should be determinative, however, if one looks at the numbers on the English language page, it states that 67.2% of English speakers are in the US and 5.8% are in Canada. 17% are in the UK. -- Counsel 21:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
I have my draft located at User:MONGO/Elk (Cervus elaphus), and of course the title of the article will change. I prefer to simply call the article by the title of Elk and make an Elk disambiguation page for other uses. I know this may not be the most scientific way to do it, but no doubt that the large majority of persons who want to learn about an Elk will be those that use the word most commonly, namely, N. Americans...at least as far as the English wiki is concerned. I ask that no editing of my draft be done until I move it to article space, which I won't do until we agree on a proper title. You'll see that my draft is basically the same as this article, minus the compartive discussions in as much detail and more species specific. It's okay that the articles are similar since as time goes on, they will probably end up looking very different. Once moved to article space, this article (red Deer) will also need to cease the long comparison and many of the images here of the Elk will have to go since we need more images of Red Deer actually. So lets get some ideas going or at least a poll of sorts as to what is the most proper name for the draft and related articles.-- MONGO 21:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Now I am not planning on creating but the new Elk article and working on cleaning up that one and this one to make them species specific...if antone wants to try and develop the Cervus affinis artile (I think also known as the Maral or Himalayan/Tibetan Red Deer), they can, but I have almost zero information on this species/subspecies...but that would complete the list of these Cervids...we would them all...I think each article probably should list briefly each of the most similar species as part of the comparison and link to the Wiki articles on that species. But Red Deers do appear to have a reddish-brown neck.
1. Cervus elaphus in Asia Minor and Europe, (saltatorial/cursorial, generalist)- Red Deer
2. Cervus affinis in the eastern Himalayas, eastern Tibet and western China, (saltatorial, advanced, specialist)- Himalayan/Tibetan Red Deer (article name not yet determined)
3. Cervus canadensis in central Asia and North America (cursorial, specialist)- Elk
4. Cervus albirostris as the high elevation specialist. (cursorial/climbing, specialist)- Thorold's Deer
5. Cervus sika from temperate zoned China (slatatorial primitive)- Sika Deer-- MONGO 19:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Please see discussion at Talk:Elk. I have only just come across this proposed use of the American meaning of "elk" as the primary one, and I disagree. I especially object to the fact that it was done with no prior discussion with those intested in the elk articles, only on the red deer discussion page. I do not think it's right to take the name "elk" for the American species. WP:Disambig says that "When there is a well known primary meaning for a term or phrase (indicated by a majority of links in existing articles and consensus of the editors of those articles that it will be significantly more commonly searched for and read than other meanings), then that topic may be used for the title of the main article, with a disambiguation link at the top" (emphasis added). I strongly dispute the notion that this covers the case of "elk". If you are going to move it, then you must discuss it with the elk-watchers, as well as the red-deer-watchers. I propose renaming the new page something like Elk (American) and reinstating the old Elk page. Gnusmas 08:45, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
The following box contains the text copied from Talk:Elk#Elk (disambiguation):
I strongly object to the renaming of Elk as Elk (disambiguation) and what appears to be the beginnings of moving Red Deer to Elk (or is it intedned that Red Deer to Elk should remain as virtual duplicates?). Elk has several meanings, of which Cervus elaphus is just one. Red Deer is the internationally agreed name for this species. I will undo all MONGO's messing-up of this area, assuming anyone agrees with me. Gnusmas 08:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I am opposed to using Wapiti as the primary name for this animal. It shows up in scientific liturature specifically to avoid confusion over this species, but it is not commonly used. I have lived in 9 different states in the US. I have worked with organizations which do conservation work for elk and I am also a hunter. I have NEVER heard this word spoken. I am truly not even sure how to pronounce it. Placing the article under this as the primary location will be a disservice to the 70+ percent of the English speaking world who live in North America.-- Counsel 18:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I think simplicity, the third animal should be called "Central Asian Red Deer", and I believe that the red deer (cervus elaphus) page needs to be cleaned up. The endangered animals chart poses a problem because the only two deer that are actually subspecies of "red deer" are the Barbary Stag and Corsican Red Deer. The Bactrian Deer, Kashmir Stag, MacNeill's Deer, Shou, Tibetan Red Deer, and Yarkand Deer all belong to the "Central Asian Red Deer" (Cervus Affinis).
User: dlc_73 13:03, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
We now have this article (Red Deer), the article about the N. American/east Asian "Elk" or "Wapiti" at Elk (Cervus canadensis)...so ensure any images are correct to the articles. Anyone interested in going into Commons and sorting out the Red Deer and Elk (Cervus canadensis) images...we need a proper link on the Elk (Cervus canadensis) artilce if a new page with only images of that species is created. I think I have all the links adjusted, and if I;ve made a mess, please let me know. Thanks.-- MONGO 10:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I have edited the Red Deer page to apply primarily to the European Red Deer. I moved the bugling thing to the Elk (Cervus canadensis) page because bugling is associated with Wapitis and American Elks. I would like to create a separate page for the Central Asian Red Deer (Cervus affinis). Also, most of the endangered red deer subspecies are actually Central Asian Red Deer. The only two Red Deer listed that belong to European Red Deer (Cervus elaphus) are the Barbary Stag and Corsican Red Deer. I think by having a third page for the Central Asian Red Deer will be helpful because the majority of the subspecies that are threatened belong to this species.
User: dlc_73 13:03, 16 November 2006
Also, remember, when titling the articles, the genus begins with a captial letter and the species is small case. If you create a Central Asian Red Deer (Cervis affinis) article...the spelling shown would be best I think.-- MONGO 06:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following items from the "See also" section. Please see WP:GTL, "The "See also" section provides an additional list of internal links as a navigational aid, and it should ideally not repeat links already present in the article." If I'm not mistaken, these links are present. Is there a good reason to repeat them in "See also"?
-- Walter Siegmund (talk) 21:51, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
The reason why these animals are listed under "See also" is because they come from a similar ancestral lineage. The sika deer is a predecessor to the three above. I titled Subgenus "Cervus" (Red Deer, Central Asian Red Deer, and Wapiti subspecies) because although these are now three separate species, they are STILL closely related. They belong to genus "Cervus" and Subgenus "Cervus". Sika Deer belong to genus "Cervus" and Subgenus "Sika". Thorold's Deer belong to genus "Cervus" and Subgenus "Przewalskium". For more information, see Deer.--[[User:dlc_73) 17:30, 15 December 2006
The map shown at the top of the page is inconsistent with the current adaptation of Red Deer as three separate species. If this article is solely about the European Red Deer the colored distributon should only be Europe, North Africa, and Turkey. The red areas of Eastern Asia correspond to the Wapiti's (Cervus canadensis) distribution and the southern end corresponds to MacNeill's Deer, a Central Asian Red Deer (Cervus affinis).
User: dlc_73 13:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Mongo, based on the three species classification of red deer, I found a range map from Whitehead's Encyclopedia of Deer. It was based on the two species classification of Red Deer (Cervus elaphus) and Wapiti (Cervus canadensis)(including MacNeill's Deer with Wapiti). It does, however, identify all subspecies and shows each subspecies range in Europe, Asia, and North America. From this map, I have been able to identify the overall range of each three species. The European Red deer's range is on top of page 226 of Whitehead's Encyclopedia should be used in Wikipedia. I can email these in jpg or pdf format. Please let me know, you have left me messages before. Feel free to email me.
User: dlc_73 13:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually this article is pretty well organized and shouldn't take a huge amount of work to FAC...cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 10:17, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Notice of this requested move has been placed on Wikipedia:Requested moves. -- Una Smith ( talk) 18:05, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I suggest that a search for Red Deer (with and without coaptalizations) go through disambiguation. This would ensure that people searching for Red Deer (city) do not get sent to Red Deer (animal) and think there is no article on the city. I am interested in the animal, but surely a city of 100,000 generates a lot of interest, too. I will research this further. To assist me, is there any way of seeing the number of hits on each related web page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Waynercook ( talk • contribs) 17:00, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
This article need some citations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.86.250.100 ( talk) 11:25, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Add templates like {{ fact}}, then. — innotata ( Talk • Contribs) 18:07, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't have the know-how to do this, but would someone please update the map to include the Scottish west coast islands - red deer are found in most of them. Dougiebeck ( talk) 16:40, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
And what does "renconstructed" mean? Deipnosophista ( talk) 14:24, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Isn't a female called a doe? Komododragonfan16 ( talk) 19:18, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
The Deutsch article is much better at giving the biology and human problem interactions. It is also better referenced than the English one. If someone has a love for the red deer, they could usefully add that info here. This article is very UK focused, and the 2 together would give a more international perspective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.22.241.8 ( talk) 16:00, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 16:22, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
I have removed the Cervus canadensis subspecies from the list in the taxobox. I'm leery of just deleting them without permission, so I copied them to here:
2601:441:4102:9010:9D6C:4BCD:C783:ED99 ( talk) 02:54, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Red deer. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:44, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 20:22, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
The map does not include many areas where the animal has been introduced according to the text. Should these areas be indicated? Why / why not? Kdammers ( talk) 08:13, 24 April 2019 (UTC)