This article is written in Hong Kong English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, travelled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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This article has previously been nominated to be moved.
Discussions:
|
The result of the move request was: move the article, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 00:17, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Ray Chan → Raymond Chan Chi-chuen – Or Raymond Chan (Hong Kong politician) or Ray Chan Chi-chuen? WP:NCP doesn't mention names of people from Hong Kong at all. Therefore, let's analyze sources, shall we? "Ray Chan Chi Chuen" is used by 10–13 articles. "Raymond Chan" is used by five articles. "Raymond Chan Chi-chuen" is used by 15 articles. However, I included additional search terms to skim down results, so results may vary. I don't see articles exactly using "Ray Chan" without any other. WP:DIVIDEDUSE may apply in case of amount of sources. If these policies and guidelines inadequately apply, then let's follow natural disambiguation because HK-style names of this person are neither obscure nor inaccurate. WP:NC-ZH does mention names of HK people, but I'm unsure if it helps or conflicts with WP:AT. George Ho ( talk) 00:15, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Not moved for lack of consensus favoring the proposed move. Since Ray Chan is already an occupied title, WP:NATURALDIS also comes into play here, and favors using a natural variation of the name over the addition of a parenthetical. bd2412 T 00:42, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
Raymond Chan Chi-chuen → Ray Chan – I'm surprise I was not made aware of the previous move, even though I created this page. It all seems like someone is trying quietly make all these moves to this non-existing HK convention as that IP stalker is saying without notifying anyone. There's no standard for Hong Kong names nor there is a convention on Wikipedia, so we follow the Chinese convention or English convention. If you got a Hong Kong convention, show it to me. Raymond is an English name, therefore follows the English convention with only First and Last name in the title, in this case Raymond Chan or Ray Chan. If he's more notable by his Chinese name, then rename the title to Chan Chi-chuen TheAvatar ( discuss– ?) 17:25, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Jasper Tsang Yok-sing which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 11:31, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: move as proposed. It appears the previous move happened with very little discussion, and there is a clear consensus to reverse that decision. ( non-admin closure) Bradv 17:23, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
Chan Chi-chuen → Raymond Chan Chi-chuen – The article was renamed as result of the multi-page move. However, that discussion lacked participants. I was unaware of the moves. I propose reinsertion of "Raymond" into the title. Other sources still use "Raymond". Besides sources, criteria, to which WP:COMMONNAMES refers, have not been discussed. Also, we put ourselves or sources before "general audience"/"readers". This needs proper discussion. More will be explained at the Discussion section. George Ho ( talk) 21:56, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.Sources using "Raymond Chan": RTHK, Hindustan Times, Radio Free Asia, Hong Kong Free Press. -- George Ho ( talk) 22:07, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Very few sources or less use "Ray Chan Chi-chuen", like (again) HK Free Press. Multiple sources use "Raymond Chan Chi-chuen"; Google and Bing can prove that. I tried finding sources using just "Chan Chi-chuen" but found none. -- George Ho ( talk) 22:07, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Criteria may be goals (not rules), but a title must generally meet all five criteria. My analysis:
Meeting criteria isn't enough. In fact, "recognizability" is also insufficient. However, very little or no sources, independent of .gov.hk websites, abandoned "Raymond" in favor of "Chan Chi-chuen". The present title "Chan Chi-chuen" might meet all criteria, but WP:COMMONNAMES would not accept the abandonment of Raymond. WP:NC-ZH is insufficient; so are WP:NCP. Another sufficient page would be WP:NCUE; multiple English-language sources use "Raymond" and "Chan Chi-chuen" in similar articles. Default to "Raymond Chan Chi-chuen" instead. -- George Ho ( talk) 22:38, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Statistics would say that he is very less known to general audience. George Ho ( talk) 22:47, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Lmmnhn, I don't know why you insist on removing "Raymond" from every page linking to the article. The consensus at RM favored reinserting "Raymond" in the article title. -- George Ho ( talk) 12:01, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. There is no consensus to overturn the previous move. It appears that it is somewhat unconventional to use both English and Chinese names together, but there does not appear to be consensus on an alternative at this time. ( non-admin closure) Bradv 20:17, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
Raymond Chan Chi-chuen →
Chan Chi-chuen – I was the one who requested to change it to the previous title so I wonder why it was reverted back to the current title without being invited to the discussion until now. But my reasons for making the move is as stated before: There are some articles who use the "English name+Chinese family name+Chinese given name" but as you can see they are not the created by trained wikipedia editors who are familiar with the common practice. On the contrary, there are more examples which use just "English name+Chinese family name" or "Chinese family name+Chinese given name". If you see the legco.gov.hk you can see that Chan Chi-chuen goes by his Chinese name only. To be honest, although George Ho says there are many English sources use "Raymond Chan Chi-chuen" rather than "Chan Chi-chuen", but let me remind you that is the common practice for them to use the "English name+Chinese family name+Chinese given name" just to be clearer, such as "Donald Tsang Yam-kuen" instead of "Donald Tsang" or "Albert Ho Chun-yan" than "Albert Ho", but that would not make the basis for changing the title from "Donald Tsang" to "Donald Tsang Yam-kuen" or "Albert Ho" to "Albert Ho Chun-yan". So I would like to revert it back to what it was, that is "Chan Chi-chuen" instead of the long and unnecessary "Raymond Chan Chi-chuen".
Lmmnhn (
talk) 12:09, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Currently, "Chan Chi-chuen" is used. Edit: However, previous revisions show frequent changes on the name. At the beginning, Ray Chan Chi-chuen was used. Shortly, the name in the infobox changed to Raymond Chan Chi-chuen. This year, the name changed to Ray Chan and then to Chan Chi-chuen.
Shall "Chan Chi-chuen", "Raymond Chan Chi-chuen" or "Raymond Chan" be the name in the infobox? If neither, what shall the name in the infobox be? Listed for RfC. George Ho ( talk) 03:26, 2 January 2017 (UTC) Amended. George Ho ( talk) 12:57, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
Old signature: -- George Ho ( talk) 05:56, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
Per
Talk:Sia Furler/Archive 2#Infobox title: Sia or "Sia Furler"? and
Talk:Sia Furler/Archive 2#Infobox title, Pt. 2: Sia or "Sia Furler" again?, an infobox doesn't necessarily use a name to match the article title. Struck that part out per Deryck.
George Ho (
talk) 12:57, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Andrewa ( talk) 17:17, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Raymond Chan Chi-chuen → Chan Chi-chuen – (1) His official name is Chan Chi-chuen without the English name as shown in [1]. (2) We seldom use the "English name + Chinese family name + Chinese given name" format but usually either go with "English name + Chinese family name" such as Donald Tsang or simply "Chinese family name + Chinese given name" such as Leung Chun-ying or Hui Chi-fung. Lmmnhn ( talk) 10:19, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
This article is written in Hong Kong English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, travelled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has previously been nominated to be moved.
Discussions:
|
The result of the move request was: move the article, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 00:17, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Ray Chan → Raymond Chan Chi-chuen – Or Raymond Chan (Hong Kong politician) or Ray Chan Chi-chuen? WP:NCP doesn't mention names of people from Hong Kong at all. Therefore, let's analyze sources, shall we? "Ray Chan Chi Chuen" is used by 10–13 articles. "Raymond Chan" is used by five articles. "Raymond Chan Chi-chuen" is used by 15 articles. However, I included additional search terms to skim down results, so results may vary. I don't see articles exactly using "Ray Chan" without any other. WP:DIVIDEDUSE may apply in case of amount of sources. If these policies and guidelines inadequately apply, then let's follow natural disambiguation because HK-style names of this person are neither obscure nor inaccurate. WP:NC-ZH does mention names of HK people, but I'm unsure if it helps or conflicts with WP:AT. George Ho ( talk) 00:15, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Not moved for lack of consensus favoring the proposed move. Since Ray Chan is already an occupied title, WP:NATURALDIS also comes into play here, and favors using a natural variation of the name over the addition of a parenthetical. bd2412 T 00:42, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
Raymond Chan Chi-chuen → Ray Chan – I'm surprise I was not made aware of the previous move, even though I created this page. It all seems like someone is trying quietly make all these moves to this non-existing HK convention as that IP stalker is saying without notifying anyone. There's no standard for Hong Kong names nor there is a convention on Wikipedia, so we follow the Chinese convention or English convention. If you got a Hong Kong convention, show it to me. Raymond is an English name, therefore follows the English convention with only First and Last name in the title, in this case Raymond Chan or Ray Chan. If he's more notable by his Chinese name, then rename the title to Chan Chi-chuen TheAvatar ( discuss– ?) 17:25, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Jasper Tsang Yok-sing which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 11:31, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Chan Chi-chuen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:32, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move as proposed. It appears the previous move happened with very little discussion, and there is a clear consensus to reverse that decision. ( non-admin closure) Bradv 17:23, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
Chan Chi-chuen → Raymond Chan Chi-chuen – The article was renamed as result of the multi-page move. However, that discussion lacked participants. I was unaware of the moves. I propose reinsertion of "Raymond" into the title. Other sources still use "Raymond". Besides sources, criteria, to which WP:COMMONNAMES refers, have not been discussed. Also, we put ourselves or sources before "general audience"/"readers". This needs proper discussion. More will be explained at the Discussion section. George Ho ( talk) 21:56, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.Sources using "Raymond Chan": RTHK, Hindustan Times, Radio Free Asia, Hong Kong Free Press. -- George Ho ( talk) 22:07, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Very few sources or less use "Ray Chan Chi-chuen", like (again) HK Free Press. Multiple sources use "Raymond Chan Chi-chuen"; Google and Bing can prove that. I tried finding sources using just "Chan Chi-chuen" but found none. -- George Ho ( talk) 22:07, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Criteria may be goals (not rules), but a title must generally meet all five criteria. My analysis:
Meeting criteria isn't enough. In fact, "recognizability" is also insufficient. However, very little or no sources, independent of .gov.hk websites, abandoned "Raymond" in favor of "Chan Chi-chuen". The present title "Chan Chi-chuen" might meet all criteria, but WP:COMMONNAMES would not accept the abandonment of Raymond. WP:NC-ZH is insufficient; so are WP:NCP. Another sufficient page would be WP:NCUE; multiple English-language sources use "Raymond" and "Chan Chi-chuen" in similar articles. Default to "Raymond Chan Chi-chuen" instead. -- George Ho ( talk) 22:38, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Statistics would say that he is very less known to general audience. George Ho ( talk) 22:47, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Lmmnhn, I don't know why you insist on removing "Raymond" from every page linking to the article. The consensus at RM favored reinserting "Raymond" in the article title. -- George Ho ( talk) 12:01, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. There is no consensus to overturn the previous move. It appears that it is somewhat unconventional to use both English and Chinese names together, but there does not appear to be consensus on an alternative at this time. ( non-admin closure) Bradv 20:17, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
Raymond Chan Chi-chuen →
Chan Chi-chuen – I was the one who requested to change it to the previous title so I wonder why it was reverted back to the current title without being invited to the discussion until now. But my reasons for making the move is as stated before: There are some articles who use the "English name+Chinese family name+Chinese given name" but as you can see they are not the created by trained wikipedia editors who are familiar with the common practice. On the contrary, there are more examples which use just "English name+Chinese family name" or "Chinese family name+Chinese given name". If you see the legco.gov.hk you can see that Chan Chi-chuen goes by his Chinese name only. To be honest, although George Ho says there are many English sources use "Raymond Chan Chi-chuen" rather than "Chan Chi-chuen", but let me remind you that is the common practice for them to use the "English name+Chinese family name+Chinese given name" just to be clearer, such as "Donald Tsang Yam-kuen" instead of "Donald Tsang" or "Albert Ho Chun-yan" than "Albert Ho", but that would not make the basis for changing the title from "Donald Tsang" to "Donald Tsang Yam-kuen" or "Albert Ho" to "Albert Ho Chun-yan". So I would like to revert it back to what it was, that is "Chan Chi-chuen" instead of the long and unnecessary "Raymond Chan Chi-chuen".
Lmmnhn (
talk) 12:09, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Currently, "Chan Chi-chuen" is used. Edit: However, previous revisions show frequent changes on the name. At the beginning, Ray Chan Chi-chuen was used. Shortly, the name in the infobox changed to Raymond Chan Chi-chuen. This year, the name changed to Ray Chan and then to Chan Chi-chuen.
Shall "Chan Chi-chuen", "Raymond Chan Chi-chuen" or "Raymond Chan" be the name in the infobox? If neither, what shall the name in the infobox be? Listed for RfC. George Ho ( talk) 03:26, 2 January 2017 (UTC) Amended. George Ho ( talk) 12:57, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
Old signature: -- George Ho ( talk) 05:56, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
Per
Talk:Sia Furler/Archive 2#Infobox title: Sia or "Sia Furler"? and
Talk:Sia Furler/Archive 2#Infobox title, Pt. 2: Sia or "Sia Furler" again?, an infobox doesn't necessarily use a name to match the article title. Struck that part out per Deryck.
George Ho (
talk) 12:57, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Andrewa ( talk) 17:17, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Raymond Chan Chi-chuen → Chan Chi-chuen – (1) His official name is Chan Chi-chuen without the English name as shown in [1]. (2) We seldom use the "English name + Chinese family name + Chinese given name" format but usually either go with "English name + Chinese family name" such as Donald Tsang or simply "Chinese family name + Chinese given name" such as Leung Chun-ying or Hui Chi-fung. Lmmnhn ( talk) 10:19, 3 November 2017 (UTC)