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![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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Is he the first ethnically African or Black individual to receive the Nobel Peace Prize? If so, this may want to be mentioned in the article. -- Dpr 03:01, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Walk thru the eucalyptus trees, under Bunche Hall, and you will be in the Sculpture Garden at UCLA
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ancheta Wis ( talk • contribs) 01:53, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Let's begin the discussion per the protocol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ancheta Wis ( talk • contribs) — Preceding undated comment added 04:57, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
It is itself a secondary source, but the nomination of the Ralph Johnson Bunche House for National Historic Landmark status, linked at that page, contains an extensive discussion of Ralph Bunche's life and contributions. It seems to have zip that might be reflected in a good way in this article. I don't want to directly edit this article myself, right now, as i am working on historic places.... Hope this helps. doncram 18:20, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Virtually all major sources give Ralph Bunche's year of birth as "1904," including the UN website. Using the SSDI is ORIGINAL RESEARCH and is thus not allowed. Remember, the Wikipedia rules stress "verifiability," not "truth."
However, getting to the "truth" of the matter: Social Security records are often incorrect, because the person applied for a pension early. Claiming to be a year older=retiring a year earlier. Documents issued when someone is in their 50s cannot serve as proof of birth. I'd like to see what the 1910 census says. Ryoung122 03:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
The 1910 census record ( [1]) lists Ralph "Bunch" (as the family spelled the name at the time), the son of Fred Bunch and Olive Bunch (Bunche's parents' given names), as being age 6. If he was age 6 in April 1910, then this supports the evidence that he was born in August 1903 and not August 1904. This is the date used by the Ralph Bunche Centenary [2]. Based on the "verifiability" standard, "reliable" sources support both years. Mrivlin ( talk) 16:54, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
I've added the CUNY source as yet another citation for his birthday. I have included both dates in the article. The stuff about the census is interesting and probably true, but wikipedia is not a place for original research or "synthesis". Wlmg ( talk) 19:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
There is a discussion of the Bunche birth year confusion in a footnote on pages 25-26 of Sir Brian Urquhart's Bunche biogoraphy Ralph Bunche: An American Odyssey. [3] Urquhart states that the correct year is 1903 and that the error stemmed from the family bible, which Bunche's aunt to a notary in 1940 to get a substitute birth verification when his birth certificate could not be located. Bunche had used 1903 until that time. I wish Wikipedia's programmers had routine way to list these kind of birth year and date confusions. Mrivlin ( talk) 17:41, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
I've added a fifth citation for his birth date. The family bible anecdote makes it all the more problematic because it strongly implies that Bunche himself used both the 1903 & 1904 dates during his lifetime. I'm considering making a section in the article specifically addressing the birth date controversy incorporating all the citations, and let the chips fall where there'll be. I can also contact members of the Bunche family I know personally to see what input they have, but predict their answer will be "huh"? Wlmg ( talk) 18:17, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
I clipped this reference here: <:ref name="centenary"> "Ralph Bunche Centenary 2003–2004". Ralph Bunche Institute for International Studies. Retrieved November 30, 2010.</ref> because it doesn't actually state a year of bunche's birth. that leaves four of them, which ought to be enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alf.laylah.wa.laylah ( talk • contribs) 04:35, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
References
"It was typical then for doctoral candidates to start teaching before completion of their dissertations." Graduate students have pretty much always taught, at various levels and in varying ways, for the entire 20th century and in all fields of study. This is news to no one. including it is like saying the sky is blue and the grass is green. you either know it as a fact (because you went to graduate school), or it is completely unimportant. The IMPORTANT part is this: he was a black graduate student teaching a Harvard (think: entitled white male, children of power brokers) undergraduate class in the 1930s. that is important for its sociopolitical implications. 68.6.76.31 ( talk) 22:53, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
I see two articles listing Bunches father as having died. I cannot find one the cite abandonment.
http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=89
http://www.notablebiographies.com/Br-Ca/Bunche-Ralph.html#b — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.206.168.217 (
talk)
00:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Dr. Bunche's political views should be addressed, and there is evidence, both in what he wrote, and in which venues he wrote, which suggests he subscribed or sympathized with Marxist/Communist theory. This evidence includes his contributions to Science & Society, an avowedly Marxist quarterly founded in 1936 and still published today ( link) , as well as his words in his book on race, alluding to the Marxist concept of the Class Struggle, and his association with Alger Hiss.
To avoid misunderstandings, I myself agree with certain aspects of the Marxist view--therefore, identifying Dr. Bunche as a Marxist or Communist sympathizer is not a slander. Indeed, during the 1930s (before the evils of Stalinism were widely known, during the dark days of the Great Depression and of Appeasement, when many idealistic people--including HG Wells--were seduced by the Kremlin's blandishments) , it would probably have been surprising for an African-American academic NOT TO BE a communist sympathizer, since the American Communist Party was one of the few groups in the United States courageously taking a stand against racism (as in the case of defending the 'Scottsboro Boys.'
Finally, it would be interesting to probe whether the FBI did any surveillance of Dr. Bunche, given his prominence, his association with Hiss, his blackness, and his outspokenness. J Edgar Hoover's virulent racism being rivaled by his virulent anti-communism, Dr. Bunche would have presented the FBI Director's worst nightmare. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guerre1859 ( talk • contribs) 04:56, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
I just added a link to publicly available digitized materials (lots of photographs, but other documents as well) held in UCLA Library's Special Collections. It's a rich resource that I think others will find meaningful and useful, but I'm mentioning it here because I'm a librarian at UCLA. I had nothing to do with the creation of the project, but I still want to make sure that it's generally agreed by page editors that this doesn't represent a conflict of interest. Nafpaktitism ( talk) 00:18, 6 April 2013 (UTC)nafpaktitism
I added a citation needed tag to the article about a statement made trying to associate the Bunch family name to the Bunche family name. The source given goes into detail about John Punch and the possibility of him giving birth to a John Bunch, but I don't see where the connection is made to the Bunche family name. The way this article reads implies that Bunche is related to John Punch and President Obama but the sources given don't make this connection. I'm hoping someone can provide a source that directly speaks to that connection and that it isn't just the result of original research made by a few editors, not substantiated by reliable sources. Anyone who knows anything or can contribute, please feel free to clarify this for me. Scoobydunk ( talk) 00:09, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
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I recently was reading a biography of Mr. Bunche and was surprised to learn that as a youngster, he could not enter his own father's barber shop because it was a 'White' barber shop - My edit was reverted. It is as follows:
Little Ralph was not allowed to visit his father's barber shop because it catered to White customers. [1]
I did make an error on the page number, it's actually from page 51. Was this a possible reason for this being reverted? The system doesn't seem to allow comments or remarks for users to explain why a reversion is executed. I've left a message on the editor's talk page. Any remarks are welcome below. Keep up the good work. I'm very busy and may not have time to respond promptly. בס״ד 172.250.237.36 ( talk) 02:13, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
References
May I respectfully suggest that his childhood experience(s) inspired his humanitarian outlook later in life and therefore is significant? 72.130.204.150 ( talk) 09:35, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Ralph Bunche article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Is he the first ethnically African or Black individual to receive the Nobel Peace Prize? If so, this may want to be mentioned in the article. -- Dpr 03:01, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Walk thru the eucalyptus trees, under Bunche Hall, and you will be in the Sculpture Garden at UCLA
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ancheta Wis ( talk • contribs) 01:53, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Let's begin the discussion per the protocol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ancheta Wis ( talk • contribs) — Preceding undated comment added 04:57, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
It is itself a secondary source, but the nomination of the Ralph Johnson Bunche House for National Historic Landmark status, linked at that page, contains an extensive discussion of Ralph Bunche's life and contributions. It seems to have zip that might be reflected in a good way in this article. I don't want to directly edit this article myself, right now, as i am working on historic places.... Hope this helps. doncram 18:20, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Virtually all major sources give Ralph Bunche's year of birth as "1904," including the UN website. Using the SSDI is ORIGINAL RESEARCH and is thus not allowed. Remember, the Wikipedia rules stress "verifiability," not "truth."
However, getting to the "truth" of the matter: Social Security records are often incorrect, because the person applied for a pension early. Claiming to be a year older=retiring a year earlier. Documents issued when someone is in their 50s cannot serve as proof of birth. I'd like to see what the 1910 census says. Ryoung122 03:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
The 1910 census record ( [1]) lists Ralph "Bunch" (as the family spelled the name at the time), the son of Fred Bunch and Olive Bunch (Bunche's parents' given names), as being age 6. If he was age 6 in April 1910, then this supports the evidence that he was born in August 1903 and not August 1904. This is the date used by the Ralph Bunche Centenary [2]. Based on the "verifiability" standard, "reliable" sources support both years. Mrivlin ( talk) 16:54, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
I've added the CUNY source as yet another citation for his birthday. I have included both dates in the article. The stuff about the census is interesting and probably true, but wikipedia is not a place for original research or "synthesis". Wlmg ( talk) 19:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
There is a discussion of the Bunche birth year confusion in a footnote on pages 25-26 of Sir Brian Urquhart's Bunche biogoraphy Ralph Bunche: An American Odyssey. [3] Urquhart states that the correct year is 1903 and that the error stemmed from the family bible, which Bunche's aunt to a notary in 1940 to get a substitute birth verification when his birth certificate could not be located. Bunche had used 1903 until that time. I wish Wikipedia's programmers had routine way to list these kind of birth year and date confusions. Mrivlin ( talk) 17:41, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
I've added a fifth citation for his birth date. The family bible anecdote makes it all the more problematic because it strongly implies that Bunche himself used both the 1903 & 1904 dates during his lifetime. I'm considering making a section in the article specifically addressing the birth date controversy incorporating all the citations, and let the chips fall where there'll be. I can also contact members of the Bunche family I know personally to see what input they have, but predict their answer will be "huh"? Wlmg ( talk) 18:17, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
I clipped this reference here: <:ref name="centenary"> "Ralph Bunche Centenary 2003–2004". Ralph Bunche Institute for International Studies. Retrieved November 30, 2010.</ref> because it doesn't actually state a year of bunche's birth. that leaves four of them, which ought to be enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alf.laylah.wa.laylah ( talk • contribs) 04:35, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
References
"It was typical then for doctoral candidates to start teaching before completion of their dissertations." Graduate students have pretty much always taught, at various levels and in varying ways, for the entire 20th century and in all fields of study. This is news to no one. including it is like saying the sky is blue and the grass is green. you either know it as a fact (because you went to graduate school), or it is completely unimportant. The IMPORTANT part is this: he was a black graduate student teaching a Harvard (think: entitled white male, children of power brokers) undergraduate class in the 1930s. that is important for its sociopolitical implications. 68.6.76.31 ( talk) 22:53, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
I see two articles listing Bunches father as having died. I cannot find one the cite abandonment.
http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=89
http://www.notablebiographies.com/Br-Ca/Bunche-Ralph.html#b — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.206.168.217 (
talk)
00:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Dr. Bunche's political views should be addressed, and there is evidence, both in what he wrote, and in which venues he wrote, which suggests he subscribed or sympathized with Marxist/Communist theory. This evidence includes his contributions to Science & Society, an avowedly Marxist quarterly founded in 1936 and still published today ( link) , as well as his words in his book on race, alluding to the Marxist concept of the Class Struggle, and his association with Alger Hiss.
To avoid misunderstandings, I myself agree with certain aspects of the Marxist view--therefore, identifying Dr. Bunche as a Marxist or Communist sympathizer is not a slander. Indeed, during the 1930s (before the evils of Stalinism were widely known, during the dark days of the Great Depression and of Appeasement, when many idealistic people--including HG Wells--were seduced by the Kremlin's blandishments) , it would probably have been surprising for an African-American academic NOT TO BE a communist sympathizer, since the American Communist Party was one of the few groups in the United States courageously taking a stand against racism (as in the case of defending the 'Scottsboro Boys.'
Finally, it would be interesting to probe whether the FBI did any surveillance of Dr. Bunche, given his prominence, his association with Hiss, his blackness, and his outspokenness. J Edgar Hoover's virulent racism being rivaled by his virulent anti-communism, Dr. Bunche would have presented the FBI Director's worst nightmare. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guerre1859 ( talk • contribs) 04:56, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
I just added a link to publicly available digitized materials (lots of photographs, but other documents as well) held in UCLA Library's Special Collections. It's a rich resource that I think others will find meaningful and useful, but I'm mentioning it here because I'm a librarian at UCLA. I had nothing to do with the creation of the project, but I still want to make sure that it's generally agreed by page editors that this doesn't represent a conflict of interest. Nafpaktitism ( talk) 00:18, 6 April 2013 (UTC)nafpaktitism
I added a citation needed tag to the article about a statement made trying to associate the Bunch family name to the Bunche family name. The source given goes into detail about John Punch and the possibility of him giving birth to a John Bunch, but I don't see where the connection is made to the Bunche family name. The way this article reads implies that Bunche is related to John Punch and President Obama but the sources given don't make this connection. I'm hoping someone can provide a source that directly speaks to that connection and that it isn't just the result of original research made by a few editors, not substantiated by reliable sources. Anyone who knows anything or can contribute, please feel free to clarify this for me. Scoobydunk ( talk) 00:09, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ralph Bunche. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:51, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Ralph Bunche. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:25, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
I recently was reading a biography of Mr. Bunche and was surprised to learn that as a youngster, he could not enter his own father's barber shop because it was a 'White' barber shop - My edit was reverted. It is as follows:
Little Ralph was not allowed to visit his father's barber shop because it catered to White customers. [1]
I did make an error on the page number, it's actually from page 51. Was this a possible reason for this being reverted? The system doesn't seem to allow comments or remarks for users to explain why a reversion is executed. I've left a message on the editor's talk page. Any remarks are welcome below. Keep up the good work. I'm very busy and may not have time to respond promptly. בס״ד 172.250.237.36 ( talk) 02:13, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
References
May I respectfully suggest that his childhood experience(s) inspired his humanitarian outlook later in life and therefore is significant? 72.130.204.150 ( talk) 09:35, 23 August 2021 (UTC)