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I'm surprised to read of other origins of Purim and that it is not mentioned in the Wikipedia article of Purim. The reason for this must be that Wikipedia is not yet widespread enough to deal with every aspect of every topic, though I hope this entry is getting it one small step forward! Anyhow, I read some interpretations of the origin of Purim to compete with Pagan celebrations of it's time. That Hadassah's name is "Esther" to mimic the popular "Ishtar." That "Mordechai" was a name for a follower of "Marduk." That the parade of commoners in the garb of royality was common in ancient celebrations of the new year usually celebrated at the vernal equinox. Anyhow, I would like to see this issue introduced into the article text so it can be efficiently dealt with -- the benefit of the Wikipedia! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.166.218.154 ( talk) 08:56, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
I see that no one has really been adding references for this article. Since mine is for a single paragraph, I'm putting it here rather than in the article proper. The material I added about 18th and 19th century Purim plays as precursors to Yiddish theater comes from pages 26-28 of:
That book mentions several specific surviving published scripts of Purim plays; this is discussed in a little more detail at Yiddish theater. Jmabel | Talk 00:59, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)
The following was recently anonymously added:
I've never heard of the Stalin matter, and I believe I would have, and I can't believe that anyone much less murderous than Goldstein himself would hold this opinion about his actions. If there is no clear citation for this within 24 hours, I will revert, and I won't object if someone else reverts sooner. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:43, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
In Megilas Esther, there is a Large Vuv, and a Small Tuf, Shin and Zayyin. Together they point to the year 5707. The event happened Hoshana Rabba, 1946 - 5707.
Hermann Goering committed suicide the night before, leaving only 10 Nazis to be hung. Julius Stricher shouted "Purim Fest 1946."
In Esther 9:13 she asks Achashvairosh to grant "Gam Machar" on which there is a commentary saying not NOW but a FUTURE tomorrow.
("There is a tomorrow that is now, and tomorrow which is later" - referring to history repeating itself).
This is noted in an article by Rabbi Shraga Simmons, Aish HaTorah (aish.com), which also mentions that Haman had 11 children, 10 sons and a daughter. The daughter comitted suicide after she dumped garbage on her father, whom she mistook for Mordechai.
The dates are clear. The matter of correlation vs. cause and effect may need clarification, but anything that had the potential to affect more Jews than lived in Shushan at the time of Purim is significant. Someone more talented in terms of writing skill is perhaps the better choice of author, but there is a notion called "Bemakom sheh-ain ish." I will gladly take a back seat to the "ish" (or isha) who does a better job. 15 Jun 07
"each mention of Mordechai is accompanied by whistling" - I've never seen nor heard of this custom, and I hear the megillah every year and go to yeshiva. A person must hear the entire reading, every single word. The noisemaking is restricted to the mention of Haman. Please cite evidence or delete it.
Hi. I'm new to Wikipedia editing, so contrary to your advice, I will not be bold and I will not edit the main article. I am going to make a suggestion about the use of the word "Hashem" in the blessings. Often persons of Christian, Muslim, or atheistic upbringing will read an article about a Jewish holiday or practice as part of a project in a class on World Religions or Philosophy of Religion, etc... (I am a faculty member at a not-very-good university in a rural area of the USA.) Here, it seems as though we are implying that Hashem is the name of the deity worshiped, instead of the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. With that in mind, while I totally understand the admirable desire to avoid using one of the sacred names of The Eternal One in an encyclopedia article, I would suggest either (1) replacing the word Hashem with an underline which would signify to any reader that a word has been removed or (2) keep the word Hashem but link to some article about the Hebrew names of G-d, so that the curious can click through and learn. This isn't just about university students who are only starting their exploration of World Religions. Those who love the Hebrew Scriptures and come to Judaism from an irreligious upbringing often get really confused by the many names of The Eternal One. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.95.170.142 ( talk) 17:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
anybody know anything about purim songs, I remember something that started with the first few words of the megillah but I don;t remeber where or the tune.
Hi guys, great article, just wanted to say that Ani purim is a very well-known song. Omer
"Ani Purim" is a popular Israeli children's song for Purim. It is found in most Israeli collections of festival songs. The ones Jon mentions above are more adult songs sung on Purim in the orthodox Jewish world. Sam 01:03, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi folks, read the article and I notice a big chunk missing, the part about the drinking! Obviously, that's not what purim's all about, but it is a great excuse to get drunk and very merry and a local purim party, singing the greatest purim songs. Someone should add the custom of drinking.
This article makes it very clear that Purim is an important holiday on the Jewish calendar and is based on historical events. If you look at the article on Book of Esther, however, you will see that that Book is little more than a fairy tale which is based on Babylonian mythology. The latter article needs to be seriously cleaned up. Yoninah 23:23, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Someone must have a gragger that they can photograph and upload to commons under the appropriate license? This image is a nice one at sub-thumbnail size, but even at its natural resolution it's got some serious aliasing problems.... - Harmil 21:47, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
The actual date of Purim should be posted in both the Hebrew calendar aswell as the Gregorian calendar as can be seen in Yom Kippur. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.79.39.127 ( talk • contribs) 27 May 2006.
"Purim is celebrated annually according to the Hebrew calendar on the 14th day of the Hebrew month of Adar (Adar II in leap years)," I came to this article to find out what day it is on. One problem is I don't read Hebrew and I don't know the Hebrew calendar. I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for this simple and basic info that should be included in the first sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BrianAlex ( talk • contribs) 06:52, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Azurelove ( talk · contribs) has repeatedly inserted the following content:
In my mind certain events are historically correct, but to string them together to insinuate that Israel and Jews use Purim to kill their enemies is unacceptable. I urge Azurelove to provide supportive arguments here before attempting to reinsert stated content. JFW | T@lk 07:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
On the other hand, Jewish philosophy and scriptural commentators believe that the reason for the omission of God's name is in order to emphasize the very point that God remained hidden throughout this series of events, but was nonetheless present and played a large role in the outcome of the story. Furthermore, this lesson can be taken into consideration on a much larger scale: Throughout Jewish history, and especially in exile today, God's presence has been felt more at certain times than at others. Megilat Esther (and the omission of God's name in it) serves to show us that although God may not be conspicuously present at times, he nevertheless plays (and has played) an important role in our lives and in the future of the Jewish nation.
I'm not saying it is wrong, but it seems to me to beg for citation, and these views should be attributed rather than in Wikipedia's narrative voice: presumably, for example, "serves to show us" should not be in Wikipedia's narrative voice. - Jmabel | Talk 05:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
There should be a table of Purim dates plus-minus 10 years and the way of calculating it from Gregorian calendar and a reference to the place with this information. `' mikka 03:43, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I removed an addition by 207.69.140.35 ( talk · contribs) they were:
As all of it was unsourced I removed it. More importantly the author confuses the idea of Local Purim - found in major books of halakha, and anything good that happened to the Jews. As far the the last reference to a gun powder Purim, it might be Avraham Danzig and the story can be found very close to the end of the Chayei Adam. Still, I don't trust my memory; someone would have to look that up to include it. Jon513 15:22, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Let's discuss what needs to be done, if anything, to accommodate this addition: [3] [4] by an anon. Please do not insert editorial notes in the article, discuss here at the talk page. Thanks. ← Humus sapiens ну ? 20:14, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
TALK discussion: there is Shoshanat Yaakov, which is sung right after Megilla reading. There are the songs that are based on texts (Mishna/Gemara or Tefilla). Then come the songs that come from different time periods, not all in in Hebrew, which may reflect different societies/cultures.
The SONGS section in the Purim article does not make room for
"Once There Was a Wicked Wicked Man"
Ani Purim
Utsu Etsa (in the Siddur, the words before include "SHOAH" - pre Holocaust, it may not have seemed
to have a link to Purim)
Omitting "Once There Was.." would be like omitting "I had a little dreidel, I made it out of clay" from the list of Chanukah songs. Admittedly someone from the Middle East might not consider it a Chanukah song, but then again someone from Syria might consider the phrase "Chaverim Kol Yisroel" to have no place in the monthly Blessing of The New Moon, which is part of the Ashkenaz Siddur.
Ve-nahfoch is also not in any of the above, and is more "Purim" than Mishenichnas.
A more honest approach would be to make a stub article named PURIM SONGS and initially populate it with some of the submitted items, reformatted to Wiki standards.
20 Jun 07
Jimmy Wales seems to support mentioning the Purim-connected death of S-T-A-L-I-N.
As quoted in
http://www.destinationcrm.com/articles/default.asp?ArticleID=7395 (SIDEBAR: No One Likes a Tattletale),
he criticizes those who
'delete disagreeable content without openly saying, "I am so-and-so. I believe this information is incorrect. Here's an article that shares our side of the story." Soon enough, the line gets put back in; the firm deletes it again; it gets put back in; and so on. In the end, everyone is mad at each other, and out come the lawsuits.'
To put it succinctly:
the text that Jimmy Wales suggests should not be deleted reads-
S-t-a-l-i-n, fell into a coma on Purim 5713 and died days later, 18 Adar, March 5, 1953.—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
4.236.177.224 (
talk •
contribs)
Per Mr. Wales, the succinct 1-liner has been restored under ===More Recent=== ([User:4.236.177.224] 10:53, 3 January 2008)
One can find people with numbers on their hands who put on Tefilin. One is more hard pressed to find Russian Jews who are their counterparts. Their surviving relatives may be among those who are first rediscovering Judaism and may still be in need of rediscovering Purim itself.
That so many Jews were saved on Purim 5713 is not Trivia. The number saved may exceed the Jewish population of Shushan. ([User:4.236.177.224] 11:16, 3 January 2008)
Now that the first "Russian" Minyan in the United States, formerly housed in Brooklyn at a Young Israel, has its own building (Ocean Avenue, between Ave L & Ave M), perhaps we're approaching the counterpart of the 1967 Six-Day War, before which it was hard to find many people willing to talk about the Holocaust. SURELY THE HOLOCAUST IS NOT TRIVIAL. Gedolim have compared the 70 years of Communism to the 70 years between the first and second Temples, and Rav Pam ZT"L said at one of the dinners for Be'er Hagolah that if not for miracles during those years there would be fewer Torah observant Jews in America (meaning those whose present day families came from those not murdered as a result of Purim 5713). ([User:4.236.177.224] 11:37, 3 January 2008)
The Stalin thing is an urban legend that keeps popping up. Nobody celebrates Stalin's death on Purim. Insisting that Jimbo Wales would support its inclusion is simply incorrect; the quote is not specifically about this subject. JFW | T@lk 19:25, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Now we're talking HOLOCAUST DENIAL. People were killed. Jews were killed.
You're denying "poised to launch a post-Holocaust holocaust of his own."
IS THIS something that the person you call Jimbo would want to defend?
([User:4.236.177.224] 14:19, 3 January 2008)
People don't celebrate the death of H(Ymach Shmo). People don't celebrate the death of Pharoh/Paro.
Yom Ha-shoah was not widely recognized before the 1967 Six Day War. As there are more Rabbis who are descended from survivors of the "Worker's Paradise" this link to Purim will grow, and no longer be as weak as was the link between the Holocaust and Tisha B'Av &/or Yom Ha-shoah pre-'67.
Wiki is supposed to be inclusive. Stalin was not an Urban Legend.
Jim Wales says post "Here's an article that shares our side of the story."
Post your side if you need to, as Mr. Wales suggests is the proper thing if you want to deny deny deny, but please don't delete. ([User:4.236.177.224] 13:37, 3 January 2008)
I Agree. The following statement, nonetheless is true:
Although some people do (
http://www.jewishmag.com/65mag/stalin/stalin.htm) and some people (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Purim#Wales_.28More_Recent.29_Purim) don't see a direct connection between Purim, which celebrates The Intervention of The Hidden Hand, and Joseph Stalin's stroke on Purim 5713/1953, Stalin's death 4 days later passes the trivia test
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jfdwolff/Editorial_policies#The_trivia_test of "this event made a lasting impact on the public." ([User:4.236.177.224] 16:13, 3 January 2008)
Somewhere there is a Commentary that we do not know how evil were the plans of a particular Biblical evil person, but he knew and we therefore must be Thankful for being saved.
Two passages in the section on "The Purim story" seem inconsistent. I hope someone more knowledgeable can explain it a little better for the benefit of readers like me who are confused.
The article states:
Having found out that Mordechai is Jewish, Haman plans to kill not just Mordechai but the entire Jewish minority in the empire. He obtains Ahasuerus' permission, against payment of ten thousand talents of silver, to execute this plan....
That evening, Ahasuerus and Haman attend Esther's second banquet, at which she reveals that she is Jewish and that Haman is planning to exterminate her people. Ahasuerus orders Haman hanged....
The second passage gives the impression that Esther revealed to Ahasuerus that Haman planned to kill the Jews, but the first passage says that Haman had already obtained Ahasuerus's permission for the plan. If all that was revealed at the banquet was that Esther was Jewish, then perhaps the second passage should read, "...at which she reveals that she is Jewish and that it is her people that Haman is planning to exterminate." Is that what's meant? JamesMLane t c 05:20, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
in Boisterousness in the synagogue there is a passage:
that doesn't make much sense -- IIRC I've never met word grzégarz in my whole 24year life in Poland. It even looks awkward. Only thing that looks a little bit similar is masculine name pl:Grzegorz or Gregory in english. Can author fix this please? 217.76.116.141 ( talk) 12:51, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I've removed the bit about this as modern scholarship has pretty much refuted the idea that Hecataeus of Abdera wrote this, eg [6]. dougweller ( talk) 17:22, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
In spite of attempts by some editors here to downplay the political significance of Purim, I feel that comments on relevant political matters are appropriate within the scope of the article. For instance, various Palestinians officials claim that Purim is the true cause of annual military attacks on the Arab territories. [7] There are also conspiracy theories that focus on blood mixed with Purim Pastries. [8] And too, noted anti-semite Julius Streicher claimed that the hangings that followed the Nuremburg Trials were a consequence of Purim in 1946. [9] An interesting book on the topic is Reckless Rites by Elliott Horowitz. [10] ADM ( talk) 08:04, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
What exactly is meant by the "story of Purim?" If by that we mean a summary of the Book of Esther then the part about Vashti being ordered to dance naked should be removed. That's not in Esther 1:11. Carneadiiz ( talk) 06:17, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
There is no mention of Purim's relation to the Persian holiday Nowrooz in this article however a mention does exist in the Nowrooz article, I believe this should be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.118.33.51 ( talk) 23:28, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
Is there a more serious picture and caption to represent purim? the current photo comes with no caption and doesn't seem right. Perhaps it could be moved down to the body of the article? Wikifan12345 ( talk) 06:26, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Several inaccuracies: The three-day Purim in Jerusalem is called Purim Meshulash, not Purim Hameshulash. It never occurs after a two year interval. The minimum interval is three years (1974 to 1977; 2005 to 2008). The maximum interval is twenty years, not 13 years (1954 to 1974; and this interval will occur again 2025 to 2045). Other possible intervals are four years (1977 to 1981; 2001 to 2005). Seven years (1994 to 2001). Thirteen years (1981 to 1994; 2008 to 2021). Kepipesiom ( talk) 15:01, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
There having been no disagreement or further discussion I am going to edit the page to reflect the above comments. Kepipesiom ( talk) 04:16, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
The Hebrew word the, when part of a word, is anglized as Ha.... Hence, "The Triple Purim" is grammatically written Purim HaMeShuLash, with without the UpLo, Purim HaMeshulash. source: Aish.com, which says, Quote: "(Although grammatically it is Purim hameshulash, people usually call it 'Purim Meshulash.') This certainly merits being in the article, even if just as a RefNote. Pi314m ( talk) 06:40, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Dalai lama ding dong ( talk · contribs) seems to be opposed to including the anecdote that Julius Streicher exclaimed "Purim Fest 1946!" when hanged together with nine other prominent Nazi convicts of the Nuremberg Trials. This is well known and often repeated, and the fact that he said this is not disputed (it was reported in the New York Herald Tribune on 16 October 1946). There are numerous sources that could be cited, and even skeptical sources do not doubt it. [13] JFW | T@lk 11:44, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
This is the unsourced section called "Rabbinic interpretations". It contains the central points of widely repeated inspirational thought related to Purim. I cannot source it currently, and it seems to have been written with a religious audience in mind:
“ | Traditional Jews believe that God is hidden behind all the events of the Megillah. Rabbis referred to God's role as hester panim, or "hiding of the Face", which is also said to be hinted at in a word play (Megillat Hester) regarding the Hebrew name for the Book of Esther, Megillat Esther—literally, "revelation of [that which is] hidden"). Although Jews believe that everything turned out for the best as a direct result of Divine intervention (that is, a series of miracles), the Book of Esther lacks any mention of God's name, and the events described in it appear to have been nothing more than a result of natural occurrences. On the other hand, Jewish philosophers and scriptural commentators believe that God's name is omitted to emphasize the very point that God remained hidden throughout the story, but was nonetheless present and played a large role in its outcome. Furthermore, this lesson can be applied on a much larger scale: Throughout Jewish history, and especially in the present Jewish diaspora, God's presence has been felt more at certain times than at others. Megillat Esther (and the omission of God's name in it) serves to show that although God may not be conspicuously present at times, He nevertheless plays (and has played) an important role in everyone's lives and in the future of the Jewish nation. In remembrance of how God remained hidden throughout the Purim miracle, Jews dress up on Purim and many hide their faces. | ” |
It can be returned in a rephrased form with high-quality secondary sources. JFW | T@lk 11:53, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
I have restructured the article to distinguish between "Observances" (mandated either by Biblical or rabbinical commandment or [if later] codified in the Shulchan Aruch), and "Customs" (which are not kept by everyone). Now because only the city of Jerusalem now keeps Purim Shushan, and "Purim Meshulash" only occurs in Jerusalem, I have grouped all these sections under "In Jerusalem".
I am at a bit of a loss about what to do with "Purim and the Nazis". This seems relevant, but I cannot believe that there have not been other historical occurrences that should be mentioned in this context. If that is the case, perhaps the title should be changed.
As with regards to sourcing, a lot of the current content is referenced to primary sources (especially the Talmud quotes), and it would be good if we backed these up with secondary sources also. JFW | T@lk 12:06, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
The way Iranians pronounce it is closer to "Ahasuerus" than "Xerxes". The Article makes it seem as if Xerxes is the proper name and Ahasuerus might be him; but there is not Aryan king ever named "Xerxes" phonetically in Parsi. Just like Iranian almost never called themselves Persian in their own language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.41.108.172 ( talk) 07:16, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Purim is not about senseless killing of some fictitious tyrannical Iranian kingdom. That is utterly racist. I have seen bizarre spin on Wikipedia that have the undertones of Anti-Iranian sentiment. It is story whereby Iranians assisted Jews from a conspiracy to destroy them; and in this process the attackers who were given false orders by way of corruption where defeated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.41.108.172 ( talk) 07:24, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Just as in the Halloween costume's wikipedia page, there should be a section about this. People need to explain why they are removing it. BenjaminHold ( talk) 20:24, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
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This article, in at least a couple of places, indicates that the king is Artaxerxes I. This is in conflict with the Wikipedia article "Book of Esther," which claims that "Ahasuerus is usually identified in modern sources as Xerxes I, who ruled between 486 and 465 BCE," allowing for the possibility that it could also be "either Artaxerxes I (reigned 465 to 424 BCE) or Artaxerxes II (reigned 404 to 358 BCE)." Someone should reconcile these two articles. (I don't feel qualified to do so, having no knowledge beyond what's in the articles themselves.) 2604:2000:EFC0:2:28C9:9497:C68B:2C0B ( talk) 05:32, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
It is a travesty that the only mention of the real background to this story has to be a quote by Hitler. After their delivery from Babylon, Cyrus permitted the Jews to return to Jerusalem and it's environs and rebuild their temple. They were still part of the empire and a garrison was posted to defend the empire AND to defend those Jews against their mortal enemies, the idol worshipping Semites of Mesopotamia, who viewed them as deniers of their gods. This garrison was slaughtered and the news prompted the king to order the destruction of the ungrateful tribe. It's quite natural that a version of this perfidy offered by it's perpetrators whitewashes the events. However Purim is the celebration of the massacre of Persian soldiers and getting away with it. SBader ( talk) 17:39, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Please stop these foolish, intellectually dishonest "CE/BCE" euphemisms and return to AD/BC nomenclature: It's obvious that "CE/BCE" uses Dionysius's dating from the time of Christ. If you want to reject this dating system, then actually do so by picking a different dating point. To use CE/BCE, i.e. to date from the time of Christ yet refuse to mention Him, is dishonest, and dishonesty has no place in any serious encyclopedia. Not only is this "Common Era"/"Before Common Era" nomenclature dishonest, it is obviously false (at least without eschatological reference to the Incarnation): The world did not share a 'common era' until the world-wide web. Thus, the CE/BCE nomenclature degrades the quality of Wikipedia through its foolishness, dishonesty, falseness, and absurdity. Please stop using it. -- Newagelink ( talk) 01:56, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
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the Phrase, the editors used original research, such as Berossus and Josephus and Josippon which is absolutely Primary source and can't be used in historical assays. for more information, see Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (history) -- Dandamayev ( talk) 08:21, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
Does that story about the Lubavitcher Rebbe really belong here? Ifyes, dies every similar story merit a place here? If we are going to put in every Purim mofes story from every Rebbe, this will become the longest page on Wikipedia. High Leader ( talk) 04:48, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
The translation given here is Hamen’s Pockets, but over at the linked page for hamentashen the translation given is Haman's Ears. Someone knowledgeable needs to resolve this (or maybe not provide a translation and leave it up to the hamentashen page to provide the possible translations). 73.60.152.125 ( talk) 12:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
The article currently reads
Purim is the plural of Hebrew pur,[dubious – discuss] meaning casting lots in the sense of making a random selection.
And cites an English dictionary to this effect, that I suspect is not WP:Reliable source in this case.
I'm pretty sure that "pur" is actually a Farsi Akkadian word, the Hebrew is "goral". Because the word "pur" is unfamiliar, it is defined as such goral - lot, in the Hebrew text. The word "goral" is used everywhere else in Tanak, at least among the dozens of occurences I've encountered (psalm 16, deuteronomy, Joshua, etc.) never seen "pur" or "purim" outside of megillat Esther. I'm only 80% sure on this, so I will refrain from
WP:Boldly changing it.
Jaredscribe (
talk)
21:48, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
The information we give in the article is inconsistent. If there are indeed several pronunciations in use, this could (should?) be mentioned.
-- 176.12.227.62 ( talk) 13:00, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
Noori Sadat Shahangian is a professor of al-zahra university in judaism and she is published her issue in Encyclopædia of Iran (Daneshnameye iran), which is edited by Kazem Mousavi-Bojnourdi and published by Center for the Great Islamic Encyclopedia. what's the matter ? Jentilir ( talk) 15:39, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
I'm fine with midrash about the Purim narrative being included, but I think it should be identified as such. What most Jews think you're referring to when you say "the Purim story" is the story as told in Megillat Esther. The existing text of the article does mention some midrashic interpretation, with the note "One rabbinical tradition interprets this...". There's no reason not to mention the tzaraath interpretation, or the Haman's-daughter sidebar, if you want, but they should be highlighted in the same way as midrashic interpretation, not integrated as inherently part of the narrative. AJD ( talk) 21:32, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
I've moved this material to the Talk page for discussion. It appears to be about the Book of Esther, not the holiday of Purim, and therefore belongs in the former article and not the latter. As far as I can tell, the sources themselves do not discuss the holiday of Purim.
All of the books of the Old Testament, except the book of Esther, were discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls by Archaeologists in 20th century. [1]
Amnon Netzer and Shaul Shaked argue that the names "Mordecai" and "Esther" are similar to those of the Babylonian gods Marduk and Ishtar. [2] [3] Scholars W.S. McCullough, Muhammad Dandamayev and Shaul Shaked say that the Book of Esther is historical fiction. [3] [4] [5] Amélie Kuhrt says the Book of Esther was composed in the Hellenistic period and it shows a perspective of Persian court identical to classical Greek books. [6] Shaul Shaked says the date of composition of the book is unknown, but most likely not much after the fall of the Achaemenid kingdom, during the Parthian period, perhaps in the 3rd or 2nd century BCE. [3] McCullough also suggests that Herodotus recorded the name of Xerxes's queen as Amestris (the daughter of Otanes) and not as Esther. [5] Scholars Albert I. Baumgarten and S. David Sperling and R.J. Littman say that, according to Herodotus, Xerxes could only marry a daughter of one of the six allies of his father Darius I. [7] [8]
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I'm surprised to read of other origins of Purim and that it is not mentioned in the Wikipedia article of Purim. The reason for this must be that Wikipedia is not yet widespread enough to deal with every aspect of every topic, though I hope this entry is getting it one small step forward! Anyhow, I read some interpretations of the origin of Purim to compete with Pagan celebrations of it's time. That Hadassah's name is "Esther" to mimic the popular "Ishtar." That "Mordechai" was a name for a follower of "Marduk." That the parade of commoners in the garb of royality was common in ancient celebrations of the new year usually celebrated at the vernal equinox. Anyhow, I would like to see this issue introduced into the article text so it can be efficiently dealt with -- the benefit of the Wikipedia! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.166.218.154 ( talk) 08:56, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
I see that no one has really been adding references for this article. Since mine is for a single paragraph, I'm putting it here rather than in the article proper. The material I added about 18th and 19th century Purim plays as precursors to Yiddish theater comes from pages 26-28 of:
That book mentions several specific surviving published scripts of Purim plays; this is discussed in a little more detail at Yiddish theater. Jmabel | Talk 00:59, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)
The following was recently anonymously added:
I've never heard of the Stalin matter, and I believe I would have, and I can't believe that anyone much less murderous than Goldstein himself would hold this opinion about his actions. If there is no clear citation for this within 24 hours, I will revert, and I won't object if someone else reverts sooner. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:43, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
In Megilas Esther, there is a Large Vuv, and a Small Tuf, Shin and Zayyin. Together they point to the year 5707. The event happened Hoshana Rabba, 1946 - 5707.
Hermann Goering committed suicide the night before, leaving only 10 Nazis to be hung. Julius Stricher shouted "Purim Fest 1946."
In Esther 9:13 she asks Achashvairosh to grant "Gam Machar" on which there is a commentary saying not NOW but a FUTURE tomorrow.
("There is a tomorrow that is now, and tomorrow which is later" - referring to history repeating itself).
This is noted in an article by Rabbi Shraga Simmons, Aish HaTorah (aish.com), which also mentions that Haman had 11 children, 10 sons and a daughter. The daughter comitted suicide after she dumped garbage on her father, whom she mistook for Mordechai.
The dates are clear. The matter of correlation vs. cause and effect may need clarification, but anything that had the potential to affect more Jews than lived in Shushan at the time of Purim is significant. Someone more talented in terms of writing skill is perhaps the better choice of author, but there is a notion called "Bemakom sheh-ain ish." I will gladly take a back seat to the "ish" (or isha) who does a better job. 15 Jun 07
"each mention of Mordechai is accompanied by whistling" - I've never seen nor heard of this custom, and I hear the megillah every year and go to yeshiva. A person must hear the entire reading, every single word. The noisemaking is restricted to the mention of Haman. Please cite evidence or delete it.
Hi. I'm new to Wikipedia editing, so contrary to your advice, I will not be bold and I will not edit the main article. I am going to make a suggestion about the use of the word "Hashem" in the blessings. Often persons of Christian, Muslim, or atheistic upbringing will read an article about a Jewish holiday or practice as part of a project in a class on World Religions or Philosophy of Religion, etc... (I am a faculty member at a not-very-good university in a rural area of the USA.) Here, it seems as though we are implying that Hashem is the name of the deity worshiped, instead of the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. With that in mind, while I totally understand the admirable desire to avoid using one of the sacred names of The Eternal One in an encyclopedia article, I would suggest either (1) replacing the word Hashem with an underline which would signify to any reader that a word has been removed or (2) keep the word Hashem but link to some article about the Hebrew names of G-d, so that the curious can click through and learn. This isn't just about university students who are only starting their exploration of World Religions. Those who love the Hebrew Scriptures and come to Judaism from an irreligious upbringing often get really confused by the many names of The Eternal One. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.95.170.142 ( talk) 17:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
anybody know anything about purim songs, I remember something that started with the first few words of the megillah but I don;t remeber where or the tune.
Hi guys, great article, just wanted to say that Ani purim is a very well-known song. Omer
"Ani Purim" is a popular Israeli children's song for Purim. It is found in most Israeli collections of festival songs. The ones Jon mentions above are more adult songs sung on Purim in the orthodox Jewish world. Sam 01:03, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi folks, read the article and I notice a big chunk missing, the part about the drinking! Obviously, that's not what purim's all about, but it is a great excuse to get drunk and very merry and a local purim party, singing the greatest purim songs. Someone should add the custom of drinking.
This article makes it very clear that Purim is an important holiday on the Jewish calendar and is based on historical events. If you look at the article on Book of Esther, however, you will see that that Book is little more than a fairy tale which is based on Babylonian mythology. The latter article needs to be seriously cleaned up. Yoninah 23:23, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Someone must have a gragger that they can photograph and upload to commons under the appropriate license? This image is a nice one at sub-thumbnail size, but even at its natural resolution it's got some serious aliasing problems.... - Harmil 21:47, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
The actual date of Purim should be posted in both the Hebrew calendar aswell as the Gregorian calendar as can be seen in Yom Kippur. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.79.39.127 ( talk • contribs) 27 May 2006.
"Purim is celebrated annually according to the Hebrew calendar on the 14th day of the Hebrew month of Adar (Adar II in leap years)," I came to this article to find out what day it is on. One problem is I don't read Hebrew and I don't know the Hebrew calendar. I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for this simple and basic info that should be included in the first sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BrianAlex ( talk • contribs) 06:52, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Azurelove ( talk · contribs) has repeatedly inserted the following content:
In my mind certain events are historically correct, but to string them together to insinuate that Israel and Jews use Purim to kill their enemies is unacceptable. I urge Azurelove to provide supportive arguments here before attempting to reinsert stated content. JFW | T@lk 07:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
On the other hand, Jewish philosophy and scriptural commentators believe that the reason for the omission of God's name is in order to emphasize the very point that God remained hidden throughout this series of events, but was nonetheless present and played a large role in the outcome of the story. Furthermore, this lesson can be taken into consideration on a much larger scale: Throughout Jewish history, and especially in exile today, God's presence has been felt more at certain times than at others. Megilat Esther (and the omission of God's name in it) serves to show us that although God may not be conspicuously present at times, he nevertheless plays (and has played) an important role in our lives and in the future of the Jewish nation.
I'm not saying it is wrong, but it seems to me to beg for citation, and these views should be attributed rather than in Wikipedia's narrative voice: presumably, for example, "serves to show us" should not be in Wikipedia's narrative voice. - Jmabel | Talk 05:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
There should be a table of Purim dates plus-minus 10 years and the way of calculating it from Gregorian calendar and a reference to the place with this information. `' mikka 03:43, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I removed an addition by 207.69.140.35 ( talk · contribs) they were:
As all of it was unsourced I removed it. More importantly the author confuses the idea of Local Purim - found in major books of halakha, and anything good that happened to the Jews. As far the the last reference to a gun powder Purim, it might be Avraham Danzig and the story can be found very close to the end of the Chayei Adam. Still, I don't trust my memory; someone would have to look that up to include it. Jon513 15:22, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Let's discuss what needs to be done, if anything, to accommodate this addition: [3] [4] by an anon. Please do not insert editorial notes in the article, discuss here at the talk page. Thanks. ← Humus sapiens ну ? 20:14, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
TALK discussion: there is Shoshanat Yaakov, which is sung right after Megilla reading. There are the songs that are based on texts (Mishna/Gemara or Tefilla). Then come the songs that come from different time periods, not all in in Hebrew, which may reflect different societies/cultures.
The SONGS section in the Purim article does not make room for
"Once There Was a Wicked Wicked Man"
Ani Purim
Utsu Etsa (in the Siddur, the words before include "SHOAH" - pre Holocaust, it may not have seemed
to have a link to Purim)
Omitting "Once There Was.." would be like omitting "I had a little dreidel, I made it out of clay" from the list of Chanukah songs. Admittedly someone from the Middle East might not consider it a Chanukah song, but then again someone from Syria might consider the phrase "Chaverim Kol Yisroel" to have no place in the monthly Blessing of The New Moon, which is part of the Ashkenaz Siddur.
Ve-nahfoch is also not in any of the above, and is more "Purim" than Mishenichnas.
A more honest approach would be to make a stub article named PURIM SONGS and initially populate it with some of the submitted items, reformatted to Wiki standards.
20 Jun 07
Jimmy Wales seems to support mentioning the Purim-connected death of S-T-A-L-I-N.
As quoted in
http://www.destinationcrm.com/articles/default.asp?ArticleID=7395 (SIDEBAR: No One Likes a Tattletale),
he criticizes those who
'delete disagreeable content without openly saying, "I am so-and-so. I believe this information is incorrect. Here's an article that shares our side of the story." Soon enough, the line gets put back in; the firm deletes it again; it gets put back in; and so on. In the end, everyone is mad at each other, and out come the lawsuits.'
To put it succinctly:
the text that Jimmy Wales suggests should not be deleted reads-
S-t-a-l-i-n, fell into a coma on Purim 5713 and died days later, 18 Adar, March 5, 1953.—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
4.236.177.224 (
talk •
contribs)
Per Mr. Wales, the succinct 1-liner has been restored under ===More Recent=== ([User:4.236.177.224] 10:53, 3 January 2008)
One can find people with numbers on their hands who put on Tefilin. One is more hard pressed to find Russian Jews who are their counterparts. Their surviving relatives may be among those who are first rediscovering Judaism and may still be in need of rediscovering Purim itself.
That so many Jews were saved on Purim 5713 is not Trivia. The number saved may exceed the Jewish population of Shushan. ([User:4.236.177.224] 11:16, 3 January 2008)
Now that the first "Russian" Minyan in the United States, formerly housed in Brooklyn at a Young Israel, has its own building (Ocean Avenue, between Ave L & Ave M), perhaps we're approaching the counterpart of the 1967 Six-Day War, before which it was hard to find many people willing to talk about the Holocaust. SURELY THE HOLOCAUST IS NOT TRIVIAL. Gedolim have compared the 70 years of Communism to the 70 years between the first and second Temples, and Rav Pam ZT"L said at one of the dinners for Be'er Hagolah that if not for miracles during those years there would be fewer Torah observant Jews in America (meaning those whose present day families came from those not murdered as a result of Purim 5713). ([User:4.236.177.224] 11:37, 3 January 2008)
The Stalin thing is an urban legend that keeps popping up. Nobody celebrates Stalin's death on Purim. Insisting that Jimbo Wales would support its inclusion is simply incorrect; the quote is not specifically about this subject. JFW | T@lk 19:25, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Now we're talking HOLOCAUST DENIAL. People were killed. Jews were killed.
You're denying "poised to launch a post-Holocaust holocaust of his own."
IS THIS something that the person you call Jimbo would want to defend?
([User:4.236.177.224] 14:19, 3 January 2008)
People don't celebrate the death of H(Ymach Shmo). People don't celebrate the death of Pharoh/Paro.
Yom Ha-shoah was not widely recognized before the 1967 Six Day War. As there are more Rabbis who are descended from survivors of the "Worker's Paradise" this link to Purim will grow, and no longer be as weak as was the link between the Holocaust and Tisha B'Av &/or Yom Ha-shoah pre-'67.
Wiki is supposed to be inclusive. Stalin was not an Urban Legend.
Jim Wales says post "Here's an article that shares our side of the story."
Post your side if you need to, as Mr. Wales suggests is the proper thing if you want to deny deny deny, but please don't delete. ([User:4.236.177.224] 13:37, 3 January 2008)
I Agree. The following statement, nonetheless is true:
Although some people do (
http://www.jewishmag.com/65mag/stalin/stalin.htm) and some people (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Purim#Wales_.28More_Recent.29_Purim) don't see a direct connection between Purim, which celebrates The Intervention of The Hidden Hand, and Joseph Stalin's stroke on Purim 5713/1953, Stalin's death 4 days later passes the trivia test
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jfdwolff/Editorial_policies#The_trivia_test of "this event made a lasting impact on the public." ([User:4.236.177.224] 16:13, 3 January 2008)
Somewhere there is a Commentary that we do not know how evil were the plans of a particular Biblical evil person, but he knew and we therefore must be Thankful for being saved.
Two passages in the section on "The Purim story" seem inconsistent. I hope someone more knowledgeable can explain it a little better for the benefit of readers like me who are confused.
The article states:
Having found out that Mordechai is Jewish, Haman plans to kill not just Mordechai but the entire Jewish minority in the empire. He obtains Ahasuerus' permission, against payment of ten thousand talents of silver, to execute this plan....
That evening, Ahasuerus and Haman attend Esther's second banquet, at which she reveals that she is Jewish and that Haman is planning to exterminate her people. Ahasuerus orders Haman hanged....
The second passage gives the impression that Esther revealed to Ahasuerus that Haman planned to kill the Jews, but the first passage says that Haman had already obtained Ahasuerus's permission for the plan. If all that was revealed at the banquet was that Esther was Jewish, then perhaps the second passage should read, "...at which she reveals that she is Jewish and that it is her people that Haman is planning to exterminate." Is that what's meant? JamesMLane t c 05:20, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
in Boisterousness in the synagogue there is a passage:
that doesn't make much sense -- IIRC I've never met word grzégarz in my whole 24year life in Poland. It even looks awkward. Only thing that looks a little bit similar is masculine name pl:Grzegorz or Gregory in english. Can author fix this please? 217.76.116.141 ( talk) 12:51, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I've removed the bit about this as modern scholarship has pretty much refuted the idea that Hecataeus of Abdera wrote this, eg [6]. dougweller ( talk) 17:22, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
In spite of attempts by some editors here to downplay the political significance of Purim, I feel that comments on relevant political matters are appropriate within the scope of the article. For instance, various Palestinians officials claim that Purim is the true cause of annual military attacks on the Arab territories. [7] There are also conspiracy theories that focus on blood mixed with Purim Pastries. [8] And too, noted anti-semite Julius Streicher claimed that the hangings that followed the Nuremburg Trials were a consequence of Purim in 1946. [9] An interesting book on the topic is Reckless Rites by Elliott Horowitz. [10] ADM ( talk) 08:04, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
What exactly is meant by the "story of Purim?" If by that we mean a summary of the Book of Esther then the part about Vashti being ordered to dance naked should be removed. That's not in Esther 1:11. Carneadiiz ( talk) 06:17, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
There is no mention of Purim's relation to the Persian holiday Nowrooz in this article however a mention does exist in the Nowrooz article, I believe this should be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.118.33.51 ( talk) 23:28, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
Is there a more serious picture and caption to represent purim? the current photo comes with no caption and doesn't seem right. Perhaps it could be moved down to the body of the article? Wikifan12345 ( talk) 06:26, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Several inaccuracies: The three-day Purim in Jerusalem is called Purim Meshulash, not Purim Hameshulash. It never occurs after a two year interval. The minimum interval is three years (1974 to 1977; 2005 to 2008). The maximum interval is twenty years, not 13 years (1954 to 1974; and this interval will occur again 2025 to 2045). Other possible intervals are four years (1977 to 1981; 2001 to 2005). Seven years (1994 to 2001). Thirteen years (1981 to 1994; 2008 to 2021). Kepipesiom ( talk) 15:01, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
There having been no disagreement or further discussion I am going to edit the page to reflect the above comments. Kepipesiom ( talk) 04:16, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
The Hebrew word the, when part of a word, is anglized as Ha.... Hence, "The Triple Purim" is grammatically written Purim HaMeShuLash, with without the UpLo, Purim HaMeshulash. source: Aish.com, which says, Quote: "(Although grammatically it is Purim hameshulash, people usually call it 'Purim Meshulash.') This certainly merits being in the article, even if just as a RefNote. Pi314m ( talk) 06:40, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Dalai lama ding dong ( talk · contribs) seems to be opposed to including the anecdote that Julius Streicher exclaimed "Purim Fest 1946!" when hanged together with nine other prominent Nazi convicts of the Nuremberg Trials. This is well known and often repeated, and the fact that he said this is not disputed (it was reported in the New York Herald Tribune on 16 October 1946). There are numerous sources that could be cited, and even skeptical sources do not doubt it. [13] JFW | T@lk 11:44, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
This is the unsourced section called "Rabbinic interpretations". It contains the central points of widely repeated inspirational thought related to Purim. I cannot source it currently, and it seems to have been written with a religious audience in mind:
“ | Traditional Jews believe that God is hidden behind all the events of the Megillah. Rabbis referred to God's role as hester panim, or "hiding of the Face", which is also said to be hinted at in a word play (Megillat Hester) regarding the Hebrew name for the Book of Esther, Megillat Esther—literally, "revelation of [that which is] hidden"). Although Jews believe that everything turned out for the best as a direct result of Divine intervention (that is, a series of miracles), the Book of Esther lacks any mention of God's name, and the events described in it appear to have been nothing more than a result of natural occurrences. On the other hand, Jewish philosophers and scriptural commentators believe that God's name is omitted to emphasize the very point that God remained hidden throughout the story, but was nonetheless present and played a large role in its outcome. Furthermore, this lesson can be applied on a much larger scale: Throughout Jewish history, and especially in the present Jewish diaspora, God's presence has been felt more at certain times than at others. Megillat Esther (and the omission of God's name in it) serves to show that although God may not be conspicuously present at times, He nevertheless plays (and has played) an important role in everyone's lives and in the future of the Jewish nation. In remembrance of how God remained hidden throughout the Purim miracle, Jews dress up on Purim and many hide their faces. | ” |
It can be returned in a rephrased form with high-quality secondary sources. JFW | T@lk 11:53, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
I have restructured the article to distinguish between "Observances" (mandated either by Biblical or rabbinical commandment or [if later] codified in the Shulchan Aruch), and "Customs" (which are not kept by everyone). Now because only the city of Jerusalem now keeps Purim Shushan, and "Purim Meshulash" only occurs in Jerusalem, I have grouped all these sections under "In Jerusalem".
I am at a bit of a loss about what to do with "Purim and the Nazis". This seems relevant, but I cannot believe that there have not been other historical occurrences that should be mentioned in this context. If that is the case, perhaps the title should be changed.
As with regards to sourcing, a lot of the current content is referenced to primary sources (especially the Talmud quotes), and it would be good if we backed these up with secondary sources also. JFW | T@lk 12:06, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
The way Iranians pronounce it is closer to "Ahasuerus" than "Xerxes". The Article makes it seem as if Xerxes is the proper name and Ahasuerus might be him; but there is not Aryan king ever named "Xerxes" phonetically in Parsi. Just like Iranian almost never called themselves Persian in their own language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.41.108.172 ( talk) 07:16, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Purim is not about senseless killing of some fictitious tyrannical Iranian kingdom. That is utterly racist. I have seen bizarre spin on Wikipedia that have the undertones of Anti-Iranian sentiment. It is story whereby Iranians assisted Jews from a conspiracy to destroy them; and in this process the attackers who were given false orders by way of corruption where defeated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.41.108.172 ( talk) 07:24, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Just as in the Halloween costume's wikipedia page, there should be a section about this. People need to explain why they are removing it. BenjaminHold ( talk) 20:24, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
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This article, in at least a couple of places, indicates that the king is Artaxerxes I. This is in conflict with the Wikipedia article "Book of Esther," which claims that "Ahasuerus is usually identified in modern sources as Xerxes I, who ruled between 486 and 465 BCE," allowing for the possibility that it could also be "either Artaxerxes I (reigned 465 to 424 BCE) or Artaxerxes II (reigned 404 to 358 BCE)." Someone should reconcile these two articles. (I don't feel qualified to do so, having no knowledge beyond what's in the articles themselves.) 2604:2000:EFC0:2:28C9:9497:C68B:2C0B ( talk) 05:32, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
It is a travesty that the only mention of the real background to this story has to be a quote by Hitler. After their delivery from Babylon, Cyrus permitted the Jews to return to Jerusalem and it's environs and rebuild their temple. They were still part of the empire and a garrison was posted to defend the empire AND to defend those Jews against their mortal enemies, the idol worshipping Semites of Mesopotamia, who viewed them as deniers of their gods. This garrison was slaughtered and the news prompted the king to order the destruction of the ungrateful tribe. It's quite natural that a version of this perfidy offered by it's perpetrators whitewashes the events. However Purim is the celebration of the massacre of Persian soldiers and getting away with it. SBader ( talk) 17:39, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Please stop these foolish, intellectually dishonest "CE/BCE" euphemisms and return to AD/BC nomenclature: It's obvious that "CE/BCE" uses Dionysius's dating from the time of Christ. If you want to reject this dating system, then actually do so by picking a different dating point. To use CE/BCE, i.e. to date from the time of Christ yet refuse to mention Him, is dishonest, and dishonesty has no place in any serious encyclopedia. Not only is this "Common Era"/"Before Common Era" nomenclature dishonest, it is obviously false (at least without eschatological reference to the Incarnation): The world did not share a 'common era' until the world-wide web. Thus, the CE/BCE nomenclature degrades the quality of Wikipedia through its foolishness, dishonesty, falseness, and absurdity. Please stop using it. -- Newagelink ( talk) 01:56, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
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the Phrase, the editors used original research, such as Berossus and Josephus and Josippon which is absolutely Primary source and can't be used in historical assays. for more information, see Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (history) -- Dandamayev ( talk) 08:21, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
Does that story about the Lubavitcher Rebbe really belong here? Ifyes, dies every similar story merit a place here? If we are going to put in every Purim mofes story from every Rebbe, this will become the longest page on Wikipedia. High Leader ( talk) 04:48, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
The translation given here is Hamen’s Pockets, but over at the linked page for hamentashen the translation given is Haman's Ears. Someone knowledgeable needs to resolve this (or maybe not provide a translation and leave it up to the hamentashen page to provide the possible translations). 73.60.152.125 ( talk) 12:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
The article currently reads
Purim is the plural of Hebrew pur,[dubious – discuss] meaning casting lots in the sense of making a random selection.
And cites an English dictionary to this effect, that I suspect is not WP:Reliable source in this case.
I'm pretty sure that "pur" is actually a Farsi Akkadian word, the Hebrew is "goral". Because the word "pur" is unfamiliar, it is defined as such goral - lot, in the Hebrew text. The word "goral" is used everywhere else in Tanak, at least among the dozens of occurences I've encountered (psalm 16, deuteronomy, Joshua, etc.) never seen "pur" or "purim" outside of megillat Esther. I'm only 80% sure on this, so I will refrain from
WP:Boldly changing it.
Jaredscribe (
talk)
21:48, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
The information we give in the article is inconsistent. If there are indeed several pronunciations in use, this could (should?) be mentioned.
-- 176.12.227.62 ( talk) 13:00, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
Noori Sadat Shahangian is a professor of al-zahra university in judaism and she is published her issue in Encyclopædia of Iran (Daneshnameye iran), which is edited by Kazem Mousavi-Bojnourdi and published by Center for the Great Islamic Encyclopedia. what's the matter ? Jentilir ( talk) 15:39, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
I'm fine with midrash about the Purim narrative being included, but I think it should be identified as such. What most Jews think you're referring to when you say "the Purim story" is the story as told in Megillat Esther. The existing text of the article does mention some midrashic interpretation, with the note "One rabbinical tradition interprets this...". There's no reason not to mention the tzaraath interpretation, or the Haman's-daughter sidebar, if you want, but they should be highlighted in the same way as midrashic interpretation, not integrated as inherently part of the narrative. AJD ( talk) 21:32, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
I've moved this material to the Talk page for discussion. It appears to be about the Book of Esther, not the holiday of Purim, and therefore belongs in the former article and not the latter. As far as I can tell, the sources themselves do not discuss the holiday of Purim.
All of the books of the Old Testament, except the book of Esther, were discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls by Archaeologists in 20th century. [1]
Amnon Netzer and Shaul Shaked argue that the names "Mordecai" and "Esther" are similar to those of the Babylonian gods Marduk and Ishtar. [2] [3] Scholars W.S. McCullough, Muhammad Dandamayev and Shaul Shaked say that the Book of Esther is historical fiction. [3] [4] [5] Amélie Kuhrt says the Book of Esther was composed in the Hellenistic period and it shows a perspective of Persian court identical to classical Greek books. [6] Shaul Shaked says the date of composition of the book is unknown, but most likely not much after the fall of the Achaemenid kingdom, during the Parthian period, perhaps in the 3rd or 2nd century BCE. [3] McCullough also suggests that Herodotus recorded the name of Xerxes's queen as Amestris (the daughter of Otanes) and not as Esther. [5] Scholars Albert I. Baumgarten and S. David Sperling and R.J. Littman say that, according to Herodotus, Xerxes could only marry a daughter of one of the six allies of his father Darius I. [7] [8]
References