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The following off-site maps show the various claims of the original Thirteen Colonies: [1], [2], [3], and [4]. If this information could be included in a map of this province's claims, it would be great. (This request was originally made by jengod, and I moved it here.) – Quadell ( talk) ( bounties) 16:06, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
shouldn't the Province of New York be called New York Colony or should there just be 2 separate articles? Most of the other locales such as Virginia and Maryland are referred to as colonies. For consistency's sake, this should be renamed New York Colony as Virginia is named Virginia Colony and Maryland is named Maryland Colony. Stevenmitchell 03:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thanks for the work .....but the map is very confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.55.13.207 ( talk) 16:57, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
I am adding sourced material that shows that there was a division among protesters between the largely middle and upper class Sons of Liberty, who favored peaceful protest (such as constructing Liberty Poles), and the street mobs that frequently were out of control of the Sons n the early protests. This is a theme made clear in the main article on the Stamp Act 1765 and was true throughout much of the decade leading up to the war.
I removed the following unsourced paragraph since it is in conflict with the sourced material that indicates the Sons were not leaders of the street violence:
“The three most prominent leaders of the mob were Isaac Sears, John Lamb, and Alexander McDougall. There is circumstantial evidence that the DeLancey's were the secret men organizing the riots. The majority of the lower and middle classes were attached to DeLancey's political party. This group was variously described at the "Sons of Neptune", "Vox Poluli", and the "Free Sons of New York". Later, this group was organized and named the New York Sons of Liberty (also known as the Liberty Boys).”
In a couple of other points I moved text and added dates to put it in chronological order. I also flagged for citation an apparently POV statement -- it should either be deleted or attributed as opinion to a reliable source. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 14:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I had replaced unsourced material with sourced material that was contradictory and explained my reasons in the above section. BradMajor deleted a large chunk of this and replaced it with the previously removed material. He has added a source, but the source fails to provide a page number. I would suggest he provide a page number and a quote (the material he deleted was a direct quote). If this is a case where reliable sources differ, then the article can be written to include both.
Despite my efforts to explain exactly what I was doing, my material was deleted with no effort to discuss. I hope this isn't repeated. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 21:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I have the Ketchum book that BradMajors referenced (w/o page numbers), but haven’t read it. However I have tried to track his claims down -- it appears that he is misinterpreting the work. It appears that Ketchum is largely in agreement with Nash and Anderson. Examples:
BradMajors -- “ The three most prominent leaders of the mob were Isaac Sears, John Lamb, and Alexander McDougall.”
Ketchum -- On page 137 Ketchum refers to the October 31 meeting of 200 merchants at Burns Coffee House (referred to as Burns Tavern in the article). The meeting was attended by Lamb and Sears who were identified as member of the Sons of Liberty. The meeting established a boycott and proposed setting up committees of correspondence -- it proposed no street action.
Rather than Lamb and Sears leading the mob, Ketchum writes of the crowd outside, made up of “sailors and young men from the docks”, that they “were disappointed to learn that the meeting had been a serious, peaceable one.” It was this mob that started vandalism that night that led to the full riot the next day -- it is clear they WERE NOT acting at the direction of Sears and Lamb.
With respect to McDougall, on page 144 Kechum writes that McDougall probably acted as a peacemaker after the November 1 riots-- he was part of a group that went around to ship captains trying to get them to control the sailors.
BradMajors -- “There is circumstantial evidence that the DeLancey's were the secret men organizing the riots.”
Ketchum -- I can’t find where Ketchum says that. On page 142 what he does say is that he violence of November 1 did not repeat itself and suggested that “someone behind the scenes was manipulating the strings” and “making certain that the situation never got out of control.” At this time James DeLancey Jr. announced that he was a member of the Sons of Liberty. As Anderson noted in my recent addition to the article shows, the Sons did not initiate the rioting but were instrumental afterwards in controlling the mob.
BradMajors -- “The majority of the lower and middle classes were attached to DeLancey's political party. This group was variously described at the "Sons of Neptune", "Vox Poluli", and the "Free Sons of New York". Later, this group was organized and named the New York Sons of Liberty (also known as the Liberty Boys).”
Ketchum -- On page 129 he writes that “the most vocal opponents of the act were the young merchants and members of the middle class” and “they began calling themselves sons of liberty.” There is no mention of a lower class contingent of the Sons of Liberty until much later. This is consistent with the quote from Nash deleted by BradMajors. As stated above, DeLancey was not even identified with the Sons of liberty until after November 1. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 00:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I have explained why I made additions to the article -- all of these additions were sourced and the material removed was unsourced.
An editor came back and gave a vague reference (a book -- no page numbers). I provided actual quotes and page numbers from the book that shows the references do not support the material that was removed. The editor in question has not contested the acuracy of my information, nor has he substantiated his claims -- in act he appears to be ignoring this discussion. With no actual discussion even being attempted, the dispute tag placed appears to be frivolous and I will remove it. If the editor in question, or anyobe else, wants to actually explain what in the fully sourced material is actally in dispute, then it may be appropriae to reinstate the tag. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 18:05, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Currenlty, the article only really deals with a single demographic, not plural demographics. More is needed, particularly beyond race, such as: occupations, population density, etc. The Economics secition is rather lacking as well, and in dire need of informaiton on exports, imports, manufactured goods, as well as some of the demographic information such as professions. Shoreranger ( talk) 16:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Changed Delcaration of Independence to Declaration of Independence under Provincial Congress header. psycherhexic ( talk) 20:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm going to remove a line because of inclusion of Nathan Pedowitz in:
The Province of New York was created by Nathan Pedowitz
Similar seen in article on Ancient Egyptian Medicine -- ironcorona ( talk) 10:33, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
They were chased out, of much of it, but not all of it. The Province continued to exist until evacuation day. Ericl ( talk) 19:57, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
The list of the original 12 counties is interesting, but those of us without much knowledge of NY state's geography would definitely benefit from a map of the original 12 counties. — OwenBlacker ( Talk) 11:55, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
why isn't new york state, new yorkshire? https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/33czy2/why_isnt_new_york_state_new_yorkshire/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.81.170 ( talk) 00:48, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
The word "province" was never part of the official name of any of the thirteen British colonies that later formed the United States, yet nine of the titles of the thirteen articles on those colonies include "province". All nine articles should be moved and retitled. WCCasey ( talk) 19:45, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
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I noticed that the economy section was a bit unprofessional and lacking depth. I'm not qualified to update it, but can someone tidy it up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Medajor ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
In addition to only stating the total populations and the percentage of blacks but not things like women and children, I'm relatively sure the populations are wrong. I've been looking and I can't find a single source to support any of them. ECPBlue ( talk) 13:53, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Not sure if this is the right place for this, but in the "Succeeded by" section of the infobox, the flag of New Jersey is shown instead of the flag of New York. I'd go and fix it, but I don't quite know how... AlexChillOut ( talk) 02:55, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that a map or maps be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Wikipedians in United States may be able to help! |
The following off-site maps show the various claims of the original Thirteen Colonies: [1], [2], [3], and [4]. If this information could be included in a map of this province's claims, it would be great. (This request was originally made by jengod, and I moved it here.) – Quadell ( talk) ( bounties) 16:06, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
shouldn't the Province of New York be called New York Colony or should there just be 2 separate articles? Most of the other locales such as Virginia and Maryland are referred to as colonies. For consistency's sake, this should be renamed New York Colony as Virginia is named Virginia Colony and Maryland is named Maryland Colony. Stevenmitchell 03:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thanks for the work .....but the map is very confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.55.13.207 ( talk) 16:57, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
I am adding sourced material that shows that there was a division among protesters between the largely middle and upper class Sons of Liberty, who favored peaceful protest (such as constructing Liberty Poles), and the street mobs that frequently were out of control of the Sons n the early protests. This is a theme made clear in the main article on the Stamp Act 1765 and was true throughout much of the decade leading up to the war.
I removed the following unsourced paragraph since it is in conflict with the sourced material that indicates the Sons were not leaders of the street violence:
“The three most prominent leaders of the mob were Isaac Sears, John Lamb, and Alexander McDougall. There is circumstantial evidence that the DeLancey's were the secret men organizing the riots. The majority of the lower and middle classes were attached to DeLancey's political party. This group was variously described at the "Sons of Neptune", "Vox Poluli", and the "Free Sons of New York". Later, this group was organized and named the New York Sons of Liberty (also known as the Liberty Boys).”
In a couple of other points I moved text and added dates to put it in chronological order. I also flagged for citation an apparently POV statement -- it should either be deleted or attributed as opinion to a reliable source. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 14:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I had replaced unsourced material with sourced material that was contradictory and explained my reasons in the above section. BradMajor deleted a large chunk of this and replaced it with the previously removed material. He has added a source, but the source fails to provide a page number. I would suggest he provide a page number and a quote (the material he deleted was a direct quote). If this is a case where reliable sources differ, then the article can be written to include both.
Despite my efforts to explain exactly what I was doing, my material was deleted with no effort to discuss. I hope this isn't repeated. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 21:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I have the Ketchum book that BradMajors referenced (w/o page numbers), but haven’t read it. However I have tried to track his claims down -- it appears that he is misinterpreting the work. It appears that Ketchum is largely in agreement with Nash and Anderson. Examples:
BradMajors -- “ The three most prominent leaders of the mob were Isaac Sears, John Lamb, and Alexander McDougall.”
Ketchum -- On page 137 Ketchum refers to the October 31 meeting of 200 merchants at Burns Coffee House (referred to as Burns Tavern in the article). The meeting was attended by Lamb and Sears who were identified as member of the Sons of Liberty. The meeting established a boycott and proposed setting up committees of correspondence -- it proposed no street action.
Rather than Lamb and Sears leading the mob, Ketchum writes of the crowd outside, made up of “sailors and young men from the docks”, that they “were disappointed to learn that the meeting had been a serious, peaceable one.” It was this mob that started vandalism that night that led to the full riot the next day -- it is clear they WERE NOT acting at the direction of Sears and Lamb.
With respect to McDougall, on page 144 Kechum writes that McDougall probably acted as a peacemaker after the November 1 riots-- he was part of a group that went around to ship captains trying to get them to control the sailors.
BradMajors -- “There is circumstantial evidence that the DeLancey's were the secret men organizing the riots.”
Ketchum -- I can’t find where Ketchum says that. On page 142 what he does say is that he violence of November 1 did not repeat itself and suggested that “someone behind the scenes was manipulating the strings” and “making certain that the situation never got out of control.” At this time James DeLancey Jr. announced that he was a member of the Sons of Liberty. As Anderson noted in my recent addition to the article shows, the Sons did not initiate the rioting but were instrumental afterwards in controlling the mob.
BradMajors -- “The majority of the lower and middle classes were attached to DeLancey's political party. This group was variously described at the "Sons of Neptune", "Vox Poluli", and the "Free Sons of New York". Later, this group was organized and named the New York Sons of Liberty (also known as the Liberty Boys).”
Ketchum -- On page 129 he writes that “the most vocal opponents of the act were the young merchants and members of the middle class” and “they began calling themselves sons of liberty.” There is no mention of a lower class contingent of the Sons of Liberty until much later. This is consistent with the quote from Nash deleted by BradMajors. As stated above, DeLancey was not even identified with the Sons of liberty until after November 1. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 00:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I have explained why I made additions to the article -- all of these additions were sourced and the material removed was unsourced.
An editor came back and gave a vague reference (a book -- no page numbers). I provided actual quotes and page numbers from the book that shows the references do not support the material that was removed. The editor in question has not contested the acuracy of my information, nor has he substantiated his claims -- in act he appears to be ignoring this discussion. With no actual discussion even being attempted, the dispute tag placed appears to be frivolous and I will remove it. If the editor in question, or anyobe else, wants to actually explain what in the fully sourced material is actally in dispute, then it may be appropriae to reinstate the tag. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 18:05, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Currenlty, the article only really deals with a single demographic, not plural demographics. More is needed, particularly beyond race, such as: occupations, population density, etc. The Economics secition is rather lacking as well, and in dire need of informaiton on exports, imports, manufactured goods, as well as some of the demographic information such as professions. Shoreranger ( talk) 16:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Changed Delcaration of Independence to Declaration of Independence under Provincial Congress header. psycherhexic ( talk) 20:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm going to remove a line because of inclusion of Nathan Pedowitz in:
The Province of New York was created by Nathan Pedowitz
Similar seen in article on Ancient Egyptian Medicine -- ironcorona ( talk) 10:33, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
They were chased out, of much of it, but not all of it. The Province continued to exist until evacuation day. Ericl ( talk) 19:57, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
The list of the original 12 counties is interesting, but those of us without much knowledge of NY state's geography would definitely benefit from a map of the original 12 counties. — OwenBlacker ( Talk) 11:55, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
why isn't new york state, new yorkshire? https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/33czy2/why_isnt_new_york_state_new_yorkshire/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.81.170 ( talk) 00:48, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
The word "province" was never part of the official name of any of the thirteen British colonies that later formed the United States, yet nine of the titles of the thirteen articles on those colonies include "province". All nine articles should be moved and retitled. WCCasey ( talk) 19:45, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Province of New York. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:51, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
I noticed that the economy section was a bit unprofessional and lacking depth. I'm not qualified to update it, but can someone tidy it up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Medajor ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
In addition to only stating the total populations and the percentage of blacks but not things like women and children, I'm relatively sure the populations are wrong. I've been looking and I can't find a single source to support any of them. ECPBlue ( talk) 13:53, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Not sure if this is the right place for this, but in the "Succeeded by" section of the infobox, the flag of New Jersey is shown instead of the flag of New York. I'd go and fix it, but I don't quite know how... AlexChillOut ( talk) 02:55, 15 March 2022 (UTC)