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How does a Japanese prefecture differ from a French prefecture ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.193.125.87 ( talk) 10:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
"However, some people still call Tokyo-to "Tokyo Prefecture" in English." --- Where do people say "Tokyo Prefecture"? As a matter of personal experience, I've lived in Tokyo 20+ years working with fellow English teachers (from various English-speaking countries) and I have yet to hear "Tokyo Prefecture" used even accidentally. Nor do English-speaking residents of Tokyo say "Tokyo-to" unless they are speaking in Japanese. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
122.135.170.51 (
talk) 14:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
There is a high level of ambiguty in the links listed on this page. Most Japanese prefectures share the same name as their capital and should be clearly seperated.
I'm creating stub pages for the entries here using <prefecture name> plus the word prefecture appended to it e.g. Osaka prefecture.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
synthetik 05:03 Feb 6, 2003 (UTC)
The following was moved from User talk:Timwi
begin
==Japanese prefecture capitalization==
Hello. You decapitalized Japanese prefectures but I think we reached consensus in favor of capitalization somewhere (someone's user talk?). -- Nanshu 03:59, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I concur. "Prefecture" should be capitalized. We don't say "Cook county" or "Florida state" or "Manitoba province" or "Mexico city." -- Sekicho 08:30, Mar 14, 2004 (UTC)
end
Mutter. I'm confused. It looks perfectly legible and smooth on my home computer (which runs on a 1600x1200 CRT) but on my 1024x768 LCD at work, the numbers are all blocky and illegible. How odd. Anyone else seeing it as barely legible? :/ -- Golbez 16:07, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
Not knowing much about the topic, I had the impression that prefecture translates the Japanese administrative unit 県 (of 都道府県; see also Prefecture#Japanese_sense_of_prefecture, which is linked to ja:県). As written, though, it appears that the pluralized term also includes other types of units (都道府). Following the first sentence, perhaps this article should be called Jurisdictions of Japan? A-giau 21:00, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
A-giau: This is similar to how Massachusetts, Pennsylvania etc. are "commonwealths," but for all practical purposes they're states of the United States. Likewise, Osaka, Kyoto, Hokkaido, and Tokyo are prefectures even though they aren't called ken in Japanese. (In fact, the English translation of fu is also "prefecture," so Hokkaido and Tokyo are the only prefectures that aren't legally called prefectures in English.) The difference between these jurisdictions and the other prefectures is so slight that it's not really reasonable to take them out of the list of prefectures. At any rate, Jurisdictions of Japan would have to include all the cities, towns, villages, districts, aza, wards, special wards, etc. etc. - Sekicho 22:38, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
In what sense is Shinjuku the capital of Tokyo? I can't find anything relevant in the Shinjuku article. -- Auximines 10:11, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
A survey is being conducted at Wikipedia_talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related_articles)#Prefectures and macrons to determine which prefectures should have their spelling "macron-ized", per the existing manual of style. Oita has been changed already, and each of the others is current being discussed (Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, Hokkaido, Hyogo, and Kochi). Please join the discussion if you wish. Neier 00:32, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
In the second graphic, 16 is 富山(Toyama). It is not 福山(Fukuyama). The kanji is incorrect in the graphic itself.
The article mentions the proposal but does not state if it became law or not. Funnyhat 23:43, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps I missed it, but what is the source for the list of regions? There's not really a problem with it, but, as was mentioned in the article, this is not an officially-used or recognized classification of prefectures. (In fact, I have heard or seen many slightly different lists of regions, and several of them overlap depending on who you're talking to, such as Kinki-Kansai-Chubu.) I'd be interested to know whether this is the most widely-used scheme, and how that was determined. Miemi 17:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Some anon IP removed the following sentence from the article: Today, Hokkaidō is the least populated of the four main Japanese islands. As far as I know, this is still true unless Shikoku somehow lost a lot of people. Anyone have any information on this? ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 06:52, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
From the article,
Usually, prefectures are called by their name only, without the suffix, except for Hokkaidō. However, the suffix is used when it is necessary to distinguish between the prefecture and a city of the same name. For example, Hiroshima-ken is the Japanese name of the prefecture, and Hiroshima-shi is its largest city.
General exposure to Japan and Japanese language reveals this not to be true. Prefectures are referred to by their name with the suffix at least as much if not more often making statement vacuous if not incorrect. Is there a particular reference that backs this up? Ian Lewis ( talk) 02:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
How is Shinjuku the capital of Tokyo? It's the location of the Tokyo Government but is there even an official capital of Tokyo? Is there a reference for this as well? Ian Lewis ( talk) 02:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
What are the requirements for the following subdivisions in population, area etc.? jlog3000 ( talk) 13:26, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
I think the confusion stems from the fact that, in Japanese, they don't use the word "capital" for prefectural capitals. They instead just use the term 県庁所在地, meaning "location of the Prefectural Office (capital building)." Whatever city the prefectural capital building happens to be in is the de facto capital of that prefecture. With Tokyo, the capital building is in Shinjuku, which is, itself, a separate municipality. Whether Japanese people would consider Shinjuku to be the "capital" of Tokyo in the sense that we native English speakers do would probably be cause for contention even among Japanese and whether or not such a distinction applies to the English version is a matter for debate. But it's food for thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.215.225.13 ( talk) 02:57, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
I was just wondering. How about a requirement for prefectures to become '-fu' if they have a designated city? jlog3000 ( talk) 13:31, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
The chart shows a lot of old numbers for municipalities and districts that are no longer accurate because of redistricting. I've made a small start but a lot more is needed. We should use the numbers from the prefecture page for agreement. Is there any way to make that update automatically? Jrhoadley ( talk) 14:14, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
The article needs to avoid Japanese language lessons. This is supposed to be about government, but winds up with way too much history and language lesson. Needs to be re-written to avoid this in non-Japanese language Wikipedias. Student7 ( talk) 19:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
The table of prefectures on the article has an "Island" column. Of course, this can never be accurate because Japan consists not only of four major islands but also of thousands of islands. Can we ignore the fact that Tokyo Metropolis has the southernmost island of Japan? So the first option is to delete the column. I do not think this will cause a big problem as we already have a "Region" column.
The current table assigns one of the four major islands to each prefecture. The exception is Okinawa Prefecture, which is totally outside the four major islands. I changed Ryūkyū Islands to Nansei Islands, but Student7 ( talk · contribs) reverted saying "Ryykyu seems more specific." [6] Actually, neither is accurate (and I am considering deleting the whole column). The Nansei Islands contains the whole prefecture but some portion of Kagoshima Prefecture also constitutes the Nansei Islands. The Ryūkyū Islands itself is a problematic concept (as I discussed at Talk:Ryukyu Islands). The English usage of Ryukyu Islands resides nowhere in the geographic hierarchy defined by standardization bodies. That is why I do no think the term "Ryukyu Islands" is inappropriate in an article for Japanese administrative matters. Also, the Ryukyu Islands (as in English) comprise the Amami Islands, part of Kagoshima Prefecture. If we treat the phrase "Ryukyu Islands" as an translation equivalent of the Japanese Ryūkyū Shotō, which seems to have been rejected by some Wikipedians at Talk:Ryukyu Islands, it then excludes the Daitō Islands of Okinawa Prefecture. The second option is to change Ryūkyū Islands to Nansei Islands again. -- Nanshu ( talk) 01:22, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Plausible changes which simplified the headings were mistakes here, here and here. The reasoning was not invalid -- for example, compare 2007 diff here. Over-simplification produces unintended consequences.
The different systems of parsing frame the ways in which Japanese prefectures are perceived. Perhaps the reverts of these 3 diffs need further discussion? -- Ansei ( talk) 13:54, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
|
|
|
For example, Tokyo is known worldwide as one of largest city in the world; but in this context,
What about alternative wording, such as
While we continue to discuss this, perhaps there will be no objection to changing the sequence of these sections to reflect the traditional Japanese ordering. In other words,
the term todofuken (都道府県) refers to suffixes which distinguish Japan's seven sub-national jurisdictions:
I guess that there is probably no cause for dispute in this traditional sequence? -- Ansei ( talk) 18:40, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
The useful information at {{ Japan Regions and Prefectures Labelled Map}} is the same as in the image in the upper right corner. Although the size is easier to read, the map overwhelmed list section of the article.
The image remains and the template has been removed, but this could be changed if we have consensus to do it. -- Ansei ( talk) 17:07, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
What powers do the prefectures enjoy? For example, may they raise and spend money independently of the central government? Grover cleveland ( talk) 22:03, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
In the Japanese ISO table, Okinawa is listed as a prefecture under the Kyushu region, and forms a separate region of its own in the next column (with no prefectures). Something doesn't compute! Ptilinopus ( talk) 07:40, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Hmm... I notice someone has modified the above table, to remove the Okinawa Region, retaining Okinawa-Ken under the Kyushu region. So far so good... but the text states there are nine regions - and this leaves only eight. Is Okinawa-Ken considered part of the Kyushu region? Or is it supposed to be a region? Are there only 8 regions after all? Ptilinopus ( talk) 06:41, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
Niigata is misspelled (as "Nigata") in the map. Jason Stormchild ( talk) 00:10, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
How does a Japanese prefecture differ from a French prefecture ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.193.125.87 ( talk) 10:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
"However, some people still call Tokyo-to "Tokyo Prefecture" in English." --- Where do people say "Tokyo Prefecture"? As a matter of personal experience, I've lived in Tokyo 20+ years working with fellow English teachers (from various English-speaking countries) and I have yet to hear "Tokyo Prefecture" used even accidentally. Nor do English-speaking residents of Tokyo say "Tokyo-to" unless they are speaking in Japanese. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
122.135.170.51 (
talk) 14:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
There is a high level of ambiguty in the links listed on this page. Most Japanese prefectures share the same name as their capital and should be clearly seperated.
I'm creating stub pages for the entries here using <prefecture name> plus the word prefecture appended to it e.g. Osaka prefecture.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
synthetik 05:03 Feb 6, 2003 (UTC)
The following was moved from User talk:Timwi
begin
==Japanese prefecture capitalization==
Hello. You decapitalized Japanese prefectures but I think we reached consensus in favor of capitalization somewhere (someone's user talk?). -- Nanshu 03:59, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I concur. "Prefecture" should be capitalized. We don't say "Cook county" or "Florida state" or "Manitoba province" or "Mexico city." -- Sekicho 08:30, Mar 14, 2004 (UTC)
end
Mutter. I'm confused. It looks perfectly legible and smooth on my home computer (which runs on a 1600x1200 CRT) but on my 1024x768 LCD at work, the numbers are all blocky and illegible. How odd. Anyone else seeing it as barely legible? :/ -- Golbez 16:07, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
Not knowing much about the topic, I had the impression that prefecture translates the Japanese administrative unit 県 (of 都道府県; see also Prefecture#Japanese_sense_of_prefecture, which is linked to ja:県). As written, though, it appears that the pluralized term also includes other types of units (都道府). Following the first sentence, perhaps this article should be called Jurisdictions of Japan? A-giau 21:00, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
A-giau: This is similar to how Massachusetts, Pennsylvania etc. are "commonwealths," but for all practical purposes they're states of the United States. Likewise, Osaka, Kyoto, Hokkaido, and Tokyo are prefectures even though they aren't called ken in Japanese. (In fact, the English translation of fu is also "prefecture," so Hokkaido and Tokyo are the only prefectures that aren't legally called prefectures in English.) The difference between these jurisdictions and the other prefectures is so slight that it's not really reasonable to take them out of the list of prefectures. At any rate, Jurisdictions of Japan would have to include all the cities, towns, villages, districts, aza, wards, special wards, etc. etc. - Sekicho 22:38, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
In what sense is Shinjuku the capital of Tokyo? I can't find anything relevant in the Shinjuku article. -- Auximines 10:11, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
A survey is being conducted at Wikipedia_talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related_articles)#Prefectures and macrons to determine which prefectures should have their spelling "macron-ized", per the existing manual of style. Oita has been changed already, and each of the others is current being discussed (Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, Hokkaido, Hyogo, and Kochi). Please join the discussion if you wish. Neier 00:32, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
In the second graphic, 16 is 富山(Toyama). It is not 福山(Fukuyama). The kanji is incorrect in the graphic itself.
The article mentions the proposal but does not state if it became law or not. Funnyhat 23:43, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps I missed it, but what is the source for the list of regions? There's not really a problem with it, but, as was mentioned in the article, this is not an officially-used or recognized classification of prefectures. (In fact, I have heard or seen many slightly different lists of regions, and several of them overlap depending on who you're talking to, such as Kinki-Kansai-Chubu.) I'd be interested to know whether this is the most widely-used scheme, and how that was determined. Miemi 17:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Some anon IP removed the following sentence from the article: Today, Hokkaidō is the least populated of the four main Japanese islands. As far as I know, this is still true unless Shikoku somehow lost a lot of people. Anyone have any information on this? ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 06:52, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
From the article,
Usually, prefectures are called by their name only, without the suffix, except for Hokkaidō. However, the suffix is used when it is necessary to distinguish between the prefecture and a city of the same name. For example, Hiroshima-ken is the Japanese name of the prefecture, and Hiroshima-shi is its largest city.
General exposure to Japan and Japanese language reveals this not to be true. Prefectures are referred to by their name with the suffix at least as much if not more often making statement vacuous if not incorrect. Is there a particular reference that backs this up? Ian Lewis ( talk) 02:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
How is Shinjuku the capital of Tokyo? It's the location of the Tokyo Government but is there even an official capital of Tokyo? Is there a reference for this as well? Ian Lewis ( talk) 02:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
What are the requirements for the following subdivisions in population, area etc.? jlog3000 ( talk) 13:26, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
I think the confusion stems from the fact that, in Japanese, they don't use the word "capital" for prefectural capitals. They instead just use the term 県庁所在地, meaning "location of the Prefectural Office (capital building)." Whatever city the prefectural capital building happens to be in is the de facto capital of that prefecture. With Tokyo, the capital building is in Shinjuku, which is, itself, a separate municipality. Whether Japanese people would consider Shinjuku to be the "capital" of Tokyo in the sense that we native English speakers do would probably be cause for contention even among Japanese and whether or not such a distinction applies to the English version is a matter for debate. But it's food for thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.215.225.13 ( talk) 02:57, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
I was just wondering. How about a requirement for prefectures to become '-fu' if they have a designated city? jlog3000 ( talk) 13:31, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
The chart shows a lot of old numbers for municipalities and districts that are no longer accurate because of redistricting. I've made a small start but a lot more is needed. We should use the numbers from the prefecture page for agreement. Is there any way to make that update automatically? Jrhoadley ( talk) 14:14, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
The article needs to avoid Japanese language lessons. This is supposed to be about government, but winds up with way too much history and language lesson. Needs to be re-written to avoid this in non-Japanese language Wikipedias. Student7 ( talk) 19:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
The table of prefectures on the article has an "Island" column. Of course, this can never be accurate because Japan consists not only of four major islands but also of thousands of islands. Can we ignore the fact that Tokyo Metropolis has the southernmost island of Japan? So the first option is to delete the column. I do not think this will cause a big problem as we already have a "Region" column.
The current table assigns one of the four major islands to each prefecture. The exception is Okinawa Prefecture, which is totally outside the four major islands. I changed Ryūkyū Islands to Nansei Islands, but Student7 ( talk · contribs) reverted saying "Ryykyu seems more specific." [6] Actually, neither is accurate (and I am considering deleting the whole column). The Nansei Islands contains the whole prefecture but some portion of Kagoshima Prefecture also constitutes the Nansei Islands. The Ryūkyū Islands itself is a problematic concept (as I discussed at Talk:Ryukyu Islands). The English usage of Ryukyu Islands resides nowhere in the geographic hierarchy defined by standardization bodies. That is why I do no think the term "Ryukyu Islands" is inappropriate in an article for Japanese administrative matters. Also, the Ryukyu Islands (as in English) comprise the Amami Islands, part of Kagoshima Prefecture. If we treat the phrase "Ryukyu Islands" as an translation equivalent of the Japanese Ryūkyū Shotō, which seems to have been rejected by some Wikipedians at Talk:Ryukyu Islands, it then excludes the Daitō Islands of Okinawa Prefecture. The second option is to change Ryūkyū Islands to Nansei Islands again. -- Nanshu ( talk) 01:22, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Plausible changes which simplified the headings were mistakes here, here and here. The reasoning was not invalid -- for example, compare 2007 diff here. Over-simplification produces unintended consequences.
The different systems of parsing frame the ways in which Japanese prefectures are perceived. Perhaps the reverts of these 3 diffs need further discussion? -- Ansei ( talk) 13:54, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
|
|
|
For example, Tokyo is known worldwide as one of largest city in the world; but in this context,
What about alternative wording, such as
While we continue to discuss this, perhaps there will be no objection to changing the sequence of these sections to reflect the traditional Japanese ordering. In other words,
the term todofuken (都道府県) refers to suffixes which distinguish Japan's seven sub-national jurisdictions:
I guess that there is probably no cause for dispute in this traditional sequence? -- Ansei ( talk) 18:40, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
The useful information at {{ Japan Regions and Prefectures Labelled Map}} is the same as in the image in the upper right corner. Although the size is easier to read, the map overwhelmed list section of the article.
The image remains and the template has been removed, but this could be changed if we have consensus to do it. -- Ansei ( talk) 17:07, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
What powers do the prefectures enjoy? For example, may they raise and spend money independently of the central government? Grover cleveland ( talk) 22:03, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
In the Japanese ISO table, Okinawa is listed as a prefecture under the Kyushu region, and forms a separate region of its own in the next column (with no prefectures). Something doesn't compute! Ptilinopus ( talk) 07:40, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Hmm... I notice someone has modified the above table, to remove the Okinawa Region, retaining Okinawa-Ken under the Kyushu region. So far so good... but the text states there are nine regions - and this leaves only eight. Is Okinawa-Ken considered part of the Kyushu region? Or is it supposed to be a region? Are there only 8 regions after all? Ptilinopus ( talk) 06:41, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
Niigata is misspelled (as "Nigata") in the map. Jason Stormchild ( talk) 00:10, 9 August 2022 (UTC)