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Hi...regarding my addition of the citations showing that Popular Will is regarded as "left-leaning"...I will take this to arbitration if necessary. Chavistas want to represent their opponents as not being of the political left, and many of them are of the political left. The articles I am linking show not only that outsiders (including the Chicago Sun-Times, an obviously reputable source) regard Voluntad Popular as "left-leaning", but that Voluntad Popular has gotten a transgender woman elected to the Congress, which is not only pretty clearly something a left-wing party would do, but which is something which shows the PSUV taking a traditionalist social conservative position (PSUV candidates are notoriously hostile to homosexuals - they have in the past stigmatised their opponents as homosexuals to win votes). I do not accept that this edit is incorrect and I will fight on the matter. It is documented, and attempts to remove this only show the Chavista slant of those editors trying to revert the change. Zachary Klaas ( talk) 01:54, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello, 3rd person chipping in. I should add that most outside the party describe it as being rightist. The govt says "fascist". The first person obviously is a member. There should be a section on its leader and other members imprisoned on terrorism and explosives charges and fomenting violence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.106.134.44 ( talk) 15:10, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
The article should be called Voluntad Popular. Popular Will sounds like... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jjgonzalezp2006 ( talk • contribs) 23:19, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
Hi, I believe the way the political ideology of Popular Will is portrayed slightly inaccurate. It is listed as centre-left, progressive, and social democratic despite the fact the party pursues more centre-right policies. However, they do describe themselves as these things so perhaps we can say it's "self-described"? I'm pretty sure this is done in pages for other political parties who give themselves misleading labels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:183:4400:9C1:90F8:BC55:4BAB:B3D ( talk) 00:08, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
@
Asqueladd: Hi. My main reason for citing
WP:UNDUE was the following line: If a viewpoint is held by an extremely small minority, it does not belong on Wikipedia, regardless of whether it is true or you can prove it, except perhaps in some ancillary article.
This is because the current source claiming that Popular Will has been described as "far-right" is not tertiary, and furthermore, the government's point of view is already covered in the content (Popular Will has been variously described as right wing, even "fascist" by the government
). If the statement can be supported by tertiary sources and properly represented, it would solve this issue, but otherwise it should be removed due to the aforementioned reasons. --
NoonIcarus (
talk)
09:47, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
I think VP is difficult to see as left-of-center in Latin America. The left-wing and right-wing sides of Latin America have serious camp logic in diplomatic issues, and even Juan Guaidó, a major VP politician, sees it very negatively in major Latin American left-wing camps, including Brazil's Lula da Silva, but rather defends him in Latin American right-wing camp.-- Storm598 ( talk) 10:30, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
References previously included [1] and removed [2]:
At the start of the year, the 35-year-old leader of the center-left Popular Will party was a relative unknown in national politics.
A second key difference is that Guaidó, who belongs to the center-left Popular Will party, does not plan to become Venezuela's permanent president.
Guaido himself belongs to Voluntad Popular (VP – Popular Will), a center-left social democratic political party.
On January 5, the National Assembly elected Juan Guaido of the center-left Voluntad Popular (Popular Will) (VP) party as the body's new President.
After a stint at another break-away party, Lopez created Popular Will, a center-left movement.-- NoonIcarus ( talk) 03:13, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
The US-funded International Republican Institute (IRI) and the National Democratic Institute, or the description as a far-right party. -- NoonIcarus ( talk) 06:35, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Popular Will's political position has been variously described as centrist, center-right, right-wing and far-right by academic and media sources. Some media outlets and the party itself use a center-left description. Nicolás Maduro and government officials have called the party far-right and fascist.
Popular Will's political position has been variously described as centrist, center-left (a description that the party uses), center-right and right-wing by academic and media sources. Nicolás Maduro and government officials have called the party "far-right" and "fascist". Is this an acceptable phrasing? Kind regards, -- NoonIcarus ( talk) 20:18, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
Further academic sources provided:
Llama la atención que siendo Voluntad Popular el partido con mayor incidencia dentro de la muestra (...) cuando el partido mencionado con anterioridad es socialdemócrata, lo que implica que su corriente política por excelencia sea centro izquierda
@ NoonIcarus: With your history of tagging, can you provide an explanation for these tags? We have discussed this multiple times in the past how you drop tags with little explanation or recommendations (see: Talk:Operation Gideon (2020)/Archive 5#Tags?? and Talk:ZunZuneo#Drive by tagging). Can you provide some recommendations so we can avoid edit warring on content? WMrapids ( talk) 14:42, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
Tag bombing is the unjustified addition of numerous tags to pages or unjustified addition of one tag to multiple pages.¿. By my count, I have only tagged possibly a little over 12 articles in the span of four months, mostly adding only one or two in each, and each time I have provided an explanation in edit summaries or in the talk page, as well as tried to solve them when I've had the chance. That hardly qualifies either as "unjustified" or "numerous". Let's compare that with the tag where I first used the term ( [3]) and the difference should be clear.
Completed dissertations or theses written as part of the requirements for a doctorate, and which are publicly available (most via interlibrary loan or from Proquest), can be used but care should be exercised, as they are often, in part, primary sources. Some of them will have gone through a process of academic peer reviewing, of varying levels of rigor, but some will not.Both works that I have offered have dissertation advisors, as it happens with any completed thesis, and care should be taken with using scholar sources as primary references in any context.
WP:SCHOLARSHIP doesn't say anything about bachelor thesis not being notable or unreliable. You failed to mention the remainder of WP:SCHOLARSHIP:
So, anything below a doctoral thesis must be ofMasters dissertations and theses are considered reliable only if they can be shown to have had significant scholarly influence.
"significant scholarly influence"to be recognized as reliable and, unfortunately, bachelor theses are even lower than a Master's thesis.
I have demonstrated that academic sources also refer to VP as a "center-left" party. Which other sources that are not the bachelor theses?
The issues regarding the "fascist" and "extreme right" labels remain. Which ones specifically? You added one in yourself. Saying that only the government describes the party as far right would be inaccurate when we have the other sources.
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Popular Will article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hi...regarding my addition of the citations showing that Popular Will is regarded as "left-leaning"...I will take this to arbitration if necessary. Chavistas want to represent their opponents as not being of the political left, and many of them are of the political left. The articles I am linking show not only that outsiders (including the Chicago Sun-Times, an obviously reputable source) regard Voluntad Popular as "left-leaning", but that Voluntad Popular has gotten a transgender woman elected to the Congress, which is not only pretty clearly something a left-wing party would do, but which is something which shows the PSUV taking a traditionalist social conservative position (PSUV candidates are notoriously hostile to homosexuals - they have in the past stigmatised their opponents as homosexuals to win votes). I do not accept that this edit is incorrect and I will fight on the matter. It is documented, and attempts to remove this only show the Chavista slant of those editors trying to revert the change. Zachary Klaas ( talk) 01:54, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello, 3rd person chipping in. I should add that most outside the party describe it as being rightist. The govt says "fascist". The first person obviously is a member. There should be a section on its leader and other members imprisoned on terrorism and explosives charges and fomenting violence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.106.134.44 ( talk) 15:10, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
The article should be called Voluntad Popular. Popular Will sounds like... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jjgonzalezp2006 ( talk • contribs) 23:19, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
Hi, I believe the way the political ideology of Popular Will is portrayed slightly inaccurate. It is listed as centre-left, progressive, and social democratic despite the fact the party pursues more centre-right policies. However, they do describe themselves as these things so perhaps we can say it's "self-described"? I'm pretty sure this is done in pages for other political parties who give themselves misleading labels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:183:4400:9C1:90F8:BC55:4BAB:B3D ( talk) 00:08, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
@
Asqueladd: Hi. My main reason for citing
WP:UNDUE was the following line: If a viewpoint is held by an extremely small minority, it does not belong on Wikipedia, regardless of whether it is true or you can prove it, except perhaps in some ancillary article.
This is because the current source claiming that Popular Will has been described as "far-right" is not tertiary, and furthermore, the government's point of view is already covered in the content (Popular Will has been variously described as right wing, even "fascist" by the government
). If the statement can be supported by tertiary sources and properly represented, it would solve this issue, but otherwise it should be removed due to the aforementioned reasons. --
NoonIcarus (
talk)
09:47, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
I think VP is difficult to see as left-of-center in Latin America. The left-wing and right-wing sides of Latin America have serious camp logic in diplomatic issues, and even Juan Guaidó, a major VP politician, sees it very negatively in major Latin American left-wing camps, including Brazil's Lula da Silva, but rather defends him in Latin American right-wing camp.-- Storm598 ( talk) 10:30, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
References previously included [1] and removed [2]:
At the start of the year, the 35-year-old leader of the center-left Popular Will party was a relative unknown in national politics.
A second key difference is that Guaidó, who belongs to the center-left Popular Will party, does not plan to become Venezuela's permanent president.
Guaido himself belongs to Voluntad Popular (VP – Popular Will), a center-left social democratic political party.
On January 5, the National Assembly elected Juan Guaido of the center-left Voluntad Popular (Popular Will) (VP) party as the body's new President.
After a stint at another break-away party, Lopez created Popular Will, a center-left movement.-- NoonIcarus ( talk) 03:13, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
The US-funded International Republican Institute (IRI) and the National Democratic Institute, or the description as a far-right party. -- NoonIcarus ( talk) 06:35, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Popular Will's political position has been variously described as centrist, center-right, right-wing and far-right by academic and media sources. Some media outlets and the party itself use a center-left description. Nicolás Maduro and government officials have called the party far-right and fascist.
Popular Will's political position has been variously described as centrist, center-left (a description that the party uses), center-right and right-wing by academic and media sources. Nicolás Maduro and government officials have called the party "far-right" and "fascist". Is this an acceptable phrasing? Kind regards, -- NoonIcarus ( talk) 20:18, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
Further academic sources provided:
Llama la atención que siendo Voluntad Popular el partido con mayor incidencia dentro de la muestra (...) cuando el partido mencionado con anterioridad es socialdemócrata, lo que implica que su corriente política por excelencia sea centro izquierda
@ NoonIcarus: With your history of tagging, can you provide an explanation for these tags? We have discussed this multiple times in the past how you drop tags with little explanation or recommendations (see: Talk:Operation Gideon (2020)/Archive 5#Tags?? and Talk:ZunZuneo#Drive by tagging). Can you provide some recommendations so we can avoid edit warring on content? WMrapids ( talk) 14:42, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
Tag bombing is the unjustified addition of numerous tags to pages or unjustified addition of one tag to multiple pages.¿. By my count, I have only tagged possibly a little over 12 articles in the span of four months, mostly adding only one or two in each, and each time I have provided an explanation in edit summaries or in the talk page, as well as tried to solve them when I've had the chance. That hardly qualifies either as "unjustified" or "numerous". Let's compare that with the tag where I first used the term ( [3]) and the difference should be clear.
Completed dissertations or theses written as part of the requirements for a doctorate, and which are publicly available (most via interlibrary loan or from Proquest), can be used but care should be exercised, as they are often, in part, primary sources. Some of them will have gone through a process of academic peer reviewing, of varying levels of rigor, but some will not.Both works that I have offered have dissertation advisors, as it happens with any completed thesis, and care should be taken with using scholar sources as primary references in any context.
WP:SCHOLARSHIP doesn't say anything about bachelor thesis not being notable or unreliable. You failed to mention the remainder of WP:SCHOLARSHIP:
So, anything below a doctoral thesis must be ofMasters dissertations and theses are considered reliable only if they can be shown to have had significant scholarly influence.
"significant scholarly influence"to be recognized as reliable and, unfortunately, bachelor theses are even lower than a Master's thesis.
I have demonstrated that academic sources also refer to VP as a "center-left" party. Which other sources that are not the bachelor theses?
The issues regarding the "fascist" and "extreme right" labels remain. Which ones specifically? You added one in yourself. Saying that only the government describes the party as far right would be inaccurate when we have the other sources.