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Someone moved software piracy, pirate radio, Pittsburgh Pirates, and Tampa Bay Buccaneers from a dignified obscurity at the bottom of this article to the top. Giving top billing to these minor instances of piracy as a figure of speech is out-of-control disambiguation. What next, a disambiguation page like the even sillier Pine? Ortolan88
We're losing ground. What were reasonable cross references have now been purged because they weren't legitimate disambiguation. And we still have the foolish software piracy at the top, even though no one would ever confuse it with sea piracy. This is why I don't like disambiguation. It is mechanistic (and, it seems, militaristic as well). Up tight enforcement of imaginary policies.
First there were pirates, sea robbers as they are called in German. Then there were sports teams, one of them called the Pirates, probably because they stole some games from somebody, and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, so called because there used to be pirates in Tampa back in the day and they still make a big deal out of it, with pirate days and the like, and there was pirate radio, which started out at sea (get it?) on anti-aircraft platforms in the English channel, and then the rather milder and less adventurous software piracy, which is stealing other people;s work, though without violence. This was all fine when the article was about sea pirates and the others were cross-referenced at the bottom, now we have on the one hand lost information and on the other raised software piracy ("our kind of piracy") above broadcast piracy and the simple use of the pirate motif in sports. All because someone was frightened of having two links in the same article. As I was saying, very silly. Ortolan88
accuracy of this statement:
Peregrine981 18:46, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Resurrecting after User:213.106.17.103
on a sidenote: becoming a pirate was quick to accomplish for some germans in the 20th century. After unconditional surrender May 1945 the Allies declared all german military seamen pirates , who would not immediately fly the black flag instead of the Kriegsmarine flag. The black flag , however, was usually used by pirates only.
Even after reading the preceding comments, I have added the term piracy and its connection to software & copyright to the top again as part of the article. Here's why. The article for piracy is a redirect to this page. If someone is reading about software copyright infringement, for example, and clicks on piracy, they'd come here and see only the sea pirate info and a link to the disambig page. If they go to the disambig page, they could click on software piracy or copyright infringement and get back to an article that has a link to "piracy"... and now we're in a loop. The term "piracy" needs to be called out and defined somewhere--if you want to know what "piracy" is, it would be nice to click on a link and have it defined--which goes back to the origin of the word, which has to do with pirates--AND to have it explained in context, which you can't really do on a redirect page. Does this make sense? I hope that I have written it in such a way that it doesn't feel like a non sequitur. Elf | Talk 00:35, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)
This article states that buccaneer dervies from from boucan, Portugese slang for people of the Caribbean.
However the entry for buccaneer states that is is from the French word boucan, a frame used by the pirates to cure meat
Most sources on the web suggest that the term comes from the French boucanier (i.e. user of a boucan) including the American Heritage Dictionary entry found on dictonary.com and an Online Etymological Dictionary.
According to a French definition of Buccaneer in an etymology of English nautical terms, le mot français boucanier est sa racine. Boucaner signifiait faire griller la viande et la fumer pour la conserver ce que faisaient les pirates des Caraïbes pour conserver leurs vivres (Méthode supposée empruntée aux cannibales locaux !…) - "The French word boucanier is its root. Boucaner means to grill meat and to smoke it for preseervation, as the pirates of the Caribbean did to preserve their food. (The method was presumably borrowed from local cannibals!)"
A definition of bucaneiro on this Brazilian Portuguese page gives the French etymology.
I couldn't find any source for the Portuguese origin as stated here. If boucan is used in the sense of "people of the Caribbean" in Portuguese I imagine this will have stemmed from the French too.
So should this article use the French etymology?
Just to confuse things, One source suggests the name comes from a type of knife used by pirates called a boucan!
I favour removing the plot spoiler in the sentence about the Dread Pirate Roberts. -- Townmouse 01:32, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
To Peregrine981's statement: I was under the impression, at least from Euro history, that the money was just squandered...the largesse of the Kings of Spain consumed the gold of the New World That's accurate. Military expenditures were by far the largest expenditures of governments across Europe at that time.
Yes, it's true that Spain squandered and that military expenditures were, in general, the largest across Europe. However, to suggest that Spain's overexpansion bankrupted Spain is also not entirely inaccurate. Spain financed their very aggressive expansion policy, as well as their nobles' lavish lifestyle, by the American silver they conquered. This influx of silver drove up the price in Spain, fueling the need for more silver and thus further expansion. The cycle repeated until Spain can no longer secure enough silver to sustain their spending, finally ending in the government's bankrupcy.
I've added a bit more to the 'Arrr matey' section about steriotypical pirate clothing and expressions. I almost think this could have it's own page, just for a bit of fun. -- Swamp Ig 06:08, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
"Pirate attacks tripled between 1993 and 2003. The first half of 2003 was the worst 6-month period on record, with 234 pirate attacks, 16 deaths, and 52 people injured worldwide. There were also 193 crew members held hostage during this period." -- is there a source available for these statistics?
Apparently some guy changed the quotes, somebody might want to look into it.
Anon user added this; I cannot find any references in any search engine online so removed it. Can anyone corroborate, or is this another personal in-joke?
Elf | Talk 22:40, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
ARRRRRR.
Days of yore? isn't that a little imprecise? chris 00:32, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Because it is largely taken from the 'talk like a pirate' page, is factually inacurate, and, to the extent that it is acurate, is not 'pirate expressions', but general shipboard slang. Trollderella 17:21, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Aye Aye Captain: Sayings by the Seamen when taking an order from the Captain of the Ship.
A recent history channel program enlightened me, noting that pirates also had a positive impact on some of the societies they encountered. They sold tax-free products, (likely stolen products from a recently pillaged village) nonetheless, providing many poverty stricken communities with cheap food, and goods. In turn helping to relieve starvation, and possibly saving many lives. Is this worth mentioning? - R Lee E ( talk, contribs) 07:27, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
Rather than search for evidence that the "official website of pirates" was not the official website of pirates—a likely futile attempt to prove a negative—I searched for evidence that it was the official website of pirates, as such evidence would be necessary in order to sustain the inclusion of this link in the article. Conclusion: the registrant of the website is not a pirate, or at least is not described as such in any material accessible to Google. Corollary: the website is unlikely to be an official pirate website. To the proponent of this information: please demonstrate to the community that this is the official website of pirates, with verifiable information that is not self-referential. - EDM 01:16, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
(The personal information was removed due to the fact that the registrar is not the maker of the site and does not want to be associated with this site or its discussion. The registration information has been made private, check for yourself if you have any doubts.)
The thing is, Cap'n, that while your website looks like it will be plenty of fun and all that, it bears about the same relation to the subject of this encyclopedia article as Mickey Mouse does to mice. Riffs on a topic are not an encyclopedic source for information on the topic. - EDM
[To readers who may find the above hard to follow: Cap'n Nezit insists on chopping into comments I've left on this page and deleting portions of them. Doing so leaves the remnants incoherent, and misleadingly makes it seem as though I'd made a statement without support. The original text can be found here. - EDM 06:39, 13 October 2005 (UTC)]
Why is everything on our entry also here? http://www.answers.com/topic/pirate Should I be concerned or is there a legal link I'm not aware of?
The license Wikipedia uses grants free access to our content in the same sense as free software is licensed freely. This principle is known as copyleft. That is to say, Wikipedia content can be copied, modified, and redistributed so long as the new version grants the same freedoms to others and acknowledges the authors of the Wikipedia article used (a direct link back to the article satisfies our author credit requirement).
It might be a little obscure, but I added DOOM PIRATE to the list of fictional pirates. He is from a comic that a kid at my school makes. I also made made so that "Maddox" mentioned under the Jack Lumber entry in the fictional pirates section linked to the wikipedia Best Page In the Universe article. I'm going to ask him to make a page on Doom Pirate
Perhaps some reference to maddox and flying spaghetti monsterism, or perhaps even spongebob squarepants would help people assess the pop-culture meaning of the word 'Pirate'. Googling "Doom Pirate" also returns this page, so i deleted that reference 195.172.220.162 14:20, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
Pirates, as many people know, sailed under a black flag. What the general public doesn't know, however, is that many pirates were as Black as the flags they flew.
In my new novel Kingston by Starlight (Three Rivers Press/Crown Publishing) I tell a fictionalized version of the true story of Anne Bonny, a woman who dressed as a man in the early 1700s, became a pirate, and was put on trial for her alleged crimes in 1721.
In my novel I speculate about the ties she might have had to Africans in her family tree. I also weave into my story some true tales of pirates of African heritage.
Pirates were an important, integral part of the international scene during the late 17th and early 18th century. Anyone who took a sea voyage, anyone who sent cargo by boat, anyone who worked on board a floating vessel, had to worry about pirate attacks. Nations employed pirates to prey on the shipping of other nations. Pirates inspired numerous books and plays and songs. Pirates became symbols — not only of living outside the law, but of freedom, bought at a high cost and lived on one's own terms.
It became imperative, then, for the established powers of the European world to conceal the fact that many pirates were in fact people of color. It would have caused havoc if slaves knew that freedom was just offshore, riding the waves, flying a black flag.
Some of these Black pirates were, in part, mythic. The Fomorian pirates, some of the first people to make war on Ireland and to settle some of its lands, were of African descent — they are talked about in the myths and lore of Ireland.
But many other Black pirates were definitely flesh and blood. Kenneth J. Kinkor, a historian with the Whydah Project, which is examining the wreck of a pirate ship, has reported that perhaps 30 percent of the 5,000 or more pirates who were active between 1715 and 1725 were of African heritage.
Some of the most famous pirates in history were either Black or had a significant number of Blacks in their crews. Blackbeard was the most feared pirate of the early 18th century — and 60 of his 100 crewmen were Black. Laurens de Graff was considered the most successful pirate of the 17th century — and he was actually a runaway slave of African heritage. There are many more examples: Captain Kidd's quartermaster was Black, for example, and many pirate bases were located in North Africa.
Some historians have suggested that if there were Blacks on pirate crews, they may have been working as servants or slaves. But pirates tended to defy the traditions of their times, and there are enough examples of Black pirates actually leading pirate ships — like de Graff — to suggest that many Blacks successfully secured freedom, and positions of power and influence, on pirate vessels.
The Black community has often been told by society at large that it is wrong to glorify outlaws. Blues musicians were criticized in their day for flouting society's conventions. Hip-hop performers have been harassed for challenging cultural mores. And yet, in the larger community, renegades and rebels are often put on pedestals, from Robin Hood to Billy the Kid to Eminem.
White pirates, in books such as Treasure Island and movies such as Pirates of the Caribbean, are portrayed not as hateful criminals, but as lovable rogues, capable of cruelty, but also somehow admirable, even lovable. Digital pirates are hunted by corporations and prosecutors, but are embraced as heroes by youth culture. There is often something good to be found in people who are willing to fight the power.
In my novel Kingston by Starlight, I try to reclaim Black history. Pirates were often rogues, yes, but there is something in their willingness and ability to challenge the legal authorities of their time that is worth embracing, even celebrating.
In the 17th and 18th century, many people of African heritage were in bondage. Piracy represented a way out, and a way to challenge the very system that made slavery possible. In Kingston by Starlight, I tell stories of the early days of the Bahamas, and the last days of Port Royal, Jamaica. I write of pirate states in North Africa, and of pirate raids in South America. These are stories that aren't told in the history books in school. These are stories of blood and fire and emotion. This is outlaw history, but it is our history. And it is a history worth remembering.
Kingston by Starlight will be published in July. Frank McCourt, author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning book "Angela's Ashes," called it "superbly poetic," and Essence magazine picked it as one of the three best beach reads of the summer.
By Christopher John Farley, Special to the AmNews
Source: The Black faces beneath black flags, By: Farley, Christopher John, New York Amsterdam News, 00287121, 7/7/2005, Vol. 96, Issue 28
I'm not certain where to incorporate some of this information. Adraeus 01:43, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
-- Eno-Etile 08:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Modern piracy can also be for political reasons. For example, warlords in Somalia have sabotaged the delivery of UN food aid to over half a million hungry people in the region [2].
This may be true (if a bit POV) but it isn't really what the article says. This is the relevant portion of the article:
Piracy off Somalia threatens shipping and has sabotaged the delivery of food aid to more than half a million hungry people in the region, the United Nations said on Thursday. Hijackers have commandeered two vessels used by the U.N. World Food Programme this year and ship owners now demand armed escorts to travel in the waters, the agency said. This week, the London-based International Maritime Bureau said it knew of 27 pirate attacks off Somalia since March. The attacks have highlighted insecurity in Somalia, which has had no government to enforce law and order since warlords ousted dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991.
Piracy off the coast of Somalia is interfering with UN food deliveries, but is there a source confirming that the pirates are acting for political motives as opposed to simply the usual economic ones? - EDM 18:16, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
"Captain Pottengal Mukundan of the ICC's International Maritime Bureau (IMB) - whose organization manages the Piracy Reporting Centre - says the latest attacks raise a number of serious concerns.
'In addition to the obvious threat to human life and potential environmental damage, we are very concerned about politically motivated attacks against vessels.'" [3] I agree that the original quote doesn't directly support political piracy, but piracy can definitely happen for political reasons. Tkessler 21:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
The International Maritime Bureau (IMB) has recorded more than 30 attacks on cargo and passenger ships in Somalian waters recorded between Jan and September 2005.
I have first hand knowledge of piracy. The reason I moved modern piracy to the top is because I found it irritating (to say the least) to be searching for info on modern piracy and see all the silly, cartoon pirates. Imagine after being mugged searching for info and finding an article about street crime starting with Robin Hood. Check out William Langewiesche, The Outlaw Sea: A World of Freedom, Chaos, and Crime. As for as the romance angle the people being killed today, ( and probably in the past) are common sailors, many from developing countries. I think it better for someone looking for a picture of a cute pirate to have to go through the modern material first rather then vice-versa. . However there may be a good argument for keeping it the way it was.... Also can anyone locate a picture of a modern pirate? KAM 19:36, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I suggest moving all maritime piracy information to maritime piracy, which I'm working on. Pirate should be about pirates and not necessarily about maritime piracy. Adraeus 04:02, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Not that anons are likely going to read this talk page before adding more jokes, but if they do ... please, folks, put pirate jokes in the Pirate jokes article, not this one. It's there for just that purpose. - EDM 06:58, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
ARGH!
There's apparently no evidence that pirates wore earrings more than anyone else. I put a note about this in, and it seems to have been reverted. Was this done deliberately or accidentally? If the later, I'll fix it again; if the former, could someone explain why? NoahB 20:55, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
In the "Other Terms for Pirates" section it has a word in Arabic. Not to be nit-picky, but this is the English article, and while it may be novel to see the word written in Arabic, it's not the slightest bit useful. I'm fine with leaving that there, but an English transliteration would be very much appreciated, and be useful to people other than the tiny minority of Arabic speakers who might read this article for reference. -- Freshyill 03:06, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Transliteration now added. It might be helpful to also do the Arabic script is a slightly larger font, as in its current size it is almost impossible for non-Arabic readers to even identify the letters being used. Once I figure out how to do that, I'll test it out. Su 20:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
A WikiProject has been proposed on List of proposed projects to improve coverage of and focus on both historic and modern periods in Piracy. MadMax 01:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I noticed the following had been added to the end of the privateering section:
"There has been a resurgence of privateering in recent years in the Throggs Neck area of New York."
Funny? Yes, but not appropriate. :) -- 24.47.145.73 06:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Is the term "piracy" applied to riverboat robbery? If yes, then can someone add a small section.
The question popped up in relation to a Russian historical robber, Stenka Razin. An anon editor added him to List of pirates. Traditionally he was not called "pirate" in Russian, simply "robber" (razboinik), so I deleted him from the list. So the second question is whether I was right. `' mikka (t) 18:46, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello - new Wikipedian here. I would like to clean up the section 'Pirate organization' a bit.
- It doesn't make it clear which time period we are discussing as the 'classical age of piracy': C17th, or later? The section on Caribbean piracy is from 1560 up until the 1720s; but the section on privateers goes up to 1854.
- 'England's imperial reign' is OK for pre-1707, but needs clarification, maybe. 'English empire' comes up with no hits on Wikipedia, the info is listed under 'British Empire'.
- 'English captains were known to have been extremely brutal; the captain held a sort of sovereign power aboard his ship and many were unafraid to abuse that power. It is thought that the service of an English sailor during England's imperial reign is the most inhumane of all wartime duties to date.' Is there evidence that conditions on English warships and merchant vessels in this period were substantially more autocratic and brutal than on French, Dutch etc.? If so, citations please.
- 'The most inhumane of all wartime duties to date' I would like to delete this (it's unprovable), or at least provide a reference for the opinion.
Drafting new version... please let me know if you have comments...
Lindisfarne 18:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't have specific sources to hand, but the first part of the section seems about right for the latter half of the 17th Century. Once we get into the stuff about Imperialism I get a strong feeling that NPOV just got thrown out of the window. And, again, no specific sources, but the author seems to have the normal, and inaccurate, pop-culture images of a seaman's life. For instance, the Naval press gangs in Britain wwere only supposed to impress seamen. (Details of some of this are already in Wikipedia) Zhochaka 22:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Why don't you add some info about the Ancient Pirates - the Illyrians pirateered the Roman Adriatic Sea. There was also a fierce Serbian pirateering tribe - Pagania. -- HolyRomanEmperor 13:41, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I think we should remove pirates in high schools and middle school sports, there are probably thousands and thousands and the list will grow to ridiculous proportions. I'm even worried about colleges, I can think of a few just off hand. Thoughts? -- Awiseman 00:39, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
"Eyepatch wearing also would have been convenient for seeing in poorly lit conditions, and pirates of old may have done this to help see below deck." This is totally beyond me. Any reference to medical fact to support this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by O'Donnell ( talk • contribs)
I understand that it's the goal of an encyclopedia to be as impartial and informative as possible, but this article is simply riddled with laughable, unprofessional details. Why is it necessary to include every highschool with a pirate mascot? Clearly there are thousands. Also, is it necessary to reference obscure internet cartoons? Perhaps a new article should be created dealing with "Pirates in Modern Culture". This would make sense, as i dont know of anyone who would read through an encylopedia hoping to find cartoon pirate jokes on the internet... O'Donnell 13:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Added the Beloit Buccanneers to the college sports mascots.
Article says "The crime of piracy is considered jus cogens, a conventional peremptory international norm from which states may not derogate." Isn't that backwards? As it currently reads, it says that "piracy is considered a norm" and/or "the crime is considered jus cogens", which is contrary to the definition. I believe it should read "The crime of piracy is considered a breach of jus cogens, a conventional peremptory international norm from which states may not derogate." Derek Balsam 01:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Are there any pictures of actual real life pirates? sikander 03:43, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Some of the pictures on this article are pretty lame. The cartoon one is featured for some reason so I guess it's gunan stay for some reason, but the one of an actor protraying a pirate has got to go. If you must have a picture of an actor, why not one who dresses liek a pirate? I don't recall any pirates wearing white face paint and having cartoon eyes. A picture from Hook or Pirates of the Carribean might be a little more relevant. Reignbow 21:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Done Weird Bird 08:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
this page needs to have a notice saying it needs to be cleaned up, i found many things that were not true such as pirates pierced their ear lobes with rings to supposedly increase vision
I really don't think we need to mention every band, book, movie, story, etc that mentions pirates - there have to be thousands. Maybe a few well-known examples of each? -- Awiseman 21:48, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
That has to be seriously the lamest part of the whole article. Can we get rid of the piratical stereotypes, or at least put it in sentance form. It is like reading a 10 year old's list of bullet points after he watched a pirate movie. It is the most retarded thing I have ever seen on Wikipedia. Nick
Moved list of fictional pirates to its own article, per above discussion. Aardvark92 19:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to link so many words? It doesn't help readability.
For example, in this paragraph:
The Latin term pirata, from which the English "pirate" is derived, derives ultimately from Greek peira "attack, attempt", cognate to peril. By the 1st century BC, there were pirate states along the Anatolian coast, threatening the commerce of the Roman Empire.
Latin, English, Greek, Anatolian, and Roman Empire are all HTML links. Is this really necessary?
If it is necessary to link to a definition of so many terms, why aren't commerce, peril, states, ultimately, derives and threatening also linked?
I can understand linking to Anatolian, and to a lesser degree Roman Empire. But wouldn't somebody who didn't know what Latin, Greek or English meant be able to look those up? Somebody reading the English version should at least be able to understand what "English" means without needing a link.
This is noted in the introduction of the article. This seems odd to me, any reference for this? Also wouldn't it be a good idea to include some more pictures in the article (instead of the twice the same Jolly Roger image...), maybe of modern pirates of the coast of western Africa or Strait of Malacca. 217.121.193.200 15:17, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Has anyone come across any evidence of modern-day piracy in the Mediterranean? If not, this reference should be revised/deleted. lamato 18:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd moved all popular culture references into article of ots own: Pirates in popular culture. This is common strategy to deal with such information and keep the main article focused. For many examples see Category:In popular culture.
The (non-popular-references) external links should be pruned down. Pavel Vozenilek 21:37, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
There is evidence, still controversial, that some famous pirate bands were in fact homosexuals living free outside normal social constraints. It would make sense to at least mention this somewhere in the article. -- M0llusk 00:24, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
the ancient piracy stuff didn't belong in the introduction, but rather it's own section, and since everyone will bitch if I dont dicusss it on the talk page, here you go! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dharmabatteries ( talk • contribs)
this was under Commerce raiders
Aaron also likes to look at his mama Aaron likes to look at men. fixed —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.246.213.116 ( talk) 22:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC).
We should add a little about pirate slang, like how they called cannons guns, what the seven seas were, and what shiver me timbers means and stuff like that The Clydelishes Clyde 01:04, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
“These Slavs relieved the old Illyrian pirateeering habits and often raided the Adriatic Sea. Already in 642 they invaded southern Italia and assaulted Siponte in Benevento.”
What does “relieved” mean? Should it be “relived”? It still doesn’t sound grammatically correct. I tried to fix this but the page was locked.
“Revived”?
It means to highten the effect of or to relieve someone of a duty.
I came here looking specifically for information on what many call 'software piracy' and how it's related to, but not necessarily the same thing as 'copyright infringement'.
Seems that these days, people looking up 'piracy' are likeing coming from the context of software or the RIAA moreso that swashbucklers. Perhaps this should be made more clear at the top of the article: Looking for SOFTWARE PIRACY?...
156.98.171.81 23:20, 3 January 2007 (UTC)darrel 01/03/2007
Why do movies glamourize Pirates and make them seem not as dangerous as they really are? Movies put it in a child's head that Pirates are cool and not the dangerous criminals they really are in our world today. 12/05/2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.70.105.48 ( talk) 04:10, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Over at the Treasure map article, I have been working hard to expand it. Several reliable references claim that no pirate treasure maps exist, but I'm not so sure anymore. I don't know how closely watched the article is, but it seems like an important one. While that article is shaping up to not focus solely on pirate treasure maps, those really seem to be where most of the interest lies. Do any pirate aficionados know of any real cases of pirate treasure maps? The Captain Kidd map and other maps about Oak Island come to mind, but it's hard to cut through the garbage and know what is real, and what is bogus. Some of the new information on the Treasure map article might also do well in the main pirate article. PMHauge 04:08, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
All historians I've seen who have commented on the subject say there are no pirate treasure maps. Now, pirates were illogical sometimes, but they weren't about to take all the treasure that they've worked so hard for and go onto a barren island and sail away! They'd immediately demand a share of the treasure so they could go off to the taverns and brothels and have a good time for a bit! Then, when they ran out of money, they'd set sail again to go steal more. ( Nick31091 03:23, 19 June 2007 (UTC))
I've found evidence of a few pirates burying their treasure, but no evidence at all that they then made maps to it. It is unknown whether Kidd, Blackbeard, Low, or Rackham made maps to their buried treasure, or if they just buried it at a memorable landmark that they knew they could find again. Incidentally, while there may be something buried at Oak Island, there's no real reason to believe that pirates did it. Pirate Dan 16:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Where does this article get its etymology of the word "pirate"? Online Etymology Dictionary derives it quite differently, but from the same Greek root. According to that site, peirates is from the verb peiran, meaning to attack. That makes a LOT more sense than the explanation given here. Chalkieperfect 00:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Um... They're both right: the etymology is just longer than either accounts for, and includes both steps. Peiran ('to attack)' is itself derived from peira ('trial, attempt, endeavour'). Classical Latin Pirata is derived from Hellenistic Greek Pirates, which is derived from peiran. The whole 'finding luck on the sea' bit is wrong though. 'Peiran' has nothing particularly sea-based about it, it's via 'trying your luck' or 'making an attempt on' in any context. Or so says the OED, and I always believe the OED. It is important to remember that sense has nothing to do with etymology, and that judging the validity of derivations on the grounds of sense almost inevitably leads us into error.
io:Pirateso Thank you, João Xavier, user of Ido Wikipedia.
I do Wikipedia whenever i can because she satisfies me <3
I'm not familiar with the conventions for this, but etymology information now appears both in the introduction and in its own section. Should they be consolidated? Dan Zollman ( talk) 05:46, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Because we are missing references this article reads more like a historic story and can be seen as a possible POV. Try working on more sources. -- CyclePat 20:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
My Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (10th ed.) supports the current article's derivation of freebooter from Dutch "vrijbuiter," meaning a taker of free booty. However, Angus Konstam's Pirates: 1660-1730 says that the term derives from "fly-boat" (French flibotes), a popular vessel of French pirates and privateers.
Is there a consensus on this point? Or should we include both etymologies in the article? -- Pirate Dan 13:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
OK, OED again. It suggests that the origin of freebooter is definitely in the Dutch 'vrijbuiter', the earliest known usage being 'frebetters.' 'Flibotes' is itself seperately derived from the dutch 'vlieboot'. Comparison of 'freeboot' and 'flibote' may however have influenced the formation of 'filibuster', primarily derived from 'vrijbuiter,' moving via the form 'flibutor', of which only a single example survives. Then again, it may not have, 'filibuster' may come direct from the Dutch, and 'flibutor' may be a dead-end. With words, who can tell? P.S.: The OED is way better than Miriam Webster. I love the OED.
Sorry, to sound odd, but to me it seems that the following part really doesn't fit in this section, and is more just an attempt to laud a local hero/legend. I just didn't feel comfortable outright deleting it, tho. The portion I am refering to I have copied below:
One of the later famous pirates of the Caribbean was Roberto Cofresí Ramirez de Arellano (1791-1825). He was put to death for his crimes in Puerto Rico at the Castle of San Felipe del Morro. His romantic legend inspires plays and songs on the island.
Thanach 14:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Roberto Cofresi is definitely not famous enough to be worthy of special mention; the number of people who've heard of him outside Puerto Rico can probably be counted on one finger. As opposed to Blackbeard, La Salle, Black Bart, Henry Morgan, etc.
-- Ivantheshifty 09:22, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I was looking for information on contemporary piracy in the carribean. Although pirates are not as prevalent in the carribean as around the malacca straits they do exist and are a problem. They tend to target privately craft rather than commercial vessels. Can anyone tell me any more? I am doing a dissertation on piracy and terrorism and could eventually contribute something to this article I guess. scruffylonghairedguy@gmail.com 82.39.97.202 21:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering if vikings should be included as pirates. Obviously they plundered Europe, but they often did so under the authority of the Scandinavian nobles. Any thoughts? 200.82.223.63 05:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I'd say no. You answered your own question - they had authority. 19:41, 10 January 2008 (UTC)Surfbruddah —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.247.6 ( talk)
the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, I believe, refers to them as pirates - although I do not know what the word is in Old English Streona ( talk) 15:41, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I found a site that shows the "mythtory" of pirate flags, and the ones the actual pirates used. Maybe we should change some of the wikipedia articles? BonaAdenture.org.uk Wobblies 12:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
"Unlike traditional Western societies of the time, many pirate clans operated as limited democracies, demanding the right to elect and replace their leaders."
Why pick on Western societies? I suspect the comment applies to pretty much every society of the time (the "classical period" of piracy).
The sections "Life as a pirate" and "Brain Damage" are entirely uncited twaddle and generally violate the
NPOV policy. Does anyone mind if I remove them or savagely edit them? --
Ossipewsk (
talk) 23:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
The "Brain Damage" section is wild, incredibly unlikely speculation unsupported by any proof. The rational of bad food being a reason for alcoholism is just unfounded nonsense. I pulled the section out. Oooops! It's back. Someone is defending it for no good reason. Oh well, I'm not going to waste more time on it. Let those dumb enough to believe it go ahead and believe it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.26.52.125 ( talk) 05:36, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
"To fill the warships, officers would forcibly pressgang boys and young men to replace lost crew." - not sure what to edit exactly, but that makes it sound like pressganging was the only way crew were replaced, which it certainly wasn't, and isn't "forcibly" redundant if you say they are pressganged anyway?
Auto98uk (
talk) 12:43, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Not all pressganging was forcible. Just as often, pressgangs would try to bribe potential recruits with higher wages. Or just get them to sign a contract while drunk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.56.61.70 ( talk) 19:07, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I edited the comment that read as follows
"While boats off the coasts of North America and the Mediterranean Sea are still assailed by pirates, the Royal Navy and the U.S. Coast Guard have nearly eradicated piracy in U.S. waters and the Caribbean Sea."
to read
"While boats off the coasts of North Africa and the Mediterranean Sea are still assailed by pirates, the Royal Navy and the U.S. Coast Guard have nearly eradicated piracy in U.S. waters and the Caribbean Sea."
the statement conflicted itself and was not accurate. 84.254.189.64 04:00, 13 July 2007 (UTC) too lazy to register
Shouldn't both sides of pirate life be added then instead of solely focusing in western pirate life? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.170.206.20 ( talk) 11:46, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Merge with Maritime piracy.This article seems does not even seem to have so much as a footnote as to the controversy of the terminology of "piracy", and it goes far beyond the recent usage as a synonym for copyright infringement.historical usage has meant various types of thievery, and the act itself in general,even during the golden age of piracy, and some word origins don't even mention anything about the sea. Rodrigue 18:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Merge with Maritime piracy.According to several websites [4] [5], there are various origins for the term, and not all include the concept of the sea. 64.229.200.174 19:58, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Oppose Even though this has been closed, I disagree. The main deffintion of the word Piracy, as those websites 64.229.200.174 posted state, is in regards to Piracy on the sea. All of the other types of piracy have their own article. I don't believe someone looking for say, Pirate radio would be searching Piracy. If for some reason they do, there is a link at the top of the page to the disambiguation page. Also, one vote by a user who has never edited before cannot be considered a consensus. I am also going to be placing a link at the top that proposes this page be moved back to Piracy. Deflagro Contribs/ Talk 21:26, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Maritime Piracy → Piracy — I don't think a consensus was reached on the Merger — Deflagro Contribs/ Talk 21:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
There was not a consensus to move. At all. There already is an article at Maritime piracy so moving this to Maritime Piracy is just broken. I've restored it. That "piracy" existed for so long as just a redirect after this broken move indicates there isn't some more important meaning of "piracy" that people think of. SchmuckyTheCat
Piracy in East Asia
- Piracy in South East Asia began with the retreating Mongol Yuan fleet after the betrayal by their Sri Vijayan allies in the war with Majapahit. They preferred the junk, a ship using a more robust sail layout. Marooned navy officers, consisting mostly of Cantonese and Hokkien tribesmen, set up their small gangs near river estuaries, mainly to protect themselves. They recruited locals as common foot-soldiers known as 'lang' (lanun) to set up their fortresses. They survived by utilizing their well trained pugilists, as well as marine and navigation skills, mostly along Sumatran and Javanese estuaries. Their strength and ferocity coincided with the impending trade growth of the maritime silk and spice routes.
- However, the most powerful pirate fleets of East Asia were those of Chinese pirates during the mid- Qing dynasty. bla bla bla bla bla...
I don't know a lot about the history of Piracy in S.E. Asian but I know that
Hence, the existence of S.E pirates in Piracy in East Asia is meaningless, misleading, unrelated. I proposed two solution :
I prefer the first one. Separating the section. Kunderemp 18:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Furthermore, I found some issues with the Qing Period piracy information. Mainly, Zheng Yi did not inherit the fleet of his (very) distant cousin Zeng Qi. Rather, he built up his own fleet after returning from fighting in the Tay Son rebellion, and in 1805 he, along with 6 other pirates, signed an agreement creating a pirate coallition. He was not in charge of all of these fleets, just his Red Flag Fleet, but after his death, his wife Zheng Yi Sao seized control of the entire coallition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.35.167 ( talk) 19:18, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
I am not aware of any statistically significant analysis of the estimated losses attributed to piracy a year. I have seen wild estimates like that made in the cited Foreign Affairs article that are usually attributed to private security companies trying to scare customers into purchasing their services. I would request this estimate be removed until statistically significant proof can be cited. PirateHunter 15:50, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree it is very high and for this reason I cannt see why it is written on the pirate wiki that they have almost wiped out pirating, when in fact it is currently on the increase, with 24 ships pirated off of somalia in a 4 month period, opposed to the 44 over 12 months of the last year. Dosedmonkey —Preceding comment was added at 23:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Am I the only one that thinks it's odd that when it mentions walking the plank in this page, it claims it's a construct created by J M Barrie's Peter Pan, and yet when you click on the link to "walk the plank" it gives historical accounts of it dating back to the 18th century? Only one of these can be right. Either JM Barrie made it up for Peter Pan, or it's historically accurate. 207.68.250.128 23:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed the statement from the introduction that the Jolly ROger of the movies is the Calico Jack flag. The statement was inaccurate for several reasons.
1. There is no uniformity among Jolly Rogers shown in the movies.
2. The so-called Calico Jack flag is not the Jolly Roger most often shown in the movies; Calico Jack's putative Jolly Roger was a skull with crossed swords, but a skull with crossed bones appears more often in the movies. The crossed swords became cinematically popular only in the 1990s, with Cutthroat Island, with the theme continued into the 2000s by the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy.
3. There is no primary source evidence that the historical Calico Jack Rackham ever actually flew a skull with crossed swords flag. The design attributed to him appears only in secondary sources.
Pirate Dan 14:29, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
The article Golden Age of Piracy consists of few paragraphs of history (that would fit into the Caribbean section of this one) plus a half dozen names. Seems to have little of significance that couldn't easily be squeezed in here. Hult041956 00:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Another merge tag (this one from Maritime piracy) has been on this article since February. That article is almost a stub/definition and just points back to this one in its See Also section. Any interest in fixing that situation? Hult041956 18:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Please write what area you are from Ashleydhs ( talk) 18:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC) Ashley
hi no one knows me but i am doing a inquiry on piratres and i was woundering if you could give me some informationon on pirates like what makes them real,how are they real,are they even real no affents but i realy need this information like as soon as you can give it to me so my qwestion here is are pirates real if they are can you tell my what makes them real
Hi, we would know you if you signed your post with four ~ characters after your edit :-) No offense,but you can get the answer to your questions by reading the article - which is the beauty of an encyclopedia Good Skoda ( talk) 21:11, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
As vandal-like my edits may seem to piracy about the barrel. It turns out that it is a true occurance. My English teacher first told my class about the barrel and now I looked up the saying "your turn in the barrel" and it turned out that it is legitimate. I hope you switch back my edit because it is the strange, but verifiable, truth. Moose4545 ( talk) 15:52, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
I was looking at the Famous historical pirates/privateers, and I noticed that Horuk Barborossa wasn't in here. I read about him in this one book about piracy and he seemed to be a pretty famous pirate (desserving enough to have his own chapter). Please take him into consideration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.85.232.249 ( talk) 01:09, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
No, this guy was Muslim not Italian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.85.232.249 ( talk) 05:34, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Guess thats the guy. Maybe my book has the english spelling of his name.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.85.232.249 ( talk • contribs) 02:11, December 24, 2007
The result of the consensus was to delete the section Deflagro C/ T
I think this section should be deleted. It is often a target of vandalism (IPs adding their own names, etc), it's getting longer with non-famouse people on it (I think soon enough there will be every pirate article on Wikipedia in it), and there is already a list on {{ Pirates}} at the bottom of the page. So there isn't really a point for the section, and it's becoming more trouble then it helps. (I'm not talking about List of Fictional Pirates). Thanks! Deflagro C/ T 16:48, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Drake should not be under the famous pirates, beacuse he was a knight in the name of Queen Elizabeth and was a priviteer for England. Also he served as Vice admiral to the Royal Navy. Only the spanish concedered him as a pirate, but by your vague diffintion of piracy he is in fact not a pirate.
-- Crayonman ( talk) 02:48, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
My reading of the Wiki article on Barbarossa leads me to understand that he was essentially a military general, an admiral of a large maritime military force which was essentially unparalelled in ITs time in the Mediterrannean.... the conquering of islands and coastal cities by his fleet was consistently under the auspices of official "green lights" from the Ottoman regime, and was even viewed as a liberation and saving grace by Muslims under the thrall of Spain.... i would edit the Piracy article to indicate that Barbarossa was not marauding for the sake of looting and riches, but i am not allowed to edit IT at this time, so i am hoping that someone reading this with the power to do so will edit in a short aside in the "Corsairs" and "Barbary Pirates" sections to indicate the specific nature of Barbarossa's military actions.... Thank you!
Eric Pasquier has forty photographs of modern pirates of the South China Sea. Several of his photos were showcased in the May 2000 article Crime Waves by Nick Ryan for the Royal Geographical Society's Geographical magazine. Perhaps someone might be interested in using one of these photos in the article? Contact Eric Pasquier for permission. Adraeus ( talk) 02:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Lady pirates are the fiered. THEY RULE!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.69.71.63 ( talk) 18:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
"Pirates sometimes evade pursuers by sailing into waters controlled by their enemies."
Now, that sounded ambiguous to me, even though the meaning was clear: pirates will escape into the coastal waters of their pursuer's enemy, thereby preventing the pursuers from catching them. However, it could be misread as thought it were saying pirates would flee into coastal waters controlled by THEIR enemies, which obviously makes no logical sense.
Therefore, I changed the above sentence in the article to:
"Pirates sometimes evade capture by sailing into waters controlled by their pursuer's enemies."
I think that will clear up any possible misinterpretations, and I can't imagine why it ought to be reverted in any way. I just couldn't help but change it.
Thanks.
68.43.93.253 ( talk) 04:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC) Rex Reinhard
Did pirates ever really use this catchphrase? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.212.113.110 ( talk) 20:29, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
"While boats off the coasts of North Africa and the Mediterranean Sea are still assailed by pirates, the Royal Navy and the U.S. Coast Guard have nearly eradicated piracy in U.S. waters and in the Caribbean Sea." --- no citation !!
This seems to be POV (some Royal Navy/ US coast guard afficionado ?) and needs an edit. Though cases of yacht piracy have been reported in the Mediterrenean (there is no other form of piracy in these waters), this particular form of piracy seems to be much more of a problem in the Caribbean.
http://www.sailingahead.com/vacations/high-risk-piracy.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.171.168.80 ( talk) 14:31, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
I have a problem with the following statement. "Due to modern piracy's status as basically robbery mixed with violence, filmmakers do not commonly depict modern pirates in movies (with Piraty XX veka, Six Days Seven Nights, and The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou being rare exceptions)."
This seems to be an assumption with no citation. Piracy has always been robbery mixed with violence so why is modern piracy any different than piracy during the "Golden age of piracy" in regards to being depicted in film. I am going to remove it if no one objects. Azn Clayjar ( talk) 14:49, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
I added Chevalier de Grammont to the list of famous pirates, but there does not seem to be an article about him on Wikipedia. If I get a chance, I'll have to do some research on him and create an article, as he was a pretty important player among Caribbean pirates. PirateJohn ( talk) 07:20, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
HEY- JACK SPARROW IS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER- NOT A HISTORICAL PIRATE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.67.187.103 ( talk) 17:15, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
It might make sense that there should be a separate article for modern piracy, it seems that, especially the "recent incidents" section, is getting long. zafiroblue05 | Talk 21:45, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello. I am from the city of Payette, ID, and i am in the school of which our theme is pirates. sincerely, C.R.
I've heard that rape (along with the other crimes listed in this article) was one of the crimes committed by pirates during the exodus of south vietnamese during the Vietnam war. To quote the article Boat people, "There were untold miseries, rapes and murders on the South China Sea committed by Thai pirates who preyed on the refugees who had sold all their possessions and carried gold with them on the trips." It might be in the article, but I skimmed/searched and I saw nothing about it. It's not that I want to be a downer, but I think it deserves lipservice out of a sign of respect for victims. Does anyone have an opinion on this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.103.13.145 ( talk) 08:50, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
We have Category:Privateer ships, which I am not sure is inclusive of all pirate's ships. Further, perhaps we could use a category for ships targeted and captured by the pirates, but necessarily used by them for further piracy? Ex. the MV Sirius Star from current news.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:25, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
On 19 November 2008, the Indian Navy reported that this time she had come under attack from pirates. In reaction the INS Tabar crew then requested the pirate vessel stop to allow a search, but the pirates responded with a threat to sink the INS Tabar if it came any closer. The pirates then opened fire on the INS Tabar and the Indians consequently responded in like measure. After the retaliatory strike, it was reported that a large explosion occurred on the pirate vessel, rumoured to be a result of the pirates' arms cache. As the attack continued for about three-four more hours, the successful retaliation resulted in the sinking of the pirate's "mother ship." The INS Tabar also forced the abandonment of another pirate vessel, while several pirates managed to escape via a speedboat under the cover of darkness.[5] Recalling the incident to media persons, an Indian naval spokesman, Commander Nirad Sinha, said that the "INS Tabar encountered a pirate vessel south west of Oman with two speedboats in tow. This vessel was similar in description to the 'mother vessel' mentioned in various piracy bulletins. INS Tabar closed in on the vessel and asked her to stop for investigation. Pirates were seen roaming on the upper deck of the vessel with guns and rocket propelled grenade launchers. The vessel continued threatening calls and subsequently fired upon INS Tabar."[6][7][8]
From November 2 - 19, Indian naval operations in the area, led by the INS Tabar successfully escorted approximately 35 ships, including many non-Indian flagged vessels, safely during the transit through these pirate-infested waters.
Whoever is the maker of this page, please put this in recent incidents. This is the latest incident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.200.96.6 ( talk) 06:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
In the intro, I changed "foreign nonstate actor" to "nonstate actor." Piracy can definitely be committed by someone not a foreigner: Stede Bonnet's and Blackbeard's crew were convicted of piracy for robbing their fellow British subjects, so they weren't "foreign" actors in relation to their victims. 13:55, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
I think the part of this article regarding the law of piracy could be added to, and I have a couple of books and a lot of articles on this subject. But one of the sources I'd want to cite would be something I wrote. I read through the conflict of interest section, and it said to announce that you might have a conflict of interest. I guess this is not necessarily a conflict of interest, I just don't want it to look like I'm secretly adding references to my own work. So just a heads up. I may start expanding that section rapidly over this coming weekend. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.32.196.236 ( talk) 02:44, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps it can be mentioned that vessels can protect themselves against piracy by implementing Vessel boarding protection the systems (hot water wall, electricity-charged water wall [1]) eg from secure marine can be mentioned. In addition, robotic or remote-controlled USV's are also sometimes used. [2]
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
87.66.48.4 (
talk) 08:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
I think the external links section needs cleaning-up. It has good links from credited sources but what about the mariner's points of view. There are excellent maritime blogs like EagleSpeak that give daily reports on piracy and a few professional mariner forums that have discussions by ship captains on maritime security. gCaptain.com comes to mind but it's mostly gives the American perspective and there are a few others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.148.52.55 ( talk) 06:56, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
"Pirate ship" redirects here. Should there be a link to Pirate ship (ride) at the top of this article, or should "Pirate ship" redirect to "Pirate ship (ride)" and there be a link to this article at the top of that page? 86.141.120.18 ( talk) 09:38, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Someone moved software piracy, pirate radio, Pittsburgh Pirates, and Tampa Bay Buccaneers from a dignified obscurity at the bottom of this article to the top. Giving top billing to these minor instances of piracy as a figure of speech is out-of-control disambiguation. What next, a disambiguation page like the even sillier Pine? Ortolan88
We're losing ground. What were reasonable cross references have now been purged because they weren't legitimate disambiguation. And we still have the foolish software piracy at the top, even though no one would ever confuse it with sea piracy. This is why I don't like disambiguation. It is mechanistic (and, it seems, militaristic as well). Up tight enforcement of imaginary policies.
First there were pirates, sea robbers as they are called in German. Then there were sports teams, one of them called the Pirates, probably because they stole some games from somebody, and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, so called because there used to be pirates in Tampa back in the day and they still make a big deal out of it, with pirate days and the like, and there was pirate radio, which started out at sea (get it?) on anti-aircraft platforms in the English channel, and then the rather milder and less adventurous software piracy, which is stealing other people;s work, though without violence. This was all fine when the article was about sea pirates and the others were cross-referenced at the bottom, now we have on the one hand lost information and on the other raised software piracy ("our kind of piracy") above broadcast piracy and the simple use of the pirate motif in sports. All because someone was frightened of having two links in the same article. As I was saying, very silly. Ortolan88
accuracy of this statement:
Peregrine981 18:46, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Resurrecting after User:213.106.17.103
on a sidenote: becoming a pirate was quick to accomplish for some germans in the 20th century. After unconditional surrender May 1945 the Allies declared all german military seamen pirates , who would not immediately fly the black flag instead of the Kriegsmarine flag. The black flag , however, was usually used by pirates only.
Even after reading the preceding comments, I have added the term piracy and its connection to software & copyright to the top again as part of the article. Here's why. The article for piracy is a redirect to this page. If someone is reading about software copyright infringement, for example, and clicks on piracy, they'd come here and see only the sea pirate info and a link to the disambig page. If they go to the disambig page, they could click on software piracy or copyright infringement and get back to an article that has a link to "piracy"... and now we're in a loop. The term "piracy" needs to be called out and defined somewhere--if you want to know what "piracy" is, it would be nice to click on a link and have it defined--which goes back to the origin of the word, which has to do with pirates--AND to have it explained in context, which you can't really do on a redirect page. Does this make sense? I hope that I have written it in such a way that it doesn't feel like a non sequitur. Elf | Talk 00:35, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)
This article states that buccaneer dervies from from boucan, Portugese slang for people of the Caribbean.
However the entry for buccaneer states that is is from the French word boucan, a frame used by the pirates to cure meat
Most sources on the web suggest that the term comes from the French boucanier (i.e. user of a boucan) including the American Heritage Dictionary entry found on dictonary.com and an Online Etymological Dictionary.
According to a French definition of Buccaneer in an etymology of English nautical terms, le mot français boucanier est sa racine. Boucaner signifiait faire griller la viande et la fumer pour la conserver ce que faisaient les pirates des Caraïbes pour conserver leurs vivres (Méthode supposée empruntée aux cannibales locaux !…) - "The French word boucanier is its root. Boucaner means to grill meat and to smoke it for preseervation, as the pirates of the Caribbean did to preserve their food. (The method was presumably borrowed from local cannibals!)"
A definition of bucaneiro on this Brazilian Portuguese page gives the French etymology.
I couldn't find any source for the Portuguese origin as stated here. If boucan is used in the sense of "people of the Caribbean" in Portuguese I imagine this will have stemmed from the French too.
So should this article use the French etymology?
Just to confuse things, One source suggests the name comes from a type of knife used by pirates called a boucan!
I favour removing the plot spoiler in the sentence about the Dread Pirate Roberts. -- Townmouse 01:32, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
To Peregrine981's statement: I was under the impression, at least from Euro history, that the money was just squandered...the largesse of the Kings of Spain consumed the gold of the New World That's accurate. Military expenditures were by far the largest expenditures of governments across Europe at that time.
Yes, it's true that Spain squandered and that military expenditures were, in general, the largest across Europe. However, to suggest that Spain's overexpansion bankrupted Spain is also not entirely inaccurate. Spain financed their very aggressive expansion policy, as well as their nobles' lavish lifestyle, by the American silver they conquered. This influx of silver drove up the price in Spain, fueling the need for more silver and thus further expansion. The cycle repeated until Spain can no longer secure enough silver to sustain their spending, finally ending in the government's bankrupcy.
I've added a bit more to the 'Arrr matey' section about steriotypical pirate clothing and expressions. I almost think this could have it's own page, just for a bit of fun. -- Swamp Ig 06:08, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
"Pirate attacks tripled between 1993 and 2003. The first half of 2003 was the worst 6-month period on record, with 234 pirate attacks, 16 deaths, and 52 people injured worldwide. There were also 193 crew members held hostage during this period." -- is there a source available for these statistics?
Apparently some guy changed the quotes, somebody might want to look into it.
Anon user added this; I cannot find any references in any search engine online so removed it. Can anyone corroborate, or is this another personal in-joke?
Elf | Talk 22:40, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
ARRRRRR.
Days of yore? isn't that a little imprecise? chris 00:32, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Because it is largely taken from the 'talk like a pirate' page, is factually inacurate, and, to the extent that it is acurate, is not 'pirate expressions', but general shipboard slang. Trollderella 17:21, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Aye Aye Captain: Sayings by the Seamen when taking an order from the Captain of the Ship.
A recent history channel program enlightened me, noting that pirates also had a positive impact on some of the societies they encountered. They sold tax-free products, (likely stolen products from a recently pillaged village) nonetheless, providing many poverty stricken communities with cheap food, and goods. In turn helping to relieve starvation, and possibly saving many lives. Is this worth mentioning? - R Lee E ( talk, contribs) 07:27, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
Rather than search for evidence that the "official website of pirates" was not the official website of pirates—a likely futile attempt to prove a negative—I searched for evidence that it was the official website of pirates, as such evidence would be necessary in order to sustain the inclusion of this link in the article. Conclusion: the registrant of the website is not a pirate, or at least is not described as such in any material accessible to Google. Corollary: the website is unlikely to be an official pirate website. To the proponent of this information: please demonstrate to the community that this is the official website of pirates, with verifiable information that is not self-referential. - EDM 01:16, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
(The personal information was removed due to the fact that the registrar is not the maker of the site and does not want to be associated with this site or its discussion. The registration information has been made private, check for yourself if you have any doubts.)
The thing is, Cap'n, that while your website looks like it will be plenty of fun and all that, it bears about the same relation to the subject of this encyclopedia article as Mickey Mouse does to mice. Riffs on a topic are not an encyclopedic source for information on the topic. - EDM
[To readers who may find the above hard to follow: Cap'n Nezit insists on chopping into comments I've left on this page and deleting portions of them. Doing so leaves the remnants incoherent, and misleadingly makes it seem as though I'd made a statement without support. The original text can be found here. - EDM 06:39, 13 October 2005 (UTC)]
Why is everything on our entry also here? http://www.answers.com/topic/pirate Should I be concerned or is there a legal link I'm not aware of?
The license Wikipedia uses grants free access to our content in the same sense as free software is licensed freely. This principle is known as copyleft. That is to say, Wikipedia content can be copied, modified, and redistributed so long as the new version grants the same freedoms to others and acknowledges the authors of the Wikipedia article used (a direct link back to the article satisfies our author credit requirement).
It might be a little obscure, but I added DOOM PIRATE to the list of fictional pirates. He is from a comic that a kid at my school makes. I also made made so that "Maddox" mentioned under the Jack Lumber entry in the fictional pirates section linked to the wikipedia Best Page In the Universe article. I'm going to ask him to make a page on Doom Pirate
Perhaps some reference to maddox and flying spaghetti monsterism, or perhaps even spongebob squarepants would help people assess the pop-culture meaning of the word 'Pirate'. Googling "Doom Pirate" also returns this page, so i deleted that reference 195.172.220.162 14:20, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
Pirates, as many people know, sailed under a black flag. What the general public doesn't know, however, is that many pirates were as Black as the flags they flew.
In my new novel Kingston by Starlight (Three Rivers Press/Crown Publishing) I tell a fictionalized version of the true story of Anne Bonny, a woman who dressed as a man in the early 1700s, became a pirate, and was put on trial for her alleged crimes in 1721.
In my novel I speculate about the ties she might have had to Africans in her family tree. I also weave into my story some true tales of pirates of African heritage.
Pirates were an important, integral part of the international scene during the late 17th and early 18th century. Anyone who took a sea voyage, anyone who sent cargo by boat, anyone who worked on board a floating vessel, had to worry about pirate attacks. Nations employed pirates to prey on the shipping of other nations. Pirates inspired numerous books and plays and songs. Pirates became symbols — not only of living outside the law, but of freedom, bought at a high cost and lived on one's own terms.
It became imperative, then, for the established powers of the European world to conceal the fact that many pirates were in fact people of color. It would have caused havoc if slaves knew that freedom was just offshore, riding the waves, flying a black flag.
Some of these Black pirates were, in part, mythic. The Fomorian pirates, some of the first people to make war on Ireland and to settle some of its lands, were of African descent — they are talked about in the myths and lore of Ireland.
But many other Black pirates were definitely flesh and blood. Kenneth J. Kinkor, a historian with the Whydah Project, which is examining the wreck of a pirate ship, has reported that perhaps 30 percent of the 5,000 or more pirates who were active between 1715 and 1725 were of African heritage.
Some of the most famous pirates in history were either Black or had a significant number of Blacks in their crews. Blackbeard was the most feared pirate of the early 18th century — and 60 of his 100 crewmen were Black. Laurens de Graff was considered the most successful pirate of the 17th century — and he was actually a runaway slave of African heritage. There are many more examples: Captain Kidd's quartermaster was Black, for example, and many pirate bases were located in North Africa.
Some historians have suggested that if there were Blacks on pirate crews, they may have been working as servants or slaves. But pirates tended to defy the traditions of their times, and there are enough examples of Black pirates actually leading pirate ships — like de Graff — to suggest that many Blacks successfully secured freedom, and positions of power and influence, on pirate vessels.
The Black community has often been told by society at large that it is wrong to glorify outlaws. Blues musicians were criticized in their day for flouting society's conventions. Hip-hop performers have been harassed for challenging cultural mores. And yet, in the larger community, renegades and rebels are often put on pedestals, from Robin Hood to Billy the Kid to Eminem.
White pirates, in books such as Treasure Island and movies such as Pirates of the Caribbean, are portrayed not as hateful criminals, but as lovable rogues, capable of cruelty, but also somehow admirable, even lovable. Digital pirates are hunted by corporations and prosecutors, but are embraced as heroes by youth culture. There is often something good to be found in people who are willing to fight the power.
In my novel Kingston by Starlight, I try to reclaim Black history. Pirates were often rogues, yes, but there is something in their willingness and ability to challenge the legal authorities of their time that is worth embracing, even celebrating.
In the 17th and 18th century, many people of African heritage were in bondage. Piracy represented a way out, and a way to challenge the very system that made slavery possible. In Kingston by Starlight, I tell stories of the early days of the Bahamas, and the last days of Port Royal, Jamaica. I write of pirate states in North Africa, and of pirate raids in South America. These are stories that aren't told in the history books in school. These are stories of blood and fire and emotion. This is outlaw history, but it is our history. And it is a history worth remembering.
Kingston by Starlight will be published in July. Frank McCourt, author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning book "Angela's Ashes," called it "superbly poetic," and Essence magazine picked it as one of the three best beach reads of the summer.
By Christopher John Farley, Special to the AmNews
Source: The Black faces beneath black flags, By: Farley, Christopher John, New York Amsterdam News, 00287121, 7/7/2005, Vol. 96, Issue 28
I'm not certain where to incorporate some of this information. Adraeus 01:43, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
-- Eno-Etile 08:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Modern piracy can also be for political reasons. For example, warlords in Somalia have sabotaged the delivery of UN food aid to over half a million hungry people in the region [2].
This may be true (if a bit POV) but it isn't really what the article says. This is the relevant portion of the article:
Piracy off Somalia threatens shipping and has sabotaged the delivery of food aid to more than half a million hungry people in the region, the United Nations said on Thursday. Hijackers have commandeered two vessels used by the U.N. World Food Programme this year and ship owners now demand armed escorts to travel in the waters, the agency said. This week, the London-based International Maritime Bureau said it knew of 27 pirate attacks off Somalia since March. The attacks have highlighted insecurity in Somalia, which has had no government to enforce law and order since warlords ousted dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991.
Piracy off the coast of Somalia is interfering with UN food deliveries, but is there a source confirming that the pirates are acting for political motives as opposed to simply the usual economic ones? - EDM 18:16, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
"Captain Pottengal Mukundan of the ICC's International Maritime Bureau (IMB) - whose organization manages the Piracy Reporting Centre - says the latest attacks raise a number of serious concerns.
'In addition to the obvious threat to human life and potential environmental damage, we are very concerned about politically motivated attacks against vessels.'" [3] I agree that the original quote doesn't directly support political piracy, but piracy can definitely happen for political reasons. Tkessler 21:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
The International Maritime Bureau (IMB) has recorded more than 30 attacks on cargo and passenger ships in Somalian waters recorded between Jan and September 2005.
I have first hand knowledge of piracy. The reason I moved modern piracy to the top is because I found it irritating (to say the least) to be searching for info on modern piracy and see all the silly, cartoon pirates. Imagine after being mugged searching for info and finding an article about street crime starting with Robin Hood. Check out William Langewiesche, The Outlaw Sea: A World of Freedom, Chaos, and Crime. As for as the romance angle the people being killed today, ( and probably in the past) are common sailors, many from developing countries. I think it better for someone looking for a picture of a cute pirate to have to go through the modern material first rather then vice-versa. . However there may be a good argument for keeping it the way it was.... Also can anyone locate a picture of a modern pirate? KAM 19:36, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I suggest moving all maritime piracy information to maritime piracy, which I'm working on. Pirate should be about pirates and not necessarily about maritime piracy. Adraeus 04:02, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Not that anons are likely going to read this talk page before adding more jokes, but if they do ... please, folks, put pirate jokes in the Pirate jokes article, not this one. It's there for just that purpose. - EDM 06:58, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
ARGH!
There's apparently no evidence that pirates wore earrings more than anyone else. I put a note about this in, and it seems to have been reverted. Was this done deliberately or accidentally? If the later, I'll fix it again; if the former, could someone explain why? NoahB 20:55, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
In the "Other Terms for Pirates" section it has a word in Arabic. Not to be nit-picky, but this is the English article, and while it may be novel to see the word written in Arabic, it's not the slightest bit useful. I'm fine with leaving that there, but an English transliteration would be very much appreciated, and be useful to people other than the tiny minority of Arabic speakers who might read this article for reference. -- Freshyill 03:06, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Transliteration now added. It might be helpful to also do the Arabic script is a slightly larger font, as in its current size it is almost impossible for non-Arabic readers to even identify the letters being used. Once I figure out how to do that, I'll test it out. Su 20:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
A WikiProject has been proposed on List of proposed projects to improve coverage of and focus on both historic and modern periods in Piracy. MadMax 01:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I noticed the following had been added to the end of the privateering section:
"There has been a resurgence of privateering in recent years in the Throggs Neck area of New York."
Funny? Yes, but not appropriate. :) -- 24.47.145.73 06:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Is the term "piracy" applied to riverboat robbery? If yes, then can someone add a small section.
The question popped up in relation to a Russian historical robber, Stenka Razin. An anon editor added him to List of pirates. Traditionally he was not called "pirate" in Russian, simply "robber" (razboinik), so I deleted him from the list. So the second question is whether I was right. `' mikka (t) 18:46, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello - new Wikipedian here. I would like to clean up the section 'Pirate organization' a bit.
- It doesn't make it clear which time period we are discussing as the 'classical age of piracy': C17th, or later? The section on Caribbean piracy is from 1560 up until the 1720s; but the section on privateers goes up to 1854.
- 'England's imperial reign' is OK for pre-1707, but needs clarification, maybe. 'English empire' comes up with no hits on Wikipedia, the info is listed under 'British Empire'.
- 'English captains were known to have been extremely brutal; the captain held a sort of sovereign power aboard his ship and many were unafraid to abuse that power. It is thought that the service of an English sailor during England's imperial reign is the most inhumane of all wartime duties to date.' Is there evidence that conditions on English warships and merchant vessels in this period were substantially more autocratic and brutal than on French, Dutch etc.? If so, citations please.
- 'The most inhumane of all wartime duties to date' I would like to delete this (it's unprovable), or at least provide a reference for the opinion.
Drafting new version... please let me know if you have comments...
Lindisfarne 18:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't have specific sources to hand, but the first part of the section seems about right for the latter half of the 17th Century. Once we get into the stuff about Imperialism I get a strong feeling that NPOV just got thrown out of the window. And, again, no specific sources, but the author seems to have the normal, and inaccurate, pop-culture images of a seaman's life. For instance, the Naval press gangs in Britain wwere only supposed to impress seamen. (Details of some of this are already in Wikipedia) Zhochaka 22:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Why don't you add some info about the Ancient Pirates - the Illyrians pirateered the Roman Adriatic Sea. There was also a fierce Serbian pirateering tribe - Pagania. -- HolyRomanEmperor 13:41, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I think we should remove pirates in high schools and middle school sports, there are probably thousands and thousands and the list will grow to ridiculous proportions. I'm even worried about colleges, I can think of a few just off hand. Thoughts? -- Awiseman 00:39, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
"Eyepatch wearing also would have been convenient for seeing in poorly lit conditions, and pirates of old may have done this to help see below deck." This is totally beyond me. Any reference to medical fact to support this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by O'Donnell ( talk • contribs)
I understand that it's the goal of an encyclopedia to be as impartial and informative as possible, but this article is simply riddled with laughable, unprofessional details. Why is it necessary to include every highschool with a pirate mascot? Clearly there are thousands. Also, is it necessary to reference obscure internet cartoons? Perhaps a new article should be created dealing with "Pirates in Modern Culture". This would make sense, as i dont know of anyone who would read through an encylopedia hoping to find cartoon pirate jokes on the internet... O'Donnell 13:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Added the Beloit Buccanneers to the college sports mascots.
Article says "The crime of piracy is considered jus cogens, a conventional peremptory international norm from which states may not derogate." Isn't that backwards? As it currently reads, it says that "piracy is considered a norm" and/or "the crime is considered jus cogens", which is contrary to the definition. I believe it should read "The crime of piracy is considered a breach of jus cogens, a conventional peremptory international norm from which states may not derogate." Derek Balsam 01:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Are there any pictures of actual real life pirates? sikander 03:43, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Some of the pictures on this article are pretty lame. The cartoon one is featured for some reason so I guess it's gunan stay for some reason, but the one of an actor protraying a pirate has got to go. If you must have a picture of an actor, why not one who dresses liek a pirate? I don't recall any pirates wearing white face paint and having cartoon eyes. A picture from Hook or Pirates of the Carribean might be a little more relevant. Reignbow 21:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Done Weird Bird 08:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
this page needs to have a notice saying it needs to be cleaned up, i found many things that were not true such as pirates pierced their ear lobes with rings to supposedly increase vision
I really don't think we need to mention every band, book, movie, story, etc that mentions pirates - there have to be thousands. Maybe a few well-known examples of each? -- Awiseman 21:48, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
That has to be seriously the lamest part of the whole article. Can we get rid of the piratical stereotypes, or at least put it in sentance form. It is like reading a 10 year old's list of bullet points after he watched a pirate movie. It is the most retarded thing I have ever seen on Wikipedia. Nick
Moved list of fictional pirates to its own article, per above discussion. Aardvark92 19:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to link so many words? It doesn't help readability.
For example, in this paragraph:
The Latin term pirata, from which the English "pirate" is derived, derives ultimately from Greek peira "attack, attempt", cognate to peril. By the 1st century BC, there were pirate states along the Anatolian coast, threatening the commerce of the Roman Empire.
Latin, English, Greek, Anatolian, and Roman Empire are all HTML links. Is this really necessary?
If it is necessary to link to a definition of so many terms, why aren't commerce, peril, states, ultimately, derives and threatening also linked?
I can understand linking to Anatolian, and to a lesser degree Roman Empire. But wouldn't somebody who didn't know what Latin, Greek or English meant be able to look those up? Somebody reading the English version should at least be able to understand what "English" means without needing a link.
This is noted in the introduction of the article. This seems odd to me, any reference for this? Also wouldn't it be a good idea to include some more pictures in the article (instead of the twice the same Jolly Roger image...), maybe of modern pirates of the coast of western Africa or Strait of Malacca. 217.121.193.200 15:17, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Has anyone come across any evidence of modern-day piracy in the Mediterranean? If not, this reference should be revised/deleted. lamato 18:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd moved all popular culture references into article of ots own: Pirates in popular culture. This is common strategy to deal with such information and keep the main article focused. For many examples see Category:In popular culture.
The (non-popular-references) external links should be pruned down. Pavel Vozenilek 21:37, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
There is evidence, still controversial, that some famous pirate bands were in fact homosexuals living free outside normal social constraints. It would make sense to at least mention this somewhere in the article. -- M0llusk 00:24, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
the ancient piracy stuff didn't belong in the introduction, but rather it's own section, and since everyone will bitch if I dont dicusss it on the talk page, here you go! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dharmabatteries ( talk • contribs)
this was under Commerce raiders
Aaron also likes to look at his mama Aaron likes to look at men. fixed —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.246.213.116 ( talk) 22:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC).
We should add a little about pirate slang, like how they called cannons guns, what the seven seas were, and what shiver me timbers means and stuff like that The Clydelishes Clyde 01:04, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
“These Slavs relieved the old Illyrian pirateeering habits and often raided the Adriatic Sea. Already in 642 they invaded southern Italia and assaulted Siponte in Benevento.”
What does “relieved” mean? Should it be “relived”? It still doesn’t sound grammatically correct. I tried to fix this but the page was locked.
“Revived”?
It means to highten the effect of or to relieve someone of a duty.
I came here looking specifically for information on what many call 'software piracy' and how it's related to, but not necessarily the same thing as 'copyright infringement'.
Seems that these days, people looking up 'piracy' are likeing coming from the context of software or the RIAA moreso that swashbucklers. Perhaps this should be made more clear at the top of the article: Looking for SOFTWARE PIRACY?...
156.98.171.81 23:20, 3 January 2007 (UTC)darrel 01/03/2007
Why do movies glamourize Pirates and make them seem not as dangerous as they really are? Movies put it in a child's head that Pirates are cool and not the dangerous criminals they really are in our world today. 12/05/2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.70.105.48 ( talk) 04:10, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Over at the Treasure map article, I have been working hard to expand it. Several reliable references claim that no pirate treasure maps exist, but I'm not so sure anymore. I don't know how closely watched the article is, but it seems like an important one. While that article is shaping up to not focus solely on pirate treasure maps, those really seem to be where most of the interest lies. Do any pirate aficionados know of any real cases of pirate treasure maps? The Captain Kidd map and other maps about Oak Island come to mind, but it's hard to cut through the garbage and know what is real, and what is bogus. Some of the new information on the Treasure map article might also do well in the main pirate article. PMHauge 04:08, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
All historians I've seen who have commented on the subject say there are no pirate treasure maps. Now, pirates were illogical sometimes, but they weren't about to take all the treasure that they've worked so hard for and go onto a barren island and sail away! They'd immediately demand a share of the treasure so they could go off to the taverns and brothels and have a good time for a bit! Then, when they ran out of money, they'd set sail again to go steal more. ( Nick31091 03:23, 19 June 2007 (UTC))
I've found evidence of a few pirates burying their treasure, but no evidence at all that they then made maps to it. It is unknown whether Kidd, Blackbeard, Low, or Rackham made maps to their buried treasure, or if they just buried it at a memorable landmark that they knew they could find again. Incidentally, while there may be something buried at Oak Island, there's no real reason to believe that pirates did it. Pirate Dan 16:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Where does this article get its etymology of the word "pirate"? Online Etymology Dictionary derives it quite differently, but from the same Greek root. According to that site, peirates is from the verb peiran, meaning to attack. That makes a LOT more sense than the explanation given here. Chalkieperfect 00:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Um... They're both right: the etymology is just longer than either accounts for, and includes both steps. Peiran ('to attack)' is itself derived from peira ('trial, attempt, endeavour'). Classical Latin Pirata is derived from Hellenistic Greek Pirates, which is derived from peiran. The whole 'finding luck on the sea' bit is wrong though. 'Peiran' has nothing particularly sea-based about it, it's via 'trying your luck' or 'making an attempt on' in any context. Or so says the OED, and I always believe the OED. It is important to remember that sense has nothing to do with etymology, and that judging the validity of derivations on the grounds of sense almost inevitably leads us into error.
io:Pirateso Thank you, João Xavier, user of Ido Wikipedia.
I do Wikipedia whenever i can because she satisfies me <3
I'm not familiar with the conventions for this, but etymology information now appears both in the introduction and in its own section. Should they be consolidated? Dan Zollman ( talk) 05:46, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Because we are missing references this article reads more like a historic story and can be seen as a possible POV. Try working on more sources. -- CyclePat 20:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
My Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (10th ed.) supports the current article's derivation of freebooter from Dutch "vrijbuiter," meaning a taker of free booty. However, Angus Konstam's Pirates: 1660-1730 says that the term derives from "fly-boat" (French flibotes), a popular vessel of French pirates and privateers.
Is there a consensus on this point? Or should we include both etymologies in the article? -- Pirate Dan 13:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
OK, OED again. It suggests that the origin of freebooter is definitely in the Dutch 'vrijbuiter', the earliest known usage being 'frebetters.' 'Flibotes' is itself seperately derived from the dutch 'vlieboot'. Comparison of 'freeboot' and 'flibote' may however have influenced the formation of 'filibuster', primarily derived from 'vrijbuiter,' moving via the form 'flibutor', of which only a single example survives. Then again, it may not have, 'filibuster' may come direct from the Dutch, and 'flibutor' may be a dead-end. With words, who can tell? P.S.: The OED is way better than Miriam Webster. I love the OED.
Sorry, to sound odd, but to me it seems that the following part really doesn't fit in this section, and is more just an attempt to laud a local hero/legend. I just didn't feel comfortable outright deleting it, tho. The portion I am refering to I have copied below:
One of the later famous pirates of the Caribbean was Roberto Cofresí Ramirez de Arellano (1791-1825). He was put to death for his crimes in Puerto Rico at the Castle of San Felipe del Morro. His romantic legend inspires plays and songs on the island.
Thanach 14:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Roberto Cofresi is definitely not famous enough to be worthy of special mention; the number of people who've heard of him outside Puerto Rico can probably be counted on one finger. As opposed to Blackbeard, La Salle, Black Bart, Henry Morgan, etc.
-- Ivantheshifty 09:22, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I was looking for information on contemporary piracy in the carribean. Although pirates are not as prevalent in the carribean as around the malacca straits they do exist and are a problem. They tend to target privately craft rather than commercial vessels. Can anyone tell me any more? I am doing a dissertation on piracy and terrorism and could eventually contribute something to this article I guess. scruffylonghairedguy@gmail.com 82.39.97.202 21:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering if vikings should be included as pirates. Obviously they plundered Europe, but they often did so under the authority of the Scandinavian nobles. Any thoughts? 200.82.223.63 05:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I'd say no. You answered your own question - they had authority. 19:41, 10 January 2008 (UTC)Surfbruddah —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.247.6 ( talk)
the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, I believe, refers to them as pirates - although I do not know what the word is in Old English Streona ( talk) 15:41, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I found a site that shows the "mythtory" of pirate flags, and the ones the actual pirates used. Maybe we should change some of the wikipedia articles? BonaAdenture.org.uk Wobblies 12:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
"Unlike traditional Western societies of the time, many pirate clans operated as limited democracies, demanding the right to elect and replace their leaders."
Why pick on Western societies? I suspect the comment applies to pretty much every society of the time (the "classical period" of piracy).
The sections "Life as a pirate" and "Brain Damage" are entirely uncited twaddle and generally violate the
NPOV policy. Does anyone mind if I remove them or savagely edit them? --
Ossipewsk (
talk) 23:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
The "Brain Damage" section is wild, incredibly unlikely speculation unsupported by any proof. The rational of bad food being a reason for alcoholism is just unfounded nonsense. I pulled the section out. Oooops! It's back. Someone is defending it for no good reason. Oh well, I'm not going to waste more time on it. Let those dumb enough to believe it go ahead and believe it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.26.52.125 ( talk) 05:36, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
"To fill the warships, officers would forcibly pressgang boys and young men to replace lost crew." - not sure what to edit exactly, but that makes it sound like pressganging was the only way crew were replaced, which it certainly wasn't, and isn't "forcibly" redundant if you say they are pressganged anyway?
Auto98uk (
talk) 12:43, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Not all pressganging was forcible. Just as often, pressgangs would try to bribe potential recruits with higher wages. Or just get them to sign a contract while drunk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.56.61.70 ( talk) 19:07, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I edited the comment that read as follows
"While boats off the coasts of North America and the Mediterranean Sea are still assailed by pirates, the Royal Navy and the U.S. Coast Guard have nearly eradicated piracy in U.S. waters and the Caribbean Sea."
to read
"While boats off the coasts of North Africa and the Mediterranean Sea are still assailed by pirates, the Royal Navy and the U.S. Coast Guard have nearly eradicated piracy in U.S. waters and the Caribbean Sea."
the statement conflicted itself and was not accurate. 84.254.189.64 04:00, 13 July 2007 (UTC) too lazy to register
Shouldn't both sides of pirate life be added then instead of solely focusing in western pirate life? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.170.206.20 ( talk) 11:46, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Merge with Maritime piracy.This article seems does not even seem to have so much as a footnote as to the controversy of the terminology of "piracy", and it goes far beyond the recent usage as a synonym for copyright infringement.historical usage has meant various types of thievery, and the act itself in general,even during the golden age of piracy, and some word origins don't even mention anything about the sea. Rodrigue 18:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Merge with Maritime piracy.According to several websites [4] [5], there are various origins for the term, and not all include the concept of the sea. 64.229.200.174 19:58, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Oppose Even though this has been closed, I disagree. The main deffintion of the word Piracy, as those websites 64.229.200.174 posted state, is in regards to Piracy on the sea. All of the other types of piracy have their own article. I don't believe someone looking for say, Pirate radio would be searching Piracy. If for some reason they do, there is a link at the top of the page to the disambiguation page. Also, one vote by a user who has never edited before cannot be considered a consensus. I am also going to be placing a link at the top that proposes this page be moved back to Piracy. Deflagro Contribs/ Talk 21:26, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Maritime Piracy → Piracy — I don't think a consensus was reached on the Merger — Deflagro Contribs/ Talk 21:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
There was not a consensus to move. At all. There already is an article at Maritime piracy so moving this to Maritime Piracy is just broken. I've restored it. That "piracy" existed for so long as just a redirect after this broken move indicates there isn't some more important meaning of "piracy" that people think of. SchmuckyTheCat
Piracy in East Asia
- Piracy in South East Asia began with the retreating Mongol Yuan fleet after the betrayal by their Sri Vijayan allies in the war with Majapahit. They preferred the junk, a ship using a more robust sail layout. Marooned navy officers, consisting mostly of Cantonese and Hokkien tribesmen, set up their small gangs near river estuaries, mainly to protect themselves. They recruited locals as common foot-soldiers known as 'lang' (lanun) to set up their fortresses. They survived by utilizing their well trained pugilists, as well as marine and navigation skills, mostly along Sumatran and Javanese estuaries. Their strength and ferocity coincided with the impending trade growth of the maritime silk and spice routes.
- However, the most powerful pirate fleets of East Asia were those of Chinese pirates during the mid- Qing dynasty. bla bla bla bla bla...
I don't know a lot about the history of Piracy in S.E. Asian but I know that
Hence, the existence of S.E pirates in Piracy in East Asia is meaningless, misleading, unrelated. I proposed two solution :
I prefer the first one. Separating the section. Kunderemp 18:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Furthermore, I found some issues with the Qing Period piracy information. Mainly, Zheng Yi did not inherit the fleet of his (very) distant cousin Zeng Qi. Rather, he built up his own fleet after returning from fighting in the Tay Son rebellion, and in 1805 he, along with 6 other pirates, signed an agreement creating a pirate coallition. He was not in charge of all of these fleets, just his Red Flag Fleet, but after his death, his wife Zheng Yi Sao seized control of the entire coallition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.35.167 ( talk) 19:18, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
I am not aware of any statistically significant analysis of the estimated losses attributed to piracy a year. I have seen wild estimates like that made in the cited Foreign Affairs article that are usually attributed to private security companies trying to scare customers into purchasing their services. I would request this estimate be removed until statistically significant proof can be cited. PirateHunter 15:50, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree it is very high and for this reason I cannt see why it is written on the pirate wiki that they have almost wiped out pirating, when in fact it is currently on the increase, with 24 ships pirated off of somalia in a 4 month period, opposed to the 44 over 12 months of the last year. Dosedmonkey —Preceding comment was added at 23:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Am I the only one that thinks it's odd that when it mentions walking the plank in this page, it claims it's a construct created by J M Barrie's Peter Pan, and yet when you click on the link to "walk the plank" it gives historical accounts of it dating back to the 18th century? Only one of these can be right. Either JM Barrie made it up for Peter Pan, or it's historically accurate. 207.68.250.128 23:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed the statement from the introduction that the Jolly ROger of the movies is the Calico Jack flag. The statement was inaccurate for several reasons.
1. There is no uniformity among Jolly Rogers shown in the movies.
2. The so-called Calico Jack flag is not the Jolly Roger most often shown in the movies; Calico Jack's putative Jolly Roger was a skull with crossed swords, but a skull with crossed bones appears more often in the movies. The crossed swords became cinematically popular only in the 1990s, with Cutthroat Island, with the theme continued into the 2000s by the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy.
3. There is no primary source evidence that the historical Calico Jack Rackham ever actually flew a skull with crossed swords flag. The design attributed to him appears only in secondary sources.
Pirate Dan 14:29, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
The article Golden Age of Piracy consists of few paragraphs of history (that would fit into the Caribbean section of this one) plus a half dozen names. Seems to have little of significance that couldn't easily be squeezed in here. Hult041956 00:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Another merge tag (this one from Maritime piracy) has been on this article since February. That article is almost a stub/definition and just points back to this one in its See Also section. Any interest in fixing that situation? Hult041956 18:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Please write what area you are from Ashleydhs ( talk) 18:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC) Ashley
hi no one knows me but i am doing a inquiry on piratres and i was woundering if you could give me some informationon on pirates like what makes them real,how are they real,are they even real no affents but i realy need this information like as soon as you can give it to me so my qwestion here is are pirates real if they are can you tell my what makes them real
Hi, we would know you if you signed your post with four ~ characters after your edit :-) No offense,but you can get the answer to your questions by reading the article - which is the beauty of an encyclopedia Good Skoda ( talk) 21:11, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
As vandal-like my edits may seem to piracy about the barrel. It turns out that it is a true occurance. My English teacher first told my class about the barrel and now I looked up the saying "your turn in the barrel" and it turned out that it is legitimate. I hope you switch back my edit because it is the strange, but verifiable, truth. Moose4545 ( talk) 15:52, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
I was looking at the Famous historical pirates/privateers, and I noticed that Horuk Barborossa wasn't in here. I read about him in this one book about piracy and he seemed to be a pretty famous pirate (desserving enough to have his own chapter). Please take him into consideration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.85.232.249 ( talk) 01:09, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
No, this guy was Muslim not Italian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.85.232.249 ( talk) 05:34, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Guess thats the guy. Maybe my book has the english spelling of his name.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.85.232.249 ( talk • contribs) 02:11, December 24, 2007
The result of the consensus was to delete the section Deflagro C/ T
I think this section should be deleted. It is often a target of vandalism (IPs adding their own names, etc), it's getting longer with non-famouse people on it (I think soon enough there will be every pirate article on Wikipedia in it), and there is already a list on {{ Pirates}} at the bottom of the page. So there isn't really a point for the section, and it's becoming more trouble then it helps. (I'm not talking about List of Fictional Pirates). Thanks! Deflagro C/ T 16:48, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Drake should not be under the famous pirates, beacuse he was a knight in the name of Queen Elizabeth and was a priviteer for England. Also he served as Vice admiral to the Royal Navy. Only the spanish concedered him as a pirate, but by your vague diffintion of piracy he is in fact not a pirate.
-- Crayonman ( talk) 02:48, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
My reading of the Wiki article on Barbarossa leads me to understand that he was essentially a military general, an admiral of a large maritime military force which was essentially unparalelled in ITs time in the Mediterrannean.... the conquering of islands and coastal cities by his fleet was consistently under the auspices of official "green lights" from the Ottoman regime, and was even viewed as a liberation and saving grace by Muslims under the thrall of Spain.... i would edit the Piracy article to indicate that Barbarossa was not marauding for the sake of looting and riches, but i am not allowed to edit IT at this time, so i am hoping that someone reading this with the power to do so will edit in a short aside in the "Corsairs" and "Barbary Pirates" sections to indicate the specific nature of Barbarossa's military actions.... Thank you!
Eric Pasquier has forty photographs of modern pirates of the South China Sea. Several of his photos were showcased in the May 2000 article Crime Waves by Nick Ryan for the Royal Geographical Society's Geographical magazine. Perhaps someone might be interested in using one of these photos in the article? Contact Eric Pasquier for permission. Adraeus ( talk) 02:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Lady pirates are the fiered. THEY RULE!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.69.71.63 ( talk) 18:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
"Pirates sometimes evade pursuers by sailing into waters controlled by their enemies."
Now, that sounded ambiguous to me, even though the meaning was clear: pirates will escape into the coastal waters of their pursuer's enemy, thereby preventing the pursuers from catching them. However, it could be misread as thought it were saying pirates would flee into coastal waters controlled by THEIR enemies, which obviously makes no logical sense.
Therefore, I changed the above sentence in the article to:
"Pirates sometimes evade capture by sailing into waters controlled by their pursuer's enemies."
I think that will clear up any possible misinterpretations, and I can't imagine why it ought to be reverted in any way. I just couldn't help but change it.
Thanks.
68.43.93.253 ( talk) 04:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC) Rex Reinhard
Did pirates ever really use this catchphrase? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.212.113.110 ( talk) 20:29, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
"While boats off the coasts of North Africa and the Mediterranean Sea are still assailed by pirates, the Royal Navy and the U.S. Coast Guard have nearly eradicated piracy in U.S. waters and in the Caribbean Sea." --- no citation !!
This seems to be POV (some Royal Navy/ US coast guard afficionado ?) and needs an edit. Though cases of yacht piracy have been reported in the Mediterrenean (there is no other form of piracy in these waters), this particular form of piracy seems to be much more of a problem in the Caribbean.
http://www.sailingahead.com/vacations/high-risk-piracy.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.171.168.80 ( talk) 14:31, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
I have a problem with the following statement. "Due to modern piracy's status as basically robbery mixed with violence, filmmakers do not commonly depict modern pirates in movies (with Piraty XX veka, Six Days Seven Nights, and The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou being rare exceptions)."
This seems to be an assumption with no citation. Piracy has always been robbery mixed with violence so why is modern piracy any different than piracy during the "Golden age of piracy" in regards to being depicted in film. I am going to remove it if no one objects. Azn Clayjar ( talk) 14:49, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
I added Chevalier de Grammont to the list of famous pirates, but there does not seem to be an article about him on Wikipedia. If I get a chance, I'll have to do some research on him and create an article, as he was a pretty important player among Caribbean pirates. PirateJohn ( talk) 07:20, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
HEY- JACK SPARROW IS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER- NOT A HISTORICAL PIRATE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.67.187.103 ( talk) 17:15, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
It might make sense that there should be a separate article for modern piracy, it seems that, especially the "recent incidents" section, is getting long. zafiroblue05 | Talk 21:45, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello. I am from the city of Payette, ID, and i am in the school of which our theme is pirates. sincerely, C.R.
I've heard that rape (along with the other crimes listed in this article) was one of the crimes committed by pirates during the exodus of south vietnamese during the Vietnam war. To quote the article Boat people, "There were untold miseries, rapes and murders on the South China Sea committed by Thai pirates who preyed on the refugees who had sold all their possessions and carried gold with them on the trips." It might be in the article, but I skimmed/searched and I saw nothing about it. It's not that I want to be a downer, but I think it deserves lipservice out of a sign of respect for victims. Does anyone have an opinion on this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.103.13.145 ( talk) 08:50, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
We have Category:Privateer ships, which I am not sure is inclusive of all pirate's ships. Further, perhaps we could use a category for ships targeted and captured by the pirates, but necessarily used by them for further piracy? Ex. the MV Sirius Star from current news.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:25, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
On 19 November 2008, the Indian Navy reported that this time she had come under attack from pirates. In reaction the INS Tabar crew then requested the pirate vessel stop to allow a search, but the pirates responded with a threat to sink the INS Tabar if it came any closer. The pirates then opened fire on the INS Tabar and the Indians consequently responded in like measure. After the retaliatory strike, it was reported that a large explosion occurred on the pirate vessel, rumoured to be a result of the pirates' arms cache. As the attack continued for about three-four more hours, the successful retaliation resulted in the sinking of the pirate's "mother ship." The INS Tabar also forced the abandonment of another pirate vessel, while several pirates managed to escape via a speedboat under the cover of darkness.[5] Recalling the incident to media persons, an Indian naval spokesman, Commander Nirad Sinha, said that the "INS Tabar encountered a pirate vessel south west of Oman with two speedboats in tow. This vessel was similar in description to the 'mother vessel' mentioned in various piracy bulletins. INS Tabar closed in on the vessel and asked her to stop for investigation. Pirates were seen roaming on the upper deck of the vessel with guns and rocket propelled grenade launchers. The vessel continued threatening calls and subsequently fired upon INS Tabar."[6][7][8]
From November 2 - 19, Indian naval operations in the area, led by the INS Tabar successfully escorted approximately 35 ships, including many non-Indian flagged vessels, safely during the transit through these pirate-infested waters.
Whoever is the maker of this page, please put this in recent incidents. This is the latest incident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.200.96.6 ( talk) 06:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
In the intro, I changed "foreign nonstate actor" to "nonstate actor." Piracy can definitely be committed by someone not a foreigner: Stede Bonnet's and Blackbeard's crew were convicted of piracy for robbing their fellow British subjects, so they weren't "foreign" actors in relation to their victims. 13:55, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
I think the part of this article regarding the law of piracy could be added to, and I have a couple of books and a lot of articles on this subject. But one of the sources I'd want to cite would be something I wrote. I read through the conflict of interest section, and it said to announce that you might have a conflict of interest. I guess this is not necessarily a conflict of interest, I just don't want it to look like I'm secretly adding references to my own work. So just a heads up. I may start expanding that section rapidly over this coming weekend. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.32.196.236 ( talk) 02:44, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps it can be mentioned that vessels can protect themselves against piracy by implementing Vessel boarding protection the systems (hot water wall, electricity-charged water wall [1]) eg from secure marine can be mentioned. In addition, robotic or remote-controlled USV's are also sometimes used. [2]
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
87.66.48.4 (
talk) 08:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
I think the external links section needs cleaning-up. It has good links from credited sources but what about the mariner's points of view. There are excellent maritime blogs like EagleSpeak that give daily reports on piracy and a few professional mariner forums that have discussions by ship captains on maritime security. gCaptain.com comes to mind but it's mostly gives the American perspective and there are a few others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.148.52.55 ( talk) 06:56, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
"Pirate ship" redirects here. Should there be a link to Pirate ship (ride) at the top of this article, or should "Pirate ship" redirect to "Pirate ship (ride)" and there be a link to this article at the top of that page? 86.141.120.18 ( talk) 09:38, 2 September 2009 (UTC)