Pap of Armenia has been listed as one of the
History good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: December 15, 2022. ( Reviewed version). |
A fact from Pap of Armenia appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 18 January 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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The tone of this article needs to be significantly reworked on. Of course history is not entirely objective, but this article gives off a very pro-Roman and pro-Church vibe ("Pap proved a dissolute and unworthy ruler" St. Nerses I article), painting Pap as an 'evil' figure rather than recognizing him as an almost tragic figure, victim of his own great ambitions and designs.
In order to understand Pap's actions one must take into account the backdrop under which he was operating and in order to do this one needs to have a grasp of the social, cultural, religious, and political life of the Armenian kingdom at that point.
For instance, his poisoning of the Catholicos was motivated by more than merely 'evilness'. The Armenian Apostolic Church at that point in Armenia's history played a major and sometimes unwilling and obstructive role in the development of Armenia's politics and military. Firstly, they played a much more influential political role than suggested in these articles, in manipulating and orchestrating Armenia's political positions in regards to their neighbors, and, secondly, such large numbers of army-age men were being drafted into the monasteries that, in addition to already paying costly tributes to its powerful neighboring kingdoms, Armenia's war-capable demographic was being depleted at a severe cost (one which threatened Armenia's independence).
Well, this is what happens when you have one person write all the Armenian history articles on here. If I do get the time I will try to commit myself to contributing on many of these articles which are in dire shape, but nonetheless at least they are here and my thanks to everyone who has contributed time to these articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.166.238.146 ( talk) 11:37, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
In the article of his mother Pharantzem is written that he is born in 360 (what seems reasonable). So in 370 he was only ten years old en gives him little power. ( Peluba ( talk) 08:07, 3 March 2021 (UTC))
@ Revolution Saga: Hello. I think we should be careful with using P'awstos Buzand / Faustus of Byzantium, as he is a primary source ( WP:PST, WP:PRIMARY). For example, M. L. Chaumont does not support the statement that Mushegh reconquered lost territory from Albania as mentioned in the article ("Meanwhile, sparapet Mushegh restored Armenia's former borders, brutally punishing the provinces that had revolted against the Arsacid monarchy, forcing the pro-Persian nakharars to submit to royal authority, and retaking territories from neighboring Albania and Iberia.")
Here is what Chaumont says in his Iranica article [1];
"The more or less self-interested loyalty of the Albanians explains why the Sasanians helped them to seize from the Armenians the provinces (or districts) of Uti (with the towns of Xałxał and Pʿartaw), Šakašēn, Kołṭʿ, Gardman, and Arcʿax (Pʿawstos Biwzand, History 5.12, 13, in Langlois, Collection I, p. 288; idem, Armenian Geography, tr. A. Soukry, Venice, 1881, p. 39; cf. Markwart, Ērānšahr, p. 118; H. S. Anassian, “Mise au point relative à l’Albanie caucasienne,” Revue des études arméniennes 6, 1969, pp. 306ff.). These territories were to remain in the possession of Albania; a reconquest by Mušeł (cf. Pʿawstos, ibid.) was unlikely." HistoryofIran ( talk) 00:58, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Iazyges ( talk · contribs) 14:37, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Toolbox |
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GA Criteria
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GA Criteria:
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Please note that almost all of these are suggestions, and can be implemented or ignored at your discretion. Any changes I deem necessary for the article to pass GA standards I will bold.
The result was: promoted by
Cielquiparle (
talk) 20:35, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Revolution Saga ( talk) and Dallavid ( talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke ( talk) at 18:06, 19 December 2022 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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QPQ: Done. |
Overall: @ Onegreatjoke: I like ALT2 the most, so I hope that's what will appear on the Main Page. Before I promote this hook, I'm going to need you to provide specific citations for the main hook and ALT1. Unlimitedlead ( talk) 16:53, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
Pap of Armenia has been listed as one of the
History good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: December 15, 2022. ( Reviewed version). |
A fact from Pap of Armenia appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 18 January 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The tone of this article needs to be significantly reworked on. Of course history is not entirely objective, but this article gives off a very pro-Roman and pro-Church vibe ("Pap proved a dissolute and unworthy ruler" St. Nerses I article), painting Pap as an 'evil' figure rather than recognizing him as an almost tragic figure, victim of his own great ambitions and designs.
In order to understand Pap's actions one must take into account the backdrop under which he was operating and in order to do this one needs to have a grasp of the social, cultural, religious, and political life of the Armenian kingdom at that point.
For instance, his poisoning of the Catholicos was motivated by more than merely 'evilness'. The Armenian Apostolic Church at that point in Armenia's history played a major and sometimes unwilling and obstructive role in the development of Armenia's politics and military. Firstly, they played a much more influential political role than suggested in these articles, in manipulating and orchestrating Armenia's political positions in regards to their neighbors, and, secondly, such large numbers of army-age men were being drafted into the monasteries that, in addition to already paying costly tributes to its powerful neighboring kingdoms, Armenia's war-capable demographic was being depleted at a severe cost (one which threatened Armenia's independence).
Well, this is what happens when you have one person write all the Armenian history articles on here. If I do get the time I will try to commit myself to contributing on many of these articles which are in dire shape, but nonetheless at least they are here and my thanks to everyone who has contributed time to these articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.166.238.146 ( talk) 11:37, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
In the article of his mother Pharantzem is written that he is born in 360 (what seems reasonable). So in 370 he was only ten years old en gives him little power. ( Peluba ( talk) 08:07, 3 March 2021 (UTC))
@ Revolution Saga: Hello. I think we should be careful with using P'awstos Buzand / Faustus of Byzantium, as he is a primary source ( WP:PST, WP:PRIMARY). For example, M. L. Chaumont does not support the statement that Mushegh reconquered lost territory from Albania as mentioned in the article ("Meanwhile, sparapet Mushegh restored Armenia's former borders, brutally punishing the provinces that had revolted against the Arsacid monarchy, forcing the pro-Persian nakharars to submit to royal authority, and retaking territories from neighboring Albania and Iberia.")
Here is what Chaumont says in his Iranica article [1];
"The more or less self-interested loyalty of the Albanians explains why the Sasanians helped them to seize from the Armenians the provinces (or districts) of Uti (with the towns of Xałxał and Pʿartaw), Šakašēn, Kołṭʿ, Gardman, and Arcʿax (Pʿawstos Biwzand, History 5.12, 13, in Langlois, Collection I, p. 288; idem, Armenian Geography, tr. A. Soukry, Venice, 1881, p. 39; cf. Markwart, Ērānšahr, p. 118; H. S. Anassian, “Mise au point relative à l’Albanie caucasienne,” Revue des études arméniennes 6, 1969, pp. 306ff.). These territories were to remain in the possession of Albania; a reconquest by Mušeł (cf. Pʿawstos, ibid.) was unlikely." HistoryofIran ( talk) 00:58, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Iazyges ( talk · contribs) 14:37, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Toolbox |
---|
GA Criteria
|
---|
GA Criteria:
|
Please note that almost all of these are suggestions, and can be implemented or ignored at your discretion. Any changes I deem necessary for the article to pass GA standards I will bold.
The result was: promoted by
Cielquiparle (
talk) 20:35, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Revolution Saga ( talk) and Dallavid ( talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke ( talk) at 18:06, 19 December 2022 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
---|
|
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: @ Onegreatjoke: I like ALT2 the most, so I hope that's what will appear on the Main Page. Before I promote this hook, I'm going to need you to provide specific citations for the main hook and ALT1. Unlimitedlead ( talk) 16:53, 20 December 2022 (UTC)