This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
The text says "With the Panther-Wotan Line, Hitler indicated a desire to return to attrition warfare ..." Was attrition warfare a viable plan at that time?
Fconaway (
talk)
06:53, 26 February 2012 (UTC)reply
Large parts of the article were garbage. After the Germans no longer had the strength to go on the offensive in 1943 (after Kursk), they shifted over to the defensive. The hope was that the Soviets could be held behind the natural barrier of the Dneiper river and that other parts of the front could establish strong positions around natural formations. There was no plan for "attrition warfare" as such. The plan was generally to avoid fighting the soviets on the open steppe and to stabilize the the front in the south which had been falling back since Stalingrad. It wasn't a bad plan in general. But the need to defend the Crimea led them to try and hold a line away from the river and that failed.
The ultimate failure of the line was the inability to resist Soviet attempts to cross the river. Once the Soviets were over the river and dug in, it proved almost impossible to drive them out. The river was so long, it wasn't possible to stop them crossing somewhere.
They were not trying to re-create trench warfare or do "attrition" or any of the other nonsense people say. If they had not defended the lines, they probably would have been rolled up and destroyed on the open steppe.
75.106.146.89 (
talk)
22:58, 2 July 2015 (UTC)reply
You might not consider "Fortress Third Reich" by Kaufmann (2003) to be a reliable source, but it does state, on page 282: "General Kuchler, before being releived of command of Army Group North, was so concerned that such names as 'Panther Line' would make the troops place too much confidence in the strength of the positions, that he forbade the use of the name on his front in January 1944, two months before actually occupying the line". There are referenced texts listed in the bibliography, but the source for the above isn't stated.
On page 275 it says: "In the sectors along the front of Army Group North and Army Group Center this line was given the name of the Panther Line"
On page 326 there is a map showing the major fortifications on the Eastern Front, the north of the East Wall is called the Panther Line, whilst the south is called the Wotan Line
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
The text says "With the Panther-Wotan Line, Hitler indicated a desire to return to attrition warfare ..." Was attrition warfare a viable plan at that time?
Fconaway (
talk)
06:53, 26 February 2012 (UTC)reply
Large parts of the article were garbage. After the Germans no longer had the strength to go on the offensive in 1943 (after Kursk), they shifted over to the defensive. The hope was that the Soviets could be held behind the natural barrier of the Dneiper river and that other parts of the front could establish strong positions around natural formations. There was no plan for "attrition warfare" as such. The plan was generally to avoid fighting the soviets on the open steppe and to stabilize the the front in the south which had been falling back since Stalingrad. It wasn't a bad plan in general. But the need to defend the Crimea led them to try and hold a line away from the river and that failed.
The ultimate failure of the line was the inability to resist Soviet attempts to cross the river. Once the Soviets were over the river and dug in, it proved almost impossible to drive them out. The river was so long, it wasn't possible to stop them crossing somewhere.
They were not trying to re-create trench warfare or do "attrition" or any of the other nonsense people say. If they had not defended the lines, they probably would have been rolled up and destroyed on the open steppe.
75.106.146.89 (
talk)
22:58, 2 July 2015 (UTC)reply
You might not consider "Fortress Third Reich" by Kaufmann (2003) to be a reliable source, but it does state, on page 282: "General Kuchler, before being releived of command of Army Group North, was so concerned that such names as 'Panther Line' would make the troops place too much confidence in the strength of the positions, that he forbade the use of the name on his front in January 1944, two months before actually occupying the line". There are referenced texts listed in the bibliography, but the source for the above isn't stated.
On page 275 it says: "In the sectors along the front of Army Group North and Army Group Center this line was given the name of the Panther Line"
On page 326 there is a map showing the major fortifications on the Eastern Front, the north of the East Wall is called the Panther Line, whilst the south is called the Wotan Line