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Why do we have so much on due weight in one paragraph? This lady's family and her whole home town disagree with her. The inhabitance of Betheleham, like all other Christians in Palestine have stated that Israel was the problem not them. In fact, less than two years ago she was on "60 Miniutes" stating how Israel was the problem as well. I don't see the point of having undue weight and pointless info so I have gone and removed it. AcidSnow ( talk) 00:00, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
This Wikipedia article is distorted by Orwellian magnitude. Nearly all Internet articles about Christian exodus from Palestine identify Muslim abuse of Christians as the main reason. The abuse includes intimidation, beatings, land theft, firebombing of churches and other Christian institutions, denial of employment, economic boycotts, torture, kidnapping, forced marriage, sexual harassment, and extortion. Palestinian Christians face severe repressions when they complain about the abuse, so they prefer not to talk about it. Khaled Abu Toameh is a Muslim journalist, and yet he confirms the Muslim abuse of Palestinian Christians. [1] On the other hand, this Wikipedia article completely ignores the Muslim abuse of Christians. The article says that "The vast majority of Palestinian Christians blame the exodus on Israel." [2] The reference points to Bernard Sabella's article. In fact, Sabella does not claim that Israel is the main reason for the exodus. He says: "But why do Christians leave at a higher rate than the rest of the population? The answer is not simple as it involves interrelated factors and their mutual effects on one another..." Sabella does not mention the Muslim abuse of Palestinian Christians because if he did, he would have to flee Bethlehem for his life. Sabella fears Muslims repressions so much that he does not even mention dhimmitude in a historical chapter about Muslim-Christian relations. One of the sources cited in this Wikipedia article is a Muslim propaganda outfit called Palestinian Centre for Research and Cultural Dialogue. Since Arafat took over administration of the Palestinian territories from Israel, the Christian population has dropped from 15 percent to 2 percent. If Palestinian Christians were fleeing Israeli oppression, why did they leave after the Israelis left? It makes no sense. The only way Israel has fed the exodus of Christians from the Middle East is by withdrawing from territories in Judea, Samaria, Gaza, southern Lebanon and elsewhere. When Israel administered those areas, Christian Arabs lived in safety and security. The truth is the Christian population in Israel has more than quadrupled since 1948 because Israel guarantees religious freedom to everyone. Quinacrine ( talk) 22:24, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
I believe the discussion lacks some important points.
Are there any statistics or insight into what countries most Palestinian Christians have been immigrating to in recent years? Are Jordan and Lebanon the chief countries they are settling in, or are they mostly moving to Europe and North America? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.26.97.221 ( talk) 15:45, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
What, exactly, is the argument made for not including this controversy over Gopstein in the article as it stands today? Why is it being removed? CoffeeWithMarkets ( talk) 03:28, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
Some editors have recently changed the scope of the article to "ethnic group", though previously the page described the "Christians of Palestine" (Palestinian Christians) as a religious affiliation of modern and historic Christian residents of Palestine. Considering a similar discussion of Maronite ethnicity (in Lebanon), i would like to invite @ Elie plus, George Al-Shami, FunkMonk, Attar-Aram syria, Al Ameer son, and Jonney2000: to express their opinion whether Palestinian Christians are an ethnicity or not. GreyShark ( dibra) 23:05, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
..., then continue from there. That's what I've always been taught. I mean the first sentence of the lead. It is a weird mix of as-of-yet wishful thinking (state), and overly narrow scope for the article. This is an encyclopedia, not a work of diplomacy - it should be dealing with realities, past or present. The term "Palestinian Christian" or "Christian Palestinian" certainly did exist before 1948. So if there has been agreed to separate West Bank and Gaza Christians from Christians in Israel (has that been agreed?), which can have some good and some bad arguments in its favour, that still doesn't mean separating them retroactively (pre-1948). I am sure @
Nishidani: can provide some good Mandate-period documents with the correct terminology - and maybe even some Late Ottoman ones. The Ottoman ones might show that "Palestinian Christians" is a term that only appeared during the Mandate, or maybe I'm very wrong, I don't know. N.b.: one can still create a definition independently from old terminology. But since the "History" chapter goes all the way back to Jesus, then
Palestine (region) is the geographical area of this article, not the
Palestinian Authority or the yet fictitious
State of Palestine. You can set in a heading "After 1948 in Israel" and put a "main" tag leading to "Israeli Arabs#Christians" and leave the rest empty, but any entity that gets split and diverges into separate entities, can only be separated AFTER the split. Either change the definition, or the range of the history chapter. But we have no "South Syrian/Levantine/Holy Land Christians" page, which would cover the topic and then some, so this one needs to be made more coherent. The definition is the essential step. Enjoy, I'm off to lesser minefields :-)
PS: Christian churches always tended to disregard current borders. Bishoprics and patriarchies cross state boundaries, and nominal sees exist long after the last Christian has disappeared from their territory. Not a good topic for "current affairs" editors. Arminden
Arminden (
talk)
19:04, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
It would be useful to have a section about Palestinian Christians in Chile. Sources I've seen state that Chile is home to more Palestinian Christians than any other country. Thus, a discussion of the Chilean perspective is absolutely essential for this article! But, at the moment there is only cursory mention of Chile. I don't have the expertise to write this section myself (without doing a lot of research), but there seems to be quite a lot of (Spanish language) literature available. OtterAM ( talk) 15:47, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
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I looked through WP:RS/N, and found three references to Christian Broadcasting Network:
It seems as if a couple of the editors who are most for keeping CBN, are editors who since have become banned (User:Fladrif, User:The Devil's Advocate). I suggest we remove the CBN source, as there are far, far better sources on Palestinian Christians, Huldra ( talk) 22:39, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No move after two weeks and a relisting. Cúchullain t/ c 15:04, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
Palestinian Christians →
Christianity in Palestine – Per
WP:CONSISTENCY with formula in most equivalent articles:
Islam in Palestine,
Ahmadiyya in Palestine,
Catholic Church in Palestine, etc. One might argue that there is a need for "Palestinian Christians", but until someone create these two different articles, if there is but one, the scope should be prioritised as Christianity in Palestine, isn't it?
PPEMES (
talk) 15:06, 14 May 2019 (UTC)--Relisting.
Cúchullain
t/
c
13:43, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
What is the source to such a number? GreyShark ( dibra) 18:30, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
The article gives a figure of 20% of all Palestinians being Palestinian Christian which is incorrect and the source provided with it is also irrelevant. Also, Ahed Tamimi isn't a Palestinian Christian so there is no reason for her to be included in the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.215.176.171 ( talk) 12:25, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Palestinian Christians has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Pierbattista Pizzaballa is the current Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem since 6 November 2020. [3] -- Habibicb ( talk) 01:48, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
References
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cite web}}
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Under 'Modern day', change the statement that the Latin Patriarchate is vacant and that Pierbattisa Pizzaballa is no longer the apostolic administrator but was appointed as the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem on 6 November 2020 by Pope Francis. Deanpaul545 ( talk) 22:55, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Why do we have so much on due weight in one paragraph? This lady's family and her whole home town disagree with her. The inhabitance of Betheleham, like all other Christians in Palestine have stated that Israel was the problem not them. In fact, less than two years ago she was on "60 Miniutes" stating how Israel was the problem as well. I don't see the point of having undue weight and pointless info so I have gone and removed it. AcidSnow ( talk) 00:00, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
This Wikipedia article is distorted by Orwellian magnitude. Nearly all Internet articles about Christian exodus from Palestine identify Muslim abuse of Christians as the main reason. The abuse includes intimidation, beatings, land theft, firebombing of churches and other Christian institutions, denial of employment, economic boycotts, torture, kidnapping, forced marriage, sexual harassment, and extortion. Palestinian Christians face severe repressions when they complain about the abuse, so they prefer not to talk about it. Khaled Abu Toameh is a Muslim journalist, and yet he confirms the Muslim abuse of Palestinian Christians. [1] On the other hand, this Wikipedia article completely ignores the Muslim abuse of Christians. The article says that "The vast majority of Palestinian Christians blame the exodus on Israel." [2] The reference points to Bernard Sabella's article. In fact, Sabella does not claim that Israel is the main reason for the exodus. He says: "But why do Christians leave at a higher rate than the rest of the population? The answer is not simple as it involves interrelated factors and their mutual effects on one another..." Sabella does not mention the Muslim abuse of Palestinian Christians because if he did, he would have to flee Bethlehem for his life. Sabella fears Muslims repressions so much that he does not even mention dhimmitude in a historical chapter about Muslim-Christian relations. One of the sources cited in this Wikipedia article is a Muslim propaganda outfit called Palestinian Centre for Research and Cultural Dialogue. Since Arafat took over administration of the Palestinian territories from Israel, the Christian population has dropped from 15 percent to 2 percent. If Palestinian Christians were fleeing Israeli oppression, why did they leave after the Israelis left? It makes no sense. The only way Israel has fed the exodus of Christians from the Middle East is by withdrawing from territories in Judea, Samaria, Gaza, southern Lebanon and elsewhere. When Israel administered those areas, Christian Arabs lived in safety and security. The truth is the Christian population in Israel has more than quadrupled since 1948 because Israel guarantees religious freedom to everyone. Quinacrine ( talk) 22:24, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
I believe the discussion lacks some important points.
Are there any statistics or insight into what countries most Palestinian Christians have been immigrating to in recent years? Are Jordan and Lebanon the chief countries they are settling in, or are they mostly moving to Europe and North America? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.26.97.221 ( talk) 15:45, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
What, exactly, is the argument made for not including this controversy over Gopstein in the article as it stands today? Why is it being removed? CoffeeWithMarkets ( talk) 03:28, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
Some editors have recently changed the scope of the article to "ethnic group", though previously the page described the "Christians of Palestine" (Palestinian Christians) as a religious affiliation of modern and historic Christian residents of Palestine. Considering a similar discussion of Maronite ethnicity (in Lebanon), i would like to invite @ Elie plus, George Al-Shami, FunkMonk, Attar-Aram syria, Al Ameer son, and Jonney2000: to express their opinion whether Palestinian Christians are an ethnicity or not. GreyShark ( dibra) 23:05, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
..., then continue from there. That's what I've always been taught. I mean the first sentence of the lead. It is a weird mix of as-of-yet wishful thinking (state), and overly narrow scope for the article. This is an encyclopedia, not a work of diplomacy - it should be dealing with realities, past or present. The term "Palestinian Christian" or "Christian Palestinian" certainly did exist before 1948. So if there has been agreed to separate West Bank and Gaza Christians from Christians in Israel (has that been agreed?), which can have some good and some bad arguments in its favour, that still doesn't mean separating them retroactively (pre-1948). I am sure @
Nishidani: can provide some good Mandate-period documents with the correct terminology - and maybe even some Late Ottoman ones. The Ottoman ones might show that "Palestinian Christians" is a term that only appeared during the Mandate, or maybe I'm very wrong, I don't know. N.b.: one can still create a definition independently from old terminology. But since the "History" chapter goes all the way back to Jesus, then
Palestine (region) is the geographical area of this article, not the
Palestinian Authority or the yet fictitious
State of Palestine. You can set in a heading "After 1948 in Israel" and put a "main" tag leading to "Israeli Arabs#Christians" and leave the rest empty, but any entity that gets split and diverges into separate entities, can only be separated AFTER the split. Either change the definition, or the range of the history chapter. But we have no "South Syrian/Levantine/Holy Land Christians" page, which would cover the topic and then some, so this one needs to be made more coherent. The definition is the essential step. Enjoy, I'm off to lesser minefields :-)
PS: Christian churches always tended to disregard current borders. Bishoprics and patriarchies cross state boundaries, and nominal sees exist long after the last Christian has disappeared from their territory. Not a good topic for "current affairs" editors. Arminden
Arminden (
talk)
19:04, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
It would be useful to have a section about Palestinian Christians in Chile. Sources I've seen state that Chile is home to more Palestinian Christians than any other country. Thus, a discussion of the Chilean perspective is absolutely essential for this article! But, at the moment there is only cursory mention of Chile. I don't have the expertise to write this section myself (without doing a lot of research), but there seems to be quite a lot of (Spanish language) literature available. OtterAM ( talk) 15:47, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:18, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Palestinian Christians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 22:17, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
I looked through WP:RS/N, and found three references to Christian Broadcasting Network:
It seems as if a couple of the editors who are most for keeping CBN, are editors who since have become banned (User:Fladrif, User:The Devil's Advocate). I suggest we remove the CBN source, as there are far, far better sources on Palestinian Christians, Huldra ( talk) 22:39, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No move after two weeks and a relisting. Cúchullain t/ c 15:04, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
Palestinian Christians →
Christianity in Palestine – Per
WP:CONSISTENCY with formula in most equivalent articles:
Islam in Palestine,
Ahmadiyya in Palestine,
Catholic Church in Palestine, etc. One might argue that there is a need for "Palestinian Christians", but until someone create these two different articles, if there is but one, the scope should be prioritised as Christianity in Palestine, isn't it?
PPEMES (
talk) 15:06, 14 May 2019 (UTC)--Relisting.
Cúchullain
t/
c
13:43, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
What is the source to such a number? GreyShark ( dibra) 18:30, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
The article gives a figure of 20% of all Palestinians being Palestinian Christian which is incorrect and the source provided with it is also irrelevant. Also, Ahed Tamimi isn't a Palestinian Christian so there is no reason for her to be included in the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.215.176.171 ( talk) 12:25, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Palestinian Christians has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Pierbattista Pizzaballa is the current Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem since 6 November 2020. [3] -- Habibicb ( talk) 01:48, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)
![]() | This
edit request to
Palestinian Christians has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Under 'Modern day', change the statement that the Latin Patriarchate is vacant and that Pierbattisa Pizzaballa is no longer the apostolic administrator but was appointed as the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem on 6 November 2020 by Pope Francis. Deanpaul545 ( talk) 22:55, 28 February 2021 (UTC)