This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
@ EthiopianHabesha: You added back, "who comes from the Sidama country of Gammo" and "and a journal published by International African Institute even suggests it is an Oromo word (adopted by neighbours) for there is a word galla "wandering" in their language". I don't have a preference on whether to include or exclude this, but I find the wording difficult to parse and understand. Why is these contexts important to "Oromo people"? Your "even suggests" language feels like editorializing, something best avoided. If you clarify what is important about all this, we can collaboratively figure out a way to word it better. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 03:32, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
@ EthiopianHabesha:, @ Duqsene: The 1887 map not only shows GALLA in caps in the lower right area, it shows galla river and other details that are relevant to that section. I favor the map that was restored by @Duqsene for that reason. If there are other maps out there that are more Oromo-relevant and better meet MOS:IMAGES guidelines, by all means, let us pick the best two (for NPOV). Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 13:09, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Other than copyediting and adding reliable scholarly sources, I have removed sections on individuals that are covered in History of Ethiopia and royalty-related articles, leaving just a summary style paragraphs on these. That suffices here. Our focus in this article ought to be Oromo people and the history of this ethnic group. Further, for NPOV, the content should reflect "fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, the significant views that have been published by reliable sources" on this. The Aleksandr Bulatovich sourced para is weak, and needs a bit more WP:RS summary. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 03:55, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
Slavery was fundamental to the social, political and economic order of the northern savanna, Ethiopia and the East African coast for several centuries before 1600.
– Paul E Lovejoy, Professor, York University, Canada Research Chair in African Diaspora History [1]
References
@ EthiopianHabesha: you added back,
References
The source is dated 1816, and your summary claims "up to mid nineteenth century" which implies about 1850. The source does not use the word "Yejju". That is all OR, not in this source. The source is also very old, more recent scholarly secondary or tertiary source would be better. There seem to be additional misreading or misunderstanding of the sources you added after the Henry Salt source. Please explain, add RS, or check and revise appropriately. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 19:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello EthiopianHabesha, the map is not accurate and also not based on scholarly work, but please do show your evidence. - AlaskaLava, 20 January 2017
@EthiopianHabesha: The map AlaskaLava and Buckshot06 removed asserts 1420 "Oromo Confederation" boundaries, as well as many other details that none of your sources verify. Pankhurst book that you mention does not support this map, it raises questions. On page 137, for example, second last para, Pankhurst states that Gallas (Oromo) were south or "east" of Bale, that too "probably" and c. 1460. The map shows them south and "southwest" of Bale with misleading certainty. What is it in these sources that leads you to believe that the map verifies? Please note that a historic map by someone, say created between 14th and 20th century, one we can verify in an externally published source can be included, but as Buckshot06 explains above, a self-created map by a wiki user is OR unless we can verify it. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 20:15, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Ms Sarah Welch, checked the dates put on the map and they all seem to be accurate but if you propose another map, please let me know which source we take i.e. if you disagree with Richard Pankhurst. I think Richard's location is clear and said they were found south of Ganale Doria River [9]. If you could please let me know which source we should take then it's not going to be diffcult to draw a map, after all, all maps drawn before 18th century are not perfect and readers do understand that. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 11:12, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Buckshot06, what is realy the issue with the map if Richard said south of Genale Doria river and the map shows exactly according to what the scholar Richard Pankhurst said? I want to know the reason in case I can address them before I take it to
Request for comment so that other editors give their opinion. Earlier, you said Wikipedia is not
WP:NOTCENSORED so why should we censor Ricahrd's and other highly educated neutral and relevant scholar's hard work also saying south of Ganale or south of Bali sultanate? —
Buckshot06 — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
EthiopianHabesha (
talk •
contribs)
There is no metion of how the region was before 20th centuary and it's not fair to censor history and let people assume the region was peaceful contrary to what reliable sources say. For this reason I am proposing to include both the following paragraphs:
@ Ms Sarah Welch, if there is consensus to give readers balanced and complete information per WP:NPOV and WP:NOTCENSORED, then you may include this toned down history as well. Thanks — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 14:09, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Ms Sarah Welch, I think we need to clarify in regards to the importance of warfare before 20th century. See [25] Donald's conclusion for why the people in the region used to fight. Since all the reasons for fighting listed by Donald are also shared with other neighbouring ethnic-groups, I just simply summarised it generally instead of giving the impression that it only applies to Oromo. However, if you want to be specific and say Oromos fight for this and that reasons then you may see the rest of the sources provided above specifically saying they used to fight for the reasons listed by Donald. If you need more sources you may let me know. Thanks — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 14:02, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
References
Ms Sarah Welch, what do you think we should about page 135-136, censor that? Since it is related to division and inter-tribal fighting within the Oromo, related to the paragraph you just added (beginning with "The inter-tribal relationships within the Oromo people....."), then I added it there. May be we deal with this one first before discussing about Yejjus. The article is already large and it's pointless to have another paragraph just for discussing page 135-136 when we could just summarise and add them to this paragraph you added for discussing inter-tribal fighting, division, and fight with other ethnic-groups. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 15:34, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
I happened across the "Oromo people" page ... and noticed that what seems to be the same term seems to have two spellings: "Gadda" five times and "Gadaa" seven times.
Should there be only one spelling? If so, perhaps it should be corrected and consolidated into one spelling? (Or indicate that both spellings are equivalent and acceptable.)
If the different spellings indicate some difference in meaning, I did not see it. If so, perhaps that difference should be made clear.
Almadenmike ( talk) 19:51, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
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There are many full citations that are complete duplicates, even ones to the same page(s). I started unifying these duplicates, starting with Sorenson2001p41 or Sorenson2001p39. After an hour or so I had found that other sources were similarly duplicate-cited. I'm stopping now to get to sleep, but I will return to the task tomorrow and finish it. -- Thnidu ( talk) 05:08, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
@94.46.179.65: With this edit, you allege in your edit summary that the cited sources do not discuss "red" and "black" slaves. They do. Please see lines 20-32 of page 73, along with the context on pages 72-74 of the cited The Cambridge World History of Slavery, as one example. If you have concerns, please discuss them here. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 18:10, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
@94.46.179.75: Ok. I added a few more words to clarify. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 00:42, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Most Oromos follow either Islam (>60%) or Christianity (>30%). Fewer than 3% adhere to a traditional religion [43]. 94.46.179.65 ( talk) 16:46, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
2602:306:CFEA:170:A19F:9593:E6A0:BD26 ( talk) 02:58, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 22:53, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
At least some of the sections I've read (eg Religion) read as though written by a non-native English speaker. I don't have time to make emendations or rewrites at the moment, but I wanted to point out the issues I've enountered. 2600:1700:6560:1CA0:D5AF:FCCA:2B63:F674 ( talk) 02:44, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
Even though there is no total population of Oromo in USA, the largest Oromo community outside Africa found there. I wanted to put the known number of Oromo community in Minnesota. Is it possible to add population of Oromo of minnesota state in infobox under Regions with significant Population? (Sorry for my English) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maammee ( talk • contribs) 09:54, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
@ MfactDr: Hello thanks for the invitation, you added a source https://indianexpress.com/article/research/malik-ambar-aurangabad-mughals-jahangir-akbar-shivaji-6397143/, hoewever the source is contradictory and seems generally unreliable, it's speculative saying at one hand believed to be Oromo and on the other is from Habshi.
The archived source which was previously used states that he is from the extinct Maya group or Habashi [1] . Dawit S Gondaria ( talk) 14:16, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
References
This
edit request to
Oromo people has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please update the info box, the Oromo population in Ethiopia is estimated to be 55 Million. [44] Abdo1278 ( talk) 00:08, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
"Somaliland" is the traditional rival of the Oromo.
Mogadishu is simply a port.
137.59.221.36 ( talk)\~\\\\\\12:28, 9 December 2021 (UTC)\\~ 137.59.221.36 ( talk) 12:28, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
The "Gaada", "Calendar", "Oromumma", "Social Stratification" where temporarily put in a "Culture" topic. This was done because they were under the "Oromo Dishes" topic. If anyone has a better topic to put those things on, feel free to edit. -- Rory Kamau de Alencar Lourinho ( talk) 12:47, 24 June 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:1054:3015:ECC0:AC51:C0AF:BA1F:D898 ( talk)
WaterManEdit ( talk) 12:54, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Per consensus, no primary topic between the language and the people. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 17:10, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
– WP:Concise LeenchaOromia ( talk) 15:00, 20 January 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request ( permalink). – robertsky ( talk) 19:24, 21 January 2023 (UTC) —Requested move of associated dab. Rotideypoc41352 ( talk · contribs) 03:35, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
(copied from RM/TR) – robertsky ( talk) 19:24, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
@ EthiopianHabesha: You added back, "who comes from the Sidama country of Gammo" and "and a journal published by International African Institute even suggests it is an Oromo word (adopted by neighbours) for there is a word galla "wandering" in their language". I don't have a preference on whether to include or exclude this, but I find the wording difficult to parse and understand. Why is these contexts important to "Oromo people"? Your "even suggests" language feels like editorializing, something best avoided. If you clarify what is important about all this, we can collaboratively figure out a way to word it better. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 03:32, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
@ EthiopianHabesha:, @ Duqsene: The 1887 map not only shows GALLA in caps in the lower right area, it shows galla river and other details that are relevant to that section. I favor the map that was restored by @Duqsene for that reason. If there are other maps out there that are more Oromo-relevant and better meet MOS:IMAGES guidelines, by all means, let us pick the best two (for NPOV). Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 13:09, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Other than copyediting and adding reliable scholarly sources, I have removed sections on individuals that are covered in History of Ethiopia and royalty-related articles, leaving just a summary style paragraphs on these. That suffices here. Our focus in this article ought to be Oromo people and the history of this ethnic group. Further, for NPOV, the content should reflect "fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, the significant views that have been published by reliable sources" on this. The Aleksandr Bulatovich sourced para is weak, and needs a bit more WP:RS summary. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 03:55, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
Slavery was fundamental to the social, political and economic order of the northern savanna, Ethiopia and the East African coast for several centuries before 1600.
– Paul E Lovejoy, Professor, York University, Canada Research Chair in African Diaspora History [1]
References
@ EthiopianHabesha: you added back,
References
The source is dated 1816, and your summary claims "up to mid nineteenth century" which implies about 1850. The source does not use the word "Yejju". That is all OR, not in this source. The source is also very old, more recent scholarly secondary or tertiary source would be better. There seem to be additional misreading or misunderstanding of the sources you added after the Henry Salt source. Please explain, add RS, or check and revise appropriately. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 19:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello EthiopianHabesha, the map is not accurate and also not based on scholarly work, but please do show your evidence. - AlaskaLava, 20 January 2017
@EthiopianHabesha: The map AlaskaLava and Buckshot06 removed asserts 1420 "Oromo Confederation" boundaries, as well as many other details that none of your sources verify. Pankhurst book that you mention does not support this map, it raises questions. On page 137, for example, second last para, Pankhurst states that Gallas (Oromo) were south or "east" of Bale, that too "probably" and c. 1460. The map shows them south and "southwest" of Bale with misleading certainty. What is it in these sources that leads you to believe that the map verifies? Please note that a historic map by someone, say created between 14th and 20th century, one we can verify in an externally published source can be included, but as Buckshot06 explains above, a self-created map by a wiki user is OR unless we can verify it. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 20:15, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Ms Sarah Welch, checked the dates put on the map and they all seem to be accurate but if you propose another map, please let me know which source we take i.e. if you disagree with Richard Pankhurst. I think Richard's location is clear and said they were found south of Ganale Doria River [9]. If you could please let me know which source we should take then it's not going to be diffcult to draw a map, after all, all maps drawn before 18th century are not perfect and readers do understand that. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 11:12, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Buckshot06, what is realy the issue with the map if Richard said south of Genale Doria river and the map shows exactly according to what the scholar Richard Pankhurst said? I want to know the reason in case I can address them before I take it to
Request for comment so that other editors give their opinion. Earlier, you said Wikipedia is not
WP:NOTCENSORED so why should we censor Ricahrd's and other highly educated neutral and relevant scholar's hard work also saying south of Ganale or south of Bali sultanate? —
Buckshot06 — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
EthiopianHabesha (
talk •
contribs)
There is no metion of how the region was before 20th centuary and it's not fair to censor history and let people assume the region was peaceful contrary to what reliable sources say. For this reason I am proposing to include both the following paragraphs:
@ Ms Sarah Welch, if there is consensus to give readers balanced and complete information per WP:NPOV and WP:NOTCENSORED, then you may include this toned down history as well. Thanks — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 14:09, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Ms Sarah Welch, I think we need to clarify in regards to the importance of warfare before 20th century. See [25] Donald's conclusion for why the people in the region used to fight. Since all the reasons for fighting listed by Donald are also shared with other neighbouring ethnic-groups, I just simply summarised it generally instead of giving the impression that it only applies to Oromo. However, if you want to be specific and say Oromos fight for this and that reasons then you may see the rest of the sources provided above specifically saying they used to fight for the reasons listed by Donald. If you need more sources you may let me know. Thanks — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 14:02, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
References
Ms Sarah Welch, what do you think we should about page 135-136, censor that? Since it is related to division and inter-tribal fighting within the Oromo, related to the paragraph you just added (beginning with "The inter-tribal relationships within the Oromo people....."), then I added it there. May be we deal with this one first before discussing about Yejjus. The article is already large and it's pointless to have another paragraph just for discussing page 135-136 when we could just summarise and add them to this paragraph you added for discussing inter-tribal fighting, division, and fight with other ethnic-groups. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 15:34, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
I happened across the "Oromo people" page ... and noticed that what seems to be the same term seems to have two spellings: "Gadda" five times and "Gadaa" seven times.
Should there be only one spelling? If so, perhaps it should be corrected and consolidated into one spelling? (Or indicate that both spellings are equivalent and acceptable.)
If the different spellings indicate some difference in meaning, I did not see it. If so, perhaps that difference should be made clear.
Almadenmike ( talk) 19:51, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:39, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
There are many full citations that are complete duplicates, even ones to the same page(s). I started unifying these duplicates, starting with Sorenson2001p41 or Sorenson2001p39. After an hour or so I had found that other sources were similarly duplicate-cited. I'm stopping now to get to sleep, but I will return to the task tomorrow and finish it. -- Thnidu ( talk) 05:08, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
@94.46.179.65: With this edit, you allege in your edit summary that the cited sources do not discuss "red" and "black" slaves. They do. Please see lines 20-32 of page 73, along with the context on pages 72-74 of the cited The Cambridge World History of Slavery, as one example. If you have concerns, please discuss them here. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 18:10, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
@94.46.179.75: Ok. I added a few more words to clarify. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 00:42, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Most Oromos follow either Islam (>60%) or Christianity (>30%). Fewer than 3% adhere to a traditional religion [43]. 94.46.179.65 ( talk) 16:46, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
2602:306:CFEA:170:A19F:9593:E6A0:BD26 ( talk) 02:58, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 22:53, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
At least some of the sections I've read (eg Religion) read as though written by a non-native English speaker. I don't have time to make emendations or rewrites at the moment, but I wanted to point out the issues I've enountered. 2600:1700:6560:1CA0:D5AF:FCCA:2B63:F674 ( talk) 02:44, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
Even though there is no total population of Oromo in USA, the largest Oromo community outside Africa found there. I wanted to put the known number of Oromo community in Minnesota. Is it possible to add population of Oromo of minnesota state in infobox under Regions with significant Population? (Sorry for my English) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maammee ( talk • contribs) 09:54, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
@ MfactDr: Hello thanks for the invitation, you added a source https://indianexpress.com/article/research/malik-ambar-aurangabad-mughals-jahangir-akbar-shivaji-6397143/, hoewever the source is contradictory and seems generally unreliable, it's speculative saying at one hand believed to be Oromo and on the other is from Habshi.
The archived source which was previously used states that he is from the extinct Maya group or Habashi [1] . Dawit S Gondaria ( talk) 14:16, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
References
This
edit request to
Oromo people has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please update the info box, the Oromo population in Ethiopia is estimated to be 55 Million. [44] Abdo1278 ( talk) 00:08, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
"Somaliland" is the traditional rival of the Oromo.
Mogadishu is simply a port.
137.59.221.36 ( talk)\~\\\\\\12:28, 9 December 2021 (UTC)\\~ 137.59.221.36 ( talk) 12:28, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
The "Gaada", "Calendar", "Oromumma", "Social Stratification" where temporarily put in a "Culture" topic. This was done because they were under the "Oromo Dishes" topic. If anyone has a better topic to put those things on, feel free to edit. -- Rory Kamau de Alencar Lourinho ( talk) 12:47, 24 June 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:1054:3015:ECC0:AC51:C0AF:BA1F:D898 ( talk)
WaterManEdit ( talk) 12:54, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Per consensus, no primary topic between the language and the people. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 17:10, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
– WP:Concise LeenchaOromia ( talk) 15:00, 20 January 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request ( permalink). – robertsky ( talk) 19:24, 21 January 2023 (UTC) —Requested move of associated dab. Rotideypoc41352 ( talk · contribs) 03:35, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
(copied from RM/TR) – robertsky ( talk) 19:24, 21 January 2023 (UTC)