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According to this article, "hundreds of obelisks have been discovered" at Göbekli Tepe. That could make them among the oldest (if not the oldest) obelisks in the world. [1]
Can anyone verify the numbers given for quantities of obelisks in different countries? Everywhere i check I seem to get a different set of numbers. Notably [2], and [3] Pdefer | !! 03:43, 2004 Nov 25 (UTC)
I am sorry, but I cannot figure out how to post a message, so I shall resort to using that of others. I would simply like to bring to the attention of people that in the obelisk article, the two pictures are the same, yet they are labeled as different. Thank you.
For the Urbino obelisk, see Roberto Piperno's page, toward the bottom, and Carlitos Lunghi's page. Further details are given on my own site, (Platner, Obelisci Isei Campensis): notice that the Urbino obelisk is a reconstruction concocted from two authentic Egyptian obelisks. Bill 11:28, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Many war memorials in Britain are obelisk shaped, though most are not so tall that one would include them in a list of modern obelisks. The one in Southport, Lancashire that I just added to the list is particularly tall and impressive. It is the central focus of Lord Street, and is of an unusually grand scale for a provincial town. I took some photos of it today. DFH 21:31, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed the editorial comment, "You can do the research or cover this up too." which is not appropriate to include in the main article. I have retained the word "allegedly", but this still needs a source citing. DFH 21:45, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Many sources still cite the Washington Monument as the world's tallest obelisk. The San Jacinto Monument stands in the Guinness Book of World Records as the tallest monument column in the world, and it is 15 feet taller than the Washington Monument. I suppose that there may be some arguments as to what truly classes as an obelisk. The top of the San Jacinto is somewhat more ornate than a simple pyramid. DFH 18:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
It would be nice to see some information about the construction of obelisks (especially ancient Egyptian ones, but not only those). A good source is Nova's video about Egyptian obelisks. I could write a paragraph or two about that, if that would be appreciated.
Qbert203 04:59, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
This entry keeps coming and going; its been moved,deleted and replaced a number of times :-
"Obelisk is a progressive and melodic death metal band with female operatic elements from ballard washington.
band started in 1999 with Ryan Nairn on lead vocals and lead guitar.
myspace.com/obelisknorthwest".
Should it be kept? (It's currently deleted, I think)And if so, where? Opinions? Swanny18 16:31, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
This list is in danger of getting out of hand:
There are thousands of obelisks in Britain alone (every other graveyard or war memorial will have one); do we really want to list them all here?
How about a separate page for such a list, for the ones here now, and any new ones,
and some guidelines on what to include on this page (tallest, or oldest, from each country, maybe?).
Swanny18 (
talk) 17:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Also, I’ve put a note on the list in the page to say it’s in date order, as it really wasn’t clear at first; I was in the process of re-arrangeing them all before I realized. Swanny18 ( talk) 17:12, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
An explanation why an Egyptian symbol of sun worship has become so popular in the west would be interesting - particularly since sun worship is inherently pagan, and yet several of these things were erected in post-pagan Rome. Apparently there are some connections to freemasonry, particularly the Washington monument which was quite openly laid by freemasons. If someone could answer these questions and add some info it would be great. . —This unsigned comment was added by 41.245.144.80 ( talk • contribs) 00.07, 20 January 2008 .
My challenge to the article is that the Victory Monument in Bangkok is surely a notable example of a 20th Century obelisk. Also, the write up (in Wi 121.120.190.38 ( talk)kipedia) about this monument might have been designed to emphasise the virility of the facist Thai dictator of the time - because obelisks resemble erect penises. This "meaning" of obelisks might explain some erected in modern time by other authoritarian regimes. RW 121.120.190.38 ( talk) 15:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Why is the Arabic term for obelisk given in the lead? Seems strange to me. The only connection I can come up with is the fact that there are obelisks in Egypt, where they now speak Arabic... 76.208.120.38 ( talk) 03:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
(deleted nonsense added here by 213.98.99.60 from 5 March 2009. Swanny18 ( talk) 00:29, 6 July 2009 (UTC))
The lead image of this article seems to have changed since I was here last, with no discussion that I can see. The Wellington obelisk in Dublin is neither the largest, nor the oldest, nor the most attractive obelisk in the world; why is it in the lead now? Previously it was one of the Egyptian ones, which made far more sense. Is there any objection to changing it back? Swanny18 ( talk) 13:43, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
No other replies; we'll stick with Luxor, then.. Swanny18 ( talk) 12:08, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
I personally think that the photos in the article are a bit old. 190.231.115.25 ( talk) 02:16, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
this obelisk is probably Roman and not egyptian. any objection to relocating it's listing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.115.113.33 ( talk) 21:08, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
This section is too long in relation to the rest of the article - UNDUE WEIGHT, per Wiki MOS. It can be shortened to get to the conclusion of the method. Parkwells ( talk) 19:59, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
What exactly do obelisks symbolize? I heard that they're symbols for the phallus. Please someone tell me if this is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.116.30.231 ( talk) 03:57, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
Is the Angel de la Independencia in Mexico truly an obelisk? If it is, it will be the first time I've heard it referred to as such...and I've traveled to Mexico a couple of times. Further, just looking at the photo...it's a simple monument, like dozens all over Latin America, doesn't resemble an obelisk at all. 130.184.206.69 ( talk) 17:32, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
In section 1.1, Ancient obelisks, Egyptian, is the following two-sentence paragraph: "The Ancient Romans were strongly influenced by the obelisk form, to the extent that there are now more than twice as many obelisks standing in Rome as remain in Egypt. All fell after the Roman period except for the Vatican obelisk and were re-erected in different locations".
Because of the way the first sentence is worded ("...as remain in Egypt...") and because it is in section 1.1, it leaves the impression that there are more than twice as many ancient Egyptian obelisks standing in Rome as remain in Egypt, itself. (I assume that the contrast is meant to be with those that are standing in Egypt, itself.)
That is not true, as the list at the end of this same section attests. The paragraph should be rewritten, preferably by its author, so that it accurately says whatever it was intended to say. (There appear to be, in fact, exactly eight standing ancient Egyptian obelisks in Rome and also eight [not nine, see below] standing in Egypt.)
At the end of this same section are listed nine ancient Egyptian obelisks standing in Egypt, itself. The last of these (Senusret I, Faiyum) is, I believe, nonexistent. According to the Wikipedia article about him, Senusret I erected only two obelisks, both near the temple at Re-Atum in Heliopolis, only one of which is standing. There is not even a mention of Faiyum in the article about him. [1]
In contrast, the Wikipedia article about Senusret II says that he "...took a great deal of interest in the Faiyum oasis region..."; but this article does not mention the word obelisk. [2]
Finally, the word obelisk is also not mentioned in the Wikipedia article about Faiyum. [3] Nor could I find any reference to an obelisk on either of two commercial websites concerned with Fayoum (the spelling both use). [4] [5]
Therefore, since it would appear that no obelisk was ever built at Faiyum (or Fayoum, an alternate spelling) by a pharaoh named Senusret or by anyone else, the number of ancient Egyptian obelisks that are standing in Egypt would be eight, not nine, which is exactly equal to the number of ancient Egyptian obelisks standing in Rome. [6]
Based upon the above, I will remove from the list of ancient Egyptian obelisks standing in Egypt the one said to have been erected by Senusret I and to be located at Faiyum, and I will change the number listed for Egypt from nine to eight.
This reduction from nine to eight also has the consequent salutary effect of reducing the total in this list from 29 to 28, which is one of the numbers listed above on this Talk page, although no actual total is given in the article itself, the only numbers given in the article being the totals for each country individually. Wikifan2744 ( talk) 06:15, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
References
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Is obelisk always four sided? See for example Monumento a la abolición de la esclavitud which is described as obelisk and seems to be obelisky, while being three-sided. See also Killiney Hill - is it case of an obelisk? What about Heroes Monument (was described as obelisk before my edit - in edit description I forgot to mention dropping obelisk part as I got distracted by other shape-related claim). What about Colonna Mediterranea ? Mateusz Konieczny ( talk) 13:23, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 January 2023 and 17 March 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Itsnotironic ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: 5734hls, Obevo.
— Assignment last updated by Johnstoncl ( talk) 00:48, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
The part of the article that is now the Transportation and erection experiments subsection was never perfect, but subsequent copyedits have on the whole not made it better but worse – even to the point of incoherence. The main origin edits were these two. The problems are many. For example:
But really, this entire (sub)section needs attention from actually good writers to undo the damage done by some of the self-appointed copyeditors. And yes, I realise, technically we're all copyeditors here, but why is it that users who declare in their edit summaries that their contributions are "copyedits" (of other people's contributions) frequently disimprove the document in question? It's weird. — ReadOnlyAccount ( talk) 03:48, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Obelisk article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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|
The formula BCE/CE has been used in this article since 21 November 2003; please do not change this without seeking consensus to do so. |
According to this article, "hundreds of obelisks have been discovered" at Göbekli Tepe. That could make them among the oldest (if not the oldest) obelisks in the world. [1]
Can anyone verify the numbers given for quantities of obelisks in different countries? Everywhere i check I seem to get a different set of numbers. Notably [2], and [3] Pdefer | !! 03:43, 2004 Nov 25 (UTC)
I am sorry, but I cannot figure out how to post a message, so I shall resort to using that of others. I would simply like to bring to the attention of people that in the obelisk article, the two pictures are the same, yet they are labeled as different. Thank you.
For the Urbino obelisk, see Roberto Piperno's page, toward the bottom, and Carlitos Lunghi's page. Further details are given on my own site, (Platner, Obelisci Isei Campensis): notice that the Urbino obelisk is a reconstruction concocted from two authentic Egyptian obelisks. Bill 11:28, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Many war memorials in Britain are obelisk shaped, though most are not so tall that one would include them in a list of modern obelisks. The one in Southport, Lancashire that I just added to the list is particularly tall and impressive. It is the central focus of Lord Street, and is of an unusually grand scale for a provincial town. I took some photos of it today. DFH 21:31, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed the editorial comment, "You can do the research or cover this up too." which is not appropriate to include in the main article. I have retained the word "allegedly", but this still needs a source citing. DFH 21:45, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Many sources still cite the Washington Monument as the world's tallest obelisk. The San Jacinto Monument stands in the Guinness Book of World Records as the tallest monument column in the world, and it is 15 feet taller than the Washington Monument. I suppose that there may be some arguments as to what truly classes as an obelisk. The top of the San Jacinto is somewhat more ornate than a simple pyramid. DFH 18:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
It would be nice to see some information about the construction of obelisks (especially ancient Egyptian ones, but not only those). A good source is Nova's video about Egyptian obelisks. I could write a paragraph or two about that, if that would be appreciated.
Qbert203 04:59, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
This entry keeps coming and going; its been moved,deleted and replaced a number of times :-
"Obelisk is a progressive and melodic death metal band with female operatic elements from ballard washington.
band started in 1999 with Ryan Nairn on lead vocals and lead guitar.
myspace.com/obelisknorthwest".
Should it be kept? (It's currently deleted, I think)And if so, where? Opinions? Swanny18 16:31, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
This list is in danger of getting out of hand:
There are thousands of obelisks in Britain alone (every other graveyard or war memorial will have one); do we really want to list them all here?
How about a separate page for such a list, for the ones here now, and any new ones,
and some guidelines on what to include on this page (tallest, or oldest, from each country, maybe?).
Swanny18 (
talk) 17:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Also, I’ve put a note on the list in the page to say it’s in date order, as it really wasn’t clear at first; I was in the process of re-arrangeing them all before I realized. Swanny18 ( talk) 17:12, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
An explanation why an Egyptian symbol of sun worship has become so popular in the west would be interesting - particularly since sun worship is inherently pagan, and yet several of these things were erected in post-pagan Rome. Apparently there are some connections to freemasonry, particularly the Washington monument which was quite openly laid by freemasons. If someone could answer these questions and add some info it would be great. . —This unsigned comment was added by 41.245.144.80 ( talk • contribs) 00.07, 20 January 2008 .
My challenge to the article is that the Victory Monument in Bangkok is surely a notable example of a 20th Century obelisk. Also, the write up (in Wi 121.120.190.38 ( talk)kipedia) about this monument might have been designed to emphasise the virility of the facist Thai dictator of the time - because obelisks resemble erect penises. This "meaning" of obelisks might explain some erected in modern time by other authoritarian regimes. RW 121.120.190.38 ( talk) 15:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Why is the Arabic term for obelisk given in the lead? Seems strange to me. The only connection I can come up with is the fact that there are obelisks in Egypt, where they now speak Arabic... 76.208.120.38 ( talk) 03:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
(deleted nonsense added here by 213.98.99.60 from 5 March 2009. Swanny18 ( talk) 00:29, 6 July 2009 (UTC))
The lead image of this article seems to have changed since I was here last, with no discussion that I can see. The Wellington obelisk in Dublin is neither the largest, nor the oldest, nor the most attractive obelisk in the world; why is it in the lead now? Previously it was one of the Egyptian ones, which made far more sense. Is there any objection to changing it back? Swanny18 ( talk) 13:43, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
No other replies; we'll stick with Luxor, then.. Swanny18 ( talk) 12:08, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
I personally think that the photos in the article are a bit old. 190.231.115.25 ( talk) 02:16, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
this obelisk is probably Roman and not egyptian. any objection to relocating it's listing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.115.113.33 ( talk) 21:08, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
This section is too long in relation to the rest of the article - UNDUE WEIGHT, per Wiki MOS. It can be shortened to get to the conclusion of the method. Parkwells ( talk) 19:59, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
What exactly do obelisks symbolize? I heard that they're symbols for the phallus. Please someone tell me if this is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.116.30.231 ( talk) 03:57, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
Is the Angel de la Independencia in Mexico truly an obelisk? If it is, it will be the first time I've heard it referred to as such...and I've traveled to Mexico a couple of times. Further, just looking at the photo...it's a simple monument, like dozens all over Latin America, doesn't resemble an obelisk at all. 130.184.206.69 ( talk) 17:32, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
In section 1.1, Ancient obelisks, Egyptian, is the following two-sentence paragraph: "The Ancient Romans were strongly influenced by the obelisk form, to the extent that there are now more than twice as many obelisks standing in Rome as remain in Egypt. All fell after the Roman period except for the Vatican obelisk and were re-erected in different locations".
Because of the way the first sentence is worded ("...as remain in Egypt...") and because it is in section 1.1, it leaves the impression that there are more than twice as many ancient Egyptian obelisks standing in Rome as remain in Egypt, itself. (I assume that the contrast is meant to be with those that are standing in Egypt, itself.)
That is not true, as the list at the end of this same section attests. The paragraph should be rewritten, preferably by its author, so that it accurately says whatever it was intended to say. (There appear to be, in fact, exactly eight standing ancient Egyptian obelisks in Rome and also eight [not nine, see below] standing in Egypt.)
At the end of this same section are listed nine ancient Egyptian obelisks standing in Egypt, itself. The last of these (Senusret I, Faiyum) is, I believe, nonexistent. According to the Wikipedia article about him, Senusret I erected only two obelisks, both near the temple at Re-Atum in Heliopolis, only one of which is standing. There is not even a mention of Faiyum in the article about him. [1]
In contrast, the Wikipedia article about Senusret II says that he "...took a great deal of interest in the Faiyum oasis region..."; but this article does not mention the word obelisk. [2]
Finally, the word obelisk is also not mentioned in the Wikipedia article about Faiyum. [3] Nor could I find any reference to an obelisk on either of two commercial websites concerned with Fayoum (the spelling both use). [4] [5]
Therefore, since it would appear that no obelisk was ever built at Faiyum (or Fayoum, an alternate spelling) by a pharaoh named Senusret or by anyone else, the number of ancient Egyptian obelisks that are standing in Egypt would be eight, not nine, which is exactly equal to the number of ancient Egyptian obelisks standing in Rome. [6]
Based upon the above, I will remove from the list of ancient Egyptian obelisks standing in Egypt the one said to have been erected by Senusret I and to be located at Faiyum, and I will change the number listed for Egypt from nine to eight.
This reduction from nine to eight also has the consequent salutary effect of reducing the total in this list from 29 to 28, which is one of the numbers listed above on this Talk page, although no actual total is given in the article itself, the only numbers given in the article being the totals for each country individually. Wikifan2744 ( talk) 06:15, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
References
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Is obelisk always four sided? See for example Monumento a la abolición de la esclavitud which is described as obelisk and seems to be obelisky, while being three-sided. See also Killiney Hill - is it case of an obelisk? What about Heroes Monument (was described as obelisk before my edit - in edit description I forgot to mention dropping obelisk part as I got distracted by other shape-related claim). What about Colonna Mediterranea ? Mateusz Konieczny ( talk) 13:23, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 January 2023 and 17 March 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Itsnotironic ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: 5734hls, Obevo.
— Assignment last updated by Johnstoncl ( talk) 00:48, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
The part of the article that is now the Transportation and erection experiments subsection was never perfect, but subsequent copyedits have on the whole not made it better but worse – even to the point of incoherence. The main origin edits were these two. The problems are many. For example:
But really, this entire (sub)section needs attention from actually good writers to undo the damage done by some of the self-appointed copyeditors. And yes, I realise, technically we're all copyeditors here, but why is it that users who declare in their edit summaries that their contributions are "copyedits" (of other people's contributions) frequently disimprove the document in question? It's weird. — ReadOnlyAccount ( talk) 03:48, 13 December 2023 (UTC)