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hey guys I'm pretty sure the word lj贸tr (modern icelandic lj贸tur) means light and not ugly. it is a common misconception because the modern icelandic lj贸tur does mean ugly but I heard around (the way you do) that it used to mean light, as in pale, fair, light hair etc.. I didn't edit the main page because I don't have sources and don't feel like doing the work..
As great as the Norse-Gaels are (yes we do still exist!) to say "Gaelicized Scandinavians dominated the Irish Sea region until the Norman era of the twelfth century, founding long-lasting kingdoms, such as YORK" is a bit of a strange statement as Ragnall I Ivarsson did not found York (J贸rv铆k), nor was he the first Norse ruler. Maybe it should give a list of Kingdoms founded by the Norse-Gaels and then state that Norse-Gaels ruled the Norse kingdom at J贸rv铆k. Sigurd Dragon Slayer ( talk) 12:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
User:Thomas.W continually vandalizes this article, Re: Dublin-J贸rv铆k and the Northwestern settlement of Galwegians into Cumbria and the former West Riding of Yorkshire, before Lancashire was carved out of it and supplemented by the Archdeaconry of Chester between the Ribble and Mersey, by burying any references of Gaelic influence in Northumbria. This is like saying Aidan of Lindisfarne wasn't Irish, or that Iona Abbey didn't disseminate Celtic Christianity, that the Synod of Whitby never happened. 鈥斅燩receding unsigned comment added by 107.77.237.142 ( talk) 15:41, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
Calgacus is into power and control over the article he started. Pray tell, would you care to see maps or atlases displaying the Norse-Gael colonisation of ancient Richmondshire? Who cares if you don't think it's relevant, being a Scot and all. I'm English and it matters to me; you don't own the topic anymore than you own the article. IP Address 21:13, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I'l admit i needed a double take at "I used to be a really big fan of Nordic metal and such cultural attributes always linger". Thats certainly the most original argument for pushing a POV ive come across on wikipedia. An Siarach
I just have a sum of many different attributes, but you have yet to refute what is not a straw man. I'm afraid your counter-argument is based on the weakest part of my argument, not the strongest. That is by definition, exploiting a straw man. IP Address 23:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
You joined the party only to shit on me. I'm sorry, but did your grandparents not teach you how to be polite? You weren't involved, but jumped from the frying pan into the fire. I'm afraid that I don't care what your opinion is of me, but that you please learn to be reasonable. If you wish to continue looking like an ass, by ignoring WP:PA then it's all up to you. BTW, this other guy suggested that Wikipedia policy to me before you arrived. So, are you going to ignore what I say because I say it...even though he said it first? You do agree with his position, do you or do you not? Don't pick fights, or run into traffic. BTW, I appear to be the only one accepting the Wikipedia policy of citing sources. Beat that instead of beat off. IP Address 23:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
What on earth is going on here? For information, here is the section that IP Address keeps trying to insert:
Eh? I just cannot make head nor tail of it. The above contribution is impenetrable, poorly written, and has every appearance of being plain pants (not helped by the bizarre comments left by the writer on various Talk pages). Is the User perhaps confusing "Norse-Gaels" with the " Vikings" for which he is currently studying for his school project? A striking example is the confusion between the terms Brythonnic, Celtic and Gael - apparently all mean the same thing to the writer. -- Mais oui! 12:01, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, I haven't defended that version since I was blocked for the 3RR. I simplified it and made the issues discussed, much easier for the casual reader. Your simplistic assumptions about my person are way out of order. Many books talk about the "Norsemen from Ireland" who settled on the highlands of Northern England and also, the joint attacks of Irish-Norse with Harold Godwinson's sons who attempted the dislodging of the Normans in 1069-1070. There is a weird thing here, that Calgacus is very Cumbrian-centric or Celto-centric. If it isn't Cumbria specifically, he goes apeshit at the mention of Norse-Gaels in English history. Tell that to the archaeologists! IP Address 19:06, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
All right. Angus has done very well in the last edit. IP Address 20:13, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
I think that the surname Doyle, very common in Co Wexford, originally meant "black foreigner" referring to ferocious Norse invaders. Millbanks ( talk) 09:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Flag | Date | Use | Description |
---|---|---|---|
File:DofR standard.gif | Standard of the Duke of Rothesay | Banner of the Duke's Arms, 1st and 4th quarters representing the title of Great Steward of Scotland, the 2nd and 3rd quarters representing the title of Lord of the Isles. In the centre is an inescutcheon, of the arms of the heir apparent to the King of Scotland |
Flag | Date | Use | Description |
---|---|---|---|
Flag of Orkney | A blue Nordic cross outlined in yellow on a red field | ||
Flag of Shetland | A white Nordic cross on a light blue field | ||
Flag of Barra | A white Nordic Cross on a green field | ||
File:Flag of Lewis.png | Flag of Lewis | The blue and white stripes are said to represent the seven traditional areas of Lewis. In the fly is a white Nordic Cross on a red field |
What, you're not thinking of putting them on the article? - Calgacus ( 螝螒螞螕螒螝螣危) 21:05, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
[Norse-Gaels...]...are not the sole property of Scottish or Irish history. How bigotedly nationalist of you to avoid the English inheritance of Gaelic culture. Lord Loxley 04:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
It does not automatically follow that Norsemen must always have Norse names, when they have lived in Dublin or Limerick or whatever. Don't you see the whole point, of Norse-GAEL? Who brought an old fashioned Irish name to Cumbria, but the Norsemen? The Normans who went to Ireland were connected to South Wales, not the North of England (e.g. Jorvik). This logically means that only one group could have brought such names as Marmaduke and Gilpatrick to Cumbria. Why is it so unfathomable? Imagine some people from England or of English heritage going into something about the Picts and saying that they know everything about it and will exclude anything that "looks funny". I'm sure that you would be up in arms over that. Now, run off and be constructive. Lord Loxley 19:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how you simply decide to call two different names as one and the same. Marmaduke is not ultimately of English origins, but from Ireland to Northern England, in the common presence of Norse place names and surnames (and nowhere else, I'm afraid). Lord Loxley 19:34, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Where some are, there are bound to be others. It is ludicrous to believe that only TWO names could be found, as you assert.
I'm afraid that Londonocentric versions of English history care more about the naming conventions of Anglo-Saxons and Normans than anything North of the Trent, whilst Scots involved with this article obviously don't care about their old border enemies anywhere between there and your side of Hadrian's Wall. Oh yes, we don't have a history of our own? We don't deserve to? On Talk:Modern Celts and Talk:Celtic nations, one finds a supreme amount of POV nationalism on the part of Celticists and their affiliates seem to be working just as hard here as the Germanophile supremacists on Talk:English people and Talk:List of English monarchs. If you are a Celtic supremacist and want to exclude any and all things English from such a relationship, feel free to make Wikipedia a joyride of propaganda on your part. I have decided to be content with knowing that your edits will speak for themselves. I don't need to be the sheriff and watch. Let this be a chance to police yourselves on hooliganism. Maybe you will one day realise that all the efforts made into ethnic separatism will bring no true comfort, since my nonresistance will speak for itself. It's the time of your life, another Great Conspiracy to bring down the evil British (or is that evil "Welsh"?). Lord Loxley 19:55, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Sorry about my misspelling of anglicised. I was just performing a partial revert to the version of an editor who frequently makes errors in fact, but not this time. "Englished" is not an English word. 鈥 Arthur Rubin | (talk) 14:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Englishing is almost certainly not the preferred term for an encyclopedia. "Anglicization" has a broader cultural range and is much more common, especially in an academic context. I think you're trying to make a (necessary) distinction between rendering words into modern English and translating them from Gaelic (etc) into the dialect of English or Anglo-Saxon spoken at the time. I can't help but think there must be a way to make this clearer without using an archaic word. Apologies if I have misunderstood your intention.
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 21:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC) SHIP: Are you sure about the ship there? I was told it was the remains of a Danish ship that never made it home. Can someone verify? 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.167.190.157 ( talk) 13:56, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Hello all, I reverted the addition of macDonell, because there was no obvious indication to me that Dh貌mhnaill is a norse-origin name. However, O'Donnell dynasty seems to suggest, but not say explicitly that Donnell and Connell derive from O'Neil which in turn comes from Njal, which is norse. Any thoughts or sources, on this? Also, how should we deal with names that derive indirectly from other names that have norse origins? Should they be included? de Bivort 16:41, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Dh貌mhnail is to my knowledge not a Norse name. While the Mac Donnells were considered a Galloglass family by the Irish as they were foreign Gaels from Alba, they are descended from Somhairle who traces his descent from the Irish King, Conn of the Hundred Battles. It is my understanding that the name itself is a Gaelic origin name meaning "World ruler", composed of the old Celtic elements dumno "world" and val "rule". The Irish orthography renders it as D贸nal. The MacDonald/MacDonnell family came to prominence in the Western Isles because their founder Somerled (Somhairle) was successful in expelling the Norse.
In general this article seems to intimate that these "Norse Gaels" were culturally Norse when in fact, the Galloglass were of mixed ethnic origin (Norse, Pict, Gael) and were culturally Gaelic and very little traces of Norse culture remained in the Western Isles. Contrast with the citizens of Orkney and Shetland where the Norse influence was much stronger and the Norn language was spoken. (NMD) 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.34.96.64 ( talk) 01:56, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Many websites and wikipedia articles are quite unclear as to the extent of Norse in colonized areas of the Gaelic/Pictish world. In norse colonized areas of the Gaelo-pictish world, did the descendants of the viking settlers become gaelic speaking or did Norse dominate the areas that they colonized?
Now I know that the northern isles continued speaking Norse that evolved into Norn that lasted well into the nineteenth century but how long did the language survive in: The Hebrides, mainland Scotland (including Caithness and Galoway), The isle of Man and the Norse colonized areas of Ireland? On several websites and wikipedia articles, they said that the Norse in Ireland became both christian and Irish speaking and perhaps bilingual even before the Battle of Clontarf, where as other websites say that Old Norse was spoken under the Lordship of Ireland after the Norman invasion. Now I know that the Hebrides, Isle of Man and Galloway that were colonized by the Norse were bastions of the Gaelic language and the Hebrides still but were the viking ruled lands and cities in Ireland:
or
Can someone explain please? Abrawak ( talk) 13:14, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Who coined this name? I doesn't seem to be used in the titles of any of the sources. It is perhaps just a made up name for this article? FunkMonk ( talk) 21:56, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
It is questionable in the connection made with 'Gall-Gaels,' etc. (see below)
JF42 (
talk) 13:08, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
In the 鈥淟ist of Surnames鈥 (5 May 2013) the name Lj贸tr (or Lj贸tur in modern Icelandic spelling) is said to mean 鈥渦gly鈥. As was pointed out at the very beginning of this Talk Page this is wrong, and to a reader, it may cast doubt upon the reliability of other information. The McLeods are not named for an ugly forefather. The writer of the article may know some Icelandic or Old Norse, or somebody may have informed him that the adjective 鈥渓j贸tur鈥 means, indeed, ugly. But actually the name, although spelt in the same way, is entirely different in origin. It is related to 鈥渓j贸s鈥 , which as a noun means 鈥渓ight鈥, and as an adjective means 鈥渇air鈥, 鈥渓ucid鈥, or 鈥渂right鈥 (in the physical sense, not the figurative one). A man named Lj贸tur is, like Lucius in Latin, Luis in Spanish or Louis in French, a man of fair complexion, or perhaps one who brightens up his surroundings (Ludwig and its correlates in other languages is a different matter, originally meaning a renowned warrior). Lj贸tur, although devoid of religious connotation, is a masculine equivalent of a Greek Photina, Russian Svetlana, or Danish Birte. In Iceland, Lj贸t has also been a female name in past ages, but like Lj贸tur it has unfortunately fallen out of favour because of this unwarranted and fortuitous connection with ugliness. 鈥淯gly鈥 is not, and never has been, a name to be given a baby. Please check with a competent etymologist. A reference to an American website possibly concerned with selling what info it may have or think it have, does not alter this. Togifex ( talk) 01:39, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
The very old name "脼orketill" wich presumable refers to the correctly spelled name "脼orkl" should have some reference to the rare but still used modern name "Torkel", wich originally refers to the Old Norse god Tor or "脼orr" / "脼or"
Bo or "Bui"聽:) 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.228.192.90 ( talk) 02:48, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Edit: I have read "脼贸rk忙till" is also a historically form of the name. Very interesting, that shows differencies in language or dialects a bit earlier from what I thouht before. 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.228.192.90 ( talk) 03:10, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Edit2: 脼贸rk忙till means "Tors Kittel" in modern Swedish or "Thors Kettle" in modern English 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.228.192.90 ( talk) 03:22, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
The different forms of the name: 脼贸rk忙till torkel, 脼orkl聽; they express a timeline. 85.228.192.90 ( talk) 03:27, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Is there a reason why Galloway is not mentioned at all in the Scottish section of the article? 鈥斅燩receding unsigned comment added by 86.140.133.223 ( talk) 22:53, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
There seems to be a confusion between the mixed 'Norse-Gael' culture arising from Norse settlement in Ireland, North Western Scotland and the Isles, and the phenomenon of the Gall-Gaels (etc), an enigmatic war band mentioned briefly in C9th annals, whose name comes to be associated with Galloway, initially as a title of the Lords of Galloway descended from Fergus.
'Norse-Gael' is not a translation of Gal gaidhil (etc etc) and it is misleading to suggest that it is.
JF42 ( talk) 15:14, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
Certain proper names seem to arrange Gaelic elements according to Germanic word order: Camshron, Caimbeul, Dubhlinn etc. Could anyone elaborate, add links etc.? 195.187.108.4 ( talk) 18:49, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
This article talks about Norse-Gaels, a hybrid ethnic group, but seems to zero in almost exclusively on the "Norse" side of the equation, particularly in the section that lists the surnames. Norse-Gaelic clan names were not strictly derived from the old Scandinavian languages: some Norse-Gaels had Gaelic-Irish names (like the Donovan clan), and others had Gaelic names that were almost certainly influenced by Norse naming practices, and particularly after Christian conversions (see Mac Giolla Ph谩draig dynasty). Is there any issue with sourcing? I might be able to help with that. Jonathan f1 ( talk) 21:29, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
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hey guys I'm pretty sure the word lj贸tr (modern icelandic lj贸tur) means light and not ugly. it is a common misconception because the modern icelandic lj贸tur does mean ugly but I heard around (the way you do) that it used to mean light, as in pale, fair, light hair etc.. I didn't edit the main page because I don't have sources and don't feel like doing the work..
As great as the Norse-Gaels are (yes we do still exist!) to say "Gaelicized Scandinavians dominated the Irish Sea region until the Norman era of the twelfth century, founding long-lasting kingdoms, such as YORK" is a bit of a strange statement as Ragnall I Ivarsson did not found York (J贸rv铆k), nor was he the first Norse ruler. Maybe it should give a list of Kingdoms founded by the Norse-Gaels and then state that Norse-Gaels ruled the Norse kingdom at J贸rv铆k. Sigurd Dragon Slayer ( talk) 12:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
User:Thomas.W continually vandalizes this article, Re: Dublin-J贸rv铆k and the Northwestern settlement of Galwegians into Cumbria and the former West Riding of Yorkshire, before Lancashire was carved out of it and supplemented by the Archdeaconry of Chester between the Ribble and Mersey, by burying any references of Gaelic influence in Northumbria. This is like saying Aidan of Lindisfarne wasn't Irish, or that Iona Abbey didn't disseminate Celtic Christianity, that the Synod of Whitby never happened. 鈥斅燩receding unsigned comment added by 107.77.237.142 ( talk) 15:41, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
Calgacus is into power and control over the article he started. Pray tell, would you care to see maps or atlases displaying the Norse-Gael colonisation of ancient Richmondshire? Who cares if you don't think it's relevant, being a Scot and all. I'm English and it matters to me; you don't own the topic anymore than you own the article. IP Address 21:13, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I'l admit i needed a double take at "I used to be a really big fan of Nordic metal and such cultural attributes always linger". Thats certainly the most original argument for pushing a POV ive come across on wikipedia. An Siarach
I just have a sum of many different attributes, but you have yet to refute what is not a straw man. I'm afraid your counter-argument is based on the weakest part of my argument, not the strongest. That is by definition, exploiting a straw man. IP Address 23:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
You joined the party only to shit on me. I'm sorry, but did your grandparents not teach you how to be polite? You weren't involved, but jumped from the frying pan into the fire. I'm afraid that I don't care what your opinion is of me, but that you please learn to be reasonable. If you wish to continue looking like an ass, by ignoring WP:PA then it's all up to you. BTW, this other guy suggested that Wikipedia policy to me before you arrived. So, are you going to ignore what I say because I say it...even though he said it first? You do agree with his position, do you or do you not? Don't pick fights, or run into traffic. BTW, I appear to be the only one accepting the Wikipedia policy of citing sources. Beat that instead of beat off. IP Address 23:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
What on earth is going on here? For information, here is the section that IP Address keeps trying to insert:
Eh? I just cannot make head nor tail of it. The above contribution is impenetrable, poorly written, and has every appearance of being plain pants (not helped by the bizarre comments left by the writer on various Talk pages). Is the User perhaps confusing "Norse-Gaels" with the " Vikings" for which he is currently studying for his school project? A striking example is the confusion between the terms Brythonnic, Celtic and Gael - apparently all mean the same thing to the writer. -- Mais oui! 12:01, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, I haven't defended that version since I was blocked for the 3RR. I simplified it and made the issues discussed, much easier for the casual reader. Your simplistic assumptions about my person are way out of order. Many books talk about the "Norsemen from Ireland" who settled on the highlands of Northern England and also, the joint attacks of Irish-Norse with Harold Godwinson's sons who attempted the dislodging of the Normans in 1069-1070. There is a weird thing here, that Calgacus is very Cumbrian-centric or Celto-centric. If it isn't Cumbria specifically, he goes apeshit at the mention of Norse-Gaels in English history. Tell that to the archaeologists! IP Address 19:06, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
All right. Angus has done very well in the last edit. IP Address 20:13, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
I think that the surname Doyle, very common in Co Wexford, originally meant "black foreigner" referring to ferocious Norse invaders. Millbanks ( talk) 09:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Flag | Date | Use | Description |
---|---|---|---|
File:DofR standard.gif | Standard of the Duke of Rothesay | Banner of the Duke's Arms, 1st and 4th quarters representing the title of Great Steward of Scotland, the 2nd and 3rd quarters representing the title of Lord of the Isles. In the centre is an inescutcheon, of the arms of the heir apparent to the King of Scotland |
Flag | Date | Use | Description |
---|---|---|---|
Flag of Orkney | A blue Nordic cross outlined in yellow on a red field | ||
Flag of Shetland | A white Nordic cross on a light blue field | ||
Flag of Barra | A white Nordic Cross on a green field | ||
File:Flag of Lewis.png | Flag of Lewis | The blue and white stripes are said to represent the seven traditional areas of Lewis. In the fly is a white Nordic Cross on a red field |
What, you're not thinking of putting them on the article? - Calgacus ( 螝螒螞螕螒螝螣危) 21:05, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
[Norse-Gaels...]...are not the sole property of Scottish or Irish history. How bigotedly nationalist of you to avoid the English inheritance of Gaelic culture. Lord Loxley 04:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
It does not automatically follow that Norsemen must always have Norse names, when they have lived in Dublin or Limerick or whatever. Don't you see the whole point, of Norse-GAEL? Who brought an old fashioned Irish name to Cumbria, but the Norsemen? The Normans who went to Ireland were connected to South Wales, not the North of England (e.g. Jorvik). This logically means that only one group could have brought such names as Marmaduke and Gilpatrick to Cumbria. Why is it so unfathomable? Imagine some people from England or of English heritage going into something about the Picts and saying that they know everything about it and will exclude anything that "looks funny". I'm sure that you would be up in arms over that. Now, run off and be constructive. Lord Loxley 19:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how you simply decide to call two different names as one and the same. Marmaduke is not ultimately of English origins, but from Ireland to Northern England, in the common presence of Norse place names and surnames (and nowhere else, I'm afraid). Lord Loxley 19:34, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Where some are, there are bound to be others. It is ludicrous to believe that only TWO names could be found, as you assert.
I'm afraid that Londonocentric versions of English history care more about the naming conventions of Anglo-Saxons and Normans than anything North of the Trent, whilst Scots involved with this article obviously don't care about their old border enemies anywhere between there and your side of Hadrian's Wall. Oh yes, we don't have a history of our own? We don't deserve to? On Talk:Modern Celts and Talk:Celtic nations, one finds a supreme amount of POV nationalism on the part of Celticists and their affiliates seem to be working just as hard here as the Germanophile supremacists on Talk:English people and Talk:List of English monarchs. If you are a Celtic supremacist and want to exclude any and all things English from such a relationship, feel free to make Wikipedia a joyride of propaganda on your part. I have decided to be content with knowing that your edits will speak for themselves. I don't need to be the sheriff and watch. Let this be a chance to police yourselves on hooliganism. Maybe you will one day realise that all the efforts made into ethnic separatism will bring no true comfort, since my nonresistance will speak for itself. It's the time of your life, another Great Conspiracy to bring down the evil British (or is that evil "Welsh"?). Lord Loxley 19:55, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Sorry about my misspelling of anglicised. I was just performing a partial revert to the version of an editor who frequently makes errors in fact, but not this time. "Englished" is not an English word. 鈥 Arthur Rubin | (talk) 14:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Englishing is almost certainly not the preferred term for an encyclopedia. "Anglicization" has a broader cultural range and is much more common, especially in an academic context. I think you're trying to make a (necessary) distinction between rendering words into modern English and translating them from Gaelic (etc) into the dialect of English or Anglo-Saxon spoken at the time. I can't help but think there must be a way to make this clearer without using an archaic word. Apologies if I have misunderstood your intention.
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 21:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC) SHIP: Are you sure about the ship there? I was told it was the remains of a Danish ship that never made it home. Can someone verify? 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.167.190.157 ( talk) 13:56, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Hello all, I reverted the addition of macDonell, because there was no obvious indication to me that Dh貌mhnaill is a norse-origin name. However, O'Donnell dynasty seems to suggest, but not say explicitly that Donnell and Connell derive from O'Neil which in turn comes from Njal, which is norse. Any thoughts or sources, on this? Also, how should we deal with names that derive indirectly from other names that have norse origins? Should they be included? de Bivort 16:41, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Dh貌mhnail is to my knowledge not a Norse name. While the Mac Donnells were considered a Galloglass family by the Irish as they were foreign Gaels from Alba, they are descended from Somhairle who traces his descent from the Irish King, Conn of the Hundred Battles. It is my understanding that the name itself is a Gaelic origin name meaning "World ruler", composed of the old Celtic elements dumno "world" and val "rule". The Irish orthography renders it as D贸nal. The MacDonald/MacDonnell family came to prominence in the Western Isles because their founder Somerled (Somhairle) was successful in expelling the Norse.
In general this article seems to intimate that these "Norse Gaels" were culturally Norse when in fact, the Galloglass were of mixed ethnic origin (Norse, Pict, Gael) and were culturally Gaelic and very little traces of Norse culture remained in the Western Isles. Contrast with the citizens of Orkney and Shetland where the Norse influence was much stronger and the Norn language was spoken. (NMD) 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.34.96.64 ( talk) 01:56, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Many websites and wikipedia articles are quite unclear as to the extent of Norse in colonized areas of the Gaelic/Pictish world. In norse colonized areas of the Gaelo-pictish world, did the descendants of the viking settlers become gaelic speaking or did Norse dominate the areas that they colonized?
Now I know that the northern isles continued speaking Norse that evolved into Norn that lasted well into the nineteenth century but how long did the language survive in: The Hebrides, mainland Scotland (including Caithness and Galoway), The isle of Man and the Norse colonized areas of Ireland? On several websites and wikipedia articles, they said that the Norse in Ireland became both christian and Irish speaking and perhaps bilingual even before the Battle of Clontarf, where as other websites say that Old Norse was spoken under the Lordship of Ireland after the Norman invasion. Now I know that the Hebrides, Isle of Man and Galloway that were colonized by the Norse were bastions of the Gaelic language and the Hebrides still but were the viking ruled lands and cities in Ireland:
or
Can someone explain please? Abrawak ( talk) 13:14, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Who coined this name? I doesn't seem to be used in the titles of any of the sources. It is perhaps just a made up name for this article? FunkMonk ( talk) 21:56, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
It is questionable in the connection made with 'Gall-Gaels,' etc. (see below)
JF42 (
talk) 13:08, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
In the 鈥淟ist of Surnames鈥 (5 May 2013) the name Lj贸tr (or Lj贸tur in modern Icelandic spelling) is said to mean 鈥渦gly鈥. As was pointed out at the very beginning of this Talk Page this is wrong, and to a reader, it may cast doubt upon the reliability of other information. The McLeods are not named for an ugly forefather. The writer of the article may know some Icelandic or Old Norse, or somebody may have informed him that the adjective 鈥渓j贸tur鈥 means, indeed, ugly. But actually the name, although spelt in the same way, is entirely different in origin. It is related to 鈥渓j贸s鈥 , which as a noun means 鈥渓ight鈥, and as an adjective means 鈥渇air鈥, 鈥渓ucid鈥, or 鈥渂right鈥 (in the physical sense, not the figurative one). A man named Lj贸tur is, like Lucius in Latin, Luis in Spanish or Louis in French, a man of fair complexion, or perhaps one who brightens up his surroundings (Ludwig and its correlates in other languages is a different matter, originally meaning a renowned warrior). Lj贸tur, although devoid of religious connotation, is a masculine equivalent of a Greek Photina, Russian Svetlana, or Danish Birte. In Iceland, Lj贸t has also been a female name in past ages, but like Lj贸tur it has unfortunately fallen out of favour because of this unwarranted and fortuitous connection with ugliness. 鈥淯gly鈥 is not, and never has been, a name to be given a baby. Please check with a competent etymologist. A reference to an American website possibly concerned with selling what info it may have or think it have, does not alter this. Togifex ( talk) 01:39, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
The very old name "脼orketill" wich presumable refers to the correctly spelled name "脼orkl" should have some reference to the rare but still used modern name "Torkel", wich originally refers to the Old Norse god Tor or "脼orr" / "脼or"
Bo or "Bui"聽:) 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.228.192.90 ( talk) 02:48, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Edit: I have read "脼贸rk忙till" is also a historically form of the name. Very interesting, that shows differencies in language or dialects a bit earlier from what I thouht before. 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.228.192.90 ( talk) 03:10, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Edit2: 脼贸rk忙till means "Tors Kittel" in modern Swedish or "Thors Kettle" in modern English 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.228.192.90 ( talk) 03:22, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
The different forms of the name: 脼贸rk忙till torkel, 脼orkl聽; they express a timeline. 85.228.192.90 ( talk) 03:27, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Is there a reason why Galloway is not mentioned at all in the Scottish section of the article? 鈥斅燩receding unsigned comment added by 86.140.133.223 ( talk) 22:53, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
There seems to be a confusion between the mixed 'Norse-Gael' culture arising from Norse settlement in Ireland, North Western Scotland and the Isles, and the phenomenon of the Gall-Gaels (etc), an enigmatic war band mentioned briefly in C9th annals, whose name comes to be associated with Galloway, initially as a title of the Lords of Galloway descended from Fergus.
'Norse-Gael' is not a translation of Gal gaidhil (etc etc) and it is misleading to suggest that it is.
JF42 ( talk) 15:14, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
Certain proper names seem to arrange Gaelic elements according to Germanic word order: Camshron, Caimbeul, Dubhlinn etc. Could anyone elaborate, add links etc.? 195.187.108.4 ( talk) 18:49, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
This article talks about Norse-Gaels, a hybrid ethnic group, but seems to zero in almost exclusively on the "Norse" side of the equation, particularly in the section that lists the surnames. Norse-Gaelic clan names were not strictly derived from the old Scandinavian languages: some Norse-Gaels had Gaelic-Irish names (like the Donovan clan), and others had Gaelic names that were almost certainly influenced by Norse naming practices, and particularly after Christian conversions (see Mac Giolla Ph谩draig dynasty). Is there any issue with sourcing? I might be able to help with that. Jonathan f1 ( talk) 21:29, 27 October 2023 (UTC)