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Did you know?" column on
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Normandy landings,
Caen (pictured), was not captured by the Allies until 21 July 1944? | |||||||||
![]() | Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on June 6, 2010, June 6, 2011, June 6, 2012, June 6, 2017, June 6, 2019, June 6, 2020, and June 6, 2024. |
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Hi I am George P III, and I want to edit this article as I am an expert in my field. Also, just to let you know I've been studying this specific subject for about 5 years so it would be great if I can edit and give some extra but important information. Besides being an expert, I am a scientist and archiologist with 30 years of experience in science and 28 years in archiology. So if you want any additional information on the Normandy landings and what the Germans did to defend the French land they forcefully took over. AnonymousSushiMan ( talk) 00:17, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
"The Normandy landings were the largest seaborne invasion in history" Beevor 2009 p74. Only that is not what the reference states on p74. It states the largest sea force assembled in history, then lists the number of ships. Earlier on p72 Beevor states that it was the largest amphibious assault attempted - whether that attempt relates to WW2 or in history is not clarified. The two relevant pages need to be correctly cited, else we have the current POV. Additionally, other secondary sources should be used to support such a key statement in the article. Also, a comparison should be drawn with the invasion of Sicily, which had a similar number of troops in the initial assault (according to WP Sicily had 4,000 more troops) with more tanks, artillery etc during the landing. 182.239.146.143 ( talk) 23:33, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
Whilst factually correct, the tone of this is overly negative. A reader could well think this had been a disaster or a German victory; it was not!
“The Allies failed to achieve any of their major goals beyond the establishment of the beachheads on the first day. Carentan, Saint-Lô, and Bayeux remained in German hands, and Caen, a major objective, was not captured until 21 July. Only two of the beaches (Juno and Gold) were linked on the first day, and all five beachheads were not connected until 12 June; however, the operation gained a foothold that the Allies gradually expanded over the coming months.”
It reads as though D Day was a failure. It was a resounding success! The allies established a beachhead which the Germans never reversed - never even looked like reversing - and so the Germans lost the war; this was the main aim. It is not to be an aside following ‘however’!
Caen was not captured until 21 July because the Germans didn’t do the sensible thing and withdraw to a more-easily defended position. Hitler’s military training was as a corporal on the Western Front - never yield an inch of land; he lost endless men and materiél through failure to withdraw. As a result of a month’s intense fighting near the coast the German army in France was effectively defeated in Normandy and the liberation of Paris and then arriving at the Rhine followed quickly after.
The objective was the liberation of France, which was achieved spectacularly quickly - e.g. the supply lines became over-extended as the Germans collapsed too quickly. The reason for this collapse was that they defended every inch of Normandy and were defeated there.
In terms of choosing objectives, simple psychology requires the setting of objectives that are unachievable. That way productivity is higher than if achievable objectives are set. Failure to achieve impossible targets does not amount to failure.
The Allies do not deserve this negativity; D-Day was an overwhelming victory. Elements of this article read as though they were written by Goebbels! D-Day was not essentially a success for the Germans. Quincefish ( talk) 05:57, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
In the 'Aftermath' section the article refers to 1,000 German casualties which is clearly wrong; within this article both in the summary and in the "casualties and losses" part of the summary table the generally accepted range of 4,000-9,000 is used. I have ordered a copy of the book referenced, Ford and Zaloga, to check. Quincefish ( talk) 16:41, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
We must accept that D-Day was an operation where all Allied Nations contributed, including but not limited to, Canada, Britain and France. These nations are excluded in favour of American-centric photos which excludes them. I would like this to change, so all of the nations who fought for freedom against evil fascism are represented here 2604:3D08:1A71:5200:C6E:9D16:D915:9D18 ( talk) 09:19, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Normandy landings article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | Normandy landings has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() | A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
July 21, 2014. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that a key target for the
Normandy landings,
Caen (pictured), was not captured by the Allies until 21 July 1944? | |||||||||
![]() | Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on June 6, 2010, June 6, 2011, June 6, 2012, June 6, 2017, June 6, 2019, June 6, 2020, and June 6, 2024. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 3 times. The weeks in which this happened: |
![]() | On 20 February 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to D-Day. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hi I am George P III, and I want to edit this article as I am an expert in my field. Also, just to let you know I've been studying this specific subject for about 5 years so it would be great if I can edit and give some extra but important information. Besides being an expert, I am a scientist and archiologist with 30 years of experience in science and 28 years in archiology. So if you want any additional information on the Normandy landings and what the Germans did to defend the French land they forcefully took over. AnonymousSushiMan ( talk) 00:17, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
"The Normandy landings were the largest seaborne invasion in history" Beevor 2009 p74. Only that is not what the reference states on p74. It states the largest sea force assembled in history, then lists the number of ships. Earlier on p72 Beevor states that it was the largest amphibious assault attempted - whether that attempt relates to WW2 or in history is not clarified. The two relevant pages need to be correctly cited, else we have the current POV. Additionally, other secondary sources should be used to support such a key statement in the article. Also, a comparison should be drawn with the invasion of Sicily, which had a similar number of troops in the initial assault (according to WP Sicily had 4,000 more troops) with more tanks, artillery etc during the landing. 182.239.146.143 ( talk) 23:33, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
Whilst factually correct, the tone of this is overly negative. A reader could well think this had been a disaster or a German victory; it was not!
“The Allies failed to achieve any of their major goals beyond the establishment of the beachheads on the first day. Carentan, Saint-Lô, and Bayeux remained in German hands, and Caen, a major objective, was not captured until 21 July. Only two of the beaches (Juno and Gold) were linked on the first day, and all five beachheads were not connected until 12 June; however, the operation gained a foothold that the Allies gradually expanded over the coming months.”
It reads as though D Day was a failure. It was a resounding success! The allies established a beachhead which the Germans never reversed - never even looked like reversing - and so the Germans lost the war; this was the main aim. It is not to be an aside following ‘however’!
Caen was not captured until 21 July because the Germans didn’t do the sensible thing and withdraw to a more-easily defended position. Hitler’s military training was as a corporal on the Western Front - never yield an inch of land; he lost endless men and materiél through failure to withdraw. As a result of a month’s intense fighting near the coast the German army in France was effectively defeated in Normandy and the liberation of Paris and then arriving at the Rhine followed quickly after.
The objective was the liberation of France, which was achieved spectacularly quickly - e.g. the supply lines became over-extended as the Germans collapsed too quickly. The reason for this collapse was that they defended every inch of Normandy and were defeated there.
In terms of choosing objectives, simple psychology requires the setting of objectives that are unachievable. That way productivity is higher than if achievable objectives are set. Failure to achieve impossible targets does not amount to failure.
The Allies do not deserve this negativity; D-Day was an overwhelming victory. Elements of this article read as though they were written by Goebbels! D-Day was not essentially a success for the Germans. Quincefish ( talk) 05:57, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
In the 'Aftermath' section the article refers to 1,000 German casualties which is clearly wrong; within this article both in the summary and in the "casualties and losses" part of the summary table the generally accepted range of 4,000-9,000 is used. I have ordered a copy of the book referenced, Ford and Zaloga, to check. Quincefish ( talk) 16:41, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
We must accept that D-Day was an operation where all Allied Nations contributed, including but not limited to, Canada, Britain and France. These nations are excluded in favour of American-centric photos which excludes them. I would like this to change, so all of the nations who fought for freedom against evil fascism are represented here 2604:3D08:1A71:5200:C6E:9D16:D915:9D18 ( talk) 09:19, 8 June 2024 (UTC)