This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
At this point, the website is the campaign. We should describe it and mention any peculiarities covered in the press.-- William S. Saturn ( talk) 20:14, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
I've added this relevant detail and I trust that this is OK, despite my relationship to Mr. Gingrich. -- Joedesantis ( talk) 17:25, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
I would like to suggest a new short paragraph for this article, perhaps as a third heading under the "Campaign developments" section. As Newt is on the trail he will be making announcements and some have already received significant coverage. One from this week I think can be treated in an encyclopedic manner, and I've written a short section with a short description and two sources. Because of my role with the campaign, I'd like to invite another editor to review this and consider it for use in the article. And if you do add it, feel free to delete this here if you like. Thanks, Joedesantis ( talk) 18:20, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
On Wednesday, June 8, during an appearance at C&M Machine Products in Hudson, New Hampshire, Gingrich signed the "Strong America Now" pledge, which calls for a 25% reduction in federal government spending and to start paying down the national debt by 2017, becoming the first Republican candidate to do so. [1] [2]
I am starting a list of stories about the Gingrich campaign that I think could be useful in this article. I'd like to encourage any editor who decides to work on this article to consider these reliable sources for inclusion in the article at any time. I will continue to add useful links on occasion, and try to respond to any questions as quickly as I can. Thanks, Joedesantis ( talk) 13:39, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
June 2011 |
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On 6/22 Newt Gingrich called for a "dramatically limited Federal Reserve," arguing the Fed supported Libya during the financial crisis. From the article: "A New York subsidiary of Bahrain-based Arab Banking Corp. was among many foreign banks the Fed lent to during the crisis to prevent a global financial meltdown. The Libyan government has a large stake in the bank, though Fed officials have said most of the stake was purchased by Tripoli after the bank's loans from the Fed were repaid. A Fed spokeswoman declined to comment." -- " GOP Candidates Set Sights on Fed," Wall Street Journal, June 22, 2011. |
* On 6/28 Newt Gingrich signed the Cut, Cap and Balance pledge urging Congress to oppose raising the debt ceiling limit unless the following conditions are met: a) cuts to federal spending to reduce the debt, b) caps on federal spending, and c) passage of a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution. Article also notes: "Gingrich was Speaker of the House when Congress balanced the budget during the Clinton administration. -- " Gingrich signs Cut, Cap and Balance pledge," The Daily Caller, June 28, 2011. |
July 2011 |
* Tony Blankley comments on Newt Gingrich's campaign trail discussion of Alzheimer's as an issue, pointing out that it is neither new issue for him, nor is it a "niche" issue: "I remember Newt talking to me about the coming crisis in Alzheimer’s back in the 1990s. And in 2007, the Alzheimer's Association along with the Congressional Task Force on Alzheimer’s Disease called for the creation of the Alzheimer’s Study Group. Newt was named co-chairman, along with former Democratic Sen. Bob Kerrey. ... The bipartisan study Newt co-chaired reported that unless there are breakthroughs in the diagnosis, treatment and reduction in the rate of Alzheimer’s, Medicare and Medicaid will spend nearly $20 trillion on the treatment and care of the disease by the middle of the century - a trillion dollars a year by 2050." -- " Newt is no niche candidate," Tony Blankley, The Washington Times, July 5, 2011. |
* Politico reported on Gingrich's Twitter following, the biggest among the GOP presidential candidates: "Gingrich has a whopping 1.3 million followers on the popular social media site. His three closest Twitter rivals from the 2012 GOP presidential field, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and Reps. Ron Paul and Michele Bachmann, all hover around 60,000 followers apiece. Even Twitter enthusiast Sarah Palin, who hasn’t indicated whether she’ll run, has less than half the followers Gingrich does." --" Newt Gingrich miles ahead in Twitter primary", Politico, July 12, 2011. |
* TechPresident covered Gingrich's announced hosting of a video "hangout" on the new Google+ website, dicussing "everything from the space program to Thucydides with a slowly rotating cast of up to 10 Americans at a time. ... Gingrich took the time to throw questions back at some of the other nine participants, such as a professor of political philosophy who interrupted some study of Socrates to participate." The article compared it to "the online version of a campaign stop at a New Hampshire diner." --" The +Newt Gingrich Google Hangout: How'd That Go?" Nick Judd, TechPresident, July 13, 2011. |
Do we know if Newt is betting the farm on a run in South Carolina or is he building an operation in other states as well? Manofmyth ( talk) 01:49, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
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Gingrich has lived in Virginia since 1999. Per the Cheney precedent, isn't a candidate's "home state" determined by the last place he voted? - Kudzu1 ( talk) 16:40, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
I have no motivation in engaging in the American Presidential Election nor in any conservative vs democrats laundry...but I cannot believe how much my edits have been washed in one single day: [ 10 December 2011 ] to present [ 11 December 2011].
What is the purpose, to potray Ginrich in a more favorable light or simply to provide some [ original research]-- Caygill ( talk) 16:29, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm a little unsure how to proceed with the final section. It's clear he's frontrunner, and it's clear he is getting a lot more criticism as of late. I personally would like a section to the effect of Frontrunner: increased criticism. In all objectivity, that would be the best way of handling it, but a lot of editors want to highlight controversies and push undue weight on week by week statements. It does not make sense to do that, as I expect editors will start pushing sections into this on a day by day, week by week basis dedicated to gaffes and controversies. I would like to have a discussion with those who want sections here, because it is not an easy judgment to make on how to constitute, name, and divvy up sections, and I know it will be done soon.-- Screwball23 talk 06:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Hello, my name is Joe DeSantis and I am the communications director for Mr. Gingrich's presidential campaign. I have previously made edit requests and provided source material on this talk page, and I hope to be able to suggest changes and be of assistance in providing information once again. In recent months there have been a large number of changes to this article and, while many have introduced good material, I do have concerns about some. I'll address them as follows:
In addition, an image of the NR cover was added to the section with a caption "Gingrich parodied on the cover of National Review, which urged its readers not to vote for him". The inclusion of this material perhaps gives too much weight to a single magazine piece. No other source (critical or otherwise) has been given such coverage in the article. I suggest that the NR could be added to the list of critics at the end of the section, and ask if the cover is really necessary (especially considering it is a copyrighted image).
Due to my relationship to Newt, I would appreciate input from other editors and hope to reach agreement in addressing these issues. Thanks, Joedesantis ( talk) 21:34, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
To whom it may concern: I'm Joe DeSantis, the communications director for Newt's campaign. I have noticed this article does not currently have a section about the caucus and primary results, although similar articles for the Romney, Santorum and Paul campaigns do. I've put together a paragraph that I think would work here:
Here is the markup code:
To summarize, the first sentence is a straight summary of the results, the second addresses Gingrich's performance, from his perspective. The third addresses Gingrich's performance, as summarized by the mainstream media. Maybe you will think it's slightly favorable in this writing, but the San Francisco Chronicle article is pretty representative of the post-caucus coverage. Similar stories were filed by NPR, New York Times and Politico. I wish to avoid adding this section myself, and would like another editor to consider its inclusion, but I may if another editor expresses agreement here. Thanks. Joedesantis ( talk) 02:10, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to offer another suggestion for this entry, and it concerns the " Top tier candidate" section. I have noticed that it includes a lot of material on the Gingrich Group's work for Freddie Mac. I realize this was at issue in the debates in November, and I understand that it needs to be here. However, about half of the section focuses on this subject, while there is little to no mention of other topics from those debates. My opinion is that it probably includes too much about Freddie, and should be summarized. I'm interested to hear if other editors agree. If so, I could make some more specific suggestions.
A more clear-cut issue is the inclusion of Fannie Mae. The Gingrich Group was not a consultant to Fannie Mae. I think whoever added this may have been confused. For accuracy's sake, someone should review this and determine themselves if they think this belongs.
That's probably enough for now. I'd like to get feedback from others about this. Thanks, Joedesantis ( talk) 20:38, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Today, it seems that there is a substantial backlash among many conservative pundits regarding Gingrich's criticism of Romney's involvement with Bain. I imagine this could wait a day or two to see if it is still an issue later in the week. Location ( talk) 05:56, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Add Sheldon Adelson connection regarding Political action committee#Super PACs? 99.181.131.215 ( talk) 00:51, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
There's currently a mention of both donations to Gingrich's SuperPAC. This may be undue.-- Brian Dell ( talk) 07:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
I don't want to start hitting a hornets nest but I am quite uncomfortable. It seems that the communicatios director of the Ginrich campaign is directing and shaping the communication into this Wikipedia article about his boss. I appreciate his candor and honesty for being forthright in identifying himself. But there is no way that I can see that he can be the impartial editor required to present ALL sides of the candidate, warts and all. He is duty bound to apply make-up to the warts and turn the facts so the camera (article) captures Newt's best side. That's his job!!!! Going forward this article will become a puff piece and be relatively useless as a source of information for our readers but extremelly useful as a political sales pitch for Mr. Gingrich's campaign. Wikipedia MUST stay impartial...above the fray!!! This is not about politics. Its about building an encyclopedia that ALL the public can trust... Buster Seven Talk 14:06, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Mr De Santis need not promise to never edit directly, for reasons explained here. According to Wikipedia policy on biographies
This article should be neither a puff piece nor a hit piece. Mr De Santis has been helpful with respect to avoiding the latter outcome, pointing attention to what he considers to be inaccuracies. These requests have been dealt with critically. Journalists will tell you that they welcome reviews by the subjects of their articles as a double-check. Having a subject comment does not turn something into a puff piece! In fact, I object to anonymous editors complaining about editors who have disclosed their affiliations. If all editors were fully transparent, editors would know that they are more accountable and irresponsible editing would be less likely. Those who move in the direction of disclosure are the last ones who should be challenged.-- Brian Dell ( talk) 00:39, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Why is this discussion even taking place here, and why has nobody
hatted it by now? The purpose of article talk pages is to discuss article content, not article editors.
User Joedesantis has been extremely straightforward in making his position within the Gingrich organization known. If there is an objection to article content changes made by him or at his suggestion, discuss those changes specifically. If you believe he has violated Wikipedia rules, which state "editors who have a connection to the subject fully comply with the conflicts of interest guideline when they discuss proposed changes on a talk page or make non-controversial edits in mainspace consistent with other Wikipedia policies and guidelines", then
WP:COI/N is that-a-way
.
Fat&Happy (
talk) 01:34, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Does that sentence really capture the dynamics of his exit? Its reminiscent of the elope/married controversy from Gov. Palins early entry onto the national scene. He didn't exit...he was escorted to the door by the Sergeant-at-Aarms. Kind of like being thrown out of the local moviehouse...theres leaving when the show is over and then theres leaving for throwing popcorn boxes at the screen. He left under duress with a bill for $300K. Not exactly peanuts to the average farmer. I have replaced it with... He stepped down as Speaker and resigned from the House in 1999
I agree with the change to "resigned", however, "like being thrown out of the local moviehouse" is not an accurate simile. Location ( talk) 08:25, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
The purpose of this talk page is to improve the article.
Asides about other editors, accusations about editors, personal attacks on other editors, removing of posts from other editors, are all abusive of talk page guidelines. IMO. Collect ( talk) 16:21, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Complete from the Guideline...The purpose of a Wikipedia talk page (accessible via the talk or discussion tab) is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page. Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views on a subject. All my Questions and comments involve changes that are, have been and will be made to this and other articles. I'm not going to the Home Office to discuss this. The editors that are editing this article are here. If some other editor wants to take the issue elsewhere, be my guest. My only Platform is the on-going maturization of the Encyclopeia and continued collaboration with almost every single editor I have ever met.``` Buster Seven Talk 19:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Although I am reluctant to remove material contributed by other editors I removed the addition of a robocall about kosher food made in late January. Firstly, Gingrich communications man DeSantis won't stand behind it, saying it was "unfortunate" it went out. While this does not settle the issue of notability, this article aims to give readers info about the campaign and its strategy and DeSantis says it's not part of the strategy. If this incident says something about the campaign's quality control or lack thereof, that would be different but it would be more convincing that there is a story there if this sort of thing were to to happen more than once. Secondly, many many ads have been run by both the Romney and Gingrich campaigns, many of them dubious in terms of their facts and their harshness. What is especially notable about this one? The ads that have been discussed in the article to date are generally ones that address themes that have come up before and/or can be expected to come up again in the general election. Romney's record with Bain Capital, including Damon Corp specifically, came up in Romney's Mass. campaigns and may well be issues again in the fall. Calling attention to them gives readers more info about Romney's candidacy. Advising readers as to what Romney really decided regarding kosher food also would provide info on that count but the info here is trivial and unlikely to come up again, not least because DeSantis said it won't be raised again by the Gingrich campaign. If a retrospective by other media sources on the Florida campaign were to identify this robocall as notable (e.g. llke the debates, the tenor and size of the ad war in general, etc) I would stand corrected.-- Brian Dell ( talk) 16:22, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
...was a notable event in Florida campaign, with significant coverage in multiple RSs. Inclusion of this topic in the Florida section of the article complied with WP:V, WP:RS, WP:NPOV etc. BDell reverted and I have restored it. Dell's rv ed sum said: "article will be massive if every ad or call discussed. Is there a theme here or is it trivial? Gingrich Comms Dir says this robocall won't run again" WP:IDON'TLIKEIT is a deficient argument. And the straw man argument re. a "massive" article if "every ad or call discussed" also fails to impress - nobody has suggested discussing every ad or call - and anyway, WP:SPINOFF can be implemented if/when needed as usual. To offer DeSantis's promise that the call won't happen again as a reason to exclude it from the article is patently absurd. Sorry but I can't even begin to take seriously an argument that this event in the Florida campaign, which received significant coverage in multiple RSs, should be excluded from the article on the grounds that Gingrich's campaign manager says "it won't happen again" ROFLMAO! We build the article according to what RS sources say, not what Gingrich's campaign manager says. Or do we? Writegeist ( talk) 18:14, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
So Gingrich didn't call Romney after Florida. [5] Is that really sufficiently significant and notable for inclusion? Somebody not calling somebody seems deeply non-eventful to me. I mean, if he'd called him and sworn at him or something, OK. But not calling him? Is that something we want to bother with? Who knows why he didn't call? He might have been a long time in the john, or dealing with some other kind of personal emergency, or just drowning his sorrows... Maybe he lost Romney's number. Maybe Romney blocked Gingrich's number. Who knows. Writegeist ( talk) 01:11, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
I'm concerned about this allegation as presented here. I reverted the anon IP's first iteration of the story, on the grounds of NPOV and RS (could have tossed in OR, SYNTH and BLP violation as well), and the IP reverted back with a fresh source (which, on the IP's talk page, I had suggested they look for to replace Ron Paul Forum or some such notice board and Yahoo News) but unrevised text, which bore very little relation to what was inthe source. Now this, which is equally a mess.
I don't want to revert the IP again, but I'm far from convinced that the incident merits inclusion yet, even if reduced to a couple of lines. Anyone else interested in knocking it into shape or removing it? Writegeist ( talk) 18:35, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
As the anonymous IP user... I disagree. This story was captured on a number of newspapers in Florida in addition to Yahoo news, Ron Paul's site, etc. It is a reflection of the actions of Gingrich staffers which if left unresolved is a reflection of Gingrich and his campaign. I'd gladly add Gingrich's actions to resolve/rectify if there were any or if there are any at a later time. Furthermore, it is a relevant snapshot of the type of campaign run overall (not just by Gingrich) where tensions have risen to this level. I question removing significant events in the Florida specific area for the Primary just because they may paint a negative picture of the candidate. It is what it is and the candidate is certainly capable of resolving positively the important piece of this specific primary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.247.17 ( talk) 20:33, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
I've reworded the section to remove any potential bias against Gingrich and present the story as alleged claims. If you want to add additional references I'm sure you can find them as well as me and add as many references as you want and by all means if Gingrich takes action it would be completely appropriate to also add that. It is a significant piece of news regarding the Florida campaign and therefore should be in this section. I've left the one papers reference... there are other papers and sites which have also reported this story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.183.18 ( talk) 20:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
FYI...this has now been picked up by the Huffington Post also http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/31/eddie-dillard-ron-paul-supporter-stomped-gingrich_n_1245650.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.183.18 ( talk) 21:25, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
And on CNN http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-740059 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.183.18 ( talk) 21:28, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Well I'm not sure what the problem with yahoo news is, doesn't matter to me. When multiple reputable sources such as Huffinton, CNN, other Florida papers reference it and when Ron Paul posts it on his page and asks for an apology and there are pictures of the incident on various news sites which show different angles from the one by yahoo news plus a picture of the injured foot. The event happened. It's there. It is an important part of the Florida primary. It is important to have in the record and about the only reason I can see to keep having issue with it is if there is some pressure or desire to keep everything positive. On the otherhand, I could have added that Newt is being sued for using Eye of the Tiger or a number of other issues but they did not seem to be significant to any part of the entry including the Florida Primary. 155.188.183.18 ( talk) 21:43, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
The best way to deal with this is leave the text as is and go back in to cite all the news sources which support the story. Yahoo News isn't an invalid source. I can certainly make reference to the pictures posted of the guys foot if that make everyone happy but otherwise that is the story, I've tried to make it as politically correct but the story is what it is. It is and will continue to be reported and is a significant part of the Florida Primary for many reasons. If you want to HELP by looking up all the sources and working your magic on the wording I'm open to that but removing it doesn't seem like the responsible thing to do given the importance of the event. IMHO 155.188.247.17 ( talk) 21:48, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
(od) I stuck with the one RS from Tampa Bay paper - which is then given reasonable weight - not all that major a story in fact, and precisous little to do with any actual campaign story. Collect ( talk) 15:14, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
(od) I stuck with the one RS from Tampa Bay paper - which is then given reasonable weight - not all that major a story in fact, and precisous little to do with any actual campaign story. Collect ( talk) 15:14, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Do we need to report a violation of the 3RR or get an admin lock on this? Location ( talk) 01:35, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
(od) This article must conform to WP:BLP and WP:RS. Material which is not relevant does not belong in any article, and contentious claims must be sourced to more than a single source (that is, more than just the claim by the person that he was grievously injured). Thus the mention of the incident should not mention the "victim"'s name and should be conservatively worded according to what reliable sources state independently. And I assure you WG is not editwarring here - it is the one editor who is using multiple IP addresses who is so acting. Collect ( talk) 01:52, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Not sure about the IP or anyone else, but I like Buster7's edits. Appears to meet WP:BLP, WP:NPOV, WP:RS and WP:WEIGHT Goodbyz ( talk) 01:23, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
The anonymous editor makes mention of the suit regarding use of a copyrighted mentioned song. While the Ron Paul supporter incident may have no life, I believe some mention should be made of Mr. Sullivans lawsuit.[ [8]]. While the foot grinding of Mr Dillard was a poor decision by remote field staff, the decision on what songs to use at events was more than likely a major consideration of key campaign personel. Verification of the suit should be no problem: many reliable news sources have reported it. What is the current guideline? Do we wait for Mr Desantis to decide whether mention of the lawsuit can be included or can we "be Bold" and edit the article?``` Buster Seven Talk 15:03, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should the story regarding alleged assault of a Ron Paul supporter by Newt Gingrich's security personnel be included in this article? Location ( talk) 21:06, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Heads-up for those regular to this article. I just saw on the CNN scrolling ticker: "Gingrich spokesman defends Wikipedia edits". On-line here. Location ( talk) 21:10, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
(EC)If I may. Let me at least be clear to my fellow editors. I am mentioned in the article here. as commending User:Joe's straightforwardness. I even gave him a barnstar for it. In hindsight, I was more than a bit hasty in my praise. I was and still am very troubled by editing, either by a paid operative or a volunteer proxy of that operative, that is obviously swayed to favor Newt Gingrich or any subject polititian. I e-mailed Jimbo with my concerns and the result was Jimbo's seal of approval posted on Joe's page. Dissapointing!!! The whole thing stinks. The "third wife" edit is beyond me. And how any editor can not see the subversive quality of making that edit is also beyond me. What will happen in the general election? What kind of precautions are planned for operative manipulation of our product? Jimbo seems to think that we are watchdogs; on duty 24/7 to protect all the articles neutrality. I am uncomfortable with the whole mess. It does not bode well for Wikipedias reputation.``` Buster Seven Talk 01:30, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Can someone else with more experience chime in here? I do not doubt my OCD with regard to use of the word 'that' ever since my English prof beat it into me. Removing conversational/subordinate 'that' is a more professional presentation which seems appropriate for an encyclopedia. Does anyone have a strong feeling or hurt feelings if one were to remove extra unnecessary 'that's? I did that on a few topics today as I noticed them (nails on chalk board) and they were reversed by Reichsfurst. I am not falling on my sword over it but do not see harm in making the entries more professional like fixing spelling and punctuation changes. Justify265 ( talk) 16:09, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
I teach English. Believe it or not, it is actually more correct to use "that" in most cases. I'll admit that it's more of a stylistic thing than a mechanical thing, but omitting "that" as a relative pronoun from the beginning of a clause creates what is known as an "elliptical clause." I haven't looked at the changes that were made, but I'm just weighing in here and trying to be useful. Elliptical clauses aren't wrong, but they really aren't the best way to write something stylistically - rather like syntactic expletives (sentences starting with "there is", "it is", etc.); they're not wrong, but the sentence can usually be written in a stronger way. Simply put, removing "that" in too many cases is akin to removing "which" or "who". Sleddog116 ( talk) 18:35, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
I just realized that the reference I used for my recent edit [ [17]] may cause confusion. The info re:# of delegates is on the right side of the page with a box that says "Launch Dashboard". If there is a better source for the info, please make any change necessary.``` Buster Seven Talk 16:11, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
Earlier today, someone added a summary of a recent National Review editorial critical of Newt Gingrich to the "February" section. I have no problem with the editorial being mentioned, but I do wonder if other editors would agree the lengthy blockquote isn't necessary, and gives disproportionate weight to the single source. I think that, if this only consisted of the description above and below the blockquote, or the description with a quoted phrase, readers would lose no important details. Just looking to start a discussion, since I hadn't seen any about it. Thanks, Joe DeSantis Communications Director, Gingrich 2012 ( talk) 00:41, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
It was a request that wouldn't have had to have been made if someone else had fixed the problem with "alacrity." If there wasn't a problem in someone's view that topic should be discussed not Joe DeSantis, as this Talk page is for discussing improvements to the article. Joe DeSantis' requests can be, are, and should be treated like the usual edit requests on protected articles.-- Brian Dell ( talk) 03:12, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
No, actually, I disagree with this. The "edit request" template is primarily for articles that are full-protected, and the purpose is for error correction or requests for non-controversial edits of protected pages while whatever is in dispute is hashed out. Editors would be discussing such requests on talk where needed, and then admins would post the edits, if those suggestions aren't about the very dispute the page was protected against. (And similarly for semi-protected pages vis-a-vis IPs and new editors.) In my opinion, it is not appropriate or desirable for the campaign's "suggestions" to be more quickly noticed and posted by an editor who comes across it on Cat: Requested edits - the whole point, I think, is that the campaign's suggestions should be given extra scrutiny, not super-speed implementation, so that it is clear that there is a consensus among the editors who are most familiar with the ins and and outs of the article and the subtleties and potential campaign slant of these suggestions.
I think Joe attempted here to ask for discussion, and I do not see where "alacrity" is at all desirable or necessary in this kind of edit which did not involve vandalism or blatant error, just a discomfort about "overquoting" negative material. That has been my point all along in this matter - the Gingrich campaign's identification of factual errors - something that of course is more obvious to them than anyone else - is helpful. The Gingrich campaign's preferences for how the candidate's wife is referred to, for example (see discussions on Talk: Callista Gingrich re "third wife"), or their unhappiness with an extended criticism of their candidate in a conservative magazine, I believe goes beyond their proper role, and the almost instant implementation of the suggestion which was accompanied by a request for discussion, brings home to me why the overall project would be better off without campaign operatives' input.
I recognize full well that Joe or anyone from this or any other campaign of any party on their guy's article could well be here under pseudonyms, and doing their slanting with impunity. But I believe the process works - there are enough editors on all sides of issues and on no side of issues, to keep these articles balanced, accurate, and shaped in the way they want, without any chilling effect or hesitance to shoot down the respectfully worded campaign requests. Joe is doing what we told him is ok to do - my quarrel is not with how he has proceeded after he stopped editing directly - my concern, as I have said, is that we have here an imbalance, where by definition he is going to be viewed as more of an "expert" on the subject than the rest of us, but his expertise is of course biased, and I think the organic development and editing of articles by people with opinions of course, but not paychecks fueling them, is what makes Wikipedia great. Tvoz/ talk 22:20, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
Recent press has highlighted Newt's focus on energy policies as a key theme of the campaign at this point, however this is not currently mentioned in the article. Based on a number of reports, I have drafted a potential addition to the "February" section, which I'd like to ask other editors to consider for inclusion. The following is my proposed wording:
Here is the markup:
At the least, I'd like to open up a discussion on whether this topic should be mentioned in the article, particularly as it has received much press coverage and is seen as a key issue in the campaign. Thanks, Joe DeSantis Communications Director, Gingrich 2012 ( talk) 18:23, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
Action |
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Those who feel the need to make controversial edits, in spite of a real or perceived conflict of interest, are strongly encouraged to submit proposed edits for review on the article's talk page along with a {{ Request edit}} tag to attract users to review the edit, or to file a request for comment. |
``` Buster Seven Talk 04:23, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Amazingly enough, the new "rule" and the person creating this new "rule", and the person presenting it here, seem a tad related. The "rule", in short, does not exist in any Wikipedia policy at all. And everyone should be "careful" on every article. See WP:PIECE. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 13:09, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
I note that JDS has started using the strongly recommended template, so that he now follows the COI guidelines to the fullest possible extent. Which is most commendable. Kenatipo, as you also have a self-declared COI (thank you for posting the template), are you willing to stop directly editing Gingrich-related articles on JDS's behalf - i.e. implementing the changes he requests - and instead leave such requests for other, non-COI editors to discuss and/or implement? Writegeist ( talk) 19:08, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Please see [19] and then we can discuss. ``` Buster Seven Talk 04:12, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
The "2011: campaign kick-off and developments" section of this article reads like a giant criticism section making up more than half the article. I would like to see a more neutral point of view. Bzweebl 14:55, 11 March 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bzweebl ( talk • contribs)
A user has changed the info box to list Joe DeSantis as press secretary and RC Hammond as communications director. JDS still declares himself as communications director on his UP. Sources variously identify Hammond as "Gingrich aide", "campaign spokesman" and "press secretary". So is the change correct? Or an error made in good faith? Or vandalism? Writegeist ( talk) 21:17, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Newt Gingrich has a history of bounced checks. The most recent is the $500 bounced check his campaign submitted to the Utah elections office as payment for the fee to appear on the primary ballot. While the reason given (the check was drafted months ago and the account was subsequently closed) is understandable, it is embarrassing to the campaign. Perhaps the communications director and his staff can draft a sentence that will limit the predictable negative effect on the campaign. I'm sure the replacement check is in the mail and the story will have a happy ending. But, in the meantime, how do WE include this faux pas? ``` Buster Seven Talk 06:00, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
"...of the top twenty-two check-kiters identified by the [House Ethics] committee, nineteen were Democrats. Gingrich then pressured House Speaker Tom Foley to publicly release the names of all members who had written bad checks [on their House Bank accounts]. Foley, who only wanted to identify the top twenty-two, capitulated and released the entire list. In an early sign of things to come, it was revealed that Gingrich had written twenty bad checks against his own account." Brian Thornton, The Book of Bastards: 101 Worst Scoundrels and Scandals from the World of Politics and Power, Adams Media 2010.
"Among the abusers from the Republican side was Newt Gingrich, the minority whip, who had written twenty-two bad checks with a face value totaling $26,891." Ron Kessler, Inside Congress, Pocket Books 1998.
From the UK Guardian, we read: ... To Quote: “... ... ... According to the RealClearPolitics website, which was given access to the meeting, Gingrich said: "I think Fox has been for Romney all the way through. In our experience, Callista and I both believe CNN is less biased than Fox this year. We are more likely to get neutral coverage out of CNN than we are of Fox, and we're more likely to get distortion out of Fox. That's just a fact." [And to continue quoting the UK Guardian article] "Fox hit back in a strongly personal attack. In a statement provided to the Guardian, it said: "This is nothing other than Newt auditioning for a windfall of a gig at CNN – that's the kind of man he is. Not to mention that he's still bitter about the fact that we terminated his contributor contract." [20] Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 14:09, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
At this point, the website is the campaign. We should describe it and mention any peculiarities covered in the press.-- William S. Saturn ( talk) 20:14, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
I've added this relevant detail and I trust that this is OK, despite my relationship to Mr. Gingrich. -- Joedesantis ( talk) 17:25, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
I would like to suggest a new short paragraph for this article, perhaps as a third heading under the "Campaign developments" section. As Newt is on the trail he will be making announcements and some have already received significant coverage. One from this week I think can be treated in an encyclopedic manner, and I've written a short section with a short description and two sources. Because of my role with the campaign, I'd like to invite another editor to review this and consider it for use in the article. And if you do add it, feel free to delete this here if you like. Thanks, Joedesantis ( talk) 18:20, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
On Wednesday, June 8, during an appearance at C&M Machine Products in Hudson, New Hampshire, Gingrich signed the "Strong America Now" pledge, which calls for a 25% reduction in federal government spending and to start paying down the national debt by 2017, becoming the first Republican candidate to do so. [1] [2]
I am starting a list of stories about the Gingrich campaign that I think could be useful in this article. I'd like to encourage any editor who decides to work on this article to consider these reliable sources for inclusion in the article at any time. I will continue to add useful links on occasion, and try to respond to any questions as quickly as I can. Thanks, Joedesantis ( talk) 13:39, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
June 2011 |
---|
On 6/22 Newt Gingrich called for a "dramatically limited Federal Reserve," arguing the Fed supported Libya during the financial crisis. From the article: "A New York subsidiary of Bahrain-based Arab Banking Corp. was among many foreign banks the Fed lent to during the crisis to prevent a global financial meltdown. The Libyan government has a large stake in the bank, though Fed officials have said most of the stake was purchased by Tripoli after the bank's loans from the Fed were repaid. A Fed spokeswoman declined to comment." -- " GOP Candidates Set Sights on Fed," Wall Street Journal, June 22, 2011. |
* On 6/28 Newt Gingrich signed the Cut, Cap and Balance pledge urging Congress to oppose raising the debt ceiling limit unless the following conditions are met: a) cuts to federal spending to reduce the debt, b) caps on federal spending, and c) passage of a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution. Article also notes: "Gingrich was Speaker of the House when Congress balanced the budget during the Clinton administration. -- " Gingrich signs Cut, Cap and Balance pledge," The Daily Caller, June 28, 2011. |
July 2011 |
* Tony Blankley comments on Newt Gingrich's campaign trail discussion of Alzheimer's as an issue, pointing out that it is neither new issue for him, nor is it a "niche" issue: "I remember Newt talking to me about the coming crisis in Alzheimer’s back in the 1990s. And in 2007, the Alzheimer's Association along with the Congressional Task Force on Alzheimer’s Disease called for the creation of the Alzheimer’s Study Group. Newt was named co-chairman, along with former Democratic Sen. Bob Kerrey. ... The bipartisan study Newt co-chaired reported that unless there are breakthroughs in the diagnosis, treatment and reduction in the rate of Alzheimer’s, Medicare and Medicaid will spend nearly $20 trillion on the treatment and care of the disease by the middle of the century - a trillion dollars a year by 2050." -- " Newt is no niche candidate," Tony Blankley, The Washington Times, July 5, 2011. |
* Politico reported on Gingrich's Twitter following, the biggest among the GOP presidential candidates: "Gingrich has a whopping 1.3 million followers on the popular social media site. His three closest Twitter rivals from the 2012 GOP presidential field, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and Reps. Ron Paul and Michele Bachmann, all hover around 60,000 followers apiece. Even Twitter enthusiast Sarah Palin, who hasn’t indicated whether she’ll run, has less than half the followers Gingrich does." --" Newt Gingrich miles ahead in Twitter primary", Politico, July 12, 2011. |
* TechPresident covered Gingrich's announced hosting of a video "hangout" on the new Google+ website, dicussing "everything from the space program to Thucydides with a slowly rotating cast of up to 10 Americans at a time. ... Gingrich took the time to throw questions back at some of the other nine participants, such as a professor of political philosophy who interrupted some study of Socrates to participate." The article compared it to "the online version of a campaign stop at a New Hampshire diner." --" The +Newt Gingrich Google Hangout: How'd That Go?" Nick Judd, TechPresident, July 13, 2011. |
Do we know if Newt is betting the farm on a run in South Carolina or is he building an operation in other states as well? Manofmyth ( talk) 01:49, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
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Gingrich has lived in Virginia since 1999. Per the Cheney precedent, isn't a candidate's "home state" determined by the last place he voted? - Kudzu1 ( talk) 16:40, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
I have no motivation in engaging in the American Presidential Election nor in any conservative vs democrats laundry...but I cannot believe how much my edits have been washed in one single day: [ 10 December 2011 ] to present [ 11 December 2011].
What is the purpose, to potray Ginrich in a more favorable light or simply to provide some [ original research]-- Caygill ( talk) 16:29, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm a little unsure how to proceed with the final section. It's clear he's frontrunner, and it's clear he is getting a lot more criticism as of late. I personally would like a section to the effect of Frontrunner: increased criticism. In all objectivity, that would be the best way of handling it, but a lot of editors want to highlight controversies and push undue weight on week by week statements. It does not make sense to do that, as I expect editors will start pushing sections into this on a day by day, week by week basis dedicated to gaffes and controversies. I would like to have a discussion with those who want sections here, because it is not an easy judgment to make on how to constitute, name, and divvy up sections, and I know it will be done soon.-- Screwball23 talk 06:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Hello, my name is Joe DeSantis and I am the communications director for Mr. Gingrich's presidential campaign. I have previously made edit requests and provided source material on this talk page, and I hope to be able to suggest changes and be of assistance in providing information once again. In recent months there have been a large number of changes to this article and, while many have introduced good material, I do have concerns about some. I'll address them as follows:
In addition, an image of the NR cover was added to the section with a caption "Gingrich parodied on the cover of National Review, which urged its readers not to vote for him". The inclusion of this material perhaps gives too much weight to a single magazine piece. No other source (critical or otherwise) has been given such coverage in the article. I suggest that the NR could be added to the list of critics at the end of the section, and ask if the cover is really necessary (especially considering it is a copyrighted image).
Due to my relationship to Newt, I would appreciate input from other editors and hope to reach agreement in addressing these issues. Thanks, Joedesantis ( talk) 21:34, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
To whom it may concern: I'm Joe DeSantis, the communications director for Newt's campaign. I have noticed this article does not currently have a section about the caucus and primary results, although similar articles for the Romney, Santorum and Paul campaigns do. I've put together a paragraph that I think would work here:
Here is the markup code:
To summarize, the first sentence is a straight summary of the results, the second addresses Gingrich's performance, from his perspective. The third addresses Gingrich's performance, as summarized by the mainstream media. Maybe you will think it's slightly favorable in this writing, but the San Francisco Chronicle article is pretty representative of the post-caucus coverage. Similar stories were filed by NPR, New York Times and Politico. I wish to avoid adding this section myself, and would like another editor to consider its inclusion, but I may if another editor expresses agreement here. Thanks. Joedesantis ( talk) 02:10, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to offer another suggestion for this entry, and it concerns the " Top tier candidate" section. I have noticed that it includes a lot of material on the Gingrich Group's work for Freddie Mac. I realize this was at issue in the debates in November, and I understand that it needs to be here. However, about half of the section focuses on this subject, while there is little to no mention of other topics from those debates. My opinion is that it probably includes too much about Freddie, and should be summarized. I'm interested to hear if other editors agree. If so, I could make some more specific suggestions.
A more clear-cut issue is the inclusion of Fannie Mae. The Gingrich Group was not a consultant to Fannie Mae. I think whoever added this may have been confused. For accuracy's sake, someone should review this and determine themselves if they think this belongs.
That's probably enough for now. I'd like to get feedback from others about this. Thanks, Joedesantis ( talk) 20:38, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Today, it seems that there is a substantial backlash among many conservative pundits regarding Gingrich's criticism of Romney's involvement with Bain. I imagine this could wait a day or two to see if it is still an issue later in the week. Location ( talk) 05:56, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Add Sheldon Adelson connection regarding Political action committee#Super PACs? 99.181.131.215 ( talk) 00:51, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
There's currently a mention of both donations to Gingrich's SuperPAC. This may be undue.-- Brian Dell ( talk) 07:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
I don't want to start hitting a hornets nest but I am quite uncomfortable. It seems that the communicatios director of the Ginrich campaign is directing and shaping the communication into this Wikipedia article about his boss. I appreciate his candor and honesty for being forthright in identifying himself. But there is no way that I can see that he can be the impartial editor required to present ALL sides of the candidate, warts and all. He is duty bound to apply make-up to the warts and turn the facts so the camera (article) captures Newt's best side. That's his job!!!! Going forward this article will become a puff piece and be relatively useless as a source of information for our readers but extremelly useful as a political sales pitch for Mr. Gingrich's campaign. Wikipedia MUST stay impartial...above the fray!!! This is not about politics. Its about building an encyclopedia that ALL the public can trust... Buster Seven Talk 14:06, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Mr De Santis need not promise to never edit directly, for reasons explained here. According to Wikipedia policy on biographies
This article should be neither a puff piece nor a hit piece. Mr De Santis has been helpful with respect to avoiding the latter outcome, pointing attention to what he considers to be inaccuracies. These requests have been dealt with critically. Journalists will tell you that they welcome reviews by the subjects of their articles as a double-check. Having a subject comment does not turn something into a puff piece! In fact, I object to anonymous editors complaining about editors who have disclosed their affiliations. If all editors were fully transparent, editors would know that they are more accountable and irresponsible editing would be less likely. Those who move in the direction of disclosure are the last ones who should be challenged.-- Brian Dell ( talk) 00:39, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Why is this discussion even taking place here, and why has nobody
hatted it by now? The purpose of article talk pages is to discuss article content, not article editors.
User Joedesantis has been extremely straightforward in making his position within the Gingrich organization known. If there is an objection to article content changes made by him or at his suggestion, discuss those changes specifically. If you believe he has violated Wikipedia rules, which state "editors who have a connection to the subject fully comply with the conflicts of interest guideline when they discuss proposed changes on a talk page or make non-controversial edits in mainspace consistent with other Wikipedia policies and guidelines", then
WP:COI/N is that-a-way
.
Fat&Happy (
talk) 01:34, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Does that sentence really capture the dynamics of his exit? Its reminiscent of the elope/married controversy from Gov. Palins early entry onto the national scene. He didn't exit...he was escorted to the door by the Sergeant-at-Aarms. Kind of like being thrown out of the local moviehouse...theres leaving when the show is over and then theres leaving for throwing popcorn boxes at the screen. He left under duress with a bill for $300K. Not exactly peanuts to the average farmer. I have replaced it with... He stepped down as Speaker and resigned from the House in 1999
I agree with the change to "resigned", however, "like being thrown out of the local moviehouse" is not an accurate simile. Location ( talk) 08:25, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
The purpose of this talk page is to improve the article.
Asides about other editors, accusations about editors, personal attacks on other editors, removing of posts from other editors, are all abusive of talk page guidelines. IMO. Collect ( talk) 16:21, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Complete from the Guideline...The purpose of a Wikipedia talk page (accessible via the talk or discussion tab) is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page. Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views on a subject. All my Questions and comments involve changes that are, have been and will be made to this and other articles. I'm not going to the Home Office to discuss this. The editors that are editing this article are here. If some other editor wants to take the issue elsewhere, be my guest. My only Platform is the on-going maturization of the Encyclopeia and continued collaboration with almost every single editor I have ever met.``` Buster Seven Talk 19:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Although I am reluctant to remove material contributed by other editors I removed the addition of a robocall about kosher food made in late January. Firstly, Gingrich communications man DeSantis won't stand behind it, saying it was "unfortunate" it went out. While this does not settle the issue of notability, this article aims to give readers info about the campaign and its strategy and DeSantis says it's not part of the strategy. If this incident says something about the campaign's quality control or lack thereof, that would be different but it would be more convincing that there is a story there if this sort of thing were to to happen more than once. Secondly, many many ads have been run by both the Romney and Gingrich campaigns, many of them dubious in terms of their facts and their harshness. What is especially notable about this one? The ads that have been discussed in the article to date are generally ones that address themes that have come up before and/or can be expected to come up again in the general election. Romney's record with Bain Capital, including Damon Corp specifically, came up in Romney's Mass. campaigns and may well be issues again in the fall. Calling attention to them gives readers more info about Romney's candidacy. Advising readers as to what Romney really decided regarding kosher food also would provide info on that count but the info here is trivial and unlikely to come up again, not least because DeSantis said it won't be raised again by the Gingrich campaign. If a retrospective by other media sources on the Florida campaign were to identify this robocall as notable (e.g. llke the debates, the tenor and size of the ad war in general, etc) I would stand corrected.-- Brian Dell ( talk) 16:22, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
...was a notable event in Florida campaign, with significant coverage in multiple RSs. Inclusion of this topic in the Florida section of the article complied with WP:V, WP:RS, WP:NPOV etc. BDell reverted and I have restored it. Dell's rv ed sum said: "article will be massive if every ad or call discussed. Is there a theme here or is it trivial? Gingrich Comms Dir says this robocall won't run again" WP:IDON'TLIKEIT is a deficient argument. And the straw man argument re. a "massive" article if "every ad or call discussed" also fails to impress - nobody has suggested discussing every ad or call - and anyway, WP:SPINOFF can be implemented if/when needed as usual. To offer DeSantis's promise that the call won't happen again as a reason to exclude it from the article is patently absurd. Sorry but I can't even begin to take seriously an argument that this event in the Florida campaign, which received significant coverage in multiple RSs, should be excluded from the article on the grounds that Gingrich's campaign manager says "it won't happen again" ROFLMAO! We build the article according to what RS sources say, not what Gingrich's campaign manager says. Or do we? Writegeist ( talk) 18:14, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
So Gingrich didn't call Romney after Florida. [5] Is that really sufficiently significant and notable for inclusion? Somebody not calling somebody seems deeply non-eventful to me. I mean, if he'd called him and sworn at him or something, OK. But not calling him? Is that something we want to bother with? Who knows why he didn't call? He might have been a long time in the john, or dealing with some other kind of personal emergency, or just drowning his sorrows... Maybe he lost Romney's number. Maybe Romney blocked Gingrich's number. Who knows. Writegeist ( talk) 01:11, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
I'm concerned about this allegation as presented here. I reverted the anon IP's first iteration of the story, on the grounds of NPOV and RS (could have tossed in OR, SYNTH and BLP violation as well), and the IP reverted back with a fresh source (which, on the IP's talk page, I had suggested they look for to replace Ron Paul Forum or some such notice board and Yahoo News) but unrevised text, which bore very little relation to what was inthe source. Now this, which is equally a mess.
I don't want to revert the IP again, but I'm far from convinced that the incident merits inclusion yet, even if reduced to a couple of lines. Anyone else interested in knocking it into shape or removing it? Writegeist ( talk) 18:35, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
As the anonymous IP user... I disagree. This story was captured on a number of newspapers in Florida in addition to Yahoo news, Ron Paul's site, etc. It is a reflection of the actions of Gingrich staffers which if left unresolved is a reflection of Gingrich and his campaign. I'd gladly add Gingrich's actions to resolve/rectify if there were any or if there are any at a later time. Furthermore, it is a relevant snapshot of the type of campaign run overall (not just by Gingrich) where tensions have risen to this level. I question removing significant events in the Florida specific area for the Primary just because they may paint a negative picture of the candidate. It is what it is and the candidate is certainly capable of resolving positively the important piece of this specific primary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.247.17 ( talk) 20:33, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
I've reworded the section to remove any potential bias against Gingrich and present the story as alleged claims. If you want to add additional references I'm sure you can find them as well as me and add as many references as you want and by all means if Gingrich takes action it would be completely appropriate to also add that. It is a significant piece of news regarding the Florida campaign and therefore should be in this section. I've left the one papers reference... there are other papers and sites which have also reported this story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.183.18 ( talk) 20:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
FYI...this has now been picked up by the Huffington Post also http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/31/eddie-dillard-ron-paul-supporter-stomped-gingrich_n_1245650.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.183.18 ( talk) 21:25, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
And on CNN http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-740059 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.183.18 ( talk) 21:28, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Well I'm not sure what the problem with yahoo news is, doesn't matter to me. When multiple reputable sources such as Huffinton, CNN, other Florida papers reference it and when Ron Paul posts it on his page and asks for an apology and there are pictures of the incident on various news sites which show different angles from the one by yahoo news plus a picture of the injured foot. The event happened. It's there. It is an important part of the Florida primary. It is important to have in the record and about the only reason I can see to keep having issue with it is if there is some pressure or desire to keep everything positive. On the otherhand, I could have added that Newt is being sued for using Eye of the Tiger or a number of other issues but they did not seem to be significant to any part of the entry including the Florida Primary. 155.188.183.18 ( talk) 21:43, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
The best way to deal with this is leave the text as is and go back in to cite all the news sources which support the story. Yahoo News isn't an invalid source. I can certainly make reference to the pictures posted of the guys foot if that make everyone happy but otherwise that is the story, I've tried to make it as politically correct but the story is what it is. It is and will continue to be reported and is a significant part of the Florida Primary for many reasons. If you want to HELP by looking up all the sources and working your magic on the wording I'm open to that but removing it doesn't seem like the responsible thing to do given the importance of the event. IMHO 155.188.247.17 ( talk) 21:48, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
(od) I stuck with the one RS from Tampa Bay paper - which is then given reasonable weight - not all that major a story in fact, and precisous little to do with any actual campaign story. Collect ( talk) 15:14, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
(od) I stuck with the one RS from Tampa Bay paper - which is then given reasonable weight - not all that major a story in fact, and precisous little to do with any actual campaign story. Collect ( talk) 15:14, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Do we need to report a violation of the 3RR or get an admin lock on this? Location ( talk) 01:35, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
(od) This article must conform to WP:BLP and WP:RS. Material which is not relevant does not belong in any article, and contentious claims must be sourced to more than a single source (that is, more than just the claim by the person that he was grievously injured). Thus the mention of the incident should not mention the "victim"'s name and should be conservatively worded according to what reliable sources state independently. And I assure you WG is not editwarring here - it is the one editor who is using multiple IP addresses who is so acting. Collect ( talk) 01:52, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Not sure about the IP or anyone else, but I like Buster7's edits. Appears to meet WP:BLP, WP:NPOV, WP:RS and WP:WEIGHT Goodbyz ( talk) 01:23, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
The anonymous editor makes mention of the suit regarding use of a copyrighted mentioned song. While the Ron Paul supporter incident may have no life, I believe some mention should be made of Mr. Sullivans lawsuit.[ [8]]. While the foot grinding of Mr Dillard was a poor decision by remote field staff, the decision on what songs to use at events was more than likely a major consideration of key campaign personel. Verification of the suit should be no problem: many reliable news sources have reported it. What is the current guideline? Do we wait for Mr Desantis to decide whether mention of the lawsuit can be included or can we "be Bold" and edit the article?``` Buster Seven Talk 15:03, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should the story regarding alleged assault of a Ron Paul supporter by Newt Gingrich's security personnel be included in this article? Location ( talk) 21:06, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Heads-up for those regular to this article. I just saw on the CNN scrolling ticker: "Gingrich spokesman defends Wikipedia edits". On-line here. Location ( talk) 21:10, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
(EC)If I may. Let me at least be clear to my fellow editors. I am mentioned in the article here. as commending User:Joe's straightforwardness. I even gave him a barnstar for it. In hindsight, I was more than a bit hasty in my praise. I was and still am very troubled by editing, either by a paid operative or a volunteer proxy of that operative, that is obviously swayed to favor Newt Gingrich or any subject polititian. I e-mailed Jimbo with my concerns and the result was Jimbo's seal of approval posted on Joe's page. Dissapointing!!! The whole thing stinks. The "third wife" edit is beyond me. And how any editor can not see the subversive quality of making that edit is also beyond me. What will happen in the general election? What kind of precautions are planned for operative manipulation of our product? Jimbo seems to think that we are watchdogs; on duty 24/7 to protect all the articles neutrality. I am uncomfortable with the whole mess. It does not bode well for Wikipedias reputation.``` Buster Seven Talk 01:30, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Can someone else with more experience chime in here? I do not doubt my OCD with regard to use of the word 'that' ever since my English prof beat it into me. Removing conversational/subordinate 'that' is a more professional presentation which seems appropriate for an encyclopedia. Does anyone have a strong feeling or hurt feelings if one were to remove extra unnecessary 'that's? I did that on a few topics today as I noticed them (nails on chalk board) and they were reversed by Reichsfurst. I am not falling on my sword over it but do not see harm in making the entries more professional like fixing spelling and punctuation changes. Justify265 ( talk) 16:09, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
I teach English. Believe it or not, it is actually more correct to use "that" in most cases. I'll admit that it's more of a stylistic thing than a mechanical thing, but omitting "that" as a relative pronoun from the beginning of a clause creates what is known as an "elliptical clause." I haven't looked at the changes that were made, but I'm just weighing in here and trying to be useful. Elliptical clauses aren't wrong, but they really aren't the best way to write something stylistically - rather like syntactic expletives (sentences starting with "there is", "it is", etc.); they're not wrong, but the sentence can usually be written in a stronger way. Simply put, removing "that" in too many cases is akin to removing "which" or "who". Sleddog116 ( talk) 18:35, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
I just realized that the reference I used for my recent edit [ [17]] may cause confusion. The info re:# of delegates is on the right side of the page with a box that says "Launch Dashboard". If there is a better source for the info, please make any change necessary.``` Buster Seven Talk 16:11, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
Earlier today, someone added a summary of a recent National Review editorial critical of Newt Gingrich to the "February" section. I have no problem with the editorial being mentioned, but I do wonder if other editors would agree the lengthy blockquote isn't necessary, and gives disproportionate weight to the single source. I think that, if this only consisted of the description above and below the blockquote, or the description with a quoted phrase, readers would lose no important details. Just looking to start a discussion, since I hadn't seen any about it. Thanks, Joe DeSantis Communications Director, Gingrich 2012 ( talk) 00:41, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
It was a request that wouldn't have had to have been made if someone else had fixed the problem with "alacrity." If there wasn't a problem in someone's view that topic should be discussed not Joe DeSantis, as this Talk page is for discussing improvements to the article. Joe DeSantis' requests can be, are, and should be treated like the usual edit requests on protected articles.-- Brian Dell ( talk) 03:12, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
No, actually, I disagree with this. The "edit request" template is primarily for articles that are full-protected, and the purpose is for error correction or requests for non-controversial edits of protected pages while whatever is in dispute is hashed out. Editors would be discussing such requests on talk where needed, and then admins would post the edits, if those suggestions aren't about the very dispute the page was protected against. (And similarly for semi-protected pages vis-a-vis IPs and new editors.) In my opinion, it is not appropriate or desirable for the campaign's "suggestions" to be more quickly noticed and posted by an editor who comes across it on Cat: Requested edits - the whole point, I think, is that the campaign's suggestions should be given extra scrutiny, not super-speed implementation, so that it is clear that there is a consensus among the editors who are most familiar with the ins and and outs of the article and the subtleties and potential campaign slant of these suggestions.
I think Joe attempted here to ask for discussion, and I do not see where "alacrity" is at all desirable or necessary in this kind of edit which did not involve vandalism or blatant error, just a discomfort about "overquoting" negative material. That has been my point all along in this matter - the Gingrich campaign's identification of factual errors - something that of course is more obvious to them than anyone else - is helpful. The Gingrich campaign's preferences for how the candidate's wife is referred to, for example (see discussions on Talk: Callista Gingrich re "third wife"), or their unhappiness with an extended criticism of their candidate in a conservative magazine, I believe goes beyond their proper role, and the almost instant implementation of the suggestion which was accompanied by a request for discussion, brings home to me why the overall project would be better off without campaign operatives' input.
I recognize full well that Joe or anyone from this or any other campaign of any party on their guy's article could well be here under pseudonyms, and doing their slanting with impunity. But I believe the process works - there are enough editors on all sides of issues and on no side of issues, to keep these articles balanced, accurate, and shaped in the way they want, without any chilling effect or hesitance to shoot down the respectfully worded campaign requests. Joe is doing what we told him is ok to do - my quarrel is not with how he has proceeded after he stopped editing directly - my concern, as I have said, is that we have here an imbalance, where by definition he is going to be viewed as more of an "expert" on the subject than the rest of us, but his expertise is of course biased, and I think the organic development and editing of articles by people with opinions of course, but not paychecks fueling them, is what makes Wikipedia great. Tvoz/ talk 22:20, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
Recent press has highlighted Newt's focus on energy policies as a key theme of the campaign at this point, however this is not currently mentioned in the article. Based on a number of reports, I have drafted a potential addition to the "February" section, which I'd like to ask other editors to consider for inclusion. The following is my proposed wording:
Here is the markup:
At the least, I'd like to open up a discussion on whether this topic should be mentioned in the article, particularly as it has received much press coverage and is seen as a key issue in the campaign. Thanks, Joe DeSantis Communications Director, Gingrich 2012 ( talk) 18:23, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
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Those who feel the need to make controversial edits, in spite of a real or perceived conflict of interest, are strongly encouraged to submit proposed edits for review on the article's talk page along with a {{ Request edit}} tag to attract users to review the edit, or to file a request for comment. |
``` Buster Seven Talk 04:23, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Amazingly enough, the new "rule" and the person creating this new "rule", and the person presenting it here, seem a tad related. The "rule", in short, does not exist in any Wikipedia policy at all. And everyone should be "careful" on every article. See WP:PIECE. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 13:09, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
I note that JDS has started using the strongly recommended template, so that he now follows the COI guidelines to the fullest possible extent. Which is most commendable. Kenatipo, as you also have a self-declared COI (thank you for posting the template), are you willing to stop directly editing Gingrich-related articles on JDS's behalf - i.e. implementing the changes he requests - and instead leave such requests for other, non-COI editors to discuss and/or implement? Writegeist ( talk) 19:08, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Please see [19] and then we can discuss. ``` Buster Seven Talk 04:12, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
The "2011: campaign kick-off and developments" section of this article reads like a giant criticism section making up more than half the article. I would like to see a more neutral point of view. Bzweebl 14:55, 11 March 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bzweebl ( talk • contribs)
A user has changed the info box to list Joe DeSantis as press secretary and RC Hammond as communications director. JDS still declares himself as communications director on his UP. Sources variously identify Hammond as "Gingrich aide", "campaign spokesman" and "press secretary". So is the change correct? Or an error made in good faith? Or vandalism? Writegeist ( talk) 21:17, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Newt Gingrich has a history of bounced checks. The most recent is the $500 bounced check his campaign submitted to the Utah elections office as payment for the fee to appear on the primary ballot. While the reason given (the check was drafted months ago and the account was subsequently closed) is understandable, it is embarrassing to the campaign. Perhaps the communications director and his staff can draft a sentence that will limit the predictable negative effect on the campaign. I'm sure the replacement check is in the mail and the story will have a happy ending. But, in the meantime, how do WE include this faux pas? ``` Buster Seven Talk 06:00, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
"...of the top twenty-two check-kiters identified by the [House Ethics] committee, nineteen were Democrats. Gingrich then pressured House Speaker Tom Foley to publicly release the names of all members who had written bad checks [on their House Bank accounts]. Foley, who only wanted to identify the top twenty-two, capitulated and released the entire list. In an early sign of things to come, it was revealed that Gingrich had written twenty bad checks against his own account." Brian Thornton, The Book of Bastards: 101 Worst Scoundrels and Scandals from the World of Politics and Power, Adams Media 2010.
"Among the abusers from the Republican side was Newt Gingrich, the minority whip, who had written twenty-two bad checks with a face value totaling $26,891." Ron Kessler, Inside Congress, Pocket Books 1998.
From the UK Guardian, we read: ... To Quote: “... ... ... According to the RealClearPolitics website, which was given access to the meeting, Gingrich said: "I think Fox has been for Romney all the way through. In our experience, Callista and I both believe CNN is less biased than Fox this year. We are more likely to get neutral coverage out of CNN than we are of Fox, and we're more likely to get distortion out of Fox. That's just a fact." [And to continue quoting the UK Guardian article] "Fox hit back in a strongly personal attack. In a statement provided to the Guardian, it said: "This is nothing other than Newt auditioning for a windfall of a gig at CNN – that's the kind of man he is. Not to mention that he's still bitter about the fact that we terminated his contributor contract." [20] Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 14:09, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
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