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This is a terrible article, it is not only full of POV statements but it doesn't include much of the factual and encyclopedic history of the Negev. For instance Beersheba was founded in 1900. In 1945 it had 5570 inhabitants of whome 200 were Christian. There is no mention of the names of the Bedouin tribes, for instance the Tarabin, Tayaha. There is no list of the bedouin towns or their dates of foundation. It seems in someone's attempt to make the page biased they didn't realize that they could have done so while actually providind useful encyclopedic information. The page, which is devoted to a geographic region could learn from other pages on regions, such as Wales or the Sahara. I would recommend making the page like the one on the Sahara, with similar headings and organization. For now this page gets an 'F' for failure. Seth J. Frantzman, Hebrew University Seth J. Frantzman ( talk) 15:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC) I have tried to organize the page so it is like other Wikipedia pages, such as the Sahara, and to add more factual information from the Censuses and documents in my possession, but I cannot do it alone, other responsible people should contribute to this page so that it reflects a good encyclopedic entry on the Negev, rather than a half-cobbled together list of POV statements and quotes that seem to make up portions of it.
Why is "Nageeb" linked/re-directed to "Negev"? I don't see any possible connection.
Rawlsian 00:27, 5 April 2006
I have to agree with everyone else. Gilgamesh - you cause nothing but trouble. You always edit Israel-related articles and ruin them, and its starting to look very suspicious. I am Israeli myself, hebrew is my first language, and i can't undestand anything with those anoying symbols like "Négev". Its not proper hebrew(in hebrew its pronounced "Negev" no latin pronunciations), and it makes things harder for English-speakers too, so stop it ! For example when you tried to ruin the article about Eilat, you said "i didn't know Eilat was such a known town", let me give you an advice then - if you don't know something - don't write about it in Wikipedia ! and from what you wrote about Israel in all your articles, you don't know much about it.
Maglanist 00:47, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm getting a bit tired of these supposedly-linguistic changes people are making to Israel-related articles which are making them much less useful. Where the does the silly accent in the current name of the article - "Négev" - come from??? Since Hebrew does not get written in Latin characters, you can't tell me it comes from the original Hebrew. In that case, the name of the article needs to be the name as commonly written in English (which is the language the English Wikipedia is written in :)) - and that is "negev" - without any accute-accent on the first e.
If by adding this accute-accent someone tried to make this Israeli region sound more "exotic", then, well, maybe he succeeded. But it didn't help anything else. It doesn't help understanding how to pronounce it (the two vowels in this word sound exactly the same), it doesn't help to know where to put the stress (English or French people will not even know that the accent could possibly indicate stress!). And it doesn't help when you write an English document about the Negev, and when people expect it to be written like that, without any accent.
If you still don't believe me, try googling for Negev and get myriads of results. Then Google for Négev and see a bunch of Wikipedia clones :( Nyh 14:55, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
See my comments on Talk:Eilat: "Gilgamesh is at it again: Gilgamesh is determined to remove the Hebrew language from its normal rational historical moorings under cover of "scholarly" arguments, as he believes that the Jews do not have "exclusive" rights to their own language! That is perhaps why he persists in creating havoc with Hebrew names whenever he finds them, regardless of the naming conventions that are accepted and used by the whole world such as with "Eilat". See for example my debates with him at:
When he will stop his useless and confusing tamperings with Hebrew is anyone's guess." IZAK 09:06, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Gilgamesh by resorting to name-calling, you are avoiding the issues, i.e. the way you arbitrarily edit the Hebrew language words on Wikipedia in a manner that is weird to most people familiar with present-day Hebrew usage and presentability. Why don't you follow your own advice and stick to articles about Mormonism. Or would you like me to start editing all the Mormon articles with a fine tooth-comb in hand? IZAK 07:22, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
In some sources, like [1], [2] and other Wikipedias there are indications that Negev, besides or instead of "south", denotes or denoted "dry". What is true about that? Nethency 13:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
This is not a reliable source for the referenced subject matter. It is an odd place to seek historical, archaeological and related information.
Noted historian Daniel Pipes has said about Mariam Shahin's book, Palestine: A Traveler's Guide:
"Perhaps the book's strangest aspect is the pretense that Israel does not exist." "Conceptualized as a propaganda tool, the guidebook contains more than its share of inaccuracies. The first page falsely informs that 'Palestine is a Holy Land to Muslims.' The assertion that 'archeologists have yet to verify the historic existence' of the Temple of Solomon is laughable nonsense. And Lord Balfour was hardly 'of Jewish descent.' " - Doright 02:07, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
To both of you: please don't post exactly the same thing on multiple pages. I have never seen Shanin's book so I don't have an opinion on its reliability. I'll just note that a negative review by Pipes only means it isn't biased in the same partisan direction as himself. And he can't even get the name of the book right, as Tiamut noted. Funnily, the other review I found (in the Journal of Palestine Studies) starts "This book is not a guide as in a 'tourist guide'". Anyway, putting all that aside, if we discard a source purely on the basis of one negative review then we might as well give up on writing about the Middle East. Fact is, every book about the Middle East gets negative reviews from the partisans of one side or the other. -- Zero talk 12:29, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
This article has an overtly anti-Israel POV. For example, it cites to articles promoting academic boycotts of Israel: http://www.monabaker.com/pMachine/more.php?id=A1909_0_1_0_M Further, it virtually ignores Jewish history in the region, focusing exclusively on Bedouin. 141.166.154.239 ( talk) 04:41, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree there should be more about Israelis in this article. If you want to see it there, put it in yourself! Don't delete this factual information about Bedouin. You may not like these facts, and you may not like some of the sources. But this does not warrant deletion. Furthermore, others might say that while it does indeed treat the Bedouin extensively, it is also a very Israeli-left perspective on the Bedouin, not a Palestinian perspective. For instance, I added the word Naqab, the Arabic word for Negev, and what the inhabitants of the region have called it for hundreds upon hundreds of years. It was deleted today. It is a fact that the Negev Desert is called the 'Negev' among Israelis, but among Arabs, in teh Arabic language, it is called the 'Naqab.' Why delete this fact? Refcahman ( talk) 06:34, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Agree also that this article is a bit too grim. The Negev features some amazing developments in anti-desertation and other fields. ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:56, 25 April 2009 (UTC).
I have just noticed that the Bustan links are broken as the website has recently changed. please do not delete the citations - I will try to get them updated. Thanks. LamaLoLeshLa ( talk) 18:33, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
It has been 1.5yr and the references are still broken, among others. Time to remove them and replace with 'citation needed'. Better yet, find some citations in mainstream sources instead of 'alternative press' and small private organizations' websites! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.30.112 ( talk) 06:29, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
I don't think pictures of sand are very helpful. They could be from any desert. Wapondaponda ( talk) 07:03, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
An article about a large geographic feature / region of earth. NO MAP! Ridiculous. 'Nuff said.
KDEubanks (
talk)
05:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
And there still isn't one included. T bonham ( talk) 02:26, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
This article says that the Negev desert is 13.000 km2. The South District of Israel is 12.000 km2. Is Negev covering the entire South District? (Including the mediterranian coastline? Or are there green areas there?) How far north does really this desert extend? THE ARTICLE IS NOT TELLING AT ALL. In the city of Arad the Negev desert is meeting Israel's other desert the Judean desert which extrends into the southern West Bank. Is this small desert included in the 13.000 figure? ('cos 1.000 km2 is not counted for). Is it the Gaza Strip at 360 km2, and the southern parts of the West Bank, or is the Negev desert even extending into the Central District of Israel ???
Bjarnulf, Oslo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.209.87.61 ( talk) 23:52, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
From an ongoing legal dispute regarding title to land:
http://toibillboard.info/court8_3.htm
http://toibillboard.info/yiftachl.htm
MX44 ( talk) 00:36, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
In the negev article there is a reference to "the next thousand years". It is unclear to me when this "thousand years" starts and when it starts —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.215.119.15 ( talk) 15:20, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
I had a hard time searching for the Negev machine gun at IMI Negev. Since this is the first article that shows up under Negev, I thought I would include a redirect for it. I am going to undo the revision of my edit for this reason. If there is still disagreement, feel free to discuss it here. -- JohnAndersonian ( talk) 22:08, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Against the WP rules is the publicity of the wine with the name of the producer at the end of the article. Thats a hard ignorance against the rules! -- 178.197.232.1 ( talk) 17:12, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Israel-2013-Ein Avdat 02.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on August 12, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2015-08-12. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Chris Woodrich ( talk) 00:04, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
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How the heck do you pronounce "Negev"? Add an IPA transcription? And wait, what, there were (and ARE?) animists in Israel??? What were their beliefs? Corsican Warrah Israeli Pika 12:25, 14 August 2016 (UTC) Corsican Warrah Israeli Pika 12:25, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
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There is material in the Encylclopaedia Britannica article on the Negev which would, I think, be worthwhile to add to the current article if it can be found repeated in proper secondary sources (encyclopaedias being tertiary ones), such as that the area was an important granary in Roman times, that kibbutzim were established there during the Second World War and that large-scale irrigation projects being begun just after the war's end, on the foundation of the state of Israel. ← ZScarpia 14:43, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
Shahin is cited 17 (!) times in the "History" section, from prehistory to 1900+. The author studied at good schools, but her degrees are in International Relations and Administration, and the book so copiously quoted is a guidebook published by a general-interest publishing house. Ms Shahin is a Palestinian patriot, which is all nice and well, but it doesn't always help her in dealing with history in an unbiased way, and this is an encyclopedia. So, as Tiamut was writing above (I'm paraphrasing her), as long as no one bothers to replace the passages based on Shahin's guidebook, the blame is on us. But RS it's not. My main technical problem is that her book is not accessible online, making it impossible to work with the text any further: that's a dead end source from that pov.
Btw, Evenari was excellent in experimental archaeology re. desert agriculture, where he's unchallenged, but his material on general historical evolution is quite dated and based on other people's work, like A. Negev's, so not a first choice either. When he took archaeologists as co-authors, the RS factor grows, but these still are quite old books.
So, who picks up the challenge? Arminden ( talk) 19:19, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | It is requested that a map or maps be
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This is a terrible article, it is not only full of POV statements but it doesn't include much of the factual and encyclopedic history of the Negev. For instance Beersheba was founded in 1900. In 1945 it had 5570 inhabitants of whome 200 were Christian. There is no mention of the names of the Bedouin tribes, for instance the Tarabin, Tayaha. There is no list of the bedouin towns or their dates of foundation. It seems in someone's attempt to make the page biased they didn't realize that they could have done so while actually providind useful encyclopedic information. The page, which is devoted to a geographic region could learn from other pages on regions, such as Wales or the Sahara. I would recommend making the page like the one on the Sahara, with similar headings and organization. For now this page gets an 'F' for failure. Seth J. Frantzman, Hebrew University Seth J. Frantzman ( talk) 15:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC) I have tried to organize the page so it is like other Wikipedia pages, such as the Sahara, and to add more factual information from the Censuses and documents in my possession, but I cannot do it alone, other responsible people should contribute to this page so that it reflects a good encyclopedic entry on the Negev, rather than a half-cobbled together list of POV statements and quotes that seem to make up portions of it.
Why is "Nageeb" linked/re-directed to "Negev"? I don't see any possible connection.
Rawlsian 00:27, 5 April 2006
I have to agree with everyone else. Gilgamesh - you cause nothing but trouble. You always edit Israel-related articles and ruin them, and its starting to look very suspicious. I am Israeli myself, hebrew is my first language, and i can't undestand anything with those anoying symbols like "Négev". Its not proper hebrew(in hebrew its pronounced "Negev" no latin pronunciations), and it makes things harder for English-speakers too, so stop it ! For example when you tried to ruin the article about Eilat, you said "i didn't know Eilat was such a known town", let me give you an advice then - if you don't know something - don't write about it in Wikipedia ! and from what you wrote about Israel in all your articles, you don't know much about it.
Maglanist 00:47, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm getting a bit tired of these supposedly-linguistic changes people are making to Israel-related articles which are making them much less useful. Where the does the silly accent in the current name of the article - "Négev" - come from??? Since Hebrew does not get written in Latin characters, you can't tell me it comes from the original Hebrew. In that case, the name of the article needs to be the name as commonly written in English (which is the language the English Wikipedia is written in :)) - and that is "negev" - without any accute-accent on the first e.
If by adding this accute-accent someone tried to make this Israeli region sound more "exotic", then, well, maybe he succeeded. But it didn't help anything else. It doesn't help understanding how to pronounce it (the two vowels in this word sound exactly the same), it doesn't help to know where to put the stress (English or French people will not even know that the accent could possibly indicate stress!). And it doesn't help when you write an English document about the Negev, and when people expect it to be written like that, without any accent.
If you still don't believe me, try googling for Negev and get myriads of results. Then Google for Négev and see a bunch of Wikipedia clones :( Nyh 14:55, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
See my comments on Talk:Eilat: "Gilgamesh is at it again: Gilgamesh is determined to remove the Hebrew language from its normal rational historical moorings under cover of "scholarly" arguments, as he believes that the Jews do not have "exclusive" rights to their own language! That is perhaps why he persists in creating havoc with Hebrew names whenever he finds them, regardless of the naming conventions that are accepted and used by the whole world such as with "Eilat". See for example my debates with him at:
When he will stop his useless and confusing tamperings with Hebrew is anyone's guess." IZAK 09:06, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Gilgamesh by resorting to name-calling, you are avoiding the issues, i.e. the way you arbitrarily edit the Hebrew language words on Wikipedia in a manner that is weird to most people familiar with present-day Hebrew usage and presentability. Why don't you follow your own advice and stick to articles about Mormonism. Or would you like me to start editing all the Mormon articles with a fine tooth-comb in hand? IZAK 07:22, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
In some sources, like [1], [2] and other Wikipedias there are indications that Negev, besides or instead of "south", denotes or denoted "dry". What is true about that? Nethency 13:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
This is not a reliable source for the referenced subject matter. It is an odd place to seek historical, archaeological and related information.
Noted historian Daniel Pipes has said about Mariam Shahin's book, Palestine: A Traveler's Guide:
"Perhaps the book's strangest aspect is the pretense that Israel does not exist." "Conceptualized as a propaganda tool, the guidebook contains more than its share of inaccuracies. The first page falsely informs that 'Palestine is a Holy Land to Muslims.' The assertion that 'archeologists have yet to verify the historic existence' of the Temple of Solomon is laughable nonsense. And Lord Balfour was hardly 'of Jewish descent.' " - Doright 02:07, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
To both of you: please don't post exactly the same thing on multiple pages. I have never seen Shanin's book so I don't have an opinion on its reliability. I'll just note that a negative review by Pipes only means it isn't biased in the same partisan direction as himself. And he can't even get the name of the book right, as Tiamut noted. Funnily, the other review I found (in the Journal of Palestine Studies) starts "This book is not a guide as in a 'tourist guide'". Anyway, putting all that aside, if we discard a source purely on the basis of one negative review then we might as well give up on writing about the Middle East. Fact is, every book about the Middle East gets negative reviews from the partisans of one side or the other. -- Zero talk 12:29, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
This article has an overtly anti-Israel POV. For example, it cites to articles promoting academic boycotts of Israel: http://www.monabaker.com/pMachine/more.php?id=A1909_0_1_0_M Further, it virtually ignores Jewish history in the region, focusing exclusively on Bedouin. 141.166.154.239 ( talk) 04:41, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree there should be more about Israelis in this article. If you want to see it there, put it in yourself! Don't delete this factual information about Bedouin. You may not like these facts, and you may not like some of the sources. But this does not warrant deletion. Furthermore, others might say that while it does indeed treat the Bedouin extensively, it is also a very Israeli-left perspective on the Bedouin, not a Palestinian perspective. For instance, I added the word Naqab, the Arabic word for Negev, and what the inhabitants of the region have called it for hundreds upon hundreds of years. It was deleted today. It is a fact that the Negev Desert is called the 'Negev' among Israelis, but among Arabs, in teh Arabic language, it is called the 'Naqab.' Why delete this fact? Refcahman ( talk) 06:34, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Agree also that this article is a bit too grim. The Negev features some amazing developments in anti-desertation and other fields. ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:56, 25 April 2009 (UTC).
I have just noticed that the Bustan links are broken as the website has recently changed. please do not delete the citations - I will try to get them updated. Thanks. LamaLoLeshLa ( talk) 18:33, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
It has been 1.5yr and the references are still broken, among others. Time to remove them and replace with 'citation needed'. Better yet, find some citations in mainstream sources instead of 'alternative press' and small private organizations' websites! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.30.112 ( talk) 06:29, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
I don't think pictures of sand are very helpful. They could be from any desert. Wapondaponda ( talk) 07:03, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
An article about a large geographic feature / region of earth. NO MAP! Ridiculous. 'Nuff said.
KDEubanks (
talk)
05:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
And there still isn't one included. T bonham ( talk) 02:26, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
This article says that the Negev desert is 13.000 km2. The South District of Israel is 12.000 km2. Is Negev covering the entire South District? (Including the mediterranian coastline? Or are there green areas there?) How far north does really this desert extend? THE ARTICLE IS NOT TELLING AT ALL. In the city of Arad the Negev desert is meeting Israel's other desert the Judean desert which extrends into the southern West Bank. Is this small desert included in the 13.000 figure? ('cos 1.000 km2 is not counted for). Is it the Gaza Strip at 360 km2, and the southern parts of the West Bank, or is the Negev desert even extending into the Central District of Israel ???
Bjarnulf, Oslo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.209.87.61 ( talk) 23:52, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
From an ongoing legal dispute regarding title to land:
http://toibillboard.info/court8_3.htm
http://toibillboard.info/yiftachl.htm
MX44 ( talk) 00:36, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
In the negev article there is a reference to "the next thousand years". It is unclear to me when this "thousand years" starts and when it starts —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.215.119.15 ( talk) 15:20, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
I had a hard time searching for the Negev machine gun at IMI Negev. Since this is the first article that shows up under Negev, I thought I would include a redirect for it. I am going to undo the revision of my edit for this reason. If there is still disagreement, feel free to discuss it here. -- JohnAndersonian ( talk) 22:08, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Against the WP rules is the publicity of the wine with the name of the producer at the end of the article. Thats a hard ignorance against the rules! -- 178.197.232.1 ( talk) 17:12, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Israel-2013-Ein Avdat 02.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on August 12, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2015-08-12. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Chris Woodrich ( talk) 00:04, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
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How the heck do you pronounce "Negev"? Add an IPA transcription? And wait, what, there were (and ARE?) animists in Israel??? What were their beliefs? Corsican Warrah Israeli Pika 12:25, 14 August 2016 (UTC) Corsican Warrah Israeli Pika 12:25, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
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There is material in the Encylclopaedia Britannica article on the Negev which would, I think, be worthwhile to add to the current article if it can be found repeated in proper secondary sources (encyclopaedias being tertiary ones), such as that the area was an important granary in Roman times, that kibbutzim were established there during the Second World War and that large-scale irrigation projects being begun just after the war's end, on the foundation of the state of Israel. ← ZScarpia 14:43, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
Shahin is cited 17 (!) times in the "History" section, from prehistory to 1900+. The author studied at good schools, but her degrees are in International Relations and Administration, and the book so copiously quoted is a guidebook published by a general-interest publishing house. Ms Shahin is a Palestinian patriot, which is all nice and well, but it doesn't always help her in dealing with history in an unbiased way, and this is an encyclopedia. So, as Tiamut was writing above (I'm paraphrasing her), as long as no one bothers to replace the passages based on Shahin's guidebook, the blame is on us. But RS it's not. My main technical problem is that her book is not accessible online, making it impossible to work with the text any further: that's a dead end source from that pov.
Btw, Evenari was excellent in experimental archaeology re. desert agriculture, where he's unchallenged, but his material on general historical evolution is quite dated and based on other people's work, like A. Negev's, so not a first choice either. When he took archaeologists as co-authors, the RS factor grows, but these still are quite old books.
So, who picks up the challenge? Arminden ( talk) 19:19, 12 December 2023 (UTC)