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Pink inverted triangle superimposed upon a yellow triangle, making the Star of David - a homosexual Jew.
This is the first time I hear about this "double marking". Any refs where this came from? Just wondering, what if a Jew was a criminal, he would wear a yellow-green star? What if a Jew + criminal + homosexual? And what if it was a anti-social woman? I am not turning this into a joke, just trying to understand the classification. Humus sapiens 03:53, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)
In fact, there were many markings, a prisoner would have at least two, and possibly more than six:
I'd appreciate it if someone familiar with graphics could replace the text of the table with pictures, where appropriate.
I propose: Nazi concentration camp inmate markings. Hyacinth
A purple triangle over a yellow one means someone is both a Jew and a Jehovah's Witness? Is that actually possible? -- Kimiko 23:21, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Der "Lila Winkel" als Kennzeichnung in den Konzentrationslagern, galt für alle religiösen inhaftierten Gefangenen. Diese wurden unter der Bezeichnung "Bibelforscher" geführt. Darunter befanden sich nicht nur die "Zeugen Jehovas", sondern auch die "Freien Bibelforscher", die "Quäker" und viele der "Siebenten-Tags-Adventisten". Diese Tatsache sollte seitens der Zeugen nicht übersehen werden. Hier gibt es einfach keinen Absolutheitsanspruch. -- Bibelforscher 16:58, 14.Oct 2005 (CEST)
I must commend the graphics and the discussion. In 1994, I visited both Auschwitz and neighboring Auschwitz II (Birkenau), and I found the explanation of the marking system there to be cursory.
Orlando Gotay, San Juan, Puerto Rico
What qualified a concentration camp inmate for "special" status? User:DO'Neil|DO' И eil]] 11:00, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)
Under special markings .. I'm not clear what "race defiler" actually means ... -- Azkar 15:22, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Removed the internal link to "Jasenovac concentration camp marks," which seems to have been removed from the Jasenovac article.
Thecosmos, I'll also include the definition of "race defiler" in the appropriate section.
-- Justin.eiler 20:54, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, Justin!-- Thecosmos 03:55, May 16, 2005 (UTC)
Somebody should explain what a repeat bar is as it is incomprehensible in the article!
Assuming that the repeater bar is for those people that repeated the designated offense, how could somebody be a repeating Jehovah's Witness? (I am not trying to be difficult, I just fail to understand that.)-- Thecosmos 22:07, May 15, 2005 (UTC)
I believe the repeater bars are actually only applicable for repeatable offenses: they are, in the graphic, used with all the major badges by way of example, rather than an actual category. However, I may be wrong on that.... -- Justin.eiler 04:36, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
The repeaters for all categories show up in the original German poster as well, so either people at the concentration camp were as confused as we about "repeating Jehovah's Witnesses" &c, or they actually do mean something. Mang 03:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Note: 26.06.2024: Before the war, prisoners could be released at the discretion of the camp staff and higher functionaries in the KZ system. A prisoner due for release would be interviewed - typically by the Gestapo - and made to sign a form. The form stated that they were well treated, had no complaints and that they would keep their experiences to themselves. If that person then goes on to tell all and sundry about what happens in the KZ, if denounced, they were back in for life. Further, if the person reoffended viz-a-viz the reason why they were locked up, again, they were rearrested and sent back to the KZ for life. Jehovah's Witnesses were in the KZ system because typically they had not voted in the elections, did not recognise AH as legitimate head of state and refused to do their military service. They were, as far as I am aware, the only prisoner group who could actively play a part in gaining their freedom; they had to renounce their faith, accept AH as the legitimate head of state (i.e. accept someone apart from god could wield power over people) and then do their army service. If that person then decides that Hitler really isn't the leader - only god could hold that title, or if they evaded their army service, then they would be thrown back in the KZ and ave to wear the repeat offender stripe. I work in the Dachau Memorial; what I've written here is good for Dachau. In other camps there may have been exceptions. 88.71.141.153 ( talk) 18:24, 26 June 2024 (UTC) Taff
The blue triangle "emigrants" category isn't discussed, but is in the table. What does it mean? A2Kafir 01:49, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
No, the blue triangle is the single greatest oversight and injustice in Holocaust Remembrance - blue triangles,based on my interviews with 3 survivors - were issued to ethnic Slavs (Poles, Russians, Serbs, Ukrainians, etc.) who were collected and sent to camps. This is rarely discussed and needs to be corrected. By conservative estimates, 14 million civilians (non combatants) from Slavic countries were murdered in non-combat, some by execution on conquest, some after surrendering, and a large majority in the concentration camps. Because the Nazis conducted "clearing" operations, the intention had been to ethnically cleanse an entire region from non-Germanic people and so many of these were children and women, given that often men were fighting. The famous photograph of Czeslawa Kwoka tells all that needs to be said - 14 years old, murdered at Auschwitz together with her mother, only crime was being Polish. Canlawtictoc ( talk) 03:55, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
I am surprised that the Brown Triangle isn't listed. This was the common (as well as Black) Triangle worn by the Roma. There are various links through Google where one could read about this and even find orginal Nazi chart listings showing the brown triangle. Could someone please fix this? I think it is only fair to include this as it is historic fact. In later years, the Roma were made to stop wearing the Black Traigle and were forced to Start wearing the Brown. I would remedy this, but I do not have the capability - Paint Shop is not my friend.
Here are some links/sources confirming this fact:
Thank you. I hope someone can clarify this. ExRat 05:54, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
The Pink Triangle was not only used for homosexuals. It was applied to any who broke paragraphs 174, 175 and 176 of the penal code. 175 applied to homosexuals, and 175b sex with animals. 174 applied to incest and other sexual offences with dependents, while 176 covered pedophilia. Ref: http://www.pink-triangle.org
So a Pink triangle was essentially for sexual offences in general rather than just homosexuals.
Looking for a fuller explanation of the upright red triangle. Is 'Armed Forces' the same as POW? Or some offence (or imagined offence) by someone withing the German Armed Forces? T L Miles 17:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
http://ddickerson.igc.org/dachau-badges.html gives this as "Wermacht Prisoners". If someone can confirm this, perhaps it should be clarified on the main page. Also there seems to be discussion of differences between camps. That this was a local, not a universal system, might be noted (if confirmed). T L Miles 17:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I work in the Dachau Memorial. This was discussed in the training course I had to do: the uninverted red triangle was for police, Luftschutz and SS men who were convicted of crimes (e.g. taking of bribes, cowardice). They were kept in a special block ("The Bunker") and kept separate from other prisoners. I cannot comment on how it was used in other camps.
Taff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.211.199.76 ( talk) 09:50, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
Just out of curiousity, how did Republican Spaniards end up in Nazi concentration camps? Even though Germany was involved in a minor role during the Spanish Civil War, it would be odd that they would capture Spanish citizens. Was it Spanish volunteers in the French Resistance?
I know Nationalist Spaniards fought on the side of the Axis in the Azul Division. They wouldn't be Republicans though.
I know Franco jailed many Republicans after the civil war.
Anyway, just curious. Thanks.
See Wikis for Spanish Civil War and French Resistance, T L Miles 15:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
There is a request under the heading "Badge Coding System" for a citation for the "Black Triangle" being worn for the offense of "birth control".
I do not have the editing skills to do the citation myself; however I can give you a citation from the man himself.
Adolf Hitler railed at some length against birth control in "MEIN KAMPF" Vol. I, Chapter IV: MUNICH (James Murphy, 1939 translation).
His argument was essentially that while promoting the birth of as many children as possible would allow 'natural selection' to cull the weak and leave only the strongest to populate Germany; as opposed to the use of birth control resulting in fewer children whose lives were then preserved whether deserving of survival or not.
Hitler did not treat this so much a moral issue as a practical one. He was interested in developing the most viable possible children, who could be molded through minimal education and maximum physical training, into a generation who could retake Germany's territorial losses in World War I and thus avenge his perceived inequities in the Treaty of Versailles (Where Germany lost a large portion of its territory and nearly all its prestige).
Heinrich Himmler found the answer to this in the ‘Lebensborn’ program, to promote the procreation of racially pure Aryan children to populate and continue the Third Reich in the future.
Hitler also comments at length about the need for "pure" Aryans to procreate in order to save "the race" as well as his ideas for limiting the undesirable, to his theories, reproduction of races he considers inferior, the mentally ill, etc. in "MEIN KAMPF" Vol. II, Chapter II: THE STATE (James Murphy, 1939 translation)
If someone could reduce this to the proper form and add it to the page I would greatly appreciate it. -Bonacon Lupinus —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.245.174.178 ( talk) 07:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC).
It is not "original research" to note that abortion was illegal in Germany when practiced by "racially valuable" people such as those defined as Aryan. It was encouraged and sometimes forced on members of other groups. 66.162.249.170 ( talk) 01:45, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Female_race_defiler.svg
Can someone "spin" the 'Female Race Defiler' icon? AKismet 07:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure whether this is an article or a list - it seems like both merged into one. It lacks proper in-text references and the sources and external links make the whole thing difficult.-- h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 14:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
They were used for other groups too. In fact this need to be brought in line with the purple triangle article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.33.103.23 ( talk) 02:07, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
This is not correct! Purple triangles were for Jehovah's Witnesses including converts to their religion which might also include ethnically Jewish individuals. Their purple triangles' specific purpose was to alert guards to their proselytising activities within the camps. Bibelforscher referred to the B in IBV, Jehovah's Witnesses legal name. See Jehovah's Witnesses in National Socialist concentration camps, 1933 - 45 by Johannes S. Wrobel, [1]. Extract below.
The Bible Students were set apart as a completely separate category. The fact that the SS separated them in that way was designed to make Jehovah's Witnesses easily discernible from the other groups of prisoners. … With the category 'Bible Students,' the SS had selected a classification which applied specifically and exclusively to members of this ideological religious denomination. (Garbe, 1999, pp. 405 - 6; English translation in Garbe, 2006)
The "Purple angle" as identification in the concentration camps was for all religious detained prisoners. They were all included under the name "Bible Students". These were not only the "Jehovah's Witnesses", but also the “Dawn Bible Students”, the "Free Bible Students", the "Quakers" and many of the "Reformed Seventh Day Adventists". This fact should not be overlooked by the "Witnesses". There are simply no absolute claims for any one group. -- Bibelforscher ( talk) 14:06, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
This is getting ridiculous. Here are the facts:
So how can anyone justifiably change the meaning of that to 'Purple Triangles referred to people who read the bible, like these people...' I'm not a historian, but I can read article citations. And this article is slowly straying further and further away from all the cited articles on the topic. This page should not cater to those who would like to minimize Jehovah's Witnesses' role in the concentration camps. Thunderbird L17 ( talk) 01:50, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Though I happened to come onto this dispute by noticing the now-removed listing at 3O, and though I am a Third Opinion Wikipedian, this is not a third opinion issued under that project (I am disqualified from issuing a 3O because I have had prior dealings with one of the disputants here), but it is instead just some personal observations and recommendations.
Finally, a word to the wise about edit warring: The edit warring policy says,
"An edit war occurs when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions, rather than trying to resolve the disagreement by discussion."
The three revert rule is merely a bright-line rule and it expressly says,
"Remember that an administrator may still act whenever they believe a user's behavior constitutes edit warring, and any user may report edit-warring, even if the three-revert rule has not been breached. The rule is not an entitlement to revert a page a specific number of times."
What's going on here is clearly an edit war and I must warn you that you stand a risk of having this page protected and/or being blocked from editing if it continues. Decide it by discussion, do a RFC, take it to MedCab, or use some other form of dispute resolution, but stop changing the article page. Best regards, TRANSPORTERMAN ( TALK) 14:09, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
It might help the article if it had dates for when the standardization for the classifications were made. -- Trakon 22:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
There hasn't been any evidence for lesbians to be imprisoned in concentration camps due to their sexual orientation. The archive of the memorial site of Ravensbrück has evidence of four women with an additional remark of being lesbians: two of them been persecuted for political reasons, two for being jewish. One of the jewish inmates was given a black triangle due to sexual contacts with non-jewish persons as Claudia Schoppmann published. ref: Claudia Schoppmann: Nationalsozialistische Sexualpolitik und weibliche Homosexualität. (Dissertation, FU Berlin, 1990.) Centaurus, Pfaffenweiler 1991 (revisited 2nd edition 1997). ISBN 3-89085-538-5</ref> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.73.62.28 ( talk) 19:51, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
ah, this has been found: Elman PhD, R. Amy (1996). "Triangles and Tribulations: The Politics of Nazi Symbols"
[1]
RocketDwiki (
talk)
06:57, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
The caption of the picture states N stands for Dutch, while the article says it stands for Norwegian. 87.193.248.234 ( talk) 14:33, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
There are clearly more gay men persecuted under the pink triangle than straight rapists and pedophiles or people who had sex with animals. We should make that clear in the article. Same with the Jehovah's Witnesses and Bible Students. Were Bible Students persecuted and given a purple triangle? Yes but far more Witnesses were.- Rainbowofpeace ( talk) 10:28, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Since the agreed upon sentence about "Purple Triangle" has been stirred up again, I'm directing attention back to the reason it was written that way in the first place (From the above conversation:
So Adventists, Baptists, and New Apostolics are the most likely religious groups added under the designation. Then Bible Student splinter groups move to "probably" and "Perhaps". Therefore to link to them first and ignore the other groups is not the right option. Making a long list as well for "probable" and "possible" groups that taken together at best is under 1% of the classification is also not a good option. So if the previous definition was unnecessarily long and wordy, Why not just make it:
Purple triangle—primarily Jehovah's Witnesses, as well as a very small minority of other religious groups. [2]
Simple and to the point. And if anyone wants a list of other religious groups (possible, probable, or otherwise) they can go to the Purple Triangle page. - Thunderbird L17 ( talk) 23:48, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
No, it conveys exactly what it is supposed to.
That doesn't even really go far enough to convey "99% Jehovah's Witnesses" but it comes close. And then suggests a very small minority (under 1%) of miscellaneous religious groups, which could include but not be limited to Baptists and Adventists.
Your rendering suggests simply a majority of Witnesses, perhaps "Over 50%" (Or possibly even less if the reader assumes just the highest percentage). And by saying "very small religious groups" it also suggests that either groups such as Baptists and Adventists are "very small religious groups", or that the groups referred to are "Preacher John and his congregation of five", etc. In both cases, it is the wrong conclusion.
- Thunderbird L17 ( talk) 22:43, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
References
Ok, Beyond My Ken, you are the one who needs to do some explaining here and it better to be a good one. So, what country occupied Europe between 1939-1944 approximately? A Nazi nation? A Nazi state? If a Nazi state then what state? Nazi Germany? (added after) - I've reread the entire article as well as the talk page trying to find some clues or remarks regarding the reason for this apparent ill-worded information bein here, but there are none. I'm looking forward to an answer and explanations from you then. GizzyCatBella ( talk) 08:09, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
GCB changed "Nazi-occuped countries" to "German-occupied countries", and I reverted, since "Nazi" is more specific and precise than "German". "Nazi Germany" would also have been acceptable. GCB reverted,and then added a totally unnecessary ref (not needed in the lede), which she herself referred to as "overkill" in her edit summary.The simple fact is that "Germany" is a political entity whose form, boundaires and typeof government have changed radically from era to era, and is therefore simply too vague a term to use when there is a more specific one available which will better inform our readers as to which Germany (German Empire, Weimar Republic, Nazi Germany, West or East Germany, or the current state) was the one which occupied multiple other European countries and ran concentration camps there. For simplicity, clarity, and specificity, "Nazi-" or "Nazi Germany-" are to be preferred over the vaguer, less specific "Germany-". Beyond My Ken ( talk) 14:08, 6 March 2018 (UTC)Nazi concentration camp badges, primarily triangles, were part of the system of identification in Nazi camps. They were used in the concentration camps in the Nazi-occupied countries to identify the reason the prisoners had been placed there.
The current wording loses the significance of Team Trump's use of the inverted red triangle symbol. It was included in a tweet about "far-left" groups. The Nazi government required left wing prisoners in concentration camps to wear these symbols. Without that piece of information the reason why its use provoked reaction is unclear. TFD ( talk) 21:45, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Any particular reason to remove the number of advertisements that were removed from FB? The number is considered significant by many RocketDwiki ( talk) 00:51, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
The 2020 events around the red triangle as hate speech in an ad campaign are growing to be significant enough to warrant their own article. Until that article is created, these events will only serve to clog up and dilute this Nazi concentration camp badge article with play-by-play coverage and possible edit wars. I experienced this quite a bit while working on OK gesture, which also needs to be parsed out into a separate regarding the way it's been used recently as both racist coding and a smokescreen tactic to create political distraction, much as the red triangle is as of this writing. Morganfitzp ( talk) 14:50, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
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Pink inverted triangle superimposed upon a yellow triangle, making the Star of David - a homosexual Jew.
This is the first time I hear about this "double marking". Any refs where this came from? Just wondering, what if a Jew was a criminal, he would wear a yellow-green star? What if a Jew + criminal + homosexual? And what if it was a anti-social woman? I am not turning this into a joke, just trying to understand the classification. Humus sapiens 03:53, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)
In fact, there were many markings, a prisoner would have at least two, and possibly more than six:
I'd appreciate it if someone familiar with graphics could replace the text of the table with pictures, where appropriate.
I propose: Nazi concentration camp inmate markings. Hyacinth
A purple triangle over a yellow one means someone is both a Jew and a Jehovah's Witness? Is that actually possible? -- Kimiko 23:21, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Der "Lila Winkel" als Kennzeichnung in den Konzentrationslagern, galt für alle religiösen inhaftierten Gefangenen. Diese wurden unter der Bezeichnung "Bibelforscher" geführt. Darunter befanden sich nicht nur die "Zeugen Jehovas", sondern auch die "Freien Bibelforscher", die "Quäker" und viele der "Siebenten-Tags-Adventisten". Diese Tatsache sollte seitens der Zeugen nicht übersehen werden. Hier gibt es einfach keinen Absolutheitsanspruch. -- Bibelforscher 16:58, 14.Oct 2005 (CEST)
I must commend the graphics and the discussion. In 1994, I visited both Auschwitz and neighboring Auschwitz II (Birkenau), and I found the explanation of the marking system there to be cursory.
Orlando Gotay, San Juan, Puerto Rico
What qualified a concentration camp inmate for "special" status? User:DO'Neil|DO' И eil]] 11:00, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)
Under special markings .. I'm not clear what "race defiler" actually means ... -- Azkar 15:22, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Removed the internal link to "Jasenovac concentration camp marks," which seems to have been removed from the Jasenovac article.
Thecosmos, I'll also include the definition of "race defiler" in the appropriate section.
-- Justin.eiler 20:54, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, Justin!-- Thecosmos 03:55, May 16, 2005 (UTC)
Somebody should explain what a repeat bar is as it is incomprehensible in the article!
Assuming that the repeater bar is for those people that repeated the designated offense, how could somebody be a repeating Jehovah's Witness? (I am not trying to be difficult, I just fail to understand that.)-- Thecosmos 22:07, May 15, 2005 (UTC)
I believe the repeater bars are actually only applicable for repeatable offenses: they are, in the graphic, used with all the major badges by way of example, rather than an actual category. However, I may be wrong on that.... -- Justin.eiler 04:36, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
The repeaters for all categories show up in the original German poster as well, so either people at the concentration camp were as confused as we about "repeating Jehovah's Witnesses" &c, or they actually do mean something. Mang 03:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Note: 26.06.2024: Before the war, prisoners could be released at the discretion of the camp staff and higher functionaries in the KZ system. A prisoner due for release would be interviewed - typically by the Gestapo - and made to sign a form. The form stated that they were well treated, had no complaints and that they would keep their experiences to themselves. If that person then goes on to tell all and sundry about what happens in the KZ, if denounced, they were back in for life. Further, if the person reoffended viz-a-viz the reason why they were locked up, again, they were rearrested and sent back to the KZ for life. Jehovah's Witnesses were in the KZ system because typically they had not voted in the elections, did not recognise AH as legitimate head of state and refused to do their military service. They were, as far as I am aware, the only prisoner group who could actively play a part in gaining their freedom; they had to renounce their faith, accept AH as the legitimate head of state (i.e. accept someone apart from god could wield power over people) and then do their army service. If that person then decides that Hitler really isn't the leader - only god could hold that title, or if they evaded their army service, then they would be thrown back in the KZ and ave to wear the repeat offender stripe. I work in the Dachau Memorial; what I've written here is good for Dachau. In other camps there may have been exceptions. 88.71.141.153 ( talk) 18:24, 26 June 2024 (UTC) Taff
The blue triangle "emigrants" category isn't discussed, but is in the table. What does it mean? A2Kafir 01:49, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
No, the blue triangle is the single greatest oversight and injustice in Holocaust Remembrance - blue triangles,based on my interviews with 3 survivors - were issued to ethnic Slavs (Poles, Russians, Serbs, Ukrainians, etc.) who were collected and sent to camps. This is rarely discussed and needs to be corrected. By conservative estimates, 14 million civilians (non combatants) from Slavic countries were murdered in non-combat, some by execution on conquest, some after surrendering, and a large majority in the concentration camps. Because the Nazis conducted "clearing" operations, the intention had been to ethnically cleanse an entire region from non-Germanic people and so many of these were children and women, given that often men were fighting. The famous photograph of Czeslawa Kwoka tells all that needs to be said - 14 years old, murdered at Auschwitz together with her mother, only crime was being Polish. Canlawtictoc ( talk) 03:55, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
I am surprised that the Brown Triangle isn't listed. This was the common (as well as Black) Triangle worn by the Roma. There are various links through Google where one could read about this and even find orginal Nazi chart listings showing the brown triangle. Could someone please fix this? I think it is only fair to include this as it is historic fact. In later years, the Roma were made to stop wearing the Black Traigle and were forced to Start wearing the Brown. I would remedy this, but I do not have the capability - Paint Shop is not my friend.
Here are some links/sources confirming this fact:
Thank you. I hope someone can clarify this. ExRat 05:54, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
The Pink Triangle was not only used for homosexuals. It was applied to any who broke paragraphs 174, 175 and 176 of the penal code. 175 applied to homosexuals, and 175b sex with animals. 174 applied to incest and other sexual offences with dependents, while 176 covered pedophilia. Ref: http://www.pink-triangle.org
So a Pink triangle was essentially for sexual offences in general rather than just homosexuals.
Looking for a fuller explanation of the upright red triangle. Is 'Armed Forces' the same as POW? Or some offence (or imagined offence) by someone withing the German Armed Forces? T L Miles 17:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
http://ddickerson.igc.org/dachau-badges.html gives this as "Wermacht Prisoners". If someone can confirm this, perhaps it should be clarified on the main page. Also there seems to be discussion of differences between camps. That this was a local, not a universal system, might be noted (if confirmed). T L Miles 17:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I work in the Dachau Memorial. This was discussed in the training course I had to do: the uninverted red triangle was for police, Luftschutz and SS men who were convicted of crimes (e.g. taking of bribes, cowardice). They were kept in a special block ("The Bunker") and kept separate from other prisoners. I cannot comment on how it was used in other camps.
Taff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.211.199.76 ( talk) 09:50, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
Just out of curiousity, how did Republican Spaniards end up in Nazi concentration camps? Even though Germany was involved in a minor role during the Spanish Civil War, it would be odd that they would capture Spanish citizens. Was it Spanish volunteers in the French Resistance?
I know Nationalist Spaniards fought on the side of the Axis in the Azul Division. They wouldn't be Republicans though.
I know Franco jailed many Republicans after the civil war.
Anyway, just curious. Thanks.
See Wikis for Spanish Civil War and French Resistance, T L Miles 15:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
There is a request under the heading "Badge Coding System" for a citation for the "Black Triangle" being worn for the offense of "birth control".
I do not have the editing skills to do the citation myself; however I can give you a citation from the man himself.
Adolf Hitler railed at some length against birth control in "MEIN KAMPF" Vol. I, Chapter IV: MUNICH (James Murphy, 1939 translation).
His argument was essentially that while promoting the birth of as many children as possible would allow 'natural selection' to cull the weak and leave only the strongest to populate Germany; as opposed to the use of birth control resulting in fewer children whose lives were then preserved whether deserving of survival or not.
Hitler did not treat this so much a moral issue as a practical one. He was interested in developing the most viable possible children, who could be molded through minimal education and maximum physical training, into a generation who could retake Germany's territorial losses in World War I and thus avenge his perceived inequities in the Treaty of Versailles (Where Germany lost a large portion of its territory and nearly all its prestige).
Heinrich Himmler found the answer to this in the ‘Lebensborn’ program, to promote the procreation of racially pure Aryan children to populate and continue the Third Reich in the future.
Hitler also comments at length about the need for "pure" Aryans to procreate in order to save "the race" as well as his ideas for limiting the undesirable, to his theories, reproduction of races he considers inferior, the mentally ill, etc. in "MEIN KAMPF" Vol. II, Chapter II: THE STATE (James Murphy, 1939 translation)
If someone could reduce this to the proper form and add it to the page I would greatly appreciate it. -Bonacon Lupinus —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.245.174.178 ( talk) 07:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC).
It is not "original research" to note that abortion was illegal in Germany when practiced by "racially valuable" people such as those defined as Aryan. It was encouraged and sometimes forced on members of other groups. 66.162.249.170 ( talk) 01:45, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Female_race_defiler.svg
Can someone "spin" the 'Female Race Defiler' icon? AKismet 07:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure whether this is an article or a list - it seems like both merged into one. It lacks proper in-text references and the sources and external links make the whole thing difficult.-- h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 14:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
They were used for other groups too. In fact this need to be brought in line with the purple triangle article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.33.103.23 ( talk) 02:07, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
This is not correct! Purple triangles were for Jehovah's Witnesses including converts to their religion which might also include ethnically Jewish individuals. Their purple triangles' specific purpose was to alert guards to their proselytising activities within the camps. Bibelforscher referred to the B in IBV, Jehovah's Witnesses legal name. See Jehovah's Witnesses in National Socialist concentration camps, 1933 - 45 by Johannes S. Wrobel, [1]. Extract below.
The Bible Students were set apart as a completely separate category. The fact that the SS separated them in that way was designed to make Jehovah's Witnesses easily discernible from the other groups of prisoners. … With the category 'Bible Students,' the SS had selected a classification which applied specifically and exclusively to members of this ideological religious denomination. (Garbe, 1999, pp. 405 - 6; English translation in Garbe, 2006)
The "Purple angle" as identification in the concentration camps was for all religious detained prisoners. They were all included under the name "Bible Students". These were not only the "Jehovah's Witnesses", but also the “Dawn Bible Students”, the "Free Bible Students", the "Quakers" and many of the "Reformed Seventh Day Adventists". This fact should not be overlooked by the "Witnesses". There are simply no absolute claims for any one group. -- Bibelforscher ( talk) 14:06, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
This is getting ridiculous. Here are the facts:
So how can anyone justifiably change the meaning of that to 'Purple Triangles referred to people who read the bible, like these people...' I'm not a historian, but I can read article citations. And this article is slowly straying further and further away from all the cited articles on the topic. This page should not cater to those who would like to minimize Jehovah's Witnesses' role in the concentration camps. Thunderbird L17 ( talk) 01:50, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Though I happened to come onto this dispute by noticing the now-removed listing at 3O, and though I am a Third Opinion Wikipedian, this is not a third opinion issued under that project (I am disqualified from issuing a 3O because I have had prior dealings with one of the disputants here), but it is instead just some personal observations and recommendations.
Finally, a word to the wise about edit warring: The edit warring policy says,
"An edit war occurs when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions, rather than trying to resolve the disagreement by discussion."
The three revert rule is merely a bright-line rule and it expressly says,
"Remember that an administrator may still act whenever they believe a user's behavior constitutes edit warring, and any user may report edit-warring, even if the three-revert rule has not been breached. The rule is not an entitlement to revert a page a specific number of times."
What's going on here is clearly an edit war and I must warn you that you stand a risk of having this page protected and/or being blocked from editing if it continues. Decide it by discussion, do a RFC, take it to MedCab, or use some other form of dispute resolution, but stop changing the article page. Best regards, TRANSPORTERMAN ( TALK) 14:09, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
It might help the article if it had dates for when the standardization for the classifications were made. -- Trakon 22:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
There hasn't been any evidence for lesbians to be imprisoned in concentration camps due to their sexual orientation. The archive of the memorial site of Ravensbrück has evidence of four women with an additional remark of being lesbians: two of them been persecuted for political reasons, two for being jewish. One of the jewish inmates was given a black triangle due to sexual contacts with non-jewish persons as Claudia Schoppmann published. ref: Claudia Schoppmann: Nationalsozialistische Sexualpolitik und weibliche Homosexualität. (Dissertation, FU Berlin, 1990.) Centaurus, Pfaffenweiler 1991 (revisited 2nd edition 1997). ISBN 3-89085-538-5</ref> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.73.62.28 ( talk) 19:51, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
ah, this has been found: Elman PhD, R. Amy (1996). "Triangles and Tribulations: The Politics of Nazi Symbols"
[1]
RocketDwiki (
talk)
06:57, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
The caption of the picture states N stands for Dutch, while the article says it stands for Norwegian. 87.193.248.234 ( talk) 14:33, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
There are clearly more gay men persecuted under the pink triangle than straight rapists and pedophiles or people who had sex with animals. We should make that clear in the article. Same with the Jehovah's Witnesses and Bible Students. Were Bible Students persecuted and given a purple triangle? Yes but far more Witnesses were.- Rainbowofpeace ( talk) 10:28, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Since the agreed upon sentence about "Purple Triangle" has been stirred up again, I'm directing attention back to the reason it was written that way in the first place (From the above conversation:
So Adventists, Baptists, and New Apostolics are the most likely religious groups added under the designation. Then Bible Student splinter groups move to "probably" and "Perhaps". Therefore to link to them first and ignore the other groups is not the right option. Making a long list as well for "probable" and "possible" groups that taken together at best is under 1% of the classification is also not a good option. So if the previous definition was unnecessarily long and wordy, Why not just make it:
Purple triangle—primarily Jehovah's Witnesses, as well as a very small minority of other religious groups. [2]
Simple and to the point. And if anyone wants a list of other religious groups (possible, probable, or otherwise) they can go to the Purple Triangle page. - Thunderbird L17 ( talk) 23:48, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
No, it conveys exactly what it is supposed to.
That doesn't even really go far enough to convey "99% Jehovah's Witnesses" but it comes close. And then suggests a very small minority (under 1%) of miscellaneous religious groups, which could include but not be limited to Baptists and Adventists.
Your rendering suggests simply a majority of Witnesses, perhaps "Over 50%" (Or possibly even less if the reader assumes just the highest percentage). And by saying "very small religious groups" it also suggests that either groups such as Baptists and Adventists are "very small religious groups", or that the groups referred to are "Preacher John and his congregation of five", etc. In both cases, it is the wrong conclusion.
- Thunderbird L17 ( talk) 22:43, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
References
Ok, Beyond My Ken, you are the one who needs to do some explaining here and it better to be a good one. So, what country occupied Europe between 1939-1944 approximately? A Nazi nation? A Nazi state? If a Nazi state then what state? Nazi Germany? (added after) - I've reread the entire article as well as the talk page trying to find some clues or remarks regarding the reason for this apparent ill-worded information bein here, but there are none. I'm looking forward to an answer and explanations from you then. GizzyCatBella ( talk) 08:09, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
GCB changed "Nazi-occuped countries" to "German-occupied countries", and I reverted, since "Nazi" is more specific and precise than "German". "Nazi Germany" would also have been acceptable. GCB reverted,and then added a totally unnecessary ref (not needed in the lede), which she herself referred to as "overkill" in her edit summary.The simple fact is that "Germany" is a political entity whose form, boundaires and typeof government have changed radically from era to era, and is therefore simply too vague a term to use when there is a more specific one available which will better inform our readers as to which Germany (German Empire, Weimar Republic, Nazi Germany, West or East Germany, or the current state) was the one which occupied multiple other European countries and ran concentration camps there. For simplicity, clarity, and specificity, "Nazi-" or "Nazi Germany-" are to be preferred over the vaguer, less specific "Germany-". Beyond My Ken ( talk) 14:08, 6 March 2018 (UTC)Nazi concentration camp badges, primarily triangles, were part of the system of identification in Nazi camps. They were used in the concentration camps in the Nazi-occupied countries to identify the reason the prisoners had been placed there.
The current wording loses the significance of Team Trump's use of the inverted red triangle symbol. It was included in a tweet about "far-left" groups. The Nazi government required left wing prisoners in concentration camps to wear these symbols. Without that piece of information the reason why its use provoked reaction is unclear. TFD ( talk) 21:45, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Any particular reason to remove the number of advertisements that were removed from FB? The number is considered significant by many RocketDwiki ( talk) 00:51, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
The 2020 events around the red triangle as hate speech in an ad campaign are growing to be significant enough to warrant their own article. Until that article is created, these events will only serve to clog up and dilute this Nazi concentration camp badge article with play-by-play coverage and possible edit wars. I experienced this quite a bit while working on OK gesture, which also needs to be parsed out into a separate regarding the way it's been used recently as both racist coding and a smokescreen tactic to create political distraction, much as the red triangle is as of this writing. Morganfitzp ( talk) 14:50, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
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