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Kautilya3 Nice job with this page; this is a more elegant solution that attempting to rewrite the monstrosity that was the Assam page. I would be wary of an ORF source that doesn't have editorial oversight, however. Kanchan Gupta', if published by an independent publisher, may be usable, but in a report published by his own organization, I think we should avoid him. Vanamonde ( Talk) 19:41, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
The basic criteria for the NRC Assam should have been added so that the public could have easy access to understanding it's nature. With the ongoing situation, this edit will create more ruckus.very bad timing. Themohitrao ( talk) 23:26, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
Hi User:DiplomatTesterMan, Kautilya3 do you have the list of the detention centres ? hamy many are being built ? I came to know of 16 in Assam and 1 In Bangalore. Anywhere else ? i am sure there will be. Sources will be appreciated. -- DBig Xrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 14:40, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
One in navi mumbai too. Edward Zigma ( talk) 14:58, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
References
User:Kautilya3 you have removed this content as POV, IMHO you are engaging in a bit of whitewashing. This is document fact covered by multiple reliable third party sources. Nothing surprising out here. Unless you have a convincing argument, or a better version of this, this line is going back into the article. -- DBig Xrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 21:08, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
The government FAQ document that is sloshing around is wrong. As per the Indian nationality law, anybody born after 1987 is an Indian citizen only if at least one parent is an Indian citizen. Those born after 2003 also need that the other parent is legal (i.e., not an illegal immigrant). To demonstrate these facts, the parents' birth certificates (or some other proof of their citizenship) might be necessary. In the Assam NRC, they were certainly asked for.
The pan-India NRC is expected to be lighter touch than the Assam NRC. So not everybody may be required to produce all the documents. Only those marked as "doubtful citizens" will be asked to do so. But, to be safe, all people would be well-advised to gather all the requisite documents as per the law. The government FAQ document is of no use. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 21:15, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
DBigXray, Kautilya3, should the text National_Register_of_Citizens#Detention_Centres be moved to Immigration detention in India (as per Immigration detention or List of detention sites in the United States). DTM ( talk) 06:32, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
Q. should the text National_Register_of_Citizens#Detention_Centres be moved to Immigration detention in India ? Answer: No. It should remain here itself. It is a subtopic of NRC. I was thinking of a seperate article Detention Centers in India but IMHO there isnt enough content to merit a seperate article. for now, it should be a part of NRC and once there is enough content, it can be WP:CFORKED leaving a summary at the NRC article. Also note that ASsam detention center are notable on their own, due to Assam NRC. no need to merge it with anything. You can add a summary of ASsam detention center to wherever you like but don't redirect the Assam detention center. -- DBig Xrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 10:44, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
Earlier this year, The Diplomat wrote that there were 10 million stateless people worldwide, but India was becoming the "largest home" of stateless people. [2] This was at a time when the Assam NRC had still excluded 4 million people. That number has since come down to 2 million, with only 700,000 Bengali Muslims. 500,000 were Bengali Hindus, who could possibly pass for refugees, and the rest were north Indians (including locals).
However, a UPA government estimate in 2004 said that there were 12 million Bangladeshi illegal immigrants in India, 5 million in Assam and 5.7 million in West Bengal. [1] The BJP estimates 20 million Bangladeshi illegal immigrants. Demographic indicators support the high numbers. For example, Myron Weiner estimated that, in just one decade 1971-1981, 1.8 million Bangladeshis must have entered Assam. [2]
So, how could the Assam NRC end up with only 1.2 million Bangladeshis overall? The inescapable conclusion is that these people somehow manage to produce the papers to demonstrate their citizenship. So, in the end, the humanitarian problem may not be as bad as people fear. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 23:29, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
References
Kautilya3, User:DiplomatTesterMan check this out. -- DBig Xrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 12:34, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
Despite widespread ongoing protests the government approves National Population Register (NPR) exercise and the amount of Rs 3,941.35 crore for updation of the NPR. [1]
References
I think with the new updates a section on NPR is merited, thoughts ? -- DBig Xrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 13:11, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
I went ahead and started it. Hindu has published pics of NPR form. Should we cover this or wait for more. User:Kautilya3, User:DiplomatTesterMan-- Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBig Xrayᗙ 18:18, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
India's Nobel Prize winner Abhijit Bannerjee : "I'd be petrified by that thought and even if I were - you know just the fact that somebody will come and say 'Look, I'm in charge of making this list I could put doubtful next to your name... or I could not. And maybe you could pay me ten thousand rupees' ", [3]
User:DiplomatTesterMan, User:Kautilya3, I would like to add this to the article as a notable comment. thoughts ? -- DBig Xrayᗙ 22:59, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
References
It is quite obvious that the government has not thought this through, just like Demonetisation and GST. User:Kautilya3 Do you support this quote "Even I don’t know the date of birth of my parents, forget about producing documents proving the dates,” Mr. Paswan told The Hindu." for inclusion in NPR. -- DBig Xrayᗙ 19:39, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
In the section above titled "I could put doubtful next to your name...", I wrote some remarks about what I thought were slowing numbers of immigrants from Bangladesh. I scratched it out when I realized that I had misinterpreted the Fig 3.1 of the report as giving "estimates". It was in fact giving census data, i.e., showing the number of people who indicated to the census takers that they had immigrated. That is not a very reliable indicator of the reality.
Later in Chapter 3, the authors do show detailed estimates of their own based on the demographic data of Assam. The numbers of incoming East Bengali/Bangladeshi immigrants (along with their descendants) are as follows: [1]
The figures are alarming to say the least. Rather than a decline, they actually show an astronomical growth. If the first two decades after independence (when East Bengal was part of Pakistan) the total number of immigrants was a little over half a million, it exceeded 1 million in the next two decades after Bangladesh became independent. Even more remarkably, it almost quadrupled in the decade afterwards (from something like half-million per decade earlier to about 2 million in a decade). It is unfortunate that the authors didn't have the data available for 2011. So, we can't tell whether it is a continuing uptrend or a temporary blip. But with the data available, it has to be said that whatever the Indian government has been doing isn't working and radical measures are warranted.
The total number of immigrants between 1951-2001 (along with their descendants) is estimated at 4.2 million. [1] -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 11:47, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
References
![]() | This discussion has been disrupted by
block evasion,
ban evasion, or
sockpuppetry from the following user:
Comments from this user should be excluded from assessments of consensus. |
Kautilya3, In the reversion
here, you have removed what was cited in the reference used, that is, ", but no person of any religion should worry.", ", despite the PM Narendra Modi saying that people are being misguided about the new law." and this quotation was probably made just in jest:
"A Bharatiya Janata Party government will pick up infiltrators one by one and throw them into the Bay of Bengal."
Kautilya3, You removed the additions to these sentences,:
On 19 November 2019, Home Minister Amit Shah, declared in the Rajya Sabha of the Indian parliament that the NRC will be implemented throughout the country, but no person of any religion should worry." [1]
and
As of 12 January 2020, activists have continued to protest the act on the streets, with a lot of individuals carrying placards criticizing the act as well as the government, despite the PM Narendra Modi saying that people are being misguided about the new law." [2]
However, my additions were taken from the cited references. My addition for the first sentence was, "but no person of any religion should worry" and for the second sentence, it was, "despite the PM Narendra Modi saying that people are being misguided about the new law". So please re-insert those additions. Thanks!—
Spasiba5 (
talk) 06:00, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Kautilya3, I wonder why you can not understand.
In this quotation:-
On 19 November 2019, Home Minister Amit Shah, declared in the Rajya Sabha of the Indian parliament that the NRC will be implemented throughout the country, but no person of any religion should worry." [1]
the
but no person of any religion should worry
is from the title of the reference cited and in this sentence:-
As of 12 January 2020, activists have continued to protest the act on the streets, with a lot of individuals carrying placards criticizing the act as well as the government, despite the PM Narendra Modi saying that people are being misguided about the new law. [2]
the
despite the PM Narendra Modi saying that people are being misguided about the new law
is also from the title of the cited reference, which is why I am asking you to re-insert them!—
Spasiba5 (
talk) 17:33, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
References
https://thewire.in/law/national-population-register-nrc-citizenship-act/amp/
Author is a legal expert-- DBig Xrayᗙ 21:52, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
Amended citizenship law will shield Hindus when NRC will be rolled out, says BJP’s Bengali booklet. I had found the link from this article Quite detailed. -- DBig Xrayᗙ 18:41, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect National Population Register. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Italawar ( talk) 15:41, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
Should the "National Population Register" and "National Social Registry" sections be shifted to a separate " National Population Register" and " National Social Registry" article of its own? Italawar ( talk) 06:21, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
Guys update this article because, Government has made a new bill that it is now implemented on the whole country. Dsp darshanpandey ( talk) 15:40, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
National Register of Citizens article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Kautilya3 Nice job with this page; this is a more elegant solution that attempting to rewrite the monstrosity that was the Assam page. I would be wary of an ORF source that doesn't have editorial oversight, however. Kanchan Gupta', if published by an independent publisher, may be usable, but in a report published by his own organization, I think we should avoid him. Vanamonde ( Talk) 19:41, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
The basic criteria for the NRC Assam should have been added so that the public could have easy access to understanding it's nature. With the ongoing situation, this edit will create more ruckus.very bad timing. Themohitrao ( talk) 23:26, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
Hi User:DiplomatTesterMan, Kautilya3 do you have the list of the detention centres ? hamy many are being built ? I came to know of 16 in Assam and 1 In Bangalore. Anywhere else ? i am sure there will be. Sources will be appreciated. -- DBig Xrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 14:40, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
One in navi mumbai too. Edward Zigma ( talk) 14:58, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
References
User:Kautilya3 you have removed this content as POV, IMHO you are engaging in a bit of whitewashing. This is document fact covered by multiple reliable third party sources. Nothing surprising out here. Unless you have a convincing argument, or a better version of this, this line is going back into the article. -- DBig Xrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 21:08, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
The government FAQ document that is sloshing around is wrong. As per the Indian nationality law, anybody born after 1987 is an Indian citizen only if at least one parent is an Indian citizen. Those born after 2003 also need that the other parent is legal (i.e., not an illegal immigrant). To demonstrate these facts, the parents' birth certificates (or some other proof of their citizenship) might be necessary. In the Assam NRC, they were certainly asked for.
The pan-India NRC is expected to be lighter touch than the Assam NRC. So not everybody may be required to produce all the documents. Only those marked as "doubtful citizens" will be asked to do so. But, to be safe, all people would be well-advised to gather all the requisite documents as per the law. The government FAQ document is of no use. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 21:15, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
DBigXray, Kautilya3, should the text National_Register_of_Citizens#Detention_Centres be moved to Immigration detention in India (as per Immigration detention or List of detention sites in the United States). DTM ( talk) 06:32, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
Q. should the text National_Register_of_Citizens#Detention_Centres be moved to Immigration detention in India ? Answer: No. It should remain here itself. It is a subtopic of NRC. I was thinking of a seperate article Detention Centers in India but IMHO there isnt enough content to merit a seperate article. for now, it should be a part of NRC and once there is enough content, it can be WP:CFORKED leaving a summary at the NRC article. Also note that ASsam detention center are notable on their own, due to Assam NRC. no need to merge it with anything. You can add a summary of ASsam detention center to wherever you like but don't redirect the Assam detention center. -- DBig Xrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 10:44, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
Earlier this year, The Diplomat wrote that there were 10 million stateless people worldwide, but India was becoming the "largest home" of stateless people. [2] This was at a time when the Assam NRC had still excluded 4 million people. That number has since come down to 2 million, with only 700,000 Bengali Muslims. 500,000 were Bengali Hindus, who could possibly pass for refugees, and the rest were north Indians (including locals).
However, a UPA government estimate in 2004 said that there were 12 million Bangladeshi illegal immigrants in India, 5 million in Assam and 5.7 million in West Bengal. [1] The BJP estimates 20 million Bangladeshi illegal immigrants. Demographic indicators support the high numbers. For example, Myron Weiner estimated that, in just one decade 1971-1981, 1.8 million Bangladeshis must have entered Assam. [2]
So, how could the Assam NRC end up with only 1.2 million Bangladeshis overall? The inescapable conclusion is that these people somehow manage to produce the papers to demonstrate their citizenship. So, in the end, the humanitarian problem may not be as bad as people fear. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 23:29, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
References
Kautilya3, User:DiplomatTesterMan check this out. -- DBig Xrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 12:34, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
Despite widespread ongoing protests the government approves National Population Register (NPR) exercise and the amount of Rs 3,941.35 crore for updation of the NPR. [1]
References
I think with the new updates a section on NPR is merited, thoughts ? -- DBig Xrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 13:11, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
I went ahead and started it. Hindu has published pics of NPR form. Should we cover this or wait for more. User:Kautilya3, User:DiplomatTesterMan-- Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBig Xrayᗙ 18:18, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
India's Nobel Prize winner Abhijit Bannerjee : "I'd be petrified by that thought and even if I were - you know just the fact that somebody will come and say 'Look, I'm in charge of making this list I could put doubtful next to your name... or I could not. And maybe you could pay me ten thousand rupees' ", [3]
User:DiplomatTesterMan, User:Kautilya3, I would like to add this to the article as a notable comment. thoughts ? -- DBig Xrayᗙ 22:59, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
References
It is quite obvious that the government has not thought this through, just like Demonetisation and GST. User:Kautilya3 Do you support this quote "Even I don’t know the date of birth of my parents, forget about producing documents proving the dates,” Mr. Paswan told The Hindu." for inclusion in NPR. -- DBig Xrayᗙ 19:39, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
In the section above titled "I could put doubtful next to your name...", I wrote some remarks about what I thought were slowing numbers of immigrants from Bangladesh. I scratched it out when I realized that I had misinterpreted the Fig 3.1 of the report as giving "estimates". It was in fact giving census data, i.e., showing the number of people who indicated to the census takers that they had immigrated. That is not a very reliable indicator of the reality.
Later in Chapter 3, the authors do show detailed estimates of their own based on the demographic data of Assam. The numbers of incoming East Bengali/Bangladeshi immigrants (along with their descendants) are as follows: [1]
The figures are alarming to say the least. Rather than a decline, they actually show an astronomical growth. If the first two decades after independence (when East Bengal was part of Pakistan) the total number of immigrants was a little over half a million, it exceeded 1 million in the next two decades after Bangladesh became independent. Even more remarkably, it almost quadrupled in the decade afterwards (from something like half-million per decade earlier to about 2 million in a decade). It is unfortunate that the authors didn't have the data available for 2011. So, we can't tell whether it is a continuing uptrend or a temporary blip. But with the data available, it has to be said that whatever the Indian government has been doing isn't working and radical measures are warranted.
The total number of immigrants between 1951-2001 (along with their descendants) is estimated at 4.2 million. [1] -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 11:47, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
References
![]() | This discussion has been disrupted by
block evasion,
ban evasion, or
sockpuppetry from the following user:
Comments from this user should be excluded from assessments of consensus. |
Kautilya3, In the reversion
here, you have removed what was cited in the reference used, that is, ", but no person of any religion should worry.", ", despite the PM Narendra Modi saying that people are being misguided about the new law." and this quotation was probably made just in jest:
"A Bharatiya Janata Party government will pick up infiltrators one by one and throw them into the Bay of Bengal."
Kautilya3, You removed the additions to these sentences,:
On 19 November 2019, Home Minister Amit Shah, declared in the Rajya Sabha of the Indian parliament that the NRC will be implemented throughout the country, but no person of any religion should worry." [1]
and
As of 12 January 2020, activists have continued to protest the act on the streets, with a lot of individuals carrying placards criticizing the act as well as the government, despite the PM Narendra Modi saying that people are being misguided about the new law." [2]
However, my additions were taken from the cited references. My addition for the first sentence was, "but no person of any religion should worry" and for the second sentence, it was, "despite the PM Narendra Modi saying that people are being misguided about the new law". So please re-insert those additions. Thanks!—
Spasiba5 (
talk) 06:00, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Kautilya3, I wonder why you can not understand.
In this quotation:-
On 19 November 2019, Home Minister Amit Shah, declared in the Rajya Sabha of the Indian parliament that the NRC will be implemented throughout the country, but no person of any religion should worry." [1]
the
but no person of any religion should worry
is from the title of the reference cited and in this sentence:-
As of 12 January 2020, activists have continued to protest the act on the streets, with a lot of individuals carrying placards criticizing the act as well as the government, despite the PM Narendra Modi saying that people are being misguided about the new law. [2]
the
despite the PM Narendra Modi saying that people are being misguided about the new law
is also from the title of the cited reference, which is why I am asking you to re-insert them!—
Spasiba5 (
talk) 17:33, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
References
https://thewire.in/law/national-population-register-nrc-citizenship-act/amp/
Author is a legal expert-- DBig Xrayᗙ 21:52, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
Amended citizenship law will shield Hindus when NRC will be rolled out, says BJP’s Bengali booklet. I had found the link from this article Quite detailed. -- DBig Xrayᗙ 18:41, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect National Population Register. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Italawar ( talk) 15:41, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
Should the "National Population Register" and "National Social Registry" sections be shifted to a separate " National Population Register" and " National Social Registry" article of its own? Italawar ( talk) 06:21, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
Guys update this article because, Government has made a new bill that it is now implemented on the whole country. Dsp darshanpandey ( talk) 15:40, 11 March 2024 (UTC)