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Napoleon (2023 film) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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@ Rusted AutoParts: Multiple sources say the title has been changed from Kitbag to Napoleon ( Collider, /Film, Witney Gazette, and Deadline at least twice. Deadline even adds "Napoleon [formerly Kitbag]". Some Dude From North Carolina ( talk) 13:49, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
The article contains a line about the Kitbag title having been takin from a saying “"There is a general's staff hidden in every soldier's kitbag." I cannot find this “saying” used other than in reference to this fim (all identically so, so I imagine it has been lifted directly from a press-release. However, I can find multiple uses of a saying attributed to Napoleon along the lines of “Every soldier carries a Field-Marshal’s (or Marshal’s) baton in his knapsack” (although even this appears to consolidate sayings by several people, and may indeed be an older Russian proverb). Do/ did generals ever carry staffs or staves? “General’s staff” might be a confusion of “General Staff”, but as it stands, it looks like this version of the quote was made up for the film. Jock123 ( talk) 11:38, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
Essentially, I put sources proving that Apple TV+'s Apple Original Films is a distributor alongside Sony/Columbia, yet User:PepGuardi is reverting these changes with little to no evidence or reason why. They previously mentioned it on User talk:IAmNMFlores#Napoleon film yet never responded back after days. IAmNMFlores ( talk) 16:45, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
I mean I can send you a random site that says the earth is flat, this doesn’t make the earth flat. You’ve been blocked by Wikipedia for insisting in poorly sourced content, so you have to take extra care with this, because right now you’re presenting sources to argue Apple TV+ (a solely stream service) is a theatrical distributor. I advise you again to ready about the difference between Netflix and Apple strategies, this could help you to understand why Apple is handing over their movies to be delivered by well established distributors whereas Netflix refuses to give their films a conventional theatrical distribution. I mean, once again I advise you to read Wikipedia articles for Apple TV+, Apple Films Studios and general Apple, once you understand Apple doesn’t have any theatrical distribution branch you’ll understand why Apple needs to partner with the theatrical distributors. PepGuardi ( talk) 12:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
So to recap, it says that Apple co-distributed with Sony in /Film, Looper, and The Hollywood Reporter, plus in the article List of Apple TV+ original films#Original films. UPDATE: It literally says Apple TV+ Jumps Into Theatrical Movie Distribution, confirming Apple does theatrically distribute. IAmNMFlores ( talk) 02:40, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Can we please add his response to the historian community on the inaccuracies.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/nov/20/ridley-scott-napoleon-interviewee
in this article, he says verbatim '“Excuse me, mate, were you there?” he raged. “No? Well, shut the fuck up then' BigUnit69 ( talk) 18:12, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
At 1:10 they confused Francis I, Holy Roman Emperor with Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor. Taksen ( talk) 05:03, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
The article lists the budget as $130–200 million. The is quite a large range of difference with no explanation in the article body. Can we get any clarity on that? Did the film get
greenlit at a lower price and go over budget for some reason? Did the fast pace of production push up costs? Is the higher figure including other costs (reshoots?) that the lower cost did not? Are UK tax credits part of the price difference? (That could account for as much as a 25% difference, but it seems unlikely to explain that large a difference.) Is the lower value the
cost of making the film only and the higher figure the price at which Apple bought it from
Scott Free Productions? The Variety reference says Napoleon "cost $200 million"
and the very next sentence said "The company also bought Matthew Vaughn’s spy thriller “Argylle” for $200 million.
which seems to indicate not so much the actual production budget of the film, so much as the price Apple paid to buy it and distribute it (like when they bought
CODA (2021 film) for $25 million, when the film itself costhad a production budget of $10 million). If we could get any clarification on this and maybe be able to add information to the Production section (or release section) that could significantly improve the article. --
109.77.193.78 (
talk)
17:42, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
Please note
WP:FILMGENRE, "Genre classifications should comply with WP:WEIGHT and reflect what is specified by a majority of mainstream reliable sources."
. The lead section is supposed to be concise, and if possible list the primary genre not every possible applicable genre. An editor tried to add even more genres to the first sentence, and offered the BBFC website as a reference
[4] when the sidebar for that site very cleary and simply categorizes Napoleon as Genre(s) Drama.
The previous status quo was "epic historical drama". I believe there should be some discussion before making any changes to the genre. -- 109.76.131.29 ( talk) 13:38, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
This is a completely unbelievable claim for anyone with even a passing understanding of box office - a film with a budget up to $200 million budget (not including marketing, which would also be in the 8 figures for a film like this) could not possibly only lose 16 million, especially since theatres also take 40-50% or so percent of the box office gross - so I looked at the deadline article cited and it says..
"In the case of Napoleon, with an average production cost of $165M and a global gross of $219.3M, film finance sources tell me that the Ridley Scott-directed, 3x Oscar- nominated movie likely lost around $16M in its theatrical run off the global marketing spend alone"
i.e there appears to be a misunderstanding, the deadline article says the film lost $16 million before even accounting for production costs (i.e, the box office didn't even cover the marketing budget), this is obviously not the same thing as only losing $16 million total.
The deadline article does however quote a far less shocking figure a few sentences down
"However, the massive $165M loss hangs on Apple."
I'm keep the source but changing the up above sentence. CASalt ( talk) 08:12, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Napoleon (2023 film) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: |
@ Rusted AutoParts: Multiple sources say the title has been changed from Kitbag to Napoleon ( Collider, /Film, Witney Gazette, and Deadline at least twice. Deadline even adds "Napoleon [formerly Kitbag]". Some Dude From North Carolina ( talk) 13:49, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
The article contains a line about the Kitbag title having been takin from a saying “"There is a general's staff hidden in every soldier's kitbag." I cannot find this “saying” used other than in reference to this fim (all identically so, so I imagine it has been lifted directly from a press-release. However, I can find multiple uses of a saying attributed to Napoleon along the lines of “Every soldier carries a Field-Marshal’s (or Marshal’s) baton in his knapsack” (although even this appears to consolidate sayings by several people, and may indeed be an older Russian proverb). Do/ did generals ever carry staffs or staves? “General’s staff” might be a confusion of “General Staff”, but as it stands, it looks like this version of the quote was made up for the film. Jock123 ( talk) 11:38, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
Essentially, I put sources proving that Apple TV+'s Apple Original Films is a distributor alongside Sony/Columbia, yet User:PepGuardi is reverting these changes with little to no evidence or reason why. They previously mentioned it on User talk:IAmNMFlores#Napoleon film yet never responded back after days. IAmNMFlores ( talk) 16:45, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
I mean I can send you a random site that says the earth is flat, this doesn’t make the earth flat. You’ve been blocked by Wikipedia for insisting in poorly sourced content, so you have to take extra care with this, because right now you’re presenting sources to argue Apple TV+ (a solely stream service) is a theatrical distributor. I advise you again to ready about the difference between Netflix and Apple strategies, this could help you to understand why Apple is handing over their movies to be delivered by well established distributors whereas Netflix refuses to give their films a conventional theatrical distribution. I mean, once again I advise you to read Wikipedia articles for Apple TV+, Apple Films Studios and general Apple, once you understand Apple doesn’t have any theatrical distribution branch you’ll understand why Apple needs to partner with the theatrical distributors. PepGuardi ( talk) 12:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
So to recap, it says that Apple co-distributed with Sony in /Film, Looper, and The Hollywood Reporter, plus in the article List of Apple TV+ original films#Original films. UPDATE: It literally says Apple TV+ Jumps Into Theatrical Movie Distribution, confirming Apple does theatrically distribute. IAmNMFlores ( talk) 02:40, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Can we please add his response to the historian community on the inaccuracies.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/nov/20/ridley-scott-napoleon-interviewee
in this article, he says verbatim '“Excuse me, mate, were you there?” he raged. “No? Well, shut the fuck up then' BigUnit69 ( talk) 18:12, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
At 1:10 they confused Francis I, Holy Roman Emperor with Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor. Taksen ( talk) 05:03, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
The article lists the budget as $130–200 million. The is quite a large range of difference with no explanation in the article body. Can we get any clarity on that? Did the film get
greenlit at a lower price and go over budget for some reason? Did the fast pace of production push up costs? Is the higher figure including other costs (reshoots?) that the lower cost did not? Are UK tax credits part of the price difference? (That could account for as much as a 25% difference, but it seems unlikely to explain that large a difference.) Is the lower value the
cost of making the film only and the higher figure the price at which Apple bought it from
Scott Free Productions? The Variety reference says Napoleon "cost $200 million"
and the very next sentence said "The company also bought Matthew Vaughn’s spy thriller “Argylle” for $200 million.
which seems to indicate not so much the actual production budget of the film, so much as the price Apple paid to buy it and distribute it (like when they bought
CODA (2021 film) for $25 million, when the film itself costhad a production budget of $10 million). If we could get any clarification on this and maybe be able to add information to the Production section (or release section) that could significantly improve the article. --
109.77.193.78 (
talk)
17:42, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
Please note
WP:FILMGENRE, "Genre classifications should comply with WP:WEIGHT and reflect what is specified by a majority of mainstream reliable sources."
. The lead section is supposed to be concise, and if possible list the primary genre not every possible applicable genre. An editor tried to add even more genres to the first sentence, and offered the BBFC website as a reference
[4] when the sidebar for that site very cleary and simply categorizes Napoleon as Genre(s) Drama.
The previous status quo was "epic historical drama". I believe there should be some discussion before making any changes to the genre. -- 109.76.131.29 ( talk) 13:38, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
This is a completely unbelievable claim for anyone with even a passing understanding of box office - a film with a budget up to $200 million budget (not including marketing, which would also be in the 8 figures for a film like this) could not possibly only lose 16 million, especially since theatres also take 40-50% or so percent of the box office gross - so I looked at the deadline article cited and it says..
"In the case of Napoleon, with an average production cost of $165M and a global gross of $219.3M, film finance sources tell me that the Ridley Scott-directed, 3x Oscar- nominated movie likely lost around $16M in its theatrical run off the global marketing spend alone"
i.e there appears to be a misunderstanding, the deadline article says the film lost $16 million before even accounting for production costs (i.e, the box office didn't even cover the marketing budget), this is obviously not the same thing as only losing $16 million total.
The deadline article does however quote a far less shocking figure a few sentences down
"However, the massive $165M loss hangs on Apple."
I'm keep the source but changing the up above sentence. CASalt ( talk) 08:12, 25 June 2024 (UTC)