This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Muslim Sicily article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 5 June 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Emirate of Sicily to Muslim Sicily. The result of the discussion was moved. |
The successor state here should be the County of Sicily. We have articles on all three Counts:
Unfortunately we have no article on the County yet. We move straight to the Kingdom of Sicily established in 1130. Anyone interested in feeling the gap? User:Dimadick
I'm starting a discussion here in response to User:Animagentile merging History of Islam in southern Italy into Emirate of Sicily. I think this merger is pointless simply because the Emirate of Sicily article is far too narrow in scope: it only covers the history of Islam in Sicily during the years 965-1072. The Muslims first attacked Sicily in 652, long before the Emirate was established in 965, and they also attacked other parts of southern Italy as well besides Sicily. The History of Islam in southern Italy covers the entire history of Islam in southern Italy from the 7th century up until the 13th century, from the very first Muslim invasions through to the Norman invasion and Holy Roman Empire. If you merge the article into Emirate of Sicily, then a whole lot of information will be lost, and there is no way I can accept such a merger. Jagged 85 ( talk) 16:57, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
A POV dispute tag was added in December 2008. What is the dispute so we can work it out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommylotto ( talk • contribs) 19:32, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Not having received a response, I will remove the dispute tags... Tommylotto ( talk) 19:54, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
I added some new material to this section, but left the original material even though it has some internal inconsistencies and needs additional editing. I personally think we should try to steer clear of the myth of religious harmony and coexistence. It is true that the Muslims were not immediately extirpated, and they sometimes worked together, but we still had a master race and a subservient race. Tommylotto ( talk) 23:58, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Yet another POV tag was placed on the Conquered Population section. What is the problem here? The section is sited to Michele Amari's preeminent treatise on the history of Islam in Sicily. Tommylotto ( talk) 23:12, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
The section conquerer population is POV because it does only mention a large list of restrictions put on christians. To mention only this over emphatizes the discrimination and gives for sure a flawed view of the sitiation there. Dentren | Talk 23:28, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Emirate of Sicily. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 19:50, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Emirate of Sicily. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:22, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Emirate of Sicily. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 11:28, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Emirate of Sicily. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:51, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Emirate of Sicily. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:00, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Leaving aside the edit-warring from a particular user or users trying to impose other problematic edits, one minor thing that can be addressed more straightforwardly I think is to remove the word "Moors" in the lead. While this is a historical exonym, it does not actually have a specific meaning and doesn't denote a well-defined group of people (as that main page itself explains), not to mention that some people consider it a demeaning term in one way or another. I'd suggest just saying "Muslims" instead of "Muslim Moors", as "Moors" isn't really necessary here anyways; if an ethnic description is required here or elsewhere, we can simply specify "Arabs and Berbers" (or whichever demographics are described in reliable sources). Normally I would be bold and just do it but since there's been edit-warring I wanted to check for consent here first. R Prazeres ( talk) 01:15, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
The Taifa period section, where I just did some reordering and rewriting, ends with the sentence, "After the conquest of Sicily, the Normans removed the local emir, Yusuf Ibn Abdallah from power, but did so by respecting Arab customs." I think this needs expressed better but I really don't know what this means, how one removes an emir from power by respecting Arab custom, the link is dead, and it was just a web page anyhow. And it this the last Sicilian Emir, or on Malta, also mentioned in the prior sentence? Can anyone help? Agricolae ( talk) 20:10, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Stop associating emirate of Sicily with other religious groups it's false you don't know the history of Sicily 174.247.64.220 ( talk) 00:10, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Favonian ( talk) 18:08, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
Emirate of Sicily → Muslim Sicily – For two main reasons:
R Prazeres ( talk) 18:00, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
References
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Muslim Sicily article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 5 June 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Emirate of Sicily to Muslim Sicily. The result of the discussion was moved. |
The successor state here should be the County of Sicily. We have articles on all three Counts:
Unfortunately we have no article on the County yet. We move straight to the Kingdom of Sicily established in 1130. Anyone interested in feeling the gap? User:Dimadick
I'm starting a discussion here in response to User:Animagentile merging History of Islam in southern Italy into Emirate of Sicily. I think this merger is pointless simply because the Emirate of Sicily article is far too narrow in scope: it only covers the history of Islam in Sicily during the years 965-1072. The Muslims first attacked Sicily in 652, long before the Emirate was established in 965, and they also attacked other parts of southern Italy as well besides Sicily. The History of Islam in southern Italy covers the entire history of Islam in southern Italy from the 7th century up until the 13th century, from the very first Muslim invasions through to the Norman invasion and Holy Roman Empire. If you merge the article into Emirate of Sicily, then a whole lot of information will be lost, and there is no way I can accept such a merger. Jagged 85 ( talk) 16:57, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
A POV dispute tag was added in December 2008. What is the dispute so we can work it out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommylotto ( talk • contribs) 19:32, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Not having received a response, I will remove the dispute tags... Tommylotto ( talk) 19:54, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
I added some new material to this section, but left the original material even though it has some internal inconsistencies and needs additional editing. I personally think we should try to steer clear of the myth of religious harmony and coexistence. It is true that the Muslims were not immediately extirpated, and they sometimes worked together, but we still had a master race and a subservient race. Tommylotto ( talk) 23:58, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Yet another POV tag was placed on the Conquered Population section. What is the problem here? The section is sited to Michele Amari's preeminent treatise on the history of Islam in Sicily. Tommylotto ( talk) 23:12, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
The section conquerer population is POV because it does only mention a large list of restrictions put on christians. To mention only this over emphatizes the discrimination and gives for sure a flawed view of the sitiation there. Dentren | Talk 23:28, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Emirate of Sicily. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 19:50, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Emirate of Sicily. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:22, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Emirate of Sicily. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 11:28, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Emirate of Sicily. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:51, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Emirate of Sicily. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:00, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Leaving aside the edit-warring from a particular user or users trying to impose other problematic edits, one minor thing that can be addressed more straightforwardly I think is to remove the word "Moors" in the lead. While this is a historical exonym, it does not actually have a specific meaning and doesn't denote a well-defined group of people (as that main page itself explains), not to mention that some people consider it a demeaning term in one way or another. I'd suggest just saying "Muslims" instead of "Muslim Moors", as "Moors" isn't really necessary here anyways; if an ethnic description is required here or elsewhere, we can simply specify "Arabs and Berbers" (or whichever demographics are described in reliable sources). Normally I would be bold and just do it but since there's been edit-warring I wanted to check for consent here first. R Prazeres ( talk) 01:15, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
The Taifa period section, where I just did some reordering and rewriting, ends with the sentence, "After the conquest of Sicily, the Normans removed the local emir, Yusuf Ibn Abdallah from power, but did so by respecting Arab customs." I think this needs expressed better but I really don't know what this means, how one removes an emir from power by respecting Arab custom, the link is dead, and it was just a web page anyhow. And it this the last Sicilian Emir, or on Malta, also mentioned in the prior sentence? Can anyone help? Agricolae ( talk) 20:10, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Stop associating emirate of Sicily with other religious groups it's false you don't know the history of Sicily 174.247.64.220 ( talk) 00:10, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Favonian ( talk) 18:08, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
Emirate of Sicily → Muslim Sicily – For two main reasons:
R Prazeres ( talk) 18:00, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
References