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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Michelin Guide was copied or moved into List of Michelin starred restaurants in Florida on 13 June 2022. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
It seems unlikely that the Guide was published continuously from its inception. Does anyone know what years it wasn't published? I'm assuming that say, in 1944, there wasn't a guide. Yet I've seen reports of WWII soldiers using the guide. Anyone have any knowledge on that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alisar ( talk • contribs) 01:43, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
"(It should be noted, however, that Tokyo is home to 160,000 restaurants, versus New York's 25,000 and Paris's 13,000 .[2])"
I fail to see how this is at all relevant, especially as probably well over half of those "restaurants" in Tokyo are ramen shops, donut shops, and the like. Unless somebody can come up with a reason as to why the number of tokyo is an important factor here, other than as a feeble and unnecessary attempt to make Paris/Ny not look so bad by comparison, I strongly recommend this be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.7.16.244 ( talk) 12:03, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be called "Michelin Red Guide"? Michelin also make green guides, which are general tourist information. Notinasnaid 12:43, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
On second thoughts, having examined some copies, what is it called? Many don't even have title pages. Notinasnaid 12:46, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I have a Michelin Guide in front of me right now.. this one is Blue, and is a combination of Maps, Hotels & Restaurants and Touristic Guide. Within the article the mention of the color red confused me.. would it be wise to state somewhere that the Michelin Restaurant Guide is traditionally Red? Oh, the title of this guide is 'De Grote Gids België' (The Big Guide Belgium). Kander 09:22, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
The article currently implies that the term Michelin Guide is synonymous with Red Guide, but what about the other colours? How does the colour coding work exactly - is it red for both restaurants and hotels and green for travel and tourism, as the Michelin article says and ViaMichelin seems to show? Where does the blue come in if so, is it really green? Flapdragon 19:29, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, I've incorporated that info into the article, would value corrections. Flapdragon 16:24, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
"However, most news reports attributed this suicide to a downgrade by the rival Gault Millau guide" is a ridiculous statement and should be removed. The disease is probably what made the man kill himself, not the downgrade of his restaurang. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.164.229 ( talk) 08:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
This tag was added:
The examples and perspective in this article may not represent a
worldwide view of the subject. |
It is true that the article reflects a European point of view. However, it is also the case that until 2006 they only covered Europe. In 2006, New York was added, but it too early too say what the effect of this would be. However, I don't think it would really be debated that the rating system was "probably the most influential in the world". So I will remove the tag, ok? Notinasnaid 17:50, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Has it influenced China? Japan? Dubai? the United States? Canada? Australia? The system is too Euro-centric to be the most influential "in the world". The article will be changed accordingly. - SigmaEpsilon → Σ Ε 20:11, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Since noone has come up with an alternative pick for most influential guide in the world, I am removing the citation needed tag. I would consider removing the word 'probably' too. THJS
In fact, the entire statement was removed. How "influential" something is is enormously subjective. It even can be different per individual. You may find the Michelin Guide’s influence among fine diners in Paris but there are others that don’t know or care. Subjective claims like this are POV. I’m sure the people over at Gault Millau would have a different POV. Padillah ( talk) 13:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Found on http://www.beyond.fr/food/michelin-guide.html
"By 1920, the dining part had become so popular, Michelin established a team of anonymous inspectors, and started a new 3-category rating system for the restaurants. They took advertising out of the guide and began charging 7 francs for it. (Wikipedia says that a 1-star mark for good cooking was added in 1926, and the 3-category system began in the early 1930s."
Has anyone a source for the wiki version of the origin? -- 82.22.139.25 13:45, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I do believe that Tokyo is the city with the most stars in the guide, but I'm afraid I don't have a citation for this. Does anyone else? Is this relevant to include in the article, or just trivia? (I'd argue it's not trivia, as it's a symbol of changing attitudes towards which cities in the world are the tops in cuisine - Tokyo has more stars than Paris? Rome? New York? - and of the continuing rise in prominence of East Asia as a whole in the world.) LordAmeth ( talk) 01:32, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/business/worldbusiness/24guide.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
NYT article above details some reservations of Japanese chefs and media about the Michelin Guide. -- Madchester ( talk) 03:10, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone besides me see a fair amount of bias in the controversy section? In particular, the incident with the chef who committed suicide. Why is it Michelin's fault that he committed suicide? Especially when the rumours proved to be false. And the part about the guide only publishing the best restaurants is clearly biased. Wouldn't it obviously do that because this is a guide to fine restaurants? The entire section should be editted for non-POV.( Myscrnnm ( talk) 06:43, 26 June 2008 (UTC))
The Wynn hotel article claims that the hotel has 5 stars in the Michelin Guide, without providing a link. The Michelin Guide article only mentions 3 stars. An anonymous committer said that the hotel guide used 5 stars while the restaurant used 3 stars. Can anyone update the Michelin Guide article or the Wynn article accordingly? Gnurkel ( talk) 15:14, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
It would be interesting to know the basis for hotel ratings as well as restaurant ratings. During a trip to France in 1987, I discovered that a hotel could go from one to two stars (or maybe from two to three) by having a bathroom in every room: many modest hotels "upgraded" their rooms by carving a corner off a small room to build a tiny bathroom—an improvement some guests would find dubious. (I think most Americans considered a private bath necessary, and some Europeans were less picky about plumbing.) On this trip, I used the Red and Green Michelin Guides, and I found the ratings clear and unambiguous. I don't still have these guides and am not planning any foreign trips in the immediate future. I haven't found comparable information on the Web recently. WP explains the criteria for restaurants, as well as stating that one Vegas hotel has five stars, but does give the criteria for one, two, three, four, or five stars for a hotel, or particulars for hotels that were not exceptional. This would be useful, particular for travelers planning a trip in advance. Some people need certain amenities (such as a private bath, a gym, or high-speed Internet access) and others consider them mere luxuries. Donfbreed ( talk) 08:03, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
The section begins with: "Because of their reputation, the Michelin Guides have been subject to scrutiny and criticism." I'm not sure one can assume that the guides are criticized "because of their reputation". Seems like an arbitrary conclusion to me. 71.174.192.79 ( talk) 02:08, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
The article says the cover was blue before 1931 --- right next to a picture of a red one from 1929. I also did a Google image search and found the first one, from 1900, which was red. Where does this blue cover stuff come in? Orlando098 ( talk) 07:10, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I propose to delete the section "Allegations of lax inspection standards" from the part "Controversy". The writer of the book is an ex-employee with a clear grudge (= POV) against his former employer. The big part here gives clearly undue weight to the story. It should be removed or significantly reduced. Night of the Big Wind talk 16:31, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
i don't have the full numbers, but there's some recent guides which are not covered here, chicago now has only one 3-star restaurant, france 25 instead of 26 (which makes japan the one with most 3-stars!!!!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.30.251.6 ( talk) 12:28, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
This article seems to indicate that Michelin stars are awarded to restaurants, not to individuals. Anyone familiar with the many cooking reality shows (Hell's Kitchen, Masterchef, Kitchen Nightmares, etc.) has heard of chefs "having" or losing Michelin stars. Presumably they were simply the head chef at a restaurant that had been awarded Michelin stars? Recently on Masterchef, celebrity chefs were described as having 20+ Michelin stars, and the article on Gordon Ramsay apparently once stated that "Ramsay currently ranks 3rd in the world in terms of Michelin Stars behind Joël Robuchon and Alain Ducasse". Since a restaurant can only have three stars, and it's unlikely that anyone is the head chef at 6 or more restaurants, these people are presumably counting all of the Michelin stars awarded to restaurants that they own?
Properly or improperly, people are clearly being described in popular culture as having Michelin stars for running and/or owning restaurants with Michelin stars (assuming that Michelin does not award stars to individuals). It definitely seems like there should be a section about this phenomenon in the article, or a new article. A list of "holders" of the most Michelin stars may also be appropriate. DOSGuy ( talk) 20:55, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Why is a tire company rating food? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.174.73.240 ( talk) 10:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
That was myself not logged-in who re-added the update about the chef who commited suicide. That item was part of the article for a very long time. Also, see "further reading"-"life and death of a perfectionist chef". I agree with what you say that Michelin was not really involved, but since they are still writing books about it ten years later, it is part of the Guide's story in my opinion and I was surprized to see the information missing-that's why I added it. Housewifehader ( talk) 16:13, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Is it a good idea to publish the follwing section in the article about the Michelin Guide
“ |
When celebrated 3-star chef Bernard Loiseau, committed suicide, much was made of a rumor that Loiseau was about to be downgraded by the guide. Ten years later, in 2013, the Michelin Guide stands by the original claim that they had nothing to do with the death, and they point-out that;"Le Relais Bernard Loiseau still has its three stars" [1] |
” |
At the time, Michelin denied the rumors that it had threatened Loiseau, and still denies it today.
A request for advice is send to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink. The Banner talk 20:30, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
But as far as "being involved" in the "story"/"controversy"--This is part of Michelin's history and they have made numerous public statements, such as, "They tried to call us murderers.", and they participated in investigating the allegations. I don't care how it is worded, most readers can decide for themselves when they see they word, "suicide"--what that means is that someone took their own life. Why hide this info.?
Housewifehader (
talk)
19:58, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
In the section "Allegations of lax inspection standards and bias", there are conflicting claims that Rémy was fired in 2004 and 2003. Which was it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.164.10.19 ( talk) 09:50, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
I have severe doubts about the section "Inflated or mismatching expectations from awarded restaurants". In my opinion, this section is about facts that have little of nothing to do with the Michelin Guide itself. You can not blame the Guide for wrong expectations of the guest of starred restaurants. It is hopelessly frustrating for the restaurants involved but the problem is entirely with the guests, not with the Guide.
So I propose removal of that section. The Banner talk 02:35, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
There aren't just an isolated few, there are loads: http://www.businessinsider.com/french-chef-jerome-brochot-gave-up-michelin-star-because-he-cant-afford-it-2017-12 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42872201 https://www.eater.com/2017/9/21/16345242/chefs-give-back-michelin-stars Can someone add those? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:7D0:8310:5B80:DACB:8AFF:FEA7:FCDD ( talk) 15:40, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Anyone have the ability to update with new information in regards to this other Michelin mention type, called the Michelin Plate, and was introduced in 2018 to mention places that the auditors and inspectors found quality food at low prices, lower than Bib Gourmand? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:A600:27:94A6:3726:E82F:C6D1 ( talk) 20:58, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
In the history section, the first time restaurants are mentioned, it mentions changes "…notably listing restaurants by specific categories." But it never mentions when they began listing restaurants. At the start, it says the guide mentioned "maps, tire repair and replacement instructions, car mechanics listings, hotels, and petrol stations." Should that initial list include restaurants? Or did they start including restaurants later? — MiguelMunoz ( talk) 23:01, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
Both "tyre" and "tire" are used in the article, and there have recently been two edits reverted regarding changing one of the instances (without the others). My understanding is that it's not a straight WP:ENGVAR issue – there is a time period issue as well. All four instances of "tire" are in Michelin Guide#History, while the two instances of "tyre" are in the lead and Michelin Guide#Allegations of leniency with stars for Japanese cuisine. Should some of these spellings be changed? —[ AlanM1 ( talk)]— 22:24, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
All instances should be "tire". I just tried to change one instance (it's the only one I saw at the time).
"Tyre" is NOT the correct spelling of the word. It's "tire". Jimv1983 ( talk) 17:52, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
The Michelin Guide debuted a Green Star distinction for sustainable gastronomy. Currently only restaurants in Scandinavia and California have been awarded Green Stars but that is because they haven't reviewed any other location. Can we make a section about that? ( Hello23223 ( talk) 20:29, 16 November 2020 (UTC))
{{
Michelinstar}}
to go with it. 21 restaurants in Spain have now been awarded the Green Star for sustainability according to
this.
Toddst1 (
talk)
16:28, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
{{
Michelin green star}}
created and used in first article.
Toddst1 (
talk)
21:46, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
Certainly in the begin time of this article, the base of it were the actual paper books. But I am now confused about that principle. Do they bring out books about new areas, like Turkey or Toronto, or is it far more website driven? The Banner talk 01:58, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
Would Category:Bib Gourmand restaurants be appropriate? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 02:33, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 January 2024 and 3 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): LunarWhisperer, Lynnllll ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Lynnllll ( talk) 19:10, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
@ The Banner: Greetings! I'm not sure I entirely understand your reason for this removal, which was given in the edit summary as "this is a problem for the restaurants and its owners." Yes, these certainly are problems for restaurants, and they blame the Michelin judges for creating them. In some cases this is why chefs don't compete for Michelin stars, are unhappy when they are awarded, or don't want the Michelin guide to come to their city. It seems to me like a notable critique. -- Beland ( talk) 20:15, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
Recent objections have focused on the elaborate, multicourse menus that draw Michelin stars. They have historically relied on long hours of low-paid (sometimes unpaid) labor, raising questions about the human cost of fine dining. René Redzepi, the chef of Noma, in Copenhagen, decided to close the restaurant soon after it finally won its third star, citing the unsustainability of the business model.
But most chefs said the opportunity Michelin offers for a steady supply of well-heeled diners, eager sous-chefs and endless publicity trumps any other concerns. And many say that having Michelin stars to strive for simply makes restaurants better.
(outdent)
TheBanner, I don't feel like you're quite grasping this. I agree that it's not entirely Michelin's fault, but they are not a neutral, impassive player in this industry problem.
The chefs in these sources are telling us that the idea of fine dining that Michelin promotes is not something that works in practice, regardless of your business acumen. There are only so many people in the world who can spend $500 or $1000 per person for dinner, and even at those eye-watering prices, there's a decent chance that someone is being unfairly exploited to make it happen. There is a limit to how high they can raise their prices. If every person were fairly paid, then that $1000-per-person meal might cost $1500 per person, and the lack of people who are willing to pay that price would result in the restaurant closing.
The chefs are telling that this exploitation happens at Michelin-favored restaurants because of Michelin's preferred style. Michelin is not directly saying that they want people to be exploited, but they are saying that they want their dinners to require many hours of skilled labor and their table service to require a substantial fraction of an employee's time. If Michelin happened to prefer dishes that could be prepared with low labor costs, and if they happened to prefer a service style that did not require so much hands-on effort from the staff, then Michelin restaurants would not have so much exploited staff. But they don't: they happen to prefer dishes that require someone to hand-mince apples into perfectly even 2mm cubes, measuring as they go, times 20 other meticulously prepared ingredients, so they can all be cooked together into something that the Michelin reviewer will eat three bites of, and all the other diners wonder if that three-bite dish was actually worth the $39 charged for it (plus sales tax and tip if you're in the US). The sources say that Michelin is only part of the problem, but they are part of the problem. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 03:44, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
The customers expect a parade of appetizers when the gastronomic menu starts, in a setting that, according to them, also deserves one star. Take a shrimp croquette. People expect a starred chef to give his own interpretation of that dish. I just want to make a really good shrimp croquette
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Michelin Guide article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Text and/or other creative content from this version of Michelin Guide was copied or moved into List of Michelin starred restaurants in Florida on 13 June 2022. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
It seems unlikely that the Guide was published continuously from its inception. Does anyone know what years it wasn't published? I'm assuming that say, in 1944, there wasn't a guide. Yet I've seen reports of WWII soldiers using the guide. Anyone have any knowledge on that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alisar ( talk • contribs) 01:43, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
"(It should be noted, however, that Tokyo is home to 160,000 restaurants, versus New York's 25,000 and Paris's 13,000 .[2])"
I fail to see how this is at all relevant, especially as probably well over half of those "restaurants" in Tokyo are ramen shops, donut shops, and the like. Unless somebody can come up with a reason as to why the number of tokyo is an important factor here, other than as a feeble and unnecessary attempt to make Paris/Ny not look so bad by comparison, I strongly recommend this be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.7.16.244 ( talk) 12:03, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be called "Michelin Red Guide"? Michelin also make green guides, which are general tourist information. Notinasnaid 12:43, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
On second thoughts, having examined some copies, what is it called? Many don't even have title pages. Notinasnaid 12:46, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I have a Michelin Guide in front of me right now.. this one is Blue, and is a combination of Maps, Hotels & Restaurants and Touristic Guide. Within the article the mention of the color red confused me.. would it be wise to state somewhere that the Michelin Restaurant Guide is traditionally Red? Oh, the title of this guide is 'De Grote Gids België' (The Big Guide Belgium). Kander 09:22, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
The article currently implies that the term Michelin Guide is synonymous with Red Guide, but what about the other colours? How does the colour coding work exactly - is it red for both restaurants and hotels and green for travel and tourism, as the Michelin article says and ViaMichelin seems to show? Where does the blue come in if so, is it really green? Flapdragon 19:29, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, I've incorporated that info into the article, would value corrections. Flapdragon 16:24, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
"However, most news reports attributed this suicide to a downgrade by the rival Gault Millau guide" is a ridiculous statement and should be removed. The disease is probably what made the man kill himself, not the downgrade of his restaurang. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.164.229 ( talk) 08:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
This tag was added:
The examples and perspective in this article may not represent a
worldwide view of the subject. |
It is true that the article reflects a European point of view. However, it is also the case that until 2006 they only covered Europe. In 2006, New York was added, but it too early too say what the effect of this would be. However, I don't think it would really be debated that the rating system was "probably the most influential in the world". So I will remove the tag, ok? Notinasnaid 17:50, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Has it influenced China? Japan? Dubai? the United States? Canada? Australia? The system is too Euro-centric to be the most influential "in the world". The article will be changed accordingly. - SigmaEpsilon → Σ Ε 20:11, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Since noone has come up with an alternative pick for most influential guide in the world, I am removing the citation needed tag. I would consider removing the word 'probably' too. THJS
In fact, the entire statement was removed. How "influential" something is is enormously subjective. It even can be different per individual. You may find the Michelin Guide’s influence among fine diners in Paris but there are others that don’t know or care. Subjective claims like this are POV. I’m sure the people over at Gault Millau would have a different POV. Padillah ( talk) 13:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Found on http://www.beyond.fr/food/michelin-guide.html
"By 1920, the dining part had become so popular, Michelin established a team of anonymous inspectors, and started a new 3-category rating system for the restaurants. They took advertising out of the guide and began charging 7 francs for it. (Wikipedia says that a 1-star mark for good cooking was added in 1926, and the 3-category system began in the early 1930s."
Has anyone a source for the wiki version of the origin? -- 82.22.139.25 13:45, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I do believe that Tokyo is the city with the most stars in the guide, but I'm afraid I don't have a citation for this. Does anyone else? Is this relevant to include in the article, or just trivia? (I'd argue it's not trivia, as it's a symbol of changing attitudes towards which cities in the world are the tops in cuisine - Tokyo has more stars than Paris? Rome? New York? - and of the continuing rise in prominence of East Asia as a whole in the world.) LordAmeth ( talk) 01:32, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/business/worldbusiness/24guide.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
NYT article above details some reservations of Japanese chefs and media about the Michelin Guide. -- Madchester ( talk) 03:10, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone besides me see a fair amount of bias in the controversy section? In particular, the incident with the chef who committed suicide. Why is it Michelin's fault that he committed suicide? Especially when the rumours proved to be false. And the part about the guide only publishing the best restaurants is clearly biased. Wouldn't it obviously do that because this is a guide to fine restaurants? The entire section should be editted for non-POV.( Myscrnnm ( talk) 06:43, 26 June 2008 (UTC))
The Wynn hotel article claims that the hotel has 5 stars in the Michelin Guide, without providing a link. The Michelin Guide article only mentions 3 stars. An anonymous committer said that the hotel guide used 5 stars while the restaurant used 3 stars. Can anyone update the Michelin Guide article or the Wynn article accordingly? Gnurkel ( talk) 15:14, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
It would be interesting to know the basis for hotel ratings as well as restaurant ratings. During a trip to France in 1987, I discovered that a hotel could go from one to two stars (or maybe from two to three) by having a bathroom in every room: many modest hotels "upgraded" their rooms by carving a corner off a small room to build a tiny bathroom—an improvement some guests would find dubious. (I think most Americans considered a private bath necessary, and some Europeans were less picky about plumbing.) On this trip, I used the Red and Green Michelin Guides, and I found the ratings clear and unambiguous. I don't still have these guides and am not planning any foreign trips in the immediate future. I haven't found comparable information on the Web recently. WP explains the criteria for restaurants, as well as stating that one Vegas hotel has five stars, but does give the criteria for one, two, three, four, or five stars for a hotel, or particulars for hotels that were not exceptional. This would be useful, particular for travelers planning a trip in advance. Some people need certain amenities (such as a private bath, a gym, or high-speed Internet access) and others consider them mere luxuries. Donfbreed ( talk) 08:03, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
The section begins with: "Because of their reputation, the Michelin Guides have been subject to scrutiny and criticism." I'm not sure one can assume that the guides are criticized "because of their reputation". Seems like an arbitrary conclusion to me. 71.174.192.79 ( talk) 02:08, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
The article says the cover was blue before 1931 --- right next to a picture of a red one from 1929. I also did a Google image search and found the first one, from 1900, which was red. Where does this blue cover stuff come in? Orlando098 ( talk) 07:10, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I propose to delete the section "Allegations of lax inspection standards" from the part "Controversy". The writer of the book is an ex-employee with a clear grudge (= POV) against his former employer. The big part here gives clearly undue weight to the story. It should be removed or significantly reduced. Night of the Big Wind talk 16:31, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
i don't have the full numbers, but there's some recent guides which are not covered here, chicago now has only one 3-star restaurant, france 25 instead of 26 (which makes japan the one with most 3-stars!!!!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.30.251.6 ( talk) 12:28, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
This article seems to indicate that Michelin stars are awarded to restaurants, not to individuals. Anyone familiar with the many cooking reality shows (Hell's Kitchen, Masterchef, Kitchen Nightmares, etc.) has heard of chefs "having" or losing Michelin stars. Presumably they were simply the head chef at a restaurant that had been awarded Michelin stars? Recently on Masterchef, celebrity chefs were described as having 20+ Michelin stars, and the article on Gordon Ramsay apparently once stated that "Ramsay currently ranks 3rd in the world in terms of Michelin Stars behind Joël Robuchon and Alain Ducasse". Since a restaurant can only have three stars, and it's unlikely that anyone is the head chef at 6 or more restaurants, these people are presumably counting all of the Michelin stars awarded to restaurants that they own?
Properly or improperly, people are clearly being described in popular culture as having Michelin stars for running and/or owning restaurants with Michelin stars (assuming that Michelin does not award stars to individuals). It definitely seems like there should be a section about this phenomenon in the article, or a new article. A list of "holders" of the most Michelin stars may also be appropriate. DOSGuy ( talk) 20:55, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Why is a tire company rating food? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.174.73.240 ( talk) 10:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
That was myself not logged-in who re-added the update about the chef who commited suicide. That item was part of the article for a very long time. Also, see "further reading"-"life and death of a perfectionist chef". I agree with what you say that Michelin was not really involved, but since they are still writing books about it ten years later, it is part of the Guide's story in my opinion and I was surprized to see the information missing-that's why I added it. Housewifehader ( talk) 16:13, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Is it a good idea to publish the follwing section in the article about the Michelin Guide
“ |
When celebrated 3-star chef Bernard Loiseau, committed suicide, much was made of a rumor that Loiseau was about to be downgraded by the guide. Ten years later, in 2013, the Michelin Guide stands by the original claim that they had nothing to do with the death, and they point-out that;"Le Relais Bernard Loiseau still has its three stars" [1] |
” |
At the time, Michelin denied the rumors that it had threatened Loiseau, and still denies it today.
A request for advice is send to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink. The Banner talk 20:30, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
But as far as "being involved" in the "story"/"controversy"--This is part of Michelin's history and they have made numerous public statements, such as, "They tried to call us murderers.", and they participated in investigating the allegations. I don't care how it is worded, most readers can decide for themselves when they see they word, "suicide"--what that means is that someone took their own life. Why hide this info.?
Housewifehader (
talk)
19:58, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
In the section "Allegations of lax inspection standards and bias", there are conflicting claims that Rémy was fired in 2004 and 2003. Which was it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.164.10.19 ( talk) 09:50, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
I have severe doubts about the section "Inflated or mismatching expectations from awarded restaurants". In my opinion, this section is about facts that have little of nothing to do with the Michelin Guide itself. You can not blame the Guide for wrong expectations of the guest of starred restaurants. It is hopelessly frustrating for the restaurants involved but the problem is entirely with the guests, not with the Guide.
So I propose removal of that section. The Banner talk 02:35, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
There aren't just an isolated few, there are loads: http://www.businessinsider.com/french-chef-jerome-brochot-gave-up-michelin-star-because-he-cant-afford-it-2017-12 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42872201 https://www.eater.com/2017/9/21/16345242/chefs-give-back-michelin-stars Can someone add those? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:7D0:8310:5B80:DACB:8AFF:FEA7:FCDD ( talk) 15:40, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Anyone have the ability to update with new information in regards to this other Michelin mention type, called the Michelin Plate, and was introduced in 2018 to mention places that the auditors and inspectors found quality food at low prices, lower than Bib Gourmand? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:A600:27:94A6:3726:E82F:C6D1 ( talk) 20:58, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
In the history section, the first time restaurants are mentioned, it mentions changes "…notably listing restaurants by specific categories." But it never mentions when they began listing restaurants. At the start, it says the guide mentioned "maps, tire repair and replacement instructions, car mechanics listings, hotels, and petrol stations." Should that initial list include restaurants? Or did they start including restaurants later? — MiguelMunoz ( talk) 23:01, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
Both "tyre" and "tire" are used in the article, and there have recently been two edits reverted regarding changing one of the instances (without the others). My understanding is that it's not a straight WP:ENGVAR issue – there is a time period issue as well. All four instances of "tire" are in Michelin Guide#History, while the two instances of "tyre" are in the lead and Michelin Guide#Allegations of leniency with stars for Japanese cuisine. Should some of these spellings be changed? —[ AlanM1 ( talk)]— 22:24, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
All instances should be "tire". I just tried to change one instance (it's the only one I saw at the time).
"Tyre" is NOT the correct spelling of the word. It's "tire". Jimv1983 ( talk) 17:52, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
The Michelin Guide debuted a Green Star distinction for sustainable gastronomy. Currently only restaurants in Scandinavia and California have been awarded Green Stars but that is because they haven't reviewed any other location. Can we make a section about that? ( Hello23223 ( talk) 20:29, 16 November 2020 (UTC))
{{
Michelinstar}}
to go with it. 21 restaurants in Spain have now been awarded the Green Star for sustainability according to
this.
Toddst1 (
talk)
16:28, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
{{
Michelin green star}}
created and used in first article.
Toddst1 (
talk)
21:46, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
Certainly in the begin time of this article, the base of it were the actual paper books. But I am now confused about that principle. Do they bring out books about new areas, like Turkey or Toronto, or is it far more website driven? The Banner talk 01:58, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
Would Category:Bib Gourmand restaurants be appropriate? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 02:33, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 January 2024 and 3 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): LunarWhisperer, Lynnllll ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Lynnllll ( talk) 19:10, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
@ The Banner: Greetings! I'm not sure I entirely understand your reason for this removal, which was given in the edit summary as "this is a problem for the restaurants and its owners." Yes, these certainly are problems for restaurants, and they blame the Michelin judges for creating them. In some cases this is why chefs don't compete for Michelin stars, are unhappy when they are awarded, or don't want the Michelin guide to come to their city. It seems to me like a notable critique. -- Beland ( talk) 20:15, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
Recent objections have focused on the elaborate, multicourse menus that draw Michelin stars. They have historically relied on long hours of low-paid (sometimes unpaid) labor, raising questions about the human cost of fine dining. René Redzepi, the chef of Noma, in Copenhagen, decided to close the restaurant soon after it finally won its third star, citing the unsustainability of the business model.
But most chefs said the opportunity Michelin offers for a steady supply of well-heeled diners, eager sous-chefs and endless publicity trumps any other concerns. And many say that having Michelin stars to strive for simply makes restaurants better.
(outdent)
TheBanner, I don't feel like you're quite grasping this. I agree that it's not entirely Michelin's fault, but they are not a neutral, impassive player in this industry problem.
The chefs in these sources are telling us that the idea of fine dining that Michelin promotes is not something that works in practice, regardless of your business acumen. There are only so many people in the world who can spend $500 or $1000 per person for dinner, and even at those eye-watering prices, there's a decent chance that someone is being unfairly exploited to make it happen. There is a limit to how high they can raise their prices. If every person were fairly paid, then that $1000-per-person meal might cost $1500 per person, and the lack of people who are willing to pay that price would result in the restaurant closing.
The chefs are telling that this exploitation happens at Michelin-favored restaurants because of Michelin's preferred style. Michelin is not directly saying that they want people to be exploited, but they are saying that they want their dinners to require many hours of skilled labor and their table service to require a substantial fraction of an employee's time. If Michelin happened to prefer dishes that could be prepared with low labor costs, and if they happened to prefer a service style that did not require so much hands-on effort from the staff, then Michelin restaurants would not have so much exploited staff. But they don't: they happen to prefer dishes that require someone to hand-mince apples into perfectly even 2mm cubes, measuring as they go, times 20 other meticulously prepared ingredients, so they can all be cooked together into something that the Michelin reviewer will eat three bites of, and all the other diners wonder if that three-bite dish was actually worth the $39 charged for it (plus sales tax and tip if you're in the US). The sources say that Michelin is only part of the problem, but they are part of the problem. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 03:44, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
The customers expect a parade of appetizers when the gastronomic menu starts, in a setting that, according to them, also deserves one star. Take a shrimp croquette. People expect a starred chef to give his own interpretation of that dish. I just want to make a really good shrimp croquette