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Ummm, there was a discrepancy between his age at the top and at the bottom of the page. I've fixed it up based on a quick google, but can someone confirm? Psychobabble 04:48, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
It mus be 1939 because if he had turned 70 in 2005 he would have had to retire.
Fat Red
23:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Question, this article [3] reckon's that his birthday is on Feb 2 and that's why he's retiring, because of his age, but none of the articles make note of this. Actually another one [4] (from the same publisher, Fairfax, so could also draw upon the same flawed source?) seems to imply that as well. Actually here's one [5] from the Australian (owned by News Limited) which also implies that his birthday is Feb 2. Hmm this one [6] from the ABC seems to imply that is birthday is somewhere between 9th March and 16th (5 weeks from 2 Feb). But since 18th is 6 weeks (and 2 days) away, is ABC also wrong? Actually re-reading that Canberra times one, it doesn't actually say when his birthday is, it just says a few weeks from Jan 31. Aaaaaaagggggggggggghhhhhhhh. Someone ask him what his birthday is! Also, his reason for retirement (retirement or resignation, depending on when his birthday is) needs to be updated. I'm keeping it as it is right now because it's too ambiguous. Serrin ( talk) 09:33, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Robert, a good article. Two points. First, I don't think the word paedophilia was used in relation to the allegations against Kirby. The alleged rentboys were teenagers, not children (also I am pained to see the American spelling pedophilia). Second, I don't recall Heffernan being formally censured by the Senate. Do you have a reference for that? Dr Adam Carr
The discussion of Heffernan's allegations is good, but I wonder if the meat of it shouldn't be at Bill Heffernan rather than here? Obviously this page needs to make mention of it, but IMHO the fact that Heffernan attempted to destroy Kirby on the strength of forged evidence and unreliable witnesses says more about Heffernan than it does about Kirby.
I'll confess to some bias here: many of Kirby's detractors, Heffernan among them, seem to be working on the principle that "if you throw enough mud, some of it's bound to stick". IMHO, this sort of strategy is best countered by associating the mud with the thrower than with the target, even after it's been debunked. -- Calair 23:47, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Richardcavell 09:05, 19 August 2005 (UTC) - I think it's sad that Kirby J has to put up with this crap from Heffernan, but it's definitely one of the most newsworthy things that has happened to him as far as the mainstream media is concerned. What's more important from a legal perspective is his unusual judgments. I've added a brief amount about that; see what you guys think.
I'm a little uncomfortable with wording like "He is also renowned for the depth of research into past cases that goes into his judgments" - it's a bit on the subjective side. Something concrete would be good here, e.g. "In Barnacle and Sawnoff vs. City of Tooraloo, Kirby's judgement drew on thirteen past cases going back seventy-two years" or "Legal historian Bunyip Bluegum described Kirby as 'famed for the depth of his research'".
Richardcavell 10:46, 22 August 2005 (UTC) - Calair, I don't have any jurimetrics to support my statement. I'm sure there'll be plenty of opinion out there to support the idea that Kirby J is a maverick, or too left-wing/activist.
Kirby publicly supported the "no" case in a prominent role with Australians for Constitutional Monarchy in the 1999 Republican referendum - see republicanism in Australia for more information - a position perhaps superficially at odds with his "progressive" views on many other issues. Superficially at odds, but...? — MikeX (talk) 09:49, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)
Note that in court, you call them high court justices, but outside of court, they are judges. User:Enochlau 05:19, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
I think the article already documents Kirby's activist stance, and it certainly documents his frequent-dissenter status in the court, so I'm not clear on why those were tagged as needing cites. OTOH, I agree that the other two bits Ashmoo tagged could do with cites - I remember several of Kirby's critics suggesting that in his self-outing he'd effectively admitted to breaking the law, and that this made him unfit to be a judge, but my memory isn't a valid cite. Therefore restored half the tags and left the others. -- Calair 02:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Does 'judicial activism' have an official definition? My perception was that it is a slighty derogatory term used to characterise rulings the speaker disagrees with? I added the tag because I thought it would be good to add a bit on context to the characterisation as 'activist'. Does he self-describe as activist? Commonly described as such in legal journals? etc. Ashmoo 03:50, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I removed material both on Kirby's being criticised for having had a gay relationship while male-male sex was illegal and on the widespread 'who cares?' response - while I recall both of those things happening at the time, they've been sitting there with citeneeded tags for too long. Without those, I'm not sure whether the article should be pointing out the date issue; while the individual facts are verifiable, the combination comes across as a fairly loaded statement that could be considered OR. (Not entirely solid OR either, since AFAIK the Who's Who entry said 'partner', not 'sexual relationship'.) I've left it in for now, but won't object if somebody feels like removing it. --
Calair
07:38, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 07:22, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:Justice Kirby.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 14:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Which version of this image looks better on the infobox?
The_Honourable Justice Michael Donald Kirby AC OMG, BA, LLM (Hons) BEc |
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Preceded by | Sir William Deane |
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Nationality | Australian |
Domestic partner | Johan van Vloten |
The_Honourable Justice Michael Donald Kirby AC OMG, BA, LLM (Hons) BEc |
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Preceded by | Sir William Deane |
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Nationality | Australian |
Domestic partner | Johan van Vloten |
===Poll===--
Rofish (
talk)
22:19, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
please vote Left or Right (but don't be bound by this false dilemma).
Now that he's retired from the judiciary, is it correct to continue to refer to him as "Judge" or "Justice" Kirby? He keeps The Hon, but otherwise I thought he'd be plain Mr Michael Kirby now. No? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 08:18, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to restore the passage about Kirby's appointment to the High Court being in hope that it would "shut him up" about the monarchy. It is a significant point, by a good researcher from a good source, Michael Lavarch. Lavarch, Gareth Evans and Paul Keating are around to contradict the report if it is wrong. -- Wikiain ( talk) 22:45, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
On 5 April user 58.160.137.46 changed the portrait caption from "Justice" to "Puisne Justice", giving the reason as "consistency". The reason was good, in that WP identifies all justices of the High Court of Australia as either "Chief Justice" or "Puisne Justice". Siegfried Nugent reverted this with the comment "no thanks". I agree in principle with Siegfried: in Australian legal discourse the qualifier "puisne" is almost never used. In the Commonwealth Constitution, the Judiciary Act 1903 and the High Court of Australia Act 1979, the distinction is only between "Chief Justice" and other "Justices", and "Chief Justice" and "Justice" are the titles that they go by. My preference is for achieving consistency by removing "puisne" from all articles on members of the High Court. Tabled for discussion. -- Wikiain ( talk) 01:35, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
As the HCA bio indicates, his appointment to the industrial court was a judicial appointment.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 08:12, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
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Kirby's partner became an Ankali in NSW and …
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Michael Kirby (judge) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is written in Australian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, program, labour (but Labor Party)) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Ummm, there was a discrepancy between his age at the top and at the bottom of the page. I've fixed it up based on a quick google, but can someone confirm? Psychobabble 04:48, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
It mus be 1939 because if he had turned 70 in 2005 he would have had to retire.
Fat Red
23:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Question, this article [3] reckon's that his birthday is on Feb 2 and that's why he's retiring, because of his age, but none of the articles make note of this. Actually another one [4] (from the same publisher, Fairfax, so could also draw upon the same flawed source?) seems to imply that as well. Actually here's one [5] from the Australian (owned by News Limited) which also implies that his birthday is Feb 2. Hmm this one [6] from the ABC seems to imply that is birthday is somewhere between 9th March and 16th (5 weeks from 2 Feb). But since 18th is 6 weeks (and 2 days) away, is ABC also wrong? Actually re-reading that Canberra times one, it doesn't actually say when his birthday is, it just says a few weeks from Jan 31. Aaaaaaagggggggggggghhhhhhhh. Someone ask him what his birthday is! Also, his reason for retirement (retirement or resignation, depending on when his birthday is) needs to be updated. I'm keeping it as it is right now because it's too ambiguous. Serrin ( talk) 09:33, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Robert, a good article. Two points. First, I don't think the word paedophilia was used in relation to the allegations against Kirby. The alleged rentboys were teenagers, not children (also I am pained to see the American spelling pedophilia). Second, I don't recall Heffernan being formally censured by the Senate. Do you have a reference for that? Dr Adam Carr
The discussion of Heffernan's allegations is good, but I wonder if the meat of it shouldn't be at Bill Heffernan rather than here? Obviously this page needs to make mention of it, but IMHO the fact that Heffernan attempted to destroy Kirby on the strength of forged evidence and unreliable witnesses says more about Heffernan than it does about Kirby.
I'll confess to some bias here: many of Kirby's detractors, Heffernan among them, seem to be working on the principle that "if you throw enough mud, some of it's bound to stick". IMHO, this sort of strategy is best countered by associating the mud with the thrower than with the target, even after it's been debunked. -- Calair 23:47, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Richardcavell 09:05, 19 August 2005 (UTC) - I think it's sad that Kirby J has to put up with this crap from Heffernan, but it's definitely one of the most newsworthy things that has happened to him as far as the mainstream media is concerned. What's more important from a legal perspective is his unusual judgments. I've added a brief amount about that; see what you guys think.
I'm a little uncomfortable with wording like "He is also renowned for the depth of research into past cases that goes into his judgments" - it's a bit on the subjective side. Something concrete would be good here, e.g. "In Barnacle and Sawnoff vs. City of Tooraloo, Kirby's judgement drew on thirteen past cases going back seventy-two years" or "Legal historian Bunyip Bluegum described Kirby as 'famed for the depth of his research'".
Richardcavell 10:46, 22 August 2005 (UTC) - Calair, I don't have any jurimetrics to support my statement. I'm sure there'll be plenty of opinion out there to support the idea that Kirby J is a maverick, or too left-wing/activist.
Kirby publicly supported the "no" case in a prominent role with Australians for Constitutional Monarchy in the 1999 Republican referendum - see republicanism in Australia for more information - a position perhaps superficially at odds with his "progressive" views on many other issues. Superficially at odds, but...? — MikeX (talk) 09:49, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)
Note that in court, you call them high court justices, but outside of court, they are judges. User:Enochlau 05:19, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
I think the article already documents Kirby's activist stance, and it certainly documents his frequent-dissenter status in the court, so I'm not clear on why those were tagged as needing cites. OTOH, I agree that the other two bits Ashmoo tagged could do with cites - I remember several of Kirby's critics suggesting that in his self-outing he'd effectively admitted to breaking the law, and that this made him unfit to be a judge, but my memory isn't a valid cite. Therefore restored half the tags and left the others. -- Calair 02:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Does 'judicial activism' have an official definition? My perception was that it is a slighty derogatory term used to characterise rulings the speaker disagrees with? I added the tag because I thought it would be good to add a bit on context to the characterisation as 'activist'. Does he self-describe as activist? Commonly described as such in legal journals? etc. Ashmoo 03:50, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I removed material both on Kirby's being criticised for having had a gay relationship while male-male sex was illegal and on the widespread 'who cares?' response - while I recall both of those things happening at the time, they've been sitting there with citeneeded tags for too long. Without those, I'm not sure whether the article should be pointing out the date issue; while the individual facts are verifiable, the combination comes across as a fairly loaded statement that could be considered OR. (Not entirely solid OR either, since AFAIK the Who's Who entry said 'partner', not 'sexual relationship'.) I've left it in for now, but won't object if somebody feels like removing it. --
Calair
07:38, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 07:22, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:Justice Kirby.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 14:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Which version of this image looks better on the infobox?
The_Honourable Justice Michael Donald Kirby AC OMG, BA, LLM (Hons) BEc |
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Preceded by | Sir William Deane |
---|---|
|
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Nationality | Australian |
Domestic partner | Johan van Vloten |
The_Honourable Justice Michael Donald Kirby AC OMG, BA, LLM (Hons) BEc |
|
|
|
|
|
Preceded by | Sir William Deane |
---|---|
|
|
Nationality | Australian |
Domestic partner | Johan van Vloten |
===Poll===--
Rofish (
talk)
22:19, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
please vote Left or Right (but don't be bound by this false dilemma).
Now that he's retired from the judiciary, is it correct to continue to refer to him as "Judge" or "Justice" Kirby? He keeps The Hon, but otherwise I thought he'd be plain Mr Michael Kirby now. No? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 08:18, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to restore the passage about Kirby's appointment to the High Court being in hope that it would "shut him up" about the monarchy. It is a significant point, by a good researcher from a good source, Michael Lavarch. Lavarch, Gareth Evans and Paul Keating are around to contradict the report if it is wrong. -- Wikiain ( talk) 22:45, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
On 5 April user 58.160.137.46 changed the portrait caption from "Justice" to "Puisne Justice", giving the reason as "consistency". The reason was good, in that WP identifies all justices of the High Court of Australia as either "Chief Justice" or "Puisne Justice". Siegfried Nugent reverted this with the comment "no thanks". I agree in principle with Siegfried: in Australian legal discourse the qualifier "puisne" is almost never used. In the Commonwealth Constitution, the Judiciary Act 1903 and the High Court of Australia Act 1979, the distinction is only between "Chief Justice" and other "Justices", and "Chief Justice" and "Justice" are the titles that they go by. My preference is for achieving consistency by removing "puisne" from all articles on members of the High Court. Tabled for discussion. -- Wikiain ( talk) 01:35, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
As the HCA bio indicates, his appointment to the industrial court was a judicial appointment.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 08:12, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
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Kirby's partner became an Ankali in NSW and …
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