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I wrote a mini-biography of Maryam Rajavi, and even put pictures (from her website) that to prove the facts.
For example, I wrote about her address to a 15,000 Iranians in Dortmund (Germany) and put a picture of that as well as another gathering which she spoke to in person of 25,000 Iranians in Earl's Court, in London (United Kingdom). These events of course received much press coverage both in German and British dailies. There is however someone who keeps vandalising the text, changing facts and even writing unsubstantiated lies. The person, whom I suspect of being an agent of the Iranian regime, also vandalises the page about the People's Mojahedin Organisation of Iran (PMOI), again deleting factual texts and writing lies. It does not surprise me that agents on the payroll of the Iranian Intelligence Ministry (VEVAK) abroad try to white-wash their own crimes and pretend that the Iranian opposition are the "criminal", since I know that VEVAK are actively pursuing a campaign to demonize the Iranian opposition in the West. (If you read the talk section and edit sections of the Maryam Rajavi page and the Mojahedin-e Khalq page you will undoubtedly see that the guy continuously calls me and my friend "Terrorists" without even the slightest idea of who I am or who he is) What does however disappoint me is Wikipedia's inability to combat such abuse. Despite the service being an extremely valuable one, Wikipedia seems unable to control vandalism on its encyclopaedia.
One other fact that I thought would be useful for everyone to know, is that the Iranian regime has to date executed over 120,000 political prisoners of the PMOI and have acknowledged this themselves. A partial list of the names and particulars of those executed can be found at www.iranterror.com . Ayatollah Montazeri, Khomeini’s right hand man wrote in his memoirs a few years ago (as published in the Sunday Times) that the regime executed over 30,000 PMOI members in a matter of a few weeks in 1988. Khomeini's henchmen, many of whom today live abroad and try to demonize the Iranian opposition, also tortured over half a million PMOI supporters inside Iran's prisons. Yet, when I added the 120,000 figure in the page about the Mojahedin, the regime's guy removed it, and again started to say that such a thing was a lie. This is how VEVAK tries to demonize the Iranian opposition.
The other problem is that this guy is continuously offensive and uses offending language, as one would expect from agents who are there to defend a corrupt dictatorship.-- RezaKia 16:51, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
There is a photo of Massoumeh which I am again willing to scan. Iranian press reported her death as "a great victory for the Islamic republic" because of who she was. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:16 (UTC)
Two diametral versions.
Both sides, please explain. mikka (t) 29 June 2005 01:33 (UTC)
First and foremost, the name of this organisation is People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran (PMOI). This name appears on the top of all their statements issued and is even written at the top of the their website at www.mojahedin.org . The reality that the PMOI was the principal opposition movement was noted in seven consequtive reports on the organization by the U.S. State Department. The U.S. Library of Congress also wrote the same thing about the group in a 1988 report on Iran. All these reports are still available on both the US State Dept. website and the US LOC website. The term MKO is solely used by the Iranian regime simply because it sounds "harsher" to Western ears. This is also noted in the US State Dept reports, though not in the Library of Congress record.-- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:23 (UTC)
Anonym wrote:
Maryam Rajavi became a prominent figure in the group before the marriage. The marriage itself was more ceremonial than anything else. I might be wrong about this, but as I undstood it, the marriage made Maryam Rajavi an equal to Massoud Rajavi, thus the PMOI were able to fight against misogyny by having a woman as the leader. The PMOI said at the time that the Khomeini regime suppressed women, thus the best fighters against the regime "ideologically" were women. Again I may be wrong about this but to the best of my knowledge no other Islamic group is led by a woman. It is also interesting to note that in following years the PMOI's entire leadership council became comprised of women. The Iranian regime, as part of its demonizing campaign of course said that this was done to gain the support of Western politicians, but as I am sure you can imagine, it would be follhearted to give the entire command of an organization to other individuals solely to gain a good image in the West. No group would do such a thing. The realilty is that the PMOI genuinly believed that to fight against Khomenei you had to fight against misogyny. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:32 (UTC)
the numbers require confirmation. mikka (t) 29 June 2005 01:50 (UTC)
The number of Iranians attending the Dortmund gathering was also confirmed in an article by the German news service DPA at the time and the Iranian oppostion movement advertised this greatly. I put the photos to back up the case about the figures.
Regarding the "20,000 Iranians and French citizens", I myself did not write that part of the page, though my friends were able to give me the photos of the gathering. I did however see a report on the event on the site
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2514 which confirms the figure. --
RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:36 (UTC)
The rest of anon's replacement text is irrelevant to the person in question and must be discussed in the article about the party. mikka (t) 29 June 2005 01:54 (UTC)
Who? mikka (t) 30 June 2005 23:06 (UTC)
The Iranian opposition has held a number of concerts/political support gatherings in many cities across the world. Famous foreign singers who have performed for them include Chris de Burgh and Gypsy Kings but I think the majority of the performers, filmmakers, artists, painters, sculptors, poets and writers are actually Iranian ones. For example Iran's number one violinist has been supporting them for many years now. Also Marzieh, who in her time, was Iran's most famous singer actually joined the group a number of years ago. -- RezaKia 1 July 2005 00:00 (UTC)
Since the page was a biography about Maryam Rajavi, I did not go so far as writing each of the names of the personalities who have supported the PMOI. I will however at the request of Mikkalai spend some time in writing all the names which I can research in printed publications and on the internet and add them to the article as you wish. I do request however that somebody warn the "Anonymous" person of accusing me of being a member of the Mojahedin. Personal attacks should not be tolerated in Wikipedia. Both me and Hanif have made clear in previous sections of the Edit and Talk pages of the Mojahedin and Maryam Rajavi pages that we were friends, so how can this guy claim that "we are the same"!!! --
RezaKia 2 July 2005 19:51 (UTC)
To Mikka and other general readers, I would point out that I only edit articles which I am knowledgable about, and I do know a thing or to about the PMOI. I would point out that the person that is making the accusations doesn't even have a Wikipedia name and just comes in with whatever IP his ISP provides each time. He too ONLY edits articles about the PMOI and tries to make them negative in any shape or form. I suggest that he has a political agenda and his IP should be banned for making personal remarks against others. If people read the Talk sections of Mojahedin and Maryam Rajavi pages they will see that he also swears at anyone who writes factually correct articles about the Mojahedin, of course, while hiding his true identity by not even having a Wikipedia username. -- RezaKia 3 July 2005 00:27 (UTC)
To Mikka and other general readers, I hope that by reading my comments posted a little higher up the page you have enough information about me. If you want more, please state and I will be happy to give you. I will also add the completed list of artists, poets, sculptors, writers once I complete it since I am doing other work in my spare time as well. Please note that I refuse to answer questions by both agents of the Iranian regime as well as people who don't even introduce themselves on Wikipedia, choosing instead to make anonymous posts. The person who is accusing me of being the same person as Hanif (ie "identity fraud") does not even have a Wikipedia ID!!! I wish everyone a happy 4th of July holiday, and hope that other constructive posts will be added by unbiased people so that we can further improve this article. I am also preparing a section which would have highlights of Maryam Rajavi's recent activities. (I suspect most of it is already on her own site as well, but since this is an independent encylcopedia I think we should put a condensed "non-advertising" version in her biography here as well). -- RezaKia 3 July 2005 17:48 (UTC)
To Mikka and other admins, This is a partial list which I wrote in my free time: Chris de Burgh, The Gipsy Kings, Jean Ferrar (Famous French singer), Marzieh (Iran's most famous female singer), Greek diva Maria Farantouri, Abbé Pierre (Winner of the award in France as the most famous social figure in the country), Mme Danielle Mitterrand (Former French First Lady), Ross Poppel (Conductor of the London Philharmonic Orchestra), Yehudi Menuhin (UK, later became a Lord), Reza Olia, William Nygaard (Norwegian publisher), Fouzieh Mehran (distinguished Egyptian writer), Nina Karin Monsen (Norwegian philosopher and author).
Now I want to know something. How can this guy say that he is unbiased? For starters he says "it is 11 days since mikka asked for some names, and RezaKia promised to provide them but now we can see that he seems to have simply disappeared. This just shows that I was right that RezaKia was the same pereson as Hanifjazayer and he was a member of the MKO". Considering that it is the holiday season (and even if it wasn't), how can this guy without being biased state that since it had been 11 days that I didn't write some names, that would automatically make me "the same person as Hanifjazayer" and "a member of the MKO"?!!! (He obviously has suspect motives for saying this. If anything a member of the PMOI would be able to produce it faster!)
As an Iranian, I know about the PMOI considerably, but no-one can expect me to remember the names of famous supporters off by heart, (even actual members of the Mojahedin wouldn't be able to that). I found these names of personalities on their personal websites where they state their support. Some of them are also mentioned on Maryam Rajavi's website. This is just a partial list, because if I wanted to put a whole list together it would take forever, but I hope Mikka that this is sufficient.
The other thing Mikka (and other admins), is that this guy (although I would say they are a group) doesn't even have a Wikipedia username since all he does is come along, vandalise articles for the Iranian regime's benefit, and then leaves. His motives are suspect and he clearly has an agenda. I have answered all questions asked by admins here. You will notice that I have written a lot here but he hasn't answered any of the questions.
Here's a though: Has this guy (or this group) actually even made one unbiased factual statement in this page (which he has been able to back up like I have done) or does he just make random accusations, edits the page without providing factual arguments, and uses abusive language? The reality is that the Iranian regime's Ministry of Intelligence and Security (VEVAK) is a vast sinister organisation. In the Middle East, it is second only to MOSSAD (Israeli intelligence). Its purpose is to destroy any opposition to the Ayatollahs. It has a two-pronged strategy; one is international terrorism such as assassination of dissidents; the other is a vast disinformation campaign it is running to demonize the Iranian opposition in the West. Did you know recently Human Rights Watch issued a report against the Mojahedin, based on telephone interviews with 12 Iranian intelligence operatives in Europe? The National Council of Resistance of Iran recently announced on its website that over 500 parliamentarians around the world had condemned HRW for writing a biased report. For example in the report HRW announced as facts that the 12 people it had telephone-interviewed had physical torture scars on their bodies. But how can it verify that when it only spoke to them on the phone and even admitted to never having seen the 12 individuals. But it goes to show how far VEVAK has gone in its campaign to demonize the Iranian opposition. I give you one more example, then I have to go, VEVAK websites such as Iran-Interlink and Iran Didban etc... have put a video of a meeting between Iranian Resistance leader Massoud Rajavi and Saddam Hussein, which VEVAK claims to have discovered in a secret location after the US-led war in Iraq. The reality is the complete opposite. If anyone sees the video they will notice that at the top left there is an insignia. This is the insignia of the Iranian Resistance's own satellite TV channel. You ask why? Simple. Because this was not a secret video discovered in Saddam's labs, rather it was a video of the ceasefire agreement, that Massoud Rajavi went to sign with Saddam to end the Iran-Iraq war, which was broadcast by the Iranian Resistance themselves. Khomeini wanted to continue the Iran-Iraq war which cost a million lives, though Rajavi wanted to end it to stop so many lives from being killed. So again you can see how VEVAK is taking a public video, putting false subtitles underneath it, and then using it to demonize the Iranian opposition in the West. For more information I refer you to www.iranterror.com that explains some of VEVAK's most sinister tactics.-- RezaKia 09:07, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I was following up with several subjects. Tell you frankly I am half Iranian, half English (I like both parts of me!). As a spectator to this unbelievable, and un-necessary verbal "communication" I a not a bit convinced on you too Mr.mikka. I think you are strangely over reacting on elements which are actually extracts of news reports and Internet sites. Some for your amusement is verified in the Iranian Intelligence ministry's internet sites as well. So, you know what? A big question comes up over the credibility of this site, if it is being speculated -or edited - or moderated by volunteers, and not professionals. At least I did not have this image about Wikipedia. I must admit that until now it had been one of my major references. I Hope I am wrong. But I prefer to rely on a biased supervisor. On the other hand, this whole cynical argument, would naturally provoke both parties to use language not fit for an encyclopedia!. So I do disagree with questioning, and undermining all info put by someone in this place. I think it is like as if one feels another sort of violation of freedom of speech! Please not here, at least let every one speak and judge. I do understand as well the difference between a forum and an encyclopedia, but this scene was too much! -- setareh
The wikipedia is edited by volunteers. The credibility depends on people accepting the WP:NPOV mechanism which means accepting that points of view which are stated by "credible" personalities or organisations, and preferably traceable to online sources are considered "facts" in the sense that "person X stated Y" is a fact, even if you may feel that Y is clearly false. Anyway, please see WP:NPOV. i put in the cleanup tag because clearly this page needs a lot of work - preferably between people who know the subject, i.e. Maryam Rajavi. Boud 01:21, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
did you even read any of my edits before reverting them and making those funny comments, this whole page was prior to when i edited it a propaganda page, very likely made by yourself. Next time you revert i will have to report you for spreading propaganda in Wikipedia. -- Darkred 03:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Dear user:jayjg, you said: "if she's elected how can she be "self-proclaimed"? And what makes the group "terrorist"? And why would you remove all that information, including the link to her site?"
Like i meant to say above, perhaps you should consider reading the new article before reverting and then asking all those questions. If you read it your questions would be answered. However without even questioning you have also deleted my added source(new york times) which is considered a reliable source. Please revert the article back. Thank you for your cooperation.-- Darkred 09:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Now to your questions. you said: "if she's elected how can she be "self-proclaimed?" Like it said in my edits and on the new york times, the ones that elected her is no other than her own organization the MKO, they have many names for themselfs to fool iranians into joining them, one of their names is: National Council of Resistance of Iran. Thus she is self-proclaimed. Your other question: And what makes the group "terrorist" Again like it said in the source, her organization the MKO have been on the USA list of terrorist gropus in years. just search the net. In the future please consider reading the article fully before questioning your own "missed lines". I didn't have to explain everything step by step, everything was clearly provided on my edit, but i did it anyway. Thank you for your understanding in advance. -- Darkred 11:23, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
This whole biography is copied almost 1:1 from the public information website of the National Council of resistance of Iran ( http://www.ncr-iran.org/content/view/12/26/). While this says nothing about the veracity of the facts in this article it casts doubt on the neutrality of the author.
I don't know whether this has been noted already in this discussion (since the website already has the neutrality sign) and I did not have the time to read the whole discussion, but I thought it should be noted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.154.149.18 ( talk • contribs)
I have reverted them, I think it's best to add the citation tag so it can be investigated further as it is definately not nonsense -- - K a s h Talk | email 10:30, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
I have protected the page on the last additional edit. Subsequent to that it is only slow revert warring. As usual someone will hold this protection being on the wrong version. That is just fine by me. Please slug it out on the talk pages before any editing or unprotecting takes place. The editwarring is only about a sentence and a half or so, so I think it should be relatively straight foreward to clarify Refdoc ( talk) 13:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
The abbreviated name of the People's Mojahedin Organisation of Iran is PMOI. In farsi it is Mojahedin- e - Khalq which means People's Mojahedin ( Khalq means people in Farsi). So instead of PMOI, the word MEK is also used. But "MKO" is a term used by the regime in their materials. If BBC has used this term, it is quite unfortunate! Maryam Rajavi is president-elect of the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI). Some time people use Iranian resistance instead of NCRI but the former is OK. Tom davy ( talk) 20:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
You asked several questions. I tried to reply. But it seems that you already have an opinion despite your claims. I did not insist on using the word " Iranian resistance" but you keep expressing your views on that. I had simply pointed out that if you want to use the right words to call this group, they are called PMOI or MEK. The word MKO is used by the Iranian government and its supporters. Regards, Tom davy ( talk) 15:19, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Ther's too much embedded POV in this article. Phrasing like "Khomeini's reign of terror" and "the most capable and qualified woman in the movement" are not appropriate under Wikipedia's NPOV policy. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz ( talk) 18:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I am going to add a COI tag, as this page has been heavily edited by MKO members/ WP:SPAs. The page should be cleaned up, and semi-protected in order to prevent such disruption in the future Kurdo777 ( talk) 17:10, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi Hullaballoo Wolfowitz. You have reverted my edit because you have noted that there is a BLP issue. Can you please clarify? Which part is the BLP issue you are addressing? The only thing I can think of is the section on her role in Saddam Hussein's Anfal campaign. However this is properly referenced in the New York Times article cited and the MEK (under her leadership) support for Saddam Hussein has been widely documented (see MEK page). Please clarify your concern so that I can address it.
Thanks
Poyani ( talk) 23:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
NCRI has support primarily amongst overseas Iranians. Agreed. Why add "and numerous American political officials such as former New York City Mayor and Presidential Contender Rudy Giuliani"? The support of a few American politicians is not sufficiently notable to warrant mentioning in the lede. Royalcourtier ( talk) 04:40, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
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The Iraqi Judiciary, the source of the alleged arrest warrants added to the WP page, has major flaws and fails according to Amnesty International to uphold international standards. Amnesty International's country overview on Iraq currently states:
“… Government authorities held thousands of detainees without trial; torture and other ill-treatment of detainees remained rife. Many trials did not meet international standards of fairness.” [1] Thus, undoing the added Iraq section is merited according See WP:PublicFigure TheDreamBoat ( talk) 02:58, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
Adding "However, no members were convicted", which is not cited in the source is absolutly original research, hence should be removed. The wording is already neutral, it is stating facts. Any objections? Call for Wikipedia:Third opinion. Pahlevun ( talk) 14:33, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
About the Third Opinion request: The request for a 3O made in regard to this dispute has been removed (i.e. declined) due to the RFC pending, below, on these and/or related issues. No dispute resolution process will accept a request or case while other DR is pending. RFC's generally run for at least 30 days before closing unless withdrawn prior to that time without objection from other parties. If consensus is not reached in the RFC, then 3O or some other DR process can be requested. Regards, TransporterMan ( TALK) 06:06, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
I have removed information regarding Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. Neither the information provided or the source mention the subject of this article. There for it should not be included in this article. Detente 1 ( talk) 22:43, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
The most recent edit to this section violates the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons Avoid victimization section. The rewrite of the source amounts to participating in or prolonging the victimization, which WP editors should refrain from. The violation merits a removal of the paragraph, espeically as the source is clearly a hit piece in order to present the subject negatively. TheDreamBoat ( talk) 00:17, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
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What language[s] dose she speak? She speaks Dari but any others? She has lived in France for a long time can she speak French? Or what about other languages spoken in Iran such as Azeri? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.129.155 ( talk) 00:45, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
The file Maryam Rajavi at LFTAR gathering.jpg on Wikimedia Commons has been nominated for speedy deletion. View the deletion reason at the Commons file description page. Community Tech bot ( talk) 22:52, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
Hello, I am reverting this edit by Pahlevun because the information about the Maryam Rajavi trip to the UK is already in the article:
"On October 2011 Theresa May banned Maryam Rajavi from coming to Britain in a trip where she was to "explain how women are mistreated in Iran". The high court then sued Teresa May, with Lord Carlile of Berriew (the Government's former independent reviewer of counter-terrorism laws) saying that May's decision “could be viewed as appeasing the Mullahs”.[16][17] In 2014, Supreme Court of the United Kingdom dismissed an appeal from Lord Carlile of Berriew QC and others and upheld it to maintain the ban, which had originally being implemented in 1997. Members of the UK House of Lords argued that the Home Secretary was "violating Article 10 (freedom of expression) of the European Convention of Human Rights (the Convention)", saying that “Home Secretary’s reasons were legally irrelevant, because they depended on the potential reaction of a foreign state which did not share the values embodied in the Convention.”[18][19] Rajavi is not excluded from any other European country and engages regularly with parliamentarians in the European Parliament.[20]"
Kazemita1 you're saying that you're proposing this, but you're actually pushing your edit back into the article without getting consensus first. That's edit warring (again). Stefka Bulgaria ( talk) 10:37, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi! ^_^ , I think I have contributed to Wikipedia with something I found. A much new colored picture of her Here on Flickr , under This license . BUT I have tried to upload it unsuccessfully and it overwhelms, frustrates me. Can anybody help me? THANK YOU! I cherish you!. CoryGlee ( talk) 18:51, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
I have applied two page-level restrictions here; a. 1RR — one revert per editor per 24 hours; and b. consensus required — once a new addition or change to longstanding text are reverted, the edits must be shown to enjoy consensus before being reintroduced again. Please familiarize yourself with these restrictions before making further edits to the article. This notice is simply a courtesy; the formal notice is the edit-notice, which should be abundantly visible to everyone. Vanamonde ( Talk) 16:54, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
@ 173.52.73.120: In case you didn't read this:
Editors to this page: are restricted to making no more than one revert per twenty-four (24) hours (subject to exceptions below) must not reinstate any challenged (via reversion) edits without first obtaining consensus on the talk page of this article
I would highly advise you to revert your edits and try to reach WP:CONSENSUS. Also, please don't write false summaries, I didn't request anything from you [5]. Mind you, this is a discussion that has been ongoing for a long time here [6]. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 23:51, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
@ HistoryofIran: No worries, I have included a talk section and notified the WikiPedia supervisors of the issue. Please show why you are refuting the cited information to the terrorist activities and history of this BLP so that we can reach a conclusion on the basis of evidence rather than your meritless accusation of a "false summary". The information was cited. The articles clearly state she has terrorist links and affiliations still ongoing into the Trump admin. Thank you. 173.52.73.120 ( talk) 00:15, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
@ HistoryofIran: Ditto. 173.52.73.120 ( talk) 00:26, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
As I'm reading through this talk page, I'm noticing about 99% of it is filled with items that could easily violate Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines. The discussions here are for items relevant to the BLP and to be done in a good faith, positive manner. This page, too, requires editing so that substantive discussions about the actual BLP can be noticed. I am going to clean slate here so we can have the most relevant discussions completed. DeweyDecimalLansky ( talk) 23:01, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
Any one who will revert these pages again without explanation of each and every deleted piece will be blocked from editing. I don't care about your political bickering, and it is not be tolerated in wikipedia. Answer here for each deletion separately: you have to prove each statement to be false or has reasonable doubts and request confirmation from the author, for each dubious item separately. Allah akbar. mikka (t) 30 June 2005 22:43 (UTC)
Please provide a neutral term for phrases "mullah regime", etc., in the article, which IMO are used with the intention of offense. mikka (t) 1 July 2005 23:23 (UTC)
I suggest that the terms "clerical regime" to be used instead of "mullahs' regime" if the latter phrase is seen as biased. I have seen it used in news agency reports about leaders of the Iranian regime. -- RezaKia 2 July 2005 19:55 (UTC)
It is abundantly clear to me that this particular topic is highly controversial in some circles. I highly recommend that a neutral third party fully verify all facts before they be treated as such. Without citations and proof, what SHOULD be a factual representation is no more than a debate about politics in Southeast Asia.
Maryam Rajavi's Maiden Name is Maryam Qajar Azodanlu since she is a descended from a member of the Qajar dynasty.
sources : http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=686332003
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3789 http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2980279.stm
The article says "Rajavi has given lectures on the modern, democratic version of Islam"! So she is creating a modern Islam too? What I like to know is what her religious qualifications are? Ok, I know she has none; then what is her credibility? Ok, ok, I know she doe not have any! Then what is her authority and who gave her such authorities? Ok, ok, I know the answer to this one; it is Ayatollah Tony Blair! Kiumars
http://www.hillnews.com/news/040203/terrorist.aspx
I flagged this article as a copywrite violation. It's not a complete copy-and-paste from http://www.maryam-rajavi.com/content/view/34/59/, but you can tell it comes straight from that site. Dchall1 23:56, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
The dispute appears to be
My suggestion is that these are three simple matters which can be rapidly resolved in the ususal way, by providing links and sources. For what it is worth abbreviation MKO appears to be the one in use in the BBC [7] Refdoc ( talk) 14:03, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
This article is ridiculous. The lead has qualified statements like describing the subject as "the main opposition" to the Iranian regime, despite the fact that this is a VERY questionable statement and not backed by the source listed. The first half of the article is promotional material without sources and even the rest is extremely poorly written. I am tagging it. If you disagree discuss here. Poyani ( talk) 21:16, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
I have just removed the templates after some minor clean-up as it appears that the offending material has been removed. Furthermore, the existing content seems to be properly sourced. As for the COI, no specific accusation was made, so its template removal is appropriate unless a credible claim can be made. -- Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... ( talk) 18:25, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
How can Rajavi be president elect since 1993? A president elect is someone who is elected but not yet taken office. Royalcourtier ( talk) 04:42, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
The source "Who's Who's of Women in 2002" is a self-published source. Is there any other data on Rajavi's education credentials that we can reliably include? If not, there's no proof of her education. DeweyDecimalLansky ( talk) 02:49, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
I don't understand why iranians are so anxious to support the mko, it's not like if iran's mullha's leave power iran will suddenly turn fine under an mko regime, iran is split, it's always been split, nothing will solve iran's problems, iranians are a bunch of bazaris who only care for themselves and their pockets with the opportunistic acts, under any regime they will try and fill their pockets with as much cash as possible.
I hope vevak finally finishes the job by assassinating maryam rajavi, it's the least they can do, the mko has killed many iranians, it's funny, everyone says iran's media is bias and propaganda, how can we take the word of mko then? they have no bias? they would sell their own mothers to overthrow iran's government, no doubt.
I rather iranians made an org. where armed struggle or terrorism wasn't part of it, but peaceful protests and encouraging iranians to vote the most reformist mp's into power, rather than the last election encouraging iranians not to vote and they ended up with ahmadinejad, iranfocus.com is rajavi's propaganda machine, mko has had no good for iran or iranian's cause for a democratic iran, the sooner they understand this the better, personally i hate maryam rajavi and the mko, she had a hard life, tough, live with it, it gives her no right to take someone elses life for her troubles and ideas of a new iran which i can tell you many disagree with.
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I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Maryam Rajavi and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes. |
If I read this discussion properly, it seems to be about whether to include a mention of the MEK as a terrorist organization. If we look at the current countries which explicitly designate the MEK as a "terrorist organization", we see it's only Iraq and Iran recognize it as such. Note that the UN only describe it as a group that is involved in terrorist activities, not as a terrorist organization. Let's compare with other similar articles. Jose Maria Sison is the founder of the Communist Party of the Philippines which is currently recognized by the U.S., EU, and the Philippines as a "terrorist organization". This is worse than the MEK, which only has two countries designating it as terrorist, and both of which are involved (unlike the U.S. and EU). Yet there's no mention of the CPP designated as terrorist on the first lead paragraph of JMS. Instead, it used "person supporting terrorism" on the next paragraph. There is no need to point out that the CPP is designated as a terrorist org. Another, closer example is Leila Khaled. She is a member of Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. This case is even worse, because the PFLP is designated as a "terrorist organization" by five countries (U.S., Canada, Australia, Japan, EU), and she was involved in the hijacking of TWA Flight 840, which I think we could agree is a terrorist act. However, there's no mention of terrorism at all on her lead paragraphs. Instead, it mentions her involvement in the airplane hijacking. There is no need to point out that she and the PFLP are terrorists. So I think it's not necessary to include a mention of the MEK as a "terrorist group". Mentioning it would make the article less neutral, in my opinion. It's better to let the facts speak for themselves. pandakekok9 ( talk) 11:43, 20 January 2021 (UTC) |
@ DeweyDecimalLansky: You are making too many sudden changes to this article changing its narrative completely with cherry picked sources. For this reason I will rollback the bulk of your edits. Please discuss your edits here in small parts, building consensus before adding it back to the article. Barca ( talk) 16:50, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
@ DeweyDecimalLansky: I am one more incident away from reporting you for both POV pushing and personal attacks. In what universe was my addition of the term "political" [8] "ad hominem "justified" revision trying to create nonsensical, non-existent redundant term"? [9], I literally made it match the Wikipedia article as you CLAIMED you did, but didn't [10]. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 17:33, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
@ HistoryofIran: I re-added Dewey's content, as well as your term, but I removed content that would violate WP:BLP. You can revert me if you want, I'm open to building consensus via discussion. But now, with the removal of the loaded language as well as content that is "guilt by association", it should be easy now to establish consensus. Thanks, pandakekok9 ( talk) 03:05, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Greetings Pandakekok9. My concern is also that these edits include many modifications to the article that sometimes change the attention from Maryam Rajavi to other topics like PMOI or her husband. I think the long-standing version was more neutral and more faithful to the subject, so please allow me to revert and let’s look at the edits section by section, starting with the lead.
”People's Mujahedin of Iran (MEK), a political-militant organization”
This description is about the PMOI and not about Rajavi, and its a complicated description. The PMOI initially declared armed struggle against the Islamic Republic, but they were disarmed by the US and declared “protected persons" during the Iraq war. [11] [12]. It currently "claims it is seeking regime change in Iran through peaceful means with an aim to replace the clerical rule in Tehran with a secular government." [13] Describing it as a militant-political organization in the lead of Maryam Rajavi's article gives a rather unsupported POV that Rajavi is somehow involved in militant undertakings.
"Until 2013, Maryam Rajavi's group was designated as a terrorist organization on the United States Department of State list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations. Rudy Giuliani, John Bolton, among others were supporters of de-listing Rajavi's organizations from the designations."
We have the same problem here where we are delving into issues regarding the PMOI (or NCRI) instead of Maryam Rajavi. The PMOI (and NCRI) are not “Maryam Rajavi’s groups”. She co-heads these organizations (together with her missing husband). The issues of listing, de-listing, and political support are described in the NCRI and PMOI articles, where I think is more relevant.
"Maryam Rajavi enjoyed the support of both the Obama and Trump administrations."
The Obama and Trump administrations supported the PMOI. This is not about Maryam Rajavi explicitly.
"Massoud Rajavi, who is the co-leader of MEK and reportedly dead or missing."
This is also not about Maryam Rajavi explicitly. There is an article about Massoud Rajavi (who is also the co-leader of the NCRI) already linked in the article.
We can talk about this more. My point is that I tend to agree that the focal point of the article should be on the sources and information talking about Maryam Rajavi respectively. - MA Javadi ( talk) 17:29, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
The Paris Police claimed "that the group was planning to move its military base to France and launch terrorist attacks on Iranian targets in Europe", which caused some members of Rajavi's organizations to
set themselves ablaze.
[1]
Currently the Rajavi denied the charges
part of the "France" subsection doesn't make sense, as the charges aren't mentioned in the article. If needed, we could reword that removed part so that it's more neutral and is specifically about Maryam. I think The police claimed that the group planned to establish a base and launch attacks on Iranian targets from there.
should work.
pandakekok9 (
talk) 09:35, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
In 2018, MEK defectors accused Rajavi of helping her husband abuse female members. One of the defectors alleged that "she used to read the vows" during the marriages of Massoud and the female MEK members.
[2]
I removed a similar paragraph as that didn't seem to directly mention Maryam, but this time it does directly accuse Maryam, and I think it is relevant and should be included in the article. pandakekok9 ( talk) 09:47, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Greetings Pandakekok9: Thanks for your response too. Concerning mentioning the charges, I agree this could be good for the article. Maybe reword something like this?
The police placed the group under formal investigation on suspicion of "associating with wrongdoers in relation with a terrorist undertaking
[3]
About accusations by defectors, there is a big misinformation thing going around through alleged MEK defectors (and non-defectors [14] [15] [16]), so my suggestion would be to generally avoid claims from defectors and just stick to claims from reliable authors since this is a highly controversial article. - MA Javadi ( talk) 18:00, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The police claimed that the group planned to establish a base on France and launch attacks on Iranian targets from there.
[1] The group was then placed under formal investigation over suspicion of links to terrorism and money laundering.
[3]
What do you think? pandakekok9 ( talk) 05:20, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Twenty-four people were originally placed under formal investigation, including Maryam Rajavi, the leader of the PMOI’s political wing, the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI), on suspicion of “associating with wrongdoers in relation with a terrorist undertaking”.
She and 23 other people were investigated over suspicion of links to terrorism.
[3]
That should accurately and concisely cover what charges she was facing, and avoid having to use quotes. pandakekok9 ( talk) 04:01, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
I have tried to add these revisions, but they are being scrubbed off by edit disputes. Please see the added section below:
[START OF ADDED SECTION]
Allegations of cult or terrorism affiliation
In October 2011, Theresa May banned Rajavi from coming to Britain in a trip where she was to "explain how women are mistreated in Iran" with the stated reason of Maryam Rajavi's affiliations with terrorism. The high court then sued Theresa May, with Lord Carlile of Berriew (the Government's former independent reviewer of counter-terrorism laws) saying that May's decision "could be viewed as appeasing the Mullahs". [1] [2] However, In 2014, the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom dismissed an appeal from Lord Carlile of Berriew QC and others and upheld it to maintain the ban, which had originally been implemented in 1997. Members of the UK House of Lords argued that the Home Secretary was "violating Article 10 (freedom of expression) of the European Convention of Human Rights (the Convention)", saying that "Home Secretary’s reasons were legally irrelevant, because they depended on the potential reaction of a foreign state which did not share the values embodied in the Convention." [3] [4]
In 2020, the "Intercept" reported former group member's allegations of forced sterilization and torture by Rajavi and her husband. From the article: “I couldn’t feel whether I was alive or dead,” said Issa Azadeh, a senior operative who left the group in 2014 after 34 years. “I was thinking, ‘Did I make a mistake?’ But the first time when I got into the internet, I saw the truth. I searched about cults. I realized we were robots." [5]
In 2017, journalist, Mehdi Hasan, reported via the "Intercept" that Rajavi's financing comes from the Government of Saudi Arabia and right-wing war-hawk ideologues in the US and Europe. [6]
In November, 2018, The Guardian extensively reported terrorist affiliations and politicized de-designation from the United States Department of State list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations for Rajavi's groups. [7]
[END OF ADDED SECTION]
What are the compelling reasons for not including these very reliable sources and articles? They are not on the unreliable sources list. Why is this information all missing from this person's biography and why does it read like an advertisement for the person instead of an actual encyclopedic biography for academics to possibly utilize without suffering integrity issues over major aspects of this person missing from the BLP article? DeweyDecimalLansky ( talk) 17:47, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
@ DeweyDecimalLansky: You could also use the following source, the chapter Cultic Characteristics of the MeK for your purpose.
The subsections of this chapter are as follows:
Ghazaalch ( talk) 04:58, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
Stefka Bulgaria meetings with world leaders that generate coverage in reliable sources merit inclusion in this article. So why did you revert this? The information is well-sourced and neutrally phrased. VR talk 01:51, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
I have no intention of arguing with someone who is obviously not interested in the truth and who makes accusations without providing any proof, but for the interest of other readers and to prove that the regime lies and is running a demonization campaign against the Iranian opposition, I would like to answer the accusations.
Please, everyone reading this bear in mind that I am not myself a member of the PMOI, thus the answers I give would probably not be up to the standards of the organisation.
In response to “Didn't your organization use to kill Americans in Iran during the previous regime?”
The PMOI, (not my organisation) has never killed Americans in Iran. I understand that some 5 of 6 Americans were killed in Iran at the time of the Shah and then attributed to the Iranian opposition, however at the time the PMOI issued a statement denouncing the acts, which were later discovered to be the work of a splinter organisation, PEYKAR, who after the revolution joined Khomeini’s forces in suppressing the Iranian PMOI members, but today they are non-existent in Iran.
In response to “Were you guys not the ones who helped Khomeini come to power?”
The PMOI, (again not my organisation) fought an underground resistance against the Shah’s regime so as to free the Iranian people from tyranny. At the time Khomeini was living in France. By the time of the 1979 revolution, the entire PMOI leadership was in the Shah’s prisons, thus Khomeini was able to steal the revolution as his own and then introduced his brand of Islamic fundamentalism to suppress the Iranian people far more than the Shah did. Of course Khomeini knew that the PMOI could not be negotiated with if he were to suppress the people since they sacrificed their lives for the peoples’ freedom. Therefore most of Khomeini’s violence was directed at the PMOI, and even his number 2 man, Ayatollah Montazeri has admitted in his memoirs that in the span of only a few weeks in the summer of 1988 more than 30,000 PMOI members were executed in Khomeini’s prisons. To date Khomeini’s regime has executed over 120,000 members of the PMOI. So, I hope everyone now understands that it was not the PMOI would brought Khomeini to power. They were in prison, and when the revolution broke out Khomeini stole the momentum and pronounced himself leader, whereas before he was living in France.
In response to “Were you not involved in the takeover of the American embassy in Tehran and taking hostages?”
The PMOI never supported the regime when it took hostages in the American embassy. They gave at least a dozen statements during the 444 days denouncing the action, which in fact gave Khomeini a chance to label the Mojahedin “pro-American” and get his henchmen to attack members and supporters of the organisation.
In response to “Did you not cooperate with Saddam Hussein?”
One common charge the Iranian Ministry of Intelligence and Security (VEVAK) spreads about the PMOI is that the organisation cooperated with Saddam Hussein. After Khomeini’s regime executed tens of thousands of Mojahedin members and their supporters, the PMOI would their base to Iran-Iraq border. The Iran-Iraq war lasted from 1980-88. At the beginning, when Iraqi forces invaded Iran, the Mojahedin fought them, (ironically, while they were fighting Iraq, regime’s forces also shot at them from behind, so they really had to defend against both fronts). However in 1982, Iraq pulled its troops out of Iran, and declared a ceasefire. The Mojahedin promptly accepted a ceasefire on the grounds that over 100,000 Iranians and Iraqis had been killed in the war, however Khomeini chose not to accept the ceasefire and instead made the slogan “Capture Jerusalem through Baghdad” and continued the war for a further six years, at the end of which more than a million people were left dead. In 1986 Mojahedin set up base on the Iraqi side of the Iran-Iraq border, with the ceasefire they signed in effect. One of VEVAK’s usual claims is that PMOI cooperated with Iraq because it maintained an office in Baghdad throughout the years, however the reality is that Britain, France, Germany, Russia … all had and continue to have an embassy in Iraq, (even the Iranian regime has one there now). It makes perfect sense for an organisation on Iraqi soil to have a press office in Baghdad, and it doesn’t automatically mean that they cooperate with the regime.
In response to “Are you not cooperating with Washington now?”
The PMOI were never enemies with the United States to begin with, their only enemy is the Iranian regime which has killed over 120,000 political prisoners and tortured over 500,000. During the U.S.-led war on Iraq, the PMOI neither assisted the Americans nor the Iraqis, thus they are now protected under the 4th Geneva Convention. The other thing the PMOI have done that is really hard to swallow for the regime is that they revealed its clandestine nuclear weapons sites. The regime had not declared these to the IAEA until the Iranian opposition revealed that, and these are not my words; these are the words of the IAEA officials and George Bush who clarified it during a recent a press conference. If this person is criticizing the PMOI for revealing to the world that the regime was secretly making nuclear weapons, then I would seriously suggest that this person’s motives are extremely suspect!
In response to “Do Iranian people like you and support you?”
As an Iranian I would say the Mojahedin are supported by the vast majority of Iranians inside and outside Iran, and that is why they have so much international support too.
As I wrote in my previous post, this guy is continuously offensive and uses offending language, as one would expect from likely VEVAK agents who are there to defend a corrupt dictatorship.
Now, everyone can see that the charges this person levels are unsubstantiated and his motives are extremely suspect. For anyone wanting to learn more about the Ministry of Intelligence and Security (VEVAK) and their campaign to demonize the Iranian opposition, please take a look at this site: www.iranterror.com -- RezaKia 18:29, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Usually when regime's agents blow their cover. At first they responces make no sence, and later they start to repeat all their previous lies. Just reading the note written by this "anonymous" guy, he doesn't seem to be able to reply yet continues to revert the page to his vandalism. (Note: pretty soon, I suspect, he will start to call me a terrorist again, as he has done in the Talk section of the page Mojahedin-e Khalq.)-- RezaKia 08:01, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
"The Mujahideen organization is jointly run by husband and wife Massoud and Maryam Rajavi"[8]
"Rajavi and his wife and co-head of the organization, Maryam"[9]
"The faces of Mujahedin-e-Khalq leaders Massoud and Maryam Rajavi briefly disrupted state TV programming"[10]
"MEK leaders Massoud Rajavi and his wife, Maryam Rajavi"[11]
"The key leadership cell of the MEK fled to France … including the two primary leaders - Massoud Rajavi."[12]
Other than claims by some speculators, Massoud Rajavi going missing has not had an official impact on the leadership of the MEK as far as I know. Fad Ariff ( talk) 12:00, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
"to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article". Infoboxes, like the lead, only summarize what is in the article, and any information in the infobox should also already be in the article (except for certain technical details like maps, coordinates and other exceptions). The idea that an infobox mention of key biographical information is an excuse for not including that information in the article itself is a made-up one, contrary to the guideline and pretty contrary to common sense. As for Massoud, one would think being "missing, presumed dead" - a phrase that is repeteadly widely across reliable sources - would be a pretty severe impediment to leadership. I'm not sure how one would go about being a dead leader. 'Public face' is not the only language in sources that refer to Maryam's leadership - others simple state that she is the 'de facto' leader. Of your sources, the first two precede 2003, when Massoud disappeared; the second two are about his picture being on display, which is neither here nor there. That just leaves the US government source, which does not trump the BBC. Iskandar323 ( talk) 13:06, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Personal life: Maryam was married with Mehdi Abrishamchi, whom she divorced in 1985. She then married Massoud Rajavi."
"Massoud Rajavi hasn't been seen publicly in nearly two decades and is presumed to have died. Maryam Rajavi now runs MEK."How about you find a source that says Massoud still runs the MEK. Iskandar323 ( talk) 18:57, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
"I asked you for sources showing Massoud Rajavi isn’t part of the leadership anymore...Now you've said you're not asking for that. Then you've said there aren't sources saying he's no longer in the leadership, but those were just provided. And you've said "most sources" say something, without providing any evidence. There isn't any sense to any of this. Iskandar323 ( talk) 14:38, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
"Massoud Rajavi ... is presumed to have died. Maryam Rajavi now runs MEK."Iskandar323 ( talk) 12:30, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
"Massoud Rajavi hasn't been seen publicly in nearly two decades and is presumed to have died. Maryam Rajavi now runs MEK."[17] For anyone not totally illiterate, the meaning of this should be plain. The emphasis on "now" in particular indicating a change of circumstances. Iskandar323 ( talk) 12:18, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
"The Mujahideen organization is jointly run by husband and wife Massoud and Maryam Rajavi"[13]
"Rajavi and his wife and co-head of the organization, Maryam"[14]
"The faces of Mujahedin-e-Khalq leaders Massoud and Maryam Rajavi briefly disrupted state TV programming"[15]
"MEK leaders Massoud Rajavi and his wife, Maryam Rajavi"[16]
"The key leadership cell of the MEK fled to France … including the two primary leaders - Massoud Rajavi."[17]
Of your sources, the first two precede 2003, when Massoud disappeared; the second two are about his picture being on display, which is neither here nor there. That just leaves the US government source- that being also fairly dated at this point and exceptionally so relative to the 2022 VOA/AP source that you yourself provided. Iskandar323 ( talk) 12:28, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
"Furthermore, the assassinations of exiled Iranian political activists - including those of former Prime Minister Shahpour Bakhtiar; Kazem Rajavi, the brother of MKO Leader Masoud Rajavi"in Routledge 2017 book "The Revolutionary Guards in Iranian Politics: Elites and Shifting Relations" By Bayram Sinkaya. Fad Ariff ( talk) 12:05, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
"Masud Rajavi was (and still is) the leader of Mojahedin-e Khalq."
"Massoud Rajavi - leader of the MEK but has not been seen in public since the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq."Potomac Books publisher "Iran's Revolutionary Guard: The Threat That Grows While America Sleeps" from 2015 by Steven O'hern.
"Opposition to the Iranian regime The People's Mujahidin of Iran (mujahidin e-khalq) Leader: Massoud Rajavi (in exile in France from 1981 to 1986, then in Baghdad)."Harvard University Press book "The Iran-Iraq War" from 2015 by Pierre Razoux.
"The dominant militant force in opposition against the Islamic Republic of Iran was Mujahideen-e-Khalq (MEK). Led by a husband and wife team, Massoud and Maryam Rajavi..."Rowman & Littlefield Publishers book "Historical Dictionary of Islamic Fundamentalism" from 2017 by Mathieu Guidère.
@ User:Fad Ariff & User:Iskandar323, I came here from WP:3o when some one removed entry for becoming stale on the other hand dispute still seems being discussed. I would suggest both the users to write synopsis in 500 words limit each with links to relevant difs and refs. Bookku ( talk) 18:12, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
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Iskandar323, the marriage between Maryam and Massoud Rajavi is already mentioned in this article. There is a detailed section about the MEK going through the ideological revolution in the MEK article. If you’re interested in expanding that information, that’s the section (and article) where to do it (I will expand that section further shortly). Cherrypicking one aspect of the ideological revolution and putting it in this article would be a WP:NPOV fail. Fad Ariff ( talk) 13:13, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
Why the Revolutionary Marriage of the leader is missing here? Did it tally up with the Islamic Laws or not? In Islam women cannot re-marry for at least 90 days after divorcing the previous husband. And I understand Maryam married the new husband in a few days after her divorce! http://www.rickross.com/reference/mujahedeen/mujahedeen3.html Rajavi's meteoric ascent within the group was coupled with the dumping of her first husband and pairing off with the rugged Massoud, fuelling criticism from detractors who say the group is little more than a cult.
Also, this is not a place for exposing someone's political platforms. Excess quotations will be removed.
Looking at this talk page: the article is about a particular person. All criticism of the organization, especially about its alleged past is irrelevant and must be discussed in the page related to this organization.
Please discuss all deletions here, at talk page. Also, you have an option to create a section for criticism and opposing point of view. But wholesale reversals will not be tolerated. mikka (t) 28 June 2005 20:04 (UTC)
The page is protected against wholesale reverts while refuising explanations of deleted information.
Normally the editor who is repeatedly doing so would be blocked. I cannot do this now due to a software bug in the new release. Protection will be removed when blocking capabilities.
RezaKia, please keep in mind that this article is about the person, not about various events and her political party, and it is not a platform for her political propaganda. Her views must be explained clearly, but not with massive quotations.
I will also seriously abbreviate the descriptions of events, since such things are not normally included in people's biographies in such detail. If you have any objections, please state them here. mikka (t) 28 June 2005 22:26 (UTC)
Dear Mikka, I think you are right to shorten texts about events. To be honest I haven't been able to work extensively on improving my text since this anonymous person(s) keeps reverting it. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:53 (UTC)
Wikipedia has strict policies about copyrights; please see Wikipedia:copyrights an read carefully section about image use. Copyrighted images and images of unknown source are deleted from wikipedia. Please provide the source of the images you uploaded and their copyright status; please read Wikipedia:Image copyright tags. mikka (t) 28 June 2005 22:53 (UTC)
Thanks for blocking the vandalism.
By the way, the pictures were taken by two of my friends at the events with a private camera apart from the one from an old newspaper clipping which I scanned and the open source photo of Mrs. Rajavi at the top. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 00:49 (UTC)
Dear Mikkalai I spoke with my two friends about the pictures. They explained to me that the photos were the same open-source photos that are also available on Maryam Rajavi's website. They told me that the photographs were presented on the web and also to reporters at conferences as a handout free to be used without copyright. I am not sure where I should state this on the photo. The newspaper clipping is from the daily "Mojahed" from June 1981. Being an organisation that was outlawed by the Iranian regime in Iran, officially they could not have "copyrights" thus the scan is not illegal by any means. I only put it there however to backup the fact that half a million people demonstrated in support of the PMOI in June 1981. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:10 (UTC)
Also you will notice that I wrote the bulk of material on the page but the vandals just change the text to purposefully make it negative. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 00:50 (UTC)
I appologize to Wikipedia for having used the term vandal on the talk section of the page. I only did it because I felt that the person(s) changing the page were doing so without reason. You have said that you took a look at the talk section of the Mojahedin-e-Khalq page and I am sure you have seen them write there that they "HATE THIS GROUP". I felt that this person(s) was editting out of contempt. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:10 (UTC)
Dear Mikka, May I also suggest you take a look at the talk page in Talk:People's_Mujahedin_of_Iran -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 00:55 (UTC)
What was it? Is it described in wikipedia? mikka (t) 29 June 2005 01:52 (UTC)
The June 17 raid has not been made clear in Wikipedia which I thought ought to be. On that day in 2003 over 1,300 French anti-terrorist police in a coordinated effort raided the homes of Iranian dissidents and the offices of the National Council of Resistance of Iran. Some 165 activists including Rajavi were arrested. The French government charged that the Iranian opposition was bringing its base of operations to France though the NCRI said that the raid was conducted as part of France's appeasement policy towards Iran. In the days that followed, nearly a 1,000 oppostion supporters went on hunger strike in capitals around the world. Several supporters of the Iranian Resistance even set themselves on fire in front of French embassies in protest to the raid. The NCRI annouced within a two weeks the support of over 500 political personalities across the world, including a number of US Senators and Congressmen. One NCRI's website and Maryam Rajavi's wbsite both carry scanned copies of many of the letters written by such people. In the end on July 3, French courts ruled that the government did not have a case to hold Maryam Rajavi or any of the 165 people arrested in prison and all were release. Two years on, none have been charged and the fiasco remains a huge embarresment for the French government. The NCRI in later conferences revealed previously secret documents obtained from within the clerical regime in Iran which showed that the raid was carried out at the request of the Iranian regime. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:50 (UTC)
What were the names of this woman in various times? Clearly, she was not at all "Mrs. Rajavi" during her student times and when she was married someone else. mikka (t) 1 July 2005 22:31 (UTC)
Mikki for your information, scandals are usually "secret" whereas the divorce and marriage in this case was public. If anyone researches about the issue they will note that the marriage was more for convenience since the Mojahedin believed that men and women should be treated as equals. The most prominent female Resistance member was Maryam Rajavi, who spearheaded the women's movement as is made clear in the Main article. This marriage brought her to the same level as Mojahedin leader Massoud Rajavi in the eyes of Iranians, especially those who supported the organization. Of course the Iranian regime has always tried to disrepute the Mojahedin by making this seem like some kind of "secret scandal". Though, their efforts are mainly for Western public consumption as the majority of Iranians are quite familiar with the issue. -- RezaKia 2 July 2005 19:50 (UTC)
This page is pure propaganda and should be completely changed or deleted.
"In August 1993, the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI), the Iranian Resistance's parliament, elected Maryam Rajavi as Iran's future president for the transitional period following the mullahs' overthrow."
They elected the entire government of future iran for themselfs.
Despite their arrogance and the huge amount of money and weapons they recieved from saddam, they did nothing to reach their despicable goals. The only thing they were good at was setting themselfs on fire to protest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkred ( talk • contribs) 03:30, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I wrote a mini-biography of Maryam Rajavi, and even put pictures (from her website) that to prove the facts.
For example, I wrote about her address to a 15,000 Iranians in Dortmund (Germany) and put a picture of that as well as another gathering which she spoke to in person of 25,000 Iranians in Earl's Court, in London (United Kingdom). These events of course received much press coverage both in German and British dailies. There is however someone who keeps vandalising the text, changing facts and even writing unsubstantiated lies. The person, whom I suspect of being an agent of the Iranian regime, also vandalises the page about the People's Mojahedin Organisation of Iran (PMOI), again deleting factual texts and writing lies. It does not surprise me that agents on the payroll of the Iranian Intelligence Ministry (VEVAK) abroad try to white-wash their own crimes and pretend that the Iranian opposition are the "criminal", since I know that VEVAK are actively pursuing a campaign to demonize the Iranian opposition in the West. (If you read the talk section and edit sections of the Maryam Rajavi page and the Mojahedin-e Khalq page you will undoubtedly see that the guy continuously calls me and my friend "Terrorists" without even the slightest idea of who I am or who he is) What does however disappoint me is Wikipedia's inability to combat such abuse. Despite the service being an extremely valuable one, Wikipedia seems unable to control vandalism on its encyclopaedia.
One other fact that I thought would be useful for everyone to know, is that the Iranian regime has to date executed over 120,000 political prisoners of the PMOI and have acknowledged this themselves. A partial list of the names and particulars of those executed can be found at www.iranterror.com . Ayatollah Montazeri, Khomeini’s right hand man wrote in his memoirs a few years ago (as published in the Sunday Times) that the regime executed over 30,000 PMOI members in a matter of a few weeks in 1988. Khomeini's henchmen, many of whom today live abroad and try to demonize the Iranian opposition, also tortured over half a million PMOI supporters inside Iran's prisons. Yet, when I added the 120,000 figure in the page about the Mojahedin, the regime's guy removed it, and again started to say that such a thing was a lie. This is how VEVAK tries to demonize the Iranian opposition.
The other problem is that this guy is continuously offensive and uses offending language, as one would expect from agents who are there to defend a corrupt dictatorship.-- RezaKia 16:51, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
There is a photo of Massoumeh which I am again willing to scan. Iranian press reported her death as "a great victory for the Islamic republic" because of who she was. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:16 (UTC)
Two diametral versions.
Both sides, please explain. mikka (t) 29 June 2005 01:33 (UTC)
First and foremost, the name of this organisation is People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran (PMOI). This name appears on the top of all their statements issued and is even written at the top of the their website at www.mojahedin.org . The reality that the PMOI was the principal opposition movement was noted in seven consequtive reports on the organization by the U.S. State Department. The U.S. Library of Congress also wrote the same thing about the group in a 1988 report on Iran. All these reports are still available on both the US State Dept. website and the US LOC website. The term MKO is solely used by the Iranian regime simply because it sounds "harsher" to Western ears. This is also noted in the US State Dept reports, though not in the Library of Congress record.-- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:23 (UTC)
Anonym wrote:
Maryam Rajavi became a prominent figure in the group before the marriage. The marriage itself was more ceremonial than anything else. I might be wrong about this, but as I undstood it, the marriage made Maryam Rajavi an equal to Massoud Rajavi, thus the PMOI were able to fight against misogyny by having a woman as the leader. The PMOI said at the time that the Khomeini regime suppressed women, thus the best fighters against the regime "ideologically" were women. Again I may be wrong about this but to the best of my knowledge no other Islamic group is led by a woman. It is also interesting to note that in following years the PMOI's entire leadership council became comprised of women. The Iranian regime, as part of its demonizing campaign of course said that this was done to gain the support of Western politicians, but as I am sure you can imagine, it would be follhearted to give the entire command of an organization to other individuals solely to gain a good image in the West. No group would do such a thing. The realilty is that the PMOI genuinly believed that to fight against Khomenei you had to fight against misogyny. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:32 (UTC)
the numbers require confirmation. mikka (t) 29 June 2005 01:50 (UTC)
The number of Iranians attending the Dortmund gathering was also confirmed in an article by the German news service DPA at the time and the Iranian oppostion movement advertised this greatly. I put the photos to back up the case about the figures.
Regarding the "20,000 Iranians and French citizens", I myself did not write that part of the page, though my friends were able to give me the photos of the gathering. I did however see a report on the event on the site
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2514 which confirms the figure. --
RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:36 (UTC)
The rest of anon's replacement text is irrelevant to the person in question and must be discussed in the article about the party. mikka (t) 29 June 2005 01:54 (UTC)
Who? mikka (t) 30 June 2005 23:06 (UTC)
The Iranian opposition has held a number of concerts/political support gatherings in many cities across the world. Famous foreign singers who have performed for them include Chris de Burgh and Gypsy Kings but I think the majority of the performers, filmmakers, artists, painters, sculptors, poets and writers are actually Iranian ones. For example Iran's number one violinist has been supporting them for many years now. Also Marzieh, who in her time, was Iran's most famous singer actually joined the group a number of years ago. -- RezaKia 1 July 2005 00:00 (UTC)
Since the page was a biography about Maryam Rajavi, I did not go so far as writing each of the names of the personalities who have supported the PMOI. I will however at the request of Mikkalai spend some time in writing all the names which I can research in printed publications and on the internet and add them to the article as you wish. I do request however that somebody warn the "Anonymous" person of accusing me of being a member of the Mojahedin. Personal attacks should not be tolerated in Wikipedia. Both me and Hanif have made clear in previous sections of the Edit and Talk pages of the Mojahedin and Maryam Rajavi pages that we were friends, so how can this guy claim that "we are the same"!!! --
RezaKia 2 July 2005 19:51 (UTC)
To Mikka and other general readers, I would point out that I only edit articles which I am knowledgable about, and I do know a thing or to about the PMOI. I would point out that the person that is making the accusations doesn't even have a Wikipedia name and just comes in with whatever IP his ISP provides each time. He too ONLY edits articles about the PMOI and tries to make them negative in any shape or form. I suggest that he has a political agenda and his IP should be banned for making personal remarks against others. If people read the Talk sections of Mojahedin and Maryam Rajavi pages they will see that he also swears at anyone who writes factually correct articles about the Mojahedin, of course, while hiding his true identity by not even having a Wikipedia username. -- RezaKia 3 July 2005 00:27 (UTC)
To Mikka and other general readers, I hope that by reading my comments posted a little higher up the page you have enough information about me. If you want more, please state and I will be happy to give you. I will also add the completed list of artists, poets, sculptors, writers once I complete it since I am doing other work in my spare time as well. Please note that I refuse to answer questions by both agents of the Iranian regime as well as people who don't even introduce themselves on Wikipedia, choosing instead to make anonymous posts. The person who is accusing me of being the same person as Hanif (ie "identity fraud") does not even have a Wikipedia ID!!! I wish everyone a happy 4th of July holiday, and hope that other constructive posts will be added by unbiased people so that we can further improve this article. I am also preparing a section which would have highlights of Maryam Rajavi's recent activities. (I suspect most of it is already on her own site as well, but since this is an independent encylcopedia I think we should put a condensed "non-advertising" version in her biography here as well). -- RezaKia 3 July 2005 17:48 (UTC)
To Mikka and other admins, This is a partial list which I wrote in my free time: Chris de Burgh, The Gipsy Kings, Jean Ferrar (Famous French singer), Marzieh (Iran's most famous female singer), Greek diva Maria Farantouri, Abbé Pierre (Winner of the award in France as the most famous social figure in the country), Mme Danielle Mitterrand (Former French First Lady), Ross Poppel (Conductor of the London Philharmonic Orchestra), Yehudi Menuhin (UK, later became a Lord), Reza Olia, William Nygaard (Norwegian publisher), Fouzieh Mehran (distinguished Egyptian writer), Nina Karin Monsen (Norwegian philosopher and author).
Now I want to know something. How can this guy say that he is unbiased? For starters he says "it is 11 days since mikka asked for some names, and RezaKia promised to provide them but now we can see that he seems to have simply disappeared. This just shows that I was right that RezaKia was the same pereson as Hanifjazayer and he was a member of the MKO". Considering that it is the holiday season (and even if it wasn't), how can this guy without being biased state that since it had been 11 days that I didn't write some names, that would automatically make me "the same person as Hanifjazayer" and "a member of the MKO"?!!! (He obviously has suspect motives for saying this. If anything a member of the PMOI would be able to produce it faster!)
As an Iranian, I know about the PMOI considerably, but no-one can expect me to remember the names of famous supporters off by heart, (even actual members of the Mojahedin wouldn't be able to that). I found these names of personalities on their personal websites where they state their support. Some of them are also mentioned on Maryam Rajavi's website. This is just a partial list, because if I wanted to put a whole list together it would take forever, but I hope Mikka that this is sufficient.
The other thing Mikka (and other admins), is that this guy (although I would say they are a group) doesn't even have a Wikipedia username since all he does is come along, vandalise articles for the Iranian regime's benefit, and then leaves. His motives are suspect and he clearly has an agenda. I have answered all questions asked by admins here. You will notice that I have written a lot here but he hasn't answered any of the questions.
Here's a though: Has this guy (or this group) actually even made one unbiased factual statement in this page (which he has been able to back up like I have done) or does he just make random accusations, edits the page without providing factual arguments, and uses abusive language? The reality is that the Iranian regime's Ministry of Intelligence and Security (VEVAK) is a vast sinister organisation. In the Middle East, it is second only to MOSSAD (Israeli intelligence). Its purpose is to destroy any opposition to the Ayatollahs. It has a two-pronged strategy; one is international terrorism such as assassination of dissidents; the other is a vast disinformation campaign it is running to demonize the Iranian opposition in the West. Did you know recently Human Rights Watch issued a report against the Mojahedin, based on telephone interviews with 12 Iranian intelligence operatives in Europe? The National Council of Resistance of Iran recently announced on its website that over 500 parliamentarians around the world had condemned HRW for writing a biased report. For example in the report HRW announced as facts that the 12 people it had telephone-interviewed had physical torture scars on their bodies. But how can it verify that when it only spoke to them on the phone and even admitted to never having seen the 12 individuals. But it goes to show how far VEVAK has gone in its campaign to demonize the Iranian opposition. I give you one more example, then I have to go, VEVAK websites such as Iran-Interlink and Iran Didban etc... have put a video of a meeting between Iranian Resistance leader Massoud Rajavi and Saddam Hussein, which VEVAK claims to have discovered in a secret location after the US-led war in Iraq. The reality is the complete opposite. If anyone sees the video they will notice that at the top left there is an insignia. This is the insignia of the Iranian Resistance's own satellite TV channel. You ask why? Simple. Because this was not a secret video discovered in Saddam's labs, rather it was a video of the ceasefire agreement, that Massoud Rajavi went to sign with Saddam to end the Iran-Iraq war, which was broadcast by the Iranian Resistance themselves. Khomeini wanted to continue the Iran-Iraq war which cost a million lives, though Rajavi wanted to end it to stop so many lives from being killed. So again you can see how VEVAK is taking a public video, putting false subtitles underneath it, and then using it to demonize the Iranian opposition in the West. For more information I refer you to www.iranterror.com that explains some of VEVAK's most sinister tactics.-- RezaKia 09:07, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I was following up with several subjects. Tell you frankly I am half Iranian, half English (I like both parts of me!). As a spectator to this unbelievable, and un-necessary verbal "communication" I a not a bit convinced on you too Mr.mikka. I think you are strangely over reacting on elements which are actually extracts of news reports and Internet sites. Some for your amusement is verified in the Iranian Intelligence ministry's internet sites as well. So, you know what? A big question comes up over the credibility of this site, if it is being speculated -or edited - or moderated by volunteers, and not professionals. At least I did not have this image about Wikipedia. I must admit that until now it had been one of my major references. I Hope I am wrong. But I prefer to rely on a biased supervisor. On the other hand, this whole cynical argument, would naturally provoke both parties to use language not fit for an encyclopedia!. So I do disagree with questioning, and undermining all info put by someone in this place. I think it is like as if one feels another sort of violation of freedom of speech! Please not here, at least let every one speak and judge. I do understand as well the difference between a forum and an encyclopedia, but this scene was too much! -- setareh
The wikipedia is edited by volunteers. The credibility depends on people accepting the WP:NPOV mechanism which means accepting that points of view which are stated by "credible" personalities or organisations, and preferably traceable to online sources are considered "facts" in the sense that "person X stated Y" is a fact, even if you may feel that Y is clearly false. Anyway, please see WP:NPOV. i put in the cleanup tag because clearly this page needs a lot of work - preferably between people who know the subject, i.e. Maryam Rajavi. Boud 01:21, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
did you even read any of my edits before reverting them and making those funny comments, this whole page was prior to when i edited it a propaganda page, very likely made by yourself. Next time you revert i will have to report you for spreading propaganda in Wikipedia. -- Darkred 03:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Dear user:jayjg, you said: "if she's elected how can she be "self-proclaimed"? And what makes the group "terrorist"? And why would you remove all that information, including the link to her site?"
Like i meant to say above, perhaps you should consider reading the new article before reverting and then asking all those questions. If you read it your questions would be answered. However without even questioning you have also deleted my added source(new york times) which is considered a reliable source. Please revert the article back. Thank you for your cooperation.-- Darkred 09:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Now to your questions. you said: "if she's elected how can she be "self-proclaimed?" Like it said in my edits and on the new york times, the ones that elected her is no other than her own organization the MKO, they have many names for themselfs to fool iranians into joining them, one of their names is: National Council of Resistance of Iran. Thus she is self-proclaimed. Your other question: And what makes the group "terrorist" Again like it said in the source, her organization the MKO have been on the USA list of terrorist gropus in years. just search the net. In the future please consider reading the article fully before questioning your own "missed lines". I didn't have to explain everything step by step, everything was clearly provided on my edit, but i did it anyway. Thank you for your understanding in advance. -- Darkred 11:23, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
This whole biography is copied almost 1:1 from the public information website of the National Council of resistance of Iran ( http://www.ncr-iran.org/content/view/12/26/). While this says nothing about the veracity of the facts in this article it casts doubt on the neutrality of the author.
I don't know whether this has been noted already in this discussion (since the website already has the neutrality sign) and I did not have the time to read the whole discussion, but I thought it should be noted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.154.149.18 ( talk • contribs)
I have reverted them, I think it's best to add the citation tag so it can be investigated further as it is definately not nonsense -- - K a s h Talk | email 10:30, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
I have protected the page on the last additional edit. Subsequent to that it is only slow revert warring. As usual someone will hold this protection being on the wrong version. That is just fine by me. Please slug it out on the talk pages before any editing or unprotecting takes place. The editwarring is only about a sentence and a half or so, so I think it should be relatively straight foreward to clarify Refdoc ( talk) 13:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
The abbreviated name of the People's Mojahedin Organisation of Iran is PMOI. In farsi it is Mojahedin- e - Khalq which means People's Mojahedin ( Khalq means people in Farsi). So instead of PMOI, the word MEK is also used. But "MKO" is a term used by the regime in their materials. If BBC has used this term, it is quite unfortunate! Maryam Rajavi is president-elect of the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI). Some time people use Iranian resistance instead of NCRI but the former is OK. Tom davy ( talk) 20:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
You asked several questions. I tried to reply. But it seems that you already have an opinion despite your claims. I did not insist on using the word " Iranian resistance" but you keep expressing your views on that. I had simply pointed out that if you want to use the right words to call this group, they are called PMOI or MEK. The word MKO is used by the Iranian government and its supporters. Regards, Tom davy ( talk) 15:19, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Ther's too much embedded POV in this article. Phrasing like "Khomeini's reign of terror" and "the most capable and qualified woman in the movement" are not appropriate under Wikipedia's NPOV policy. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz ( talk) 18:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I am going to add a COI tag, as this page has been heavily edited by MKO members/ WP:SPAs. The page should be cleaned up, and semi-protected in order to prevent such disruption in the future Kurdo777 ( talk) 17:10, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi Hullaballoo Wolfowitz. You have reverted my edit because you have noted that there is a BLP issue. Can you please clarify? Which part is the BLP issue you are addressing? The only thing I can think of is the section on her role in Saddam Hussein's Anfal campaign. However this is properly referenced in the New York Times article cited and the MEK (under her leadership) support for Saddam Hussein has been widely documented (see MEK page). Please clarify your concern so that I can address it.
Thanks
Poyani ( talk) 23:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
NCRI has support primarily amongst overseas Iranians. Agreed. Why add "and numerous American political officials such as former New York City Mayor and Presidential Contender Rudy Giuliani"? The support of a few American politicians is not sufficiently notable to warrant mentioning in the lede. Royalcourtier ( talk) 04:40, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
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The Iraqi Judiciary, the source of the alleged arrest warrants added to the WP page, has major flaws and fails according to Amnesty International to uphold international standards. Amnesty International's country overview on Iraq currently states:
“… Government authorities held thousands of detainees without trial; torture and other ill-treatment of detainees remained rife. Many trials did not meet international standards of fairness.” [1] Thus, undoing the added Iraq section is merited according See WP:PublicFigure TheDreamBoat ( talk) 02:58, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
Adding "However, no members were convicted", which is not cited in the source is absolutly original research, hence should be removed. The wording is already neutral, it is stating facts. Any objections? Call for Wikipedia:Third opinion. Pahlevun ( talk) 14:33, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
About the Third Opinion request: The request for a 3O made in regard to this dispute has been removed (i.e. declined) due to the RFC pending, below, on these and/or related issues. No dispute resolution process will accept a request or case while other DR is pending. RFC's generally run for at least 30 days before closing unless withdrawn prior to that time without objection from other parties. If consensus is not reached in the RFC, then 3O or some other DR process can be requested. Regards, TransporterMan ( TALK) 06:06, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
I have removed information regarding Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. Neither the information provided or the source mention the subject of this article. There for it should not be included in this article. Detente 1 ( talk) 22:43, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
The most recent edit to this section violates the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons Avoid victimization section. The rewrite of the source amounts to participating in or prolonging the victimization, which WP editors should refrain from. The violation merits a removal of the paragraph, espeically as the source is clearly a hit piece in order to present the subject negatively. TheDreamBoat ( talk) 00:17, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
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What language[s] dose she speak? She speaks Dari but any others? She has lived in France for a long time can she speak French? Or what about other languages spoken in Iran such as Azeri? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.129.155 ( talk) 00:45, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
The file Maryam Rajavi at LFTAR gathering.jpg on Wikimedia Commons has been nominated for speedy deletion. View the deletion reason at the Commons file description page. Community Tech bot ( talk) 22:52, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
Hello, I am reverting this edit by Pahlevun because the information about the Maryam Rajavi trip to the UK is already in the article:
"On October 2011 Theresa May banned Maryam Rajavi from coming to Britain in a trip where she was to "explain how women are mistreated in Iran". The high court then sued Teresa May, with Lord Carlile of Berriew (the Government's former independent reviewer of counter-terrorism laws) saying that May's decision “could be viewed as appeasing the Mullahs”.[16][17] In 2014, Supreme Court of the United Kingdom dismissed an appeal from Lord Carlile of Berriew QC and others and upheld it to maintain the ban, which had originally being implemented in 1997. Members of the UK House of Lords argued that the Home Secretary was "violating Article 10 (freedom of expression) of the European Convention of Human Rights (the Convention)", saying that “Home Secretary’s reasons were legally irrelevant, because they depended on the potential reaction of a foreign state which did not share the values embodied in the Convention.”[18][19] Rajavi is not excluded from any other European country and engages regularly with parliamentarians in the European Parliament.[20]"
Kazemita1 you're saying that you're proposing this, but you're actually pushing your edit back into the article without getting consensus first. That's edit warring (again). Stefka Bulgaria ( talk) 10:37, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi! ^_^ , I think I have contributed to Wikipedia with something I found. A much new colored picture of her Here on Flickr , under This license . BUT I have tried to upload it unsuccessfully and it overwhelms, frustrates me. Can anybody help me? THANK YOU! I cherish you!. CoryGlee ( talk) 18:51, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
I have applied two page-level restrictions here; a. 1RR — one revert per editor per 24 hours; and b. consensus required — once a new addition or change to longstanding text are reverted, the edits must be shown to enjoy consensus before being reintroduced again. Please familiarize yourself with these restrictions before making further edits to the article. This notice is simply a courtesy; the formal notice is the edit-notice, which should be abundantly visible to everyone. Vanamonde ( Talk) 16:54, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
@ 173.52.73.120: In case you didn't read this:
Editors to this page: are restricted to making no more than one revert per twenty-four (24) hours (subject to exceptions below) must not reinstate any challenged (via reversion) edits without first obtaining consensus on the talk page of this article
I would highly advise you to revert your edits and try to reach WP:CONSENSUS. Also, please don't write false summaries, I didn't request anything from you [5]. Mind you, this is a discussion that has been ongoing for a long time here [6]. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 23:51, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
@ HistoryofIran: No worries, I have included a talk section and notified the WikiPedia supervisors of the issue. Please show why you are refuting the cited information to the terrorist activities and history of this BLP so that we can reach a conclusion on the basis of evidence rather than your meritless accusation of a "false summary". The information was cited. The articles clearly state she has terrorist links and affiliations still ongoing into the Trump admin. Thank you. 173.52.73.120 ( talk) 00:15, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
@ HistoryofIran: Ditto. 173.52.73.120 ( talk) 00:26, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
As I'm reading through this talk page, I'm noticing about 99% of it is filled with items that could easily violate Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines. The discussions here are for items relevant to the BLP and to be done in a good faith, positive manner. This page, too, requires editing so that substantive discussions about the actual BLP can be noticed. I am going to clean slate here so we can have the most relevant discussions completed. DeweyDecimalLansky ( talk) 23:01, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
Any one who will revert these pages again without explanation of each and every deleted piece will be blocked from editing. I don't care about your political bickering, and it is not be tolerated in wikipedia. Answer here for each deletion separately: you have to prove each statement to be false or has reasonable doubts and request confirmation from the author, for each dubious item separately. Allah akbar. mikka (t) 30 June 2005 22:43 (UTC)
Please provide a neutral term for phrases "mullah regime", etc., in the article, which IMO are used with the intention of offense. mikka (t) 1 July 2005 23:23 (UTC)
I suggest that the terms "clerical regime" to be used instead of "mullahs' regime" if the latter phrase is seen as biased. I have seen it used in news agency reports about leaders of the Iranian regime. -- RezaKia 2 July 2005 19:55 (UTC)
It is abundantly clear to me that this particular topic is highly controversial in some circles. I highly recommend that a neutral third party fully verify all facts before they be treated as such. Without citations and proof, what SHOULD be a factual representation is no more than a debate about politics in Southeast Asia.
Maryam Rajavi's Maiden Name is Maryam Qajar Azodanlu since she is a descended from a member of the Qajar dynasty.
sources : http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=686332003
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3789 http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2980279.stm
The article says "Rajavi has given lectures on the modern, democratic version of Islam"! So she is creating a modern Islam too? What I like to know is what her religious qualifications are? Ok, I know she has none; then what is her credibility? Ok, ok, I know she doe not have any! Then what is her authority and who gave her such authorities? Ok, ok, I know the answer to this one; it is Ayatollah Tony Blair! Kiumars
http://www.hillnews.com/news/040203/terrorist.aspx
I flagged this article as a copywrite violation. It's not a complete copy-and-paste from http://www.maryam-rajavi.com/content/view/34/59/, but you can tell it comes straight from that site. Dchall1 23:56, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
The dispute appears to be
My suggestion is that these are three simple matters which can be rapidly resolved in the ususal way, by providing links and sources. For what it is worth abbreviation MKO appears to be the one in use in the BBC [7] Refdoc ( talk) 14:03, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
This article is ridiculous. The lead has qualified statements like describing the subject as "the main opposition" to the Iranian regime, despite the fact that this is a VERY questionable statement and not backed by the source listed. The first half of the article is promotional material without sources and even the rest is extremely poorly written. I am tagging it. If you disagree discuss here. Poyani ( talk) 21:16, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
I have just removed the templates after some minor clean-up as it appears that the offending material has been removed. Furthermore, the existing content seems to be properly sourced. As for the COI, no specific accusation was made, so its template removal is appropriate unless a credible claim can be made. -- Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... ( talk) 18:25, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
How can Rajavi be president elect since 1993? A president elect is someone who is elected but not yet taken office. Royalcourtier ( talk) 04:42, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
The source "Who's Who's of Women in 2002" is a self-published source. Is there any other data on Rajavi's education credentials that we can reliably include? If not, there's no proof of her education. DeweyDecimalLansky ( talk) 02:49, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
I don't understand why iranians are so anxious to support the mko, it's not like if iran's mullha's leave power iran will suddenly turn fine under an mko regime, iran is split, it's always been split, nothing will solve iran's problems, iranians are a bunch of bazaris who only care for themselves and their pockets with the opportunistic acts, under any regime they will try and fill their pockets with as much cash as possible.
I hope vevak finally finishes the job by assassinating maryam rajavi, it's the least they can do, the mko has killed many iranians, it's funny, everyone says iran's media is bias and propaganda, how can we take the word of mko then? they have no bias? they would sell their own mothers to overthrow iran's government, no doubt.
I rather iranians made an org. where armed struggle or terrorism wasn't part of it, but peaceful protests and encouraging iranians to vote the most reformist mp's into power, rather than the last election encouraging iranians not to vote and they ended up with ahmadinejad, iranfocus.com is rajavi's propaganda machine, mko has had no good for iran or iranian's cause for a democratic iran, the sooner they understand this the better, personally i hate maryam rajavi and the mko, she had a hard life, tough, live with it, it gives her no right to take someone elses life for her troubles and ideas of a new iran which i can tell you many disagree with.
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I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Maryam Rajavi and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes. |
If I read this discussion properly, it seems to be about whether to include a mention of the MEK as a terrorist organization. If we look at the current countries which explicitly designate the MEK as a "terrorist organization", we see it's only Iraq and Iran recognize it as such. Note that the UN only describe it as a group that is involved in terrorist activities, not as a terrorist organization. Let's compare with other similar articles. Jose Maria Sison is the founder of the Communist Party of the Philippines which is currently recognized by the U.S., EU, and the Philippines as a "terrorist organization". This is worse than the MEK, which only has two countries designating it as terrorist, and both of which are involved (unlike the U.S. and EU). Yet there's no mention of the CPP designated as terrorist on the first lead paragraph of JMS. Instead, it used "person supporting terrorism" on the next paragraph. There is no need to point out that the CPP is designated as a terrorist org. Another, closer example is Leila Khaled. She is a member of Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. This case is even worse, because the PFLP is designated as a "terrorist organization" by five countries (U.S., Canada, Australia, Japan, EU), and she was involved in the hijacking of TWA Flight 840, which I think we could agree is a terrorist act. However, there's no mention of terrorism at all on her lead paragraphs. Instead, it mentions her involvement in the airplane hijacking. There is no need to point out that she and the PFLP are terrorists. So I think it's not necessary to include a mention of the MEK as a "terrorist group". Mentioning it would make the article less neutral, in my opinion. It's better to let the facts speak for themselves. pandakekok9 ( talk) 11:43, 20 January 2021 (UTC) |
@ DeweyDecimalLansky: You are making too many sudden changes to this article changing its narrative completely with cherry picked sources. For this reason I will rollback the bulk of your edits. Please discuss your edits here in small parts, building consensus before adding it back to the article. Barca ( talk) 16:50, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
@ DeweyDecimalLansky: I am one more incident away from reporting you for both POV pushing and personal attacks. In what universe was my addition of the term "political" [8] "ad hominem "justified" revision trying to create nonsensical, non-existent redundant term"? [9], I literally made it match the Wikipedia article as you CLAIMED you did, but didn't [10]. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 17:33, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
@ HistoryofIran: I re-added Dewey's content, as well as your term, but I removed content that would violate WP:BLP. You can revert me if you want, I'm open to building consensus via discussion. But now, with the removal of the loaded language as well as content that is "guilt by association", it should be easy now to establish consensus. Thanks, pandakekok9 ( talk) 03:05, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Greetings Pandakekok9. My concern is also that these edits include many modifications to the article that sometimes change the attention from Maryam Rajavi to other topics like PMOI or her husband. I think the long-standing version was more neutral and more faithful to the subject, so please allow me to revert and let’s look at the edits section by section, starting with the lead.
”People's Mujahedin of Iran (MEK), a political-militant organization”
This description is about the PMOI and not about Rajavi, and its a complicated description. The PMOI initially declared armed struggle against the Islamic Republic, but they were disarmed by the US and declared “protected persons" during the Iraq war. [11] [12]. It currently "claims it is seeking regime change in Iran through peaceful means with an aim to replace the clerical rule in Tehran with a secular government." [13] Describing it as a militant-political organization in the lead of Maryam Rajavi's article gives a rather unsupported POV that Rajavi is somehow involved in militant undertakings.
"Until 2013, Maryam Rajavi's group was designated as a terrorist organization on the United States Department of State list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations. Rudy Giuliani, John Bolton, among others were supporters of de-listing Rajavi's organizations from the designations."
We have the same problem here where we are delving into issues regarding the PMOI (or NCRI) instead of Maryam Rajavi. The PMOI (and NCRI) are not “Maryam Rajavi’s groups”. She co-heads these organizations (together with her missing husband). The issues of listing, de-listing, and political support are described in the NCRI and PMOI articles, where I think is more relevant.
"Maryam Rajavi enjoyed the support of both the Obama and Trump administrations."
The Obama and Trump administrations supported the PMOI. This is not about Maryam Rajavi explicitly.
"Massoud Rajavi, who is the co-leader of MEK and reportedly dead or missing."
This is also not about Maryam Rajavi explicitly. There is an article about Massoud Rajavi (who is also the co-leader of the NCRI) already linked in the article.
We can talk about this more. My point is that I tend to agree that the focal point of the article should be on the sources and information talking about Maryam Rajavi respectively. - MA Javadi ( talk) 17:29, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
The Paris Police claimed "that the group was planning to move its military base to France and launch terrorist attacks on Iranian targets in Europe", which caused some members of Rajavi's organizations to
set themselves ablaze.
[1]
Currently the Rajavi denied the charges
part of the "France" subsection doesn't make sense, as the charges aren't mentioned in the article. If needed, we could reword that removed part so that it's more neutral and is specifically about Maryam. I think The police claimed that the group planned to establish a base and launch attacks on Iranian targets from there.
should work.
pandakekok9 (
talk) 09:35, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
In 2018, MEK defectors accused Rajavi of helping her husband abuse female members. One of the defectors alleged that "she used to read the vows" during the marriages of Massoud and the female MEK members.
[2]
I removed a similar paragraph as that didn't seem to directly mention Maryam, but this time it does directly accuse Maryam, and I think it is relevant and should be included in the article. pandakekok9 ( talk) 09:47, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Greetings Pandakekok9: Thanks for your response too. Concerning mentioning the charges, I agree this could be good for the article. Maybe reword something like this?
The police placed the group under formal investigation on suspicion of "associating with wrongdoers in relation with a terrorist undertaking
[3]
About accusations by defectors, there is a big misinformation thing going around through alleged MEK defectors (and non-defectors [14] [15] [16]), so my suggestion would be to generally avoid claims from defectors and just stick to claims from reliable authors since this is a highly controversial article. - MA Javadi ( talk) 18:00, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The police claimed that the group planned to establish a base on France and launch attacks on Iranian targets from there.
[1] The group was then placed under formal investigation over suspicion of links to terrorism and money laundering.
[3]
What do you think? pandakekok9 ( talk) 05:20, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Twenty-four people were originally placed under formal investigation, including Maryam Rajavi, the leader of the PMOI’s political wing, the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI), on suspicion of “associating with wrongdoers in relation with a terrorist undertaking”.
She and 23 other people were investigated over suspicion of links to terrorism.
[3]
That should accurately and concisely cover what charges she was facing, and avoid having to use quotes. pandakekok9 ( talk) 04:01, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
I have tried to add these revisions, but they are being scrubbed off by edit disputes. Please see the added section below:
[START OF ADDED SECTION]
Allegations of cult or terrorism affiliation
In October 2011, Theresa May banned Rajavi from coming to Britain in a trip where she was to "explain how women are mistreated in Iran" with the stated reason of Maryam Rajavi's affiliations with terrorism. The high court then sued Theresa May, with Lord Carlile of Berriew (the Government's former independent reviewer of counter-terrorism laws) saying that May's decision "could be viewed as appeasing the Mullahs". [1] [2] However, In 2014, the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom dismissed an appeal from Lord Carlile of Berriew QC and others and upheld it to maintain the ban, which had originally been implemented in 1997. Members of the UK House of Lords argued that the Home Secretary was "violating Article 10 (freedom of expression) of the European Convention of Human Rights (the Convention)", saying that "Home Secretary’s reasons were legally irrelevant, because they depended on the potential reaction of a foreign state which did not share the values embodied in the Convention." [3] [4]
In 2020, the "Intercept" reported former group member's allegations of forced sterilization and torture by Rajavi and her husband. From the article: “I couldn’t feel whether I was alive or dead,” said Issa Azadeh, a senior operative who left the group in 2014 after 34 years. “I was thinking, ‘Did I make a mistake?’ But the first time when I got into the internet, I saw the truth. I searched about cults. I realized we were robots." [5]
In 2017, journalist, Mehdi Hasan, reported via the "Intercept" that Rajavi's financing comes from the Government of Saudi Arabia and right-wing war-hawk ideologues in the US and Europe. [6]
In November, 2018, The Guardian extensively reported terrorist affiliations and politicized de-designation from the United States Department of State list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations for Rajavi's groups. [7]
[END OF ADDED SECTION]
What are the compelling reasons for not including these very reliable sources and articles? They are not on the unreliable sources list. Why is this information all missing from this person's biography and why does it read like an advertisement for the person instead of an actual encyclopedic biography for academics to possibly utilize without suffering integrity issues over major aspects of this person missing from the BLP article? DeweyDecimalLansky ( talk) 17:47, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
@ DeweyDecimalLansky: You could also use the following source, the chapter Cultic Characteristics of the MeK for your purpose.
The subsections of this chapter are as follows:
Ghazaalch ( talk) 04:58, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
Stefka Bulgaria meetings with world leaders that generate coverage in reliable sources merit inclusion in this article. So why did you revert this? The information is well-sourced and neutrally phrased. VR talk 01:51, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
I have no intention of arguing with someone who is obviously not interested in the truth and who makes accusations without providing any proof, but for the interest of other readers and to prove that the regime lies and is running a demonization campaign against the Iranian opposition, I would like to answer the accusations.
Please, everyone reading this bear in mind that I am not myself a member of the PMOI, thus the answers I give would probably not be up to the standards of the organisation.
In response to “Didn't your organization use to kill Americans in Iran during the previous regime?”
The PMOI, (not my organisation) has never killed Americans in Iran. I understand that some 5 of 6 Americans were killed in Iran at the time of the Shah and then attributed to the Iranian opposition, however at the time the PMOI issued a statement denouncing the acts, which were later discovered to be the work of a splinter organisation, PEYKAR, who after the revolution joined Khomeini’s forces in suppressing the Iranian PMOI members, but today they are non-existent in Iran.
In response to “Were you guys not the ones who helped Khomeini come to power?”
The PMOI, (again not my organisation) fought an underground resistance against the Shah’s regime so as to free the Iranian people from tyranny. At the time Khomeini was living in France. By the time of the 1979 revolution, the entire PMOI leadership was in the Shah’s prisons, thus Khomeini was able to steal the revolution as his own and then introduced his brand of Islamic fundamentalism to suppress the Iranian people far more than the Shah did. Of course Khomeini knew that the PMOI could not be negotiated with if he were to suppress the people since they sacrificed their lives for the peoples’ freedom. Therefore most of Khomeini’s violence was directed at the PMOI, and even his number 2 man, Ayatollah Montazeri has admitted in his memoirs that in the span of only a few weeks in the summer of 1988 more than 30,000 PMOI members were executed in Khomeini’s prisons. To date Khomeini’s regime has executed over 120,000 members of the PMOI. So, I hope everyone now understands that it was not the PMOI would brought Khomeini to power. They were in prison, and when the revolution broke out Khomeini stole the momentum and pronounced himself leader, whereas before he was living in France.
In response to “Were you not involved in the takeover of the American embassy in Tehran and taking hostages?”
The PMOI never supported the regime when it took hostages in the American embassy. They gave at least a dozen statements during the 444 days denouncing the action, which in fact gave Khomeini a chance to label the Mojahedin “pro-American” and get his henchmen to attack members and supporters of the organisation.
In response to “Did you not cooperate with Saddam Hussein?”
One common charge the Iranian Ministry of Intelligence and Security (VEVAK) spreads about the PMOI is that the organisation cooperated with Saddam Hussein. After Khomeini’s regime executed tens of thousands of Mojahedin members and their supporters, the PMOI would their base to Iran-Iraq border. The Iran-Iraq war lasted from 1980-88. At the beginning, when Iraqi forces invaded Iran, the Mojahedin fought them, (ironically, while they were fighting Iraq, regime’s forces also shot at them from behind, so they really had to defend against both fronts). However in 1982, Iraq pulled its troops out of Iran, and declared a ceasefire. The Mojahedin promptly accepted a ceasefire on the grounds that over 100,000 Iranians and Iraqis had been killed in the war, however Khomeini chose not to accept the ceasefire and instead made the slogan “Capture Jerusalem through Baghdad” and continued the war for a further six years, at the end of which more than a million people were left dead. In 1986 Mojahedin set up base on the Iraqi side of the Iran-Iraq border, with the ceasefire they signed in effect. One of VEVAK’s usual claims is that PMOI cooperated with Iraq because it maintained an office in Baghdad throughout the years, however the reality is that Britain, France, Germany, Russia … all had and continue to have an embassy in Iraq, (even the Iranian regime has one there now). It makes perfect sense for an organisation on Iraqi soil to have a press office in Baghdad, and it doesn’t automatically mean that they cooperate with the regime.
In response to “Are you not cooperating with Washington now?”
The PMOI were never enemies with the United States to begin with, their only enemy is the Iranian regime which has killed over 120,000 political prisoners and tortured over 500,000. During the U.S.-led war on Iraq, the PMOI neither assisted the Americans nor the Iraqis, thus they are now protected under the 4th Geneva Convention. The other thing the PMOI have done that is really hard to swallow for the regime is that they revealed its clandestine nuclear weapons sites. The regime had not declared these to the IAEA until the Iranian opposition revealed that, and these are not my words; these are the words of the IAEA officials and George Bush who clarified it during a recent a press conference. If this person is criticizing the PMOI for revealing to the world that the regime was secretly making nuclear weapons, then I would seriously suggest that this person’s motives are extremely suspect!
In response to “Do Iranian people like you and support you?”
As an Iranian I would say the Mojahedin are supported by the vast majority of Iranians inside and outside Iran, and that is why they have so much international support too.
As I wrote in my previous post, this guy is continuously offensive and uses offending language, as one would expect from likely VEVAK agents who are there to defend a corrupt dictatorship.
Now, everyone can see that the charges this person levels are unsubstantiated and his motives are extremely suspect. For anyone wanting to learn more about the Ministry of Intelligence and Security (VEVAK) and their campaign to demonize the Iranian opposition, please take a look at this site: www.iranterror.com -- RezaKia 18:29, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Usually when regime's agents blow their cover. At first they responces make no sence, and later they start to repeat all their previous lies. Just reading the note written by this "anonymous" guy, he doesn't seem to be able to reply yet continues to revert the page to his vandalism. (Note: pretty soon, I suspect, he will start to call me a terrorist again, as he has done in the Talk section of the page Mojahedin-e Khalq.)-- RezaKia 08:01, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
"The Mujahideen organization is jointly run by husband and wife Massoud and Maryam Rajavi"[8]
"Rajavi and his wife and co-head of the organization, Maryam"[9]
"The faces of Mujahedin-e-Khalq leaders Massoud and Maryam Rajavi briefly disrupted state TV programming"[10]
"MEK leaders Massoud Rajavi and his wife, Maryam Rajavi"[11]
"The key leadership cell of the MEK fled to France … including the two primary leaders - Massoud Rajavi."[12]
Other than claims by some speculators, Massoud Rajavi going missing has not had an official impact on the leadership of the MEK as far as I know. Fad Ariff ( talk) 12:00, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
"to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article". Infoboxes, like the lead, only summarize what is in the article, and any information in the infobox should also already be in the article (except for certain technical details like maps, coordinates and other exceptions). The idea that an infobox mention of key biographical information is an excuse for not including that information in the article itself is a made-up one, contrary to the guideline and pretty contrary to common sense. As for Massoud, one would think being "missing, presumed dead" - a phrase that is repeteadly widely across reliable sources - would be a pretty severe impediment to leadership. I'm not sure how one would go about being a dead leader. 'Public face' is not the only language in sources that refer to Maryam's leadership - others simple state that she is the 'de facto' leader. Of your sources, the first two precede 2003, when Massoud disappeared; the second two are about his picture being on display, which is neither here nor there. That just leaves the US government source, which does not trump the BBC. Iskandar323 ( talk) 13:06, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Personal life: Maryam was married with Mehdi Abrishamchi, whom she divorced in 1985. She then married Massoud Rajavi."
"Massoud Rajavi hasn't been seen publicly in nearly two decades and is presumed to have died. Maryam Rajavi now runs MEK."How about you find a source that says Massoud still runs the MEK. Iskandar323 ( talk) 18:57, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
"I asked you for sources showing Massoud Rajavi isn’t part of the leadership anymore...Now you've said you're not asking for that. Then you've said there aren't sources saying he's no longer in the leadership, but those were just provided. And you've said "most sources" say something, without providing any evidence. There isn't any sense to any of this. Iskandar323 ( talk) 14:38, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
"Massoud Rajavi ... is presumed to have died. Maryam Rajavi now runs MEK."Iskandar323 ( talk) 12:30, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
"Massoud Rajavi hasn't been seen publicly in nearly two decades and is presumed to have died. Maryam Rajavi now runs MEK."[17] For anyone not totally illiterate, the meaning of this should be plain. The emphasis on "now" in particular indicating a change of circumstances. Iskandar323 ( talk) 12:18, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
"The Mujahideen organization is jointly run by husband and wife Massoud and Maryam Rajavi"[13]
"Rajavi and his wife and co-head of the organization, Maryam"[14]
"The faces of Mujahedin-e-Khalq leaders Massoud and Maryam Rajavi briefly disrupted state TV programming"[15]
"MEK leaders Massoud Rajavi and his wife, Maryam Rajavi"[16]
"The key leadership cell of the MEK fled to France … including the two primary leaders - Massoud Rajavi."[17]
Of your sources, the first two precede 2003, when Massoud disappeared; the second two are about his picture being on display, which is neither here nor there. That just leaves the US government source- that being also fairly dated at this point and exceptionally so relative to the 2022 VOA/AP source that you yourself provided. Iskandar323 ( talk) 12:28, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
"Furthermore, the assassinations of exiled Iranian political activists - including those of former Prime Minister Shahpour Bakhtiar; Kazem Rajavi, the brother of MKO Leader Masoud Rajavi"in Routledge 2017 book "The Revolutionary Guards in Iranian Politics: Elites and Shifting Relations" By Bayram Sinkaya. Fad Ariff ( talk) 12:05, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
"Masud Rajavi was (and still is) the leader of Mojahedin-e Khalq."
"Massoud Rajavi - leader of the MEK but has not been seen in public since the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq."Potomac Books publisher "Iran's Revolutionary Guard: The Threat That Grows While America Sleeps" from 2015 by Steven O'hern.
"Opposition to the Iranian regime The People's Mujahidin of Iran (mujahidin e-khalq) Leader: Massoud Rajavi (in exile in France from 1981 to 1986, then in Baghdad)."Harvard University Press book "The Iran-Iraq War" from 2015 by Pierre Razoux.
"The dominant militant force in opposition against the Islamic Republic of Iran was Mujahideen-e-Khalq (MEK). Led by a husband and wife team, Massoud and Maryam Rajavi..."Rowman & Littlefield Publishers book "Historical Dictionary of Islamic Fundamentalism" from 2017 by Mathieu Guidère.
@ User:Fad Ariff & User:Iskandar323, I came here from WP:3o when some one removed entry for becoming stale on the other hand dispute still seems being discussed. I would suggest both the users to write synopsis in 500 words limit each with links to relevant difs and refs. Bookku ( talk) 18:12, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
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Iskandar323, the marriage between Maryam and Massoud Rajavi is already mentioned in this article. There is a detailed section about the MEK going through the ideological revolution in the MEK article. If you’re interested in expanding that information, that’s the section (and article) where to do it (I will expand that section further shortly). Cherrypicking one aspect of the ideological revolution and putting it in this article would be a WP:NPOV fail. Fad Ariff ( talk) 13:13, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
Why the Revolutionary Marriage of the leader is missing here? Did it tally up with the Islamic Laws or not? In Islam women cannot re-marry for at least 90 days after divorcing the previous husband. And I understand Maryam married the new husband in a few days after her divorce! http://www.rickross.com/reference/mujahedeen/mujahedeen3.html Rajavi's meteoric ascent within the group was coupled with the dumping of her first husband and pairing off with the rugged Massoud, fuelling criticism from detractors who say the group is little more than a cult.
Also, this is not a place for exposing someone's political platforms. Excess quotations will be removed.
Looking at this talk page: the article is about a particular person. All criticism of the organization, especially about its alleged past is irrelevant and must be discussed in the page related to this organization.
Please discuss all deletions here, at talk page. Also, you have an option to create a section for criticism and opposing point of view. But wholesale reversals will not be tolerated. mikka (t) 28 June 2005 20:04 (UTC)
The page is protected against wholesale reverts while refuising explanations of deleted information.
Normally the editor who is repeatedly doing so would be blocked. I cannot do this now due to a software bug in the new release. Protection will be removed when blocking capabilities.
RezaKia, please keep in mind that this article is about the person, not about various events and her political party, and it is not a platform for her political propaganda. Her views must be explained clearly, but not with massive quotations.
I will also seriously abbreviate the descriptions of events, since such things are not normally included in people's biographies in such detail. If you have any objections, please state them here. mikka (t) 28 June 2005 22:26 (UTC)
Dear Mikka, I think you are right to shorten texts about events. To be honest I haven't been able to work extensively on improving my text since this anonymous person(s) keeps reverting it. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:53 (UTC)
Wikipedia has strict policies about copyrights; please see Wikipedia:copyrights an read carefully section about image use. Copyrighted images and images of unknown source are deleted from wikipedia. Please provide the source of the images you uploaded and their copyright status; please read Wikipedia:Image copyright tags. mikka (t) 28 June 2005 22:53 (UTC)
Thanks for blocking the vandalism.
By the way, the pictures were taken by two of my friends at the events with a private camera apart from the one from an old newspaper clipping which I scanned and the open source photo of Mrs. Rajavi at the top. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 00:49 (UTC)
Dear Mikkalai I spoke with my two friends about the pictures. They explained to me that the photos were the same open-source photos that are also available on Maryam Rajavi's website. They told me that the photographs were presented on the web and also to reporters at conferences as a handout free to be used without copyright. I am not sure where I should state this on the photo. The newspaper clipping is from the daily "Mojahed" from June 1981. Being an organisation that was outlawed by the Iranian regime in Iran, officially they could not have "copyrights" thus the scan is not illegal by any means. I only put it there however to backup the fact that half a million people demonstrated in support of the PMOI in June 1981. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:10 (UTC)
Also you will notice that I wrote the bulk of material on the page but the vandals just change the text to purposefully make it negative. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 00:50 (UTC)
I appologize to Wikipedia for having used the term vandal on the talk section of the page. I only did it because I felt that the person(s) changing the page were doing so without reason. You have said that you took a look at the talk section of the Mojahedin-e-Khalq page and I am sure you have seen them write there that they "HATE THIS GROUP". I felt that this person(s) was editting out of contempt. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:10 (UTC)
Dear Mikka, May I also suggest you take a look at the talk page in Talk:People's_Mujahedin_of_Iran -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 00:55 (UTC)
What was it? Is it described in wikipedia? mikka (t) 29 June 2005 01:52 (UTC)
The June 17 raid has not been made clear in Wikipedia which I thought ought to be. On that day in 2003 over 1,300 French anti-terrorist police in a coordinated effort raided the homes of Iranian dissidents and the offices of the National Council of Resistance of Iran. Some 165 activists including Rajavi were arrested. The French government charged that the Iranian opposition was bringing its base of operations to France though the NCRI said that the raid was conducted as part of France's appeasement policy towards Iran. In the days that followed, nearly a 1,000 oppostion supporters went on hunger strike in capitals around the world. Several supporters of the Iranian Resistance even set themselves on fire in front of French embassies in protest to the raid. The NCRI annouced within a two weeks the support of over 500 political personalities across the world, including a number of US Senators and Congressmen. One NCRI's website and Maryam Rajavi's wbsite both carry scanned copies of many of the letters written by such people. In the end on July 3, French courts ruled that the government did not have a case to hold Maryam Rajavi or any of the 165 people arrested in prison and all were release. Two years on, none have been charged and the fiasco remains a huge embarresment for the French government. The NCRI in later conferences revealed previously secret documents obtained from within the clerical regime in Iran which showed that the raid was carried out at the request of the Iranian regime. -- RezaKia 29 June 2005 07:50 (UTC)
What were the names of this woman in various times? Clearly, she was not at all "Mrs. Rajavi" during her student times and when she was married someone else. mikka (t) 1 July 2005 22:31 (UTC)
Mikki for your information, scandals are usually "secret" whereas the divorce and marriage in this case was public. If anyone researches about the issue they will note that the marriage was more for convenience since the Mojahedin believed that men and women should be treated as equals. The most prominent female Resistance member was Maryam Rajavi, who spearheaded the women's movement as is made clear in the Main article. This marriage brought her to the same level as Mojahedin leader Massoud Rajavi in the eyes of Iranians, especially those who supported the organization. Of course the Iranian regime has always tried to disrepute the Mojahedin by making this seem like some kind of "secret scandal". Though, their efforts are mainly for Western public consumption as the majority of Iranians are quite familiar with the issue. -- RezaKia 2 July 2005 19:50 (UTC)
This page is pure propaganda and should be completely changed or deleted.
"In August 1993, the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI), the Iranian Resistance's parliament, elected Maryam Rajavi as Iran's future president for the transitional period following the mullahs' overthrow."
They elected the entire government of future iran for themselfs.
Despite their arrogance and the huge amount of money and weapons they recieved from saddam, they did nothing to reach their despicable goals. The only thing they were good at was setting themselfs on fire to protest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkred ( talk • contribs) 03:30, 20 April 2006 (UTC)