![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 2 May 2008. The result of the discussion was speedy delete. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Please see Talk:Family of Barack Obama#Malia Obama article for recent discussion about keeping this as redirect; also see Wikipedia: Articles for deletion/Malia Obama for earlier review. Nothing new has been added to justify the creation of a separate article, and no indication of why Malia and not Sasha - these children are not independently notable and they are amply and more appropriately covered in the Family article at this time. Please discuss at the Family talk page so we can keep discussion in one place. Thanks Tvoz/ talk 20:45, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
In May 2008, Malia was merely a daughter of a candidate. Now many sources have written articles about her as the main topic and only mention President Obama in passing (making him the non-notable person in such article). Furthermore, she is now the First Daughter, another sign of her increased notability.
One confounding factor is that President Obama does not want the press to become paparazzi. But we are only reporting reliable and upright sources (or we should).
The May 2008 delete discussion is old and no longer applies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by October 22 2009 ( talk • contribs) 03:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
You are incorrect, Republican. None of your arguments are compelling, convincing, or correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by October 22 2009 ( talk • contribs) 04:11, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Subject is significant enough for her own article now.-- Milowent ( talk) 04:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
The top yellow box says "Please review the prior discussion if you are considering re-nomination"
So if you want to cause trouble and renominate, review the prior discussion first. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by October 22 2009 ( talk • contribs) 04:17, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
.... at the usual Wrong Version™, due to edit-warring. Guys, please resolve this on the talk page - Alison ❤ 07:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Can count myself and probably RJ, per his comments above, as !votes to maintain the redirect. I haven't seen any new discussion on why Malia needs her own article other than "other Presidential kids have them" which is not convincing. What content would be added to a Malia-only article that isn't already included on the Family article? -- guyzero | talk 18:54, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Any notability that Malia and Sasha Obama currently have, stems from their relationship with Barack Obama. The existence of separate news articles about them is immaterial since those articles are still a result of that same relationship. New Wikipedia articles should result from genuinely independent notability, not simply that news coverage of the Obama family is voluminous enough to have forked into multiple news articles. Wikipedia is not a Google mirror and it is similarly not a mirror of the news media. Therefore, Malia and Sasha should stay redirected to this page.
Under the Obama article probation, admins monitoring this situation should consider sanctions against editors who tendentiously attempt to create separate articles, such as by wikilawyering over the contents of the notability guideline. The existence of separate wiki articles about now-deceased children of historical presidents is also undispository, because of the heightened scrutiny that we should give to BLP's, especially to BLP's about minors, and doubly especially to BLP's of minors who are (through no action of their own) part of a BATTLEGROUND topic, and triply especially when that topic is under content probation in Wikipedia. 69.228.171.150 ( talk) 23:16, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Despite the sense of the editors on this page and at Talk: Family of Barack Obama, once again this has been brought to yet another forum. Comments requested at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Malia Obama. Tvoz/ talk 09:21, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
I am really surprised that there is not an article on Malia. She is frequently in the news. Her dog has an article. I can see that one stumbling block is that President Obama has said that he doesn't want the press to write about her but I don't think that is a prohibition that we have to follow. Of course, we can either follow it and give the man some respect or we can come up with some fake excuses to cover up the true reason (respect for the President).
I recommend eventually to have an article but that's up to someone else as I wouldn't know where to start to write one. Brenda of accounting ( talk) 00:42, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
This article is really a stub but give it time. Please do not make excuses for deletion or redirect. Some mistakely think the President wants a news blackout on Malia so they think of excuse to support the President and not have this article. This is not the truth since the President does bring up Malia, like in the oil spill.
Bo, the dog, has an article that survived deletion so that shows that Malia qualifies for an article. Presidentmalia ( talk) 15:57, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
There needs to be an article. Seems like there are lawyer-type excuses to try to justify not having it. Please have an article.
Thanks, Hilda —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.9.74.3 ( talk) 14:51, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
I agree with others that there should be a full article here. She was perhaps non-notable in early 2008 when her father was merely a presidential candidate. But since then she's been the daughter of a president for 3 years. Lots and lots of press coverage focusing entirely on her and her sister has accumulated in that time. The people insisting that "notability isn't inherited" seem to believe that anyone who's known primarily as the relative of a famous person is thereby precluded from notability. But this is nonsense, as demonstrated by the existence of a wikipedia page for the Obama dog.
What I suspect is really going on is people are squeamish about subjecting a minor to unwanted scrutiny. But this is silly, because Wikipedia is just a small fraction of the attention she gets from other outlets. Binarybits ( talk) 01:57, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Here is some insight into why we may not have reliable sources on the subject.
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
link)-- Petri Krohn ( talk) 20:38, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
A few points are worth noting here. Firstly, the guidelines that Talc suggests demonstrate that we should not have an article here are weak. BLP1E doesn't apply here, because the Obamas aren't famous for one event - they are the subjects of continuing and sustained news coverage. And WP:NOTINHERITED is neither a policy nor a guideline - it's an essay. It has no weight. It should not be Wikipedia's job to decide whether press coverage and other coverage in reliable sources is only being given because of who a person's family is. Not having articles on celebrity babies is totally fine - the attention to them really is adjunct to the attention to their parents. But once you get past that, coverage is coverage, and there's tons and tons of press coverage of the Obama children. Secondly, the actual issue here is pretty clearly not this "notability is not inherited" business. Because we have numerous articles on presidential children who haven't really done anything "notable in their own right." Barbara Bush (daughter), Amy Carter, John Gardner Ford, Marvin Bush. Nobody seems to have a problem with these articles. Amy Carter is a good model here, because she was a child when her father was president. She's been in the news a bit since, but not really because what she was doing was of intrinsic interest. But she is obviously notable. She had tons of press coverage during her father's presidency. The difference here is not that Amy Carter is really more notable than the Obama girls. They are all basically well-known because they are daughters of the president. The key difference is that she is an adult, and the Obama girls are not.
But there's no policy saying that notable children should not have articles about them to protect their privacy. Perhaps there should be, I don't know. But there isn't, and as such, I don't see why it would be inappropriate to have articles on Malia and Sasha that contain well-sourced information about them from reliable sources, especially since that information is already on Wikipedia anyway. john k ( talk) 13:56, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Categorization Please add Category:1998 births, Category:Children of Presidents of the United States, Category:Obama family, Category:People from Chicago, and Category:Sidwell Friends School alumni. — Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 22:54, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
Please add Category:University of Chicago Laboratory Schools alumni. FallingGravity ( talk) 16:38, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
. Please add rcat tag {{
R to section}}
.
Si Trew (
talk) 07:59, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
{{rcat shell|{{R from member}}|{{R to section}}}}
. @
SimonTrew: what do you reckon? -
CHAMPION (
talk) (
contributions) (
logs) 08:05, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
{{
Rcat shell}}
is just unnecessary overhead. However {{
R from member}}
is probably a good idea.
Si Trew (
talk) 08:10, 4 December 2016 (UTC)Please also add {{
R to section}}
, {{
R from member}}
and {{
R from unnecessary disambiguation}}
to
Malia Obama (First Daughter). The talk page of that page has been edit-protected, which is perhaps a little heavy-handed. That R is currently at
WP:RFD, but it can be rcatted without prejudice in the meantime: no harm comes of it if it's deleted or kept, and if it's retargeted then the person retargeting presumably will recategorise when doing so; but if it's left to the close of the discussion it's often forgotten.
Si Trew (
talk) 08:10, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
she's notable for being Barack Obama's daughter, one of the most famous men in the world, no reason why she shouldn't have her own article at this point. Kingofthedead ( talk) 22:22, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Please add Category:Living people. Lettler hello • contribs 03:21, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 2 May 2008. The result of the discussion was speedy delete. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Please see Talk:Family of Barack Obama#Malia Obama article for recent discussion about keeping this as redirect; also see Wikipedia: Articles for deletion/Malia Obama for earlier review. Nothing new has been added to justify the creation of a separate article, and no indication of why Malia and not Sasha - these children are not independently notable and they are amply and more appropriately covered in the Family article at this time. Please discuss at the Family talk page so we can keep discussion in one place. Thanks Tvoz/ talk 20:45, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
In May 2008, Malia was merely a daughter of a candidate. Now many sources have written articles about her as the main topic and only mention President Obama in passing (making him the non-notable person in such article). Furthermore, she is now the First Daughter, another sign of her increased notability.
One confounding factor is that President Obama does not want the press to become paparazzi. But we are only reporting reliable and upright sources (or we should).
The May 2008 delete discussion is old and no longer applies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by October 22 2009 ( talk • contribs) 03:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
You are incorrect, Republican. None of your arguments are compelling, convincing, or correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by October 22 2009 ( talk • contribs) 04:11, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Subject is significant enough for her own article now.-- Milowent ( talk) 04:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
The top yellow box says "Please review the prior discussion if you are considering re-nomination"
So if you want to cause trouble and renominate, review the prior discussion first. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by October 22 2009 ( talk • contribs) 04:17, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
.... at the usual Wrong Version™, due to edit-warring. Guys, please resolve this on the talk page - Alison ❤ 07:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Can count myself and probably RJ, per his comments above, as !votes to maintain the redirect. I haven't seen any new discussion on why Malia needs her own article other than "other Presidential kids have them" which is not convincing. What content would be added to a Malia-only article that isn't already included on the Family article? -- guyzero | talk 18:54, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Any notability that Malia and Sasha Obama currently have, stems from their relationship with Barack Obama. The existence of separate news articles about them is immaterial since those articles are still a result of that same relationship. New Wikipedia articles should result from genuinely independent notability, not simply that news coverage of the Obama family is voluminous enough to have forked into multiple news articles. Wikipedia is not a Google mirror and it is similarly not a mirror of the news media. Therefore, Malia and Sasha should stay redirected to this page.
Under the Obama article probation, admins monitoring this situation should consider sanctions against editors who tendentiously attempt to create separate articles, such as by wikilawyering over the contents of the notability guideline. The existence of separate wiki articles about now-deceased children of historical presidents is also undispository, because of the heightened scrutiny that we should give to BLP's, especially to BLP's about minors, and doubly especially to BLP's of minors who are (through no action of their own) part of a BATTLEGROUND topic, and triply especially when that topic is under content probation in Wikipedia. 69.228.171.150 ( talk) 23:16, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Despite the sense of the editors on this page and at Talk: Family of Barack Obama, once again this has been brought to yet another forum. Comments requested at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Malia Obama. Tvoz/ talk 09:21, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
I am really surprised that there is not an article on Malia. She is frequently in the news. Her dog has an article. I can see that one stumbling block is that President Obama has said that he doesn't want the press to write about her but I don't think that is a prohibition that we have to follow. Of course, we can either follow it and give the man some respect or we can come up with some fake excuses to cover up the true reason (respect for the President).
I recommend eventually to have an article but that's up to someone else as I wouldn't know where to start to write one. Brenda of accounting ( talk) 00:42, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
This article is really a stub but give it time. Please do not make excuses for deletion or redirect. Some mistakely think the President wants a news blackout on Malia so they think of excuse to support the President and not have this article. This is not the truth since the President does bring up Malia, like in the oil spill.
Bo, the dog, has an article that survived deletion so that shows that Malia qualifies for an article. Presidentmalia ( talk) 15:57, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
There needs to be an article. Seems like there are lawyer-type excuses to try to justify not having it. Please have an article.
Thanks, Hilda —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.9.74.3 ( talk) 14:51, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
I agree with others that there should be a full article here. She was perhaps non-notable in early 2008 when her father was merely a presidential candidate. But since then she's been the daughter of a president for 3 years. Lots and lots of press coverage focusing entirely on her and her sister has accumulated in that time. The people insisting that "notability isn't inherited" seem to believe that anyone who's known primarily as the relative of a famous person is thereby precluded from notability. But this is nonsense, as demonstrated by the existence of a wikipedia page for the Obama dog.
What I suspect is really going on is people are squeamish about subjecting a minor to unwanted scrutiny. But this is silly, because Wikipedia is just a small fraction of the attention she gets from other outlets. Binarybits ( talk) 01:57, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Here is some insight into why we may not have reliable sources on the subject.
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
link)-- Petri Krohn ( talk) 20:38, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
A few points are worth noting here. Firstly, the guidelines that Talc suggests demonstrate that we should not have an article here are weak. BLP1E doesn't apply here, because the Obamas aren't famous for one event - they are the subjects of continuing and sustained news coverage. And WP:NOTINHERITED is neither a policy nor a guideline - it's an essay. It has no weight. It should not be Wikipedia's job to decide whether press coverage and other coverage in reliable sources is only being given because of who a person's family is. Not having articles on celebrity babies is totally fine - the attention to them really is adjunct to the attention to their parents. But once you get past that, coverage is coverage, and there's tons and tons of press coverage of the Obama children. Secondly, the actual issue here is pretty clearly not this "notability is not inherited" business. Because we have numerous articles on presidential children who haven't really done anything "notable in their own right." Barbara Bush (daughter), Amy Carter, John Gardner Ford, Marvin Bush. Nobody seems to have a problem with these articles. Amy Carter is a good model here, because she was a child when her father was president. She's been in the news a bit since, but not really because what she was doing was of intrinsic interest. But she is obviously notable. She had tons of press coverage during her father's presidency. The difference here is not that Amy Carter is really more notable than the Obama girls. They are all basically well-known because they are daughters of the president. The key difference is that she is an adult, and the Obama girls are not.
But there's no policy saying that notable children should not have articles about them to protect their privacy. Perhaps there should be, I don't know. But there isn't, and as such, I don't see why it would be inappropriate to have articles on Malia and Sasha that contain well-sourced information about them from reliable sources, especially since that information is already on Wikipedia anyway. john k ( talk) 13:56, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Categorization Please add Category:1998 births, Category:Children of Presidents of the United States, Category:Obama family, Category:People from Chicago, and Category:Sidwell Friends School alumni. — Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 22:54, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
Please add Category:University of Chicago Laboratory Schools alumni. FallingGravity ( talk) 16:38, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
. Please add rcat tag {{
R to section}}
.
Si Trew (
talk) 07:59, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
{{rcat shell|{{R from member}}|{{R to section}}}}
. @
SimonTrew: what do you reckon? -
CHAMPION (
talk) (
contributions) (
logs) 08:05, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
{{
Rcat shell}}
is just unnecessary overhead. However {{
R from member}}
is probably a good idea.
Si Trew (
talk) 08:10, 4 December 2016 (UTC)Please also add {{
R to section}}
, {{
R from member}}
and {{
R from unnecessary disambiguation}}
to
Malia Obama (First Daughter). The talk page of that page has been edit-protected, which is perhaps a little heavy-handed. That R is currently at
WP:RFD, but it can be rcatted without prejudice in the meantime: no harm comes of it if it's deleted or kept, and if it's retargeted then the person retargeting presumably will recategorise when doing so; but if it's left to the close of the discussion it's often forgotten.
Si Trew (
talk) 08:10, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
she's notable for being Barack Obama's daughter, one of the most famous men in the world, no reason why she shouldn't have her own article at this point. Kingofthedead ( talk) 22:22, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Please add Category:Living people. Lettler hello • contribs 03:21, 26 December 2021 (UTC)