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I am surprised that there is mention of only one instance of Mahatir's anti-semitism. Throughout his time as Prime Minister he made many offensive and anti-semitic statements. This should at least be noted in the intro. He was not just anti-Israel, but rather quite racist against jews. Xtra 01:26, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
I have removed a number of editorial comments, attributed to anonymous "critics" in violation of WP:AWT. If such "critics" actually exist, they should be identified appropriately in a section entitled "criticism," which is the standard format for biographical articles. I would ask Xtra and Willmcw to avoid inserting their POV in this article, and the use of Weasel Terms is symptomatic of that. I also removed " American individualism" as a counterpole to Asian values -- there is no school of economics called "American individualism." It's a novel, POV usage, and unless there is a specific source for it, it should go. Asian values are clearly in opposition to laissez-faire capitalism. -- HK 07:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Also, I have inserted no POV into this article. Check my edits HK. My edits are have not at any stage been POV insertion. However, removing even handed comment is POV. Xtra 09:25, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
www.heureka.clara.net/sunrise/anwar.htm
I have no problem with creating a "criticism" section, where the criticisms are properly attributed. However, putting the criticism anonymously in the intro creates the impression that these criticisms are universally shared, an explicit violation of WP:AWT. Also note that neither Xtra nor Willmcw have responded to my request that some justification be offered for "Asian values vs. American Individualism," a specious and incompetent argument. -- HK 03:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Under your arbitration ruling HK, you are not permited to repetedly delete text from articles to push your POV. I ask you to stop or I will be forced to take this matter up with an admin. Xtra 03:38, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
NPOV does require that we include all POVs -- wouldn't it be great if that were actually put into practice? -- but also requires that the POVs be sourced and verifiable. If a POV is simple baldly asserted as fact, i.e., "State-directed or dirigist economies are authoritarian," the reader is being asked to assume that the idea is universally accepted, which it is not.
Try to imagine this controversy as seen through the eyes of a non-WASP, the sort of non-WASP who would be unlikely to ever get published in the New Republic. The Western press employs a sort of Orwellian double-speak, where when the IMF is demanding genocidal reductions in the living standards of a Third World nation, they call it reform, where the looting of vulnerable economies is called free trade and sometimes even democracy, and where the practice of attempting to defend one's economy via Protectionism is always characterized as authoritarian. -- HK 23:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
If the sentence "He has been a very aggressive proponent of " Asian values" a form of authoritarian state-led capitalism" were modified to become "He has been a very aggressive proponent of " Asian values," a form of allegedly authoritarian state-led capitalism," I would consider that to be sufficiently NPOV and would move to unprotect. -- HK 21:29, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Please work this out. Use dispute resolution if need be. -- Woohookitty (cat scratches) 23:55, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
I've unprotected this page - please do not resort to revert wars if you still don't see eye to eye over everything. If there is a dispute, try one of the established dispute resolution procedures. Thanks. Izehar 12:56, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Attn. 68.48.23.45: the issue of whether Dr. Mahathir is an anti-semite is disputed. It is a matter of opinion, not verifiable fact, and therefore we must use language that reflects that. I changed your formulation to "Mahathir is regarded by many as an anti-semite." I hope that is satisfactory to you, but if it is not, you should discuss it on this page before reverting. -- HK 21:41, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
What is meant by this sentence? Which policies are these? - Will Beback 08:26, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Anwar Ibrahim's proposals are already discussed in various places, such:
So there's no need to be coy about his reform proposals. Let's just say his reform proposals were supported by Gore. Either name the "Western factions" or leave them out. - Will Beback 07:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I've changed western into IMF and some policies into rate hikes. I hope that helps in disfussing the this little disagreement. But I disagree about Anwar being painted as one of the good guys. He was as corrupt as the other. He obviously had the most to gain with the IMF demanded "reforms". __earth ( Talk) 09:11, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Many of the additions by Terrancommander are not factually accurate or in compliance with Wikipedia policy. We cannot speculate on Mahathir's motives for considering himself a "full Malay" without a source; it is original research otherwise. There is no policy requiring a Malay to be PM. The issue of Mahathir's relationship with his alma mater and Singapore appears to be a novel interpretation of events under our original research policy; could we have a source, please? "It must be noted" sounds biased, so I reworded it. The bridge was not vetoed by a "Malaysian majority". The government cancelled the project, citing opposition from the people. If anything, Mahathir appears to believe the majority supports him, since he is calling for a referendum on the bridge. The "deep down" is a "racist" remark was uncalled for and is clearly biased. The same goes for the "rude" and "Islamic radical" comments. Johnleemk | Talk 17:49, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Some video of Mahathir joking about bombing singapore [9]-- Paul E. Ester 04:17, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
This sounds POV to me: The Australian penchant for telling its neighbours what to do is clearly a sticking point. and no references or citiations are provided. I'm going to get rid of it, unless there are some reasons not to. -- Commking 04:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Someone should add info on the chemical spray incident Nil Einne 07:46, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
These were a startling omission. I think the record is served by including them. -- Rostov 19:47, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I must hand it to the contributor(s) of this wikipedia entry. This is truly an astonishing whitewash. Mohamad, throughout his years as P.M. of Malaysia, was on record attacking Jews and almost any action Israel took on the world stage (war-related or otherwise). His remarks helped make anti-Semitism respectable among "moderate" Muslims worldwide and throughout SE Asia. Wikipedia's downplaying of the issue makes this so-called e-encyclopedia more similar than it would like to admit to the EB, which for decades (centuries) downplayed anti-Semitism or allowed it to flourish in that oh-so-urbane and proper British manner; you know, "we despise the Jews but we don't want them to be exterminated, and we're circumspect about it, not like those beastly Germans." I find this entire bio of Mohamad shameful and despicable. If you can't find the source quotes you haven't looked very hard, which makes me question your skills as encyclopedists. This incidentally is my first post on anything Wikipedia-related. Sincerely, Mackb
Friday, August 18, 2006 The word “anti-Semite” is it’s self a loaded term and causes problems with POV. It has been stated early in this article that he is controversial and outspoken. That having been said I believe that the more fair approach to dealing with a very important leader in Malaysian history would to be to focus on what he said and did without labeling or attributing motive and allow the reader to come to their own conclusions and make their own value judgments. Without objection there are a few lines in this article that I would like to clean up for grammar and readability but I will not touch POV issues at this time except to make some recommendations in this discussion.
Saturday Sept 16, 2006 The fact that Dr M uses the media effectively to point out the countless double-standards and hypocrisies prevalent in Europe is taken as an example of "anti-semitism". If Austria can have laws which prohibit criticism of one particular race of people, how is it considered "free speech" when public leaders using dubious 14th Century references criticise the respected leader of another world community? The Jewish community is possibly the only beneficiary of affirmative action on a global basis simply by using this "anti-semitism" stance. Nothing against them, they have had, as Dr M pointed out as reported in these web pages, 2000 years of learning to do that. But it is extremely hypocritical to try to eat the cake and have it too. I think this article on Dr M is pretty well-balanced and has reflected the story of a man in as much entirety as is possible, warts and all. Let us not try to muzzle Wikipedia editors with this misplaced protectionism. Reader58 21:44, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
This seems more a testament to your own views about Jews than anything else. Austria's legal code attacks hate speech in general, and recognizes anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial as intrinsically hate speech. The principles behind these same codes offer protection to Muslim immigrants from the Middle East. These were the products of Austria's own experience, not anything done by Jews (very few of whom remain in Austria). Your anger about Benedict is ill-suited to the discussion here. -- Rostov 18:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Pauline Hanson was a former member of the Liberal party, and while her One Nation party had no direct connection with John Howard's party, it was widely perceived in Australia and elsewhere to be tacitly condoned by Howard
Absolute crap. There has never been any indication that John Howard supported Pauline Hanson. The idea is absurd. References please, or it's going to get wiped. -- Commking 07:39, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Today some edits occurred to this section in the article. There seems to be a dispute over whether or not Dr. M said this or that. As there are no references for any of this stuff, I am giving this oppurtunity for the anonymous contributor concerned to provide them. If not, I'll wipe it. -- Commking 03:35, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Usually, it's AD, not ad. It needs to be capital. Moveover, CE is a better option since it's neutral. In anyway, you don't need to add AD behind every year because the context is very clear. See other biographical pages. __earth ( Talk) 15:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Who said that there is no response? '~'? Saudara Hafiz aka Earth, I do appreciate your consideration about that subject matter with your "helpful"-cum-good-faith edits over that Wiki-article but and however before should you tamper, alter, or even change anything particularly onto that "Garis Masa" thing, kindly please wait and be patient enough to allow myself to finish up the several last years of Mahathir's lifetime from the article's section of "Chronology". Only until then will I come here to discuss to you further on rationally, sensibly, and reasonably regarding of your views and opinions towards all of the year formats arising from that section right after or once I have done/completed with that Tun Mahathir's timeline-editing job. As for the time being, try not to do/interfere anything with that aforementioned section when the next time you arrive here again whilst I am currently trying out my best to carry on or continue with my unfinished/unaccomplished work on that stuff. Thank you. -- onWheeZierPLot 20:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I propose that this article be divided into several smaller sections, since it is quite long an unwieldy. Possibly, we could move most of the foreign policy material into a new article, Foreign Policy of the Mahathir administration.
The political machine section, however, I feel is much more directly relevant to the legacy of the Mahathir administration, so I feel it is more important to keep that section in this article as is.
Also, I think that the chronology section should be removed, as Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, which is currently what that section is. Perhaps some of the content could be incorporated into the rest of the article. 129.170.202.3 10:19, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following statement
It was unsourced and as a Malaysian I don't believe it's an accurate assesement of the public belief either Nil Einne 14:59, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I, however, support that statement. I am a Malaysian but I do not support the degenerating education levels in Malaysia. The contents of secondary education are getting simpler. Mastery and fluency of speech in English is getting worse. In the tertiary level, Malaysia's participation in research is not enough. Wai Hong 16:39, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Under Mahathir administration, there little cultural development compare to the economic progress. There is no significant literature writing/novel produce during Mahathir administration. Nor there is any form of cultural interchange between various race in Malaysia.
No many critics taking Mahathir from the angle of cultural development. More work must be done as this is the serious flaw of Mahathir, which is comparable with other political leader which suppress cultural development and lead to nation destruction.
-- Sltan 12:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Can we work towards getting rid of the POV tag on the article? What parts of the artictle are still considered POV? Chovain 22:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure. Wai Hong 16:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I have readded the {{ POV}} tag, as well as an {{ unreferenced}} tag. The 'Legacy' section is especially bad. - SpL o T // 10:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I have placed {{ fact}} tags at all locations needing some form of attribution. On another note, the article does not have specific references for specific points, which is why I did not indiscriminately use {{ fact}} when I didn't doubt accuracy. Furthermore, the article at some parts goes out of point; for example, the bit about Anwar and PAS goes on and on without concentrating on Mahathir's role in the issue. Nearly an entire paragraph on the Anwar issue seems to have been copied from the Politics section to the United States Relations section. This same section describes the bilateral relations as both 'stormy' and 'strong'. The section on speculation is rather awkward as well. Lede is quite short too, but that can be done later on when (hopefully) this article gets to GA. The timeline is way too lengthy, and should be split. More pressingly, I have quoted each somewhat POV sentence to scrutinise here:
Somehow, with this article, the many unsourced statements also lead to POV problems. - SpL o T // 14:31, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
we might need to add a section on his family. His children are quite well-known personalities in Malaysia. __earth ( Talk) 15:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I propose to merge Galeria Sri Perdana into this article. Galeria Sri Perdana does not seem to be notable in itself, at least not by the current state of that article. Actually the relevant information in that article seems to be that Galeria Sri Perdana was the residence of Mahathir bin Mohamad. Thus I am proposing to merge the content into here. (In fact, if you support that, just go ahead and merge the articles.)
Proposed as part of the Notability wikiproject. -- B. Wolterding 16:03, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
The Galeria Sri Perdana was the official residence of the fourth Prime Minister of Malaysia, Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad from 23 August 1983 to 18 October 1999. During this period, it was known as Sri Perdana. In keeping with the principle of heritage conservation, the original design and layout of the Sri Perdana has been preserved and Galeria Sri Perdana symbolises the nation's indebtedness to the Tun for 22 years of his dedicated and selfless service to the nation. On display are the: Main Lounge where many important official and family gatherings took place. The decorative design on the walls reflects the artistic tradition of the local Malay woodcarving; Wood Carving Room where the Tun took part in his favourite pastime. The woodcarving machine and appliances, as well as examples of the Tun's own work are displayed here; Theatre where up to 32 people can now view a documentary depicting a typical day in the life of the Prime Minister; Reading Room where a collection of reading and reference materials are kept. The Tun used this room when writing many of his speeches; Green House an idea insired by the Tun himself. It houses a variety of plants under controlled temperatures.
Jalan Damansara Kuala Lumpur: Open Tues-Sun 10am-5pm; Fri 10am-noon and 3pm-5:30pm.
Ref: KL Welcome Guide April 2006 p32
Could anyone please explain the two different birthdates cited -December 20 and July 10? Which is correct? Most sources on the Internet says December 20.
Swedish Wiki user:Belairroad
[10] June 6 2007 15:18 (CET)
Is this really necessary? I don't see many other political biographies with a timeline, and it takes up a whopping third of the article length on my screen. It also serves as somewhat of an excuse for shoddy writing, since people stick relevant information (e.g. his children, family, etc.) into the timeline instead of the article body. Johnleemk | Talk 19:10, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Despite months to do so, no source was provided on the cronyism allegations. Wikipedia is not the place for opinion or baseless accusations. Graham Wellington 20:43, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think this is a good idea. Criticism sections are an easy way out of integrating the criticism into the article, and become a slipshod way of accumulating libel and other allegations in one lumped-up section. As it stands, the entire section really could go into the economic policy section. Criticism that is relevant to a particular section should go in there, and not be lumped into a general criticism section. I have rarely seen such sections which read well, particularly in political articles. Johnleemk | Talk 21:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
DumZiBoT ( talk) 00:43, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
"No mention of Mahathir's Indian Muslim background ever appears in the media. The subject is taboo," says Prospect Magazine. So now that the air is clear as to why it is so difficult to get information on Mahathir's background, I suggest we end the debate here. Say some more and we may well become the guest of the Malaysian government later tonight, LOL. — PM Poon ( talk) 07:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Who is this Philip Bowring character - and why does he so want people to believe Dr. M had an Indian father? Both sources that claim Dr. M's father of being born in India are from him. One is his blog (quoted above) and the other the prospect magazine link above where he is the author. 60.54.34.181 ( talk) 05:08, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
Since it wasn't sourced, and it appears we don't even know his ancestry, I changed the pseudo-Arabic pronunciation of his name to something more Malay. If it's a mistake, please restore--preferably with a source there or an explanation here. kwami ( talk) 14:14, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. -- Mkativerata ( talk) 20:25, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/6/21/nation/21617618&sec=nation. and other sources. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Mkativerata ( talk) 20:32, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
Mahathir bin Mohamad → Mahathir Mohamad — per WP:COMMONNAME. The overwhelming English usage is to drop the "bin", which most Malays drop in everyday usage as well. For example, there are 8750 google book hits with "bin", but 34,500 without it. News sources have an even starker difference: 791 with, 27,800 without. See for example the BBC profile. [12] WP:COMMONNAME implores us to follow these English language sources. Mkativerata ( talk) 04:14, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
I just want to let anyone who is interested in this article know that over the next few weeks/months I'm planning to on some improvements to it in my userpsace ( here). I think everyone can agree this article isn't up to scratch and I think it needs a focused wholesale effort to improve it. I'd be very grateful for input, help, comments, etc. -- Mkativerata ( talk) 19:36, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Mkativerata, you have deleted multiple edits by various people (deleting views of pluralisms) and changed it to a singularity of your own view, though perhaps you never have close encounter with the subject and never comprehend him. Huayi ( talk) 05:12, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Dr. Mahathir has recently caused a stir by acknowledging that there is strong evidence that 9/11 was staged: http://911blogger.com/node/22428
The article should be updated to include this information (with an NPOV on the subject as to whether 9/11 was in fact staged or not).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.11.186.64 ( talk • contribs) 01:54, 22 January 2010
Mahathir is a CIA agent. Mahathir is a Bilderberg member too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.120.185.171 ( talk) 15:00, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
The official d.o.b. is 20 Dec 1925. In his recently published book, A Doctor in the House: The memoirs on Tun Dr Mahathir, Mahathir stated that his real d.o.b. is 10 July 1925, but his father put 20 December on the birth certificate in order to simplify age calculation for entry into school. It was common to have two birth dates at that time. 203.82.94.73 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:26, 11 July 2011 (UTC).
Why so much fuss about it? Just because he has some Indian Muslim ancestry doesn't make him a Mamak. What most people seem to forget is that his ancestry is 75% Malay and 25% Indian. He's through and through a Malay with regard to language, culture, upbringing, values etc. Yet when I browse through the Opposition's blogs, they hype his Indian ancestry as if everything about him is Indian. Why do they do that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.48.207.47 ( talk) 04:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Someone with good faith should always protect this Article. At the height of Malaysian political heat (since the general election is coming very soon), a lot of bad-minded persons would love to vandalize it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.171.98.172 ( talk) 00:25, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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A very nitpicky request, but could the large template on the top of the page be reduced to the small silver lock? It's a highly visited page (especially heading into a general election) and it would be a pity to have an article in quite reasonable shape obscured by a large template that readers don't need to see. Cheers.-- Mkativerata ( talk) 10:24, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
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The article should not be a member of Category:Malaysian physicists since its subject is a physician, not a physicist. — HHHIPPO 11:36, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
For the Foreign Relations -> Singapore section, can the following be added? Feel free to shorten.
Zhanzhao ( talk) 08:28, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
References
Foreign relations section...
Currently reads:
[...] During Mahathir's term, Malaysia's relationship with the West was generally fine despite his being known as an outspoken critic towards it.[77] Early during his tenure, a small disagreement with the United Kingdom over university tuition fees sparked a boycott of all British goods led by Mahathir, in what became known as the "Buy British Last" campaign. It also led to a search for development models in Asia, most notably Japan. This was the beginning of his famous "Look East Policy".[78] Although the dispute was later resolved by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, Mahathir continued to emphasize Asian development models over contemporary Western ones... he particularly criticized the double standards of Western nations[79]
Suggest addition at the end.
In 2013, Mahathir was invited to the funeral of Margaret Thatcher. Decisions about who to invite were made by her family in consultation with the British Government. [1]
Reason:
I think it is a minor point, but shows that the working relationship between Mahathir and the British Premiere remained positive / respectful even after their retirements. If this article were not protected, I would just ahve added it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.5.163.57 ( talk) 13:22, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
References
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Please remove "Dr." from the lead sentence in accordance with WP:Credential. Thank you, Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 10:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
The article is tagged for neutrality dispute, but there does not seem to be an active discussion on the talk page. Should the tag be removed? Joe Bodacious ( talk) 14:28, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
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Hi all,
I'm reading "Tunku: An Odyssey of a Life Well-Lived and Well-Loved" by Kobkua Suwannathat Pian (2017), where it is mentioned (pg 4) that the headmaster of Tunku's English medium school was one Mohamad Iskandar, father of Mahathir. It's an interesting factoid, but I wasn't sure how to slot it in in the "Childhood and medical career" section, since the part pertaining to Dr M's parentage seems to be making the point that he was the only PM not with a politically connected background.
Would be cool if this made it into the article somehow, it's an interesting bit of trivia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.101.153.34 ( talk) 01:40, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
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Dr Mahathir just won the elections a second time and will be sworn today or tomorrow so what are plans for adding this info? Ihavealovelycat ( talk) 05:27, 10 May 2018 (UTC) Ihavealovelycat ( talk) 05:27, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
When a prime minister is re-appointed after an absence from office, he or she retains the position number of their first appointment. This convention may be seen in the following articles:
There are many other such examples. Thus, Mahathir will always retain his position as the 4th PM. If, as mooted, Anwar succeeds Mahathir, then Anwar will be the 7th PM. WWGB ( talk) 02:10, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
I thought so too, but Mohamad has widely been reported as the "7th prime minister".
https://www.google.com/search?q=%227th+Prime+Minister%22+%22mahathir+mohamad%22 His official Twitter describes him as the 7th prime minister.
https://twitter.com/chedetofficial
Ivar the Boneful (
talk) 14:25, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Given that a timeline of his first 100 days in office has been deleted, perhaps it might be wise to create a timeline of his whole term in office in a separate article? Zubin12 ( talk) 10:59, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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I am surprised that there is mention of only one instance of Mahatir's anti-semitism. Throughout his time as Prime Minister he made many offensive and anti-semitic statements. This should at least be noted in the intro. He was not just anti-Israel, but rather quite racist against jews. Xtra 01:26, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
I have removed a number of editorial comments, attributed to anonymous "critics" in violation of WP:AWT. If such "critics" actually exist, they should be identified appropriately in a section entitled "criticism," which is the standard format for biographical articles. I would ask Xtra and Willmcw to avoid inserting their POV in this article, and the use of Weasel Terms is symptomatic of that. I also removed " American individualism" as a counterpole to Asian values -- there is no school of economics called "American individualism." It's a novel, POV usage, and unless there is a specific source for it, it should go. Asian values are clearly in opposition to laissez-faire capitalism. -- HK 07:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Also, I have inserted no POV into this article. Check my edits HK. My edits are have not at any stage been POV insertion. However, removing even handed comment is POV. Xtra 09:25, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
www.heureka.clara.net/sunrise/anwar.htm
I have no problem with creating a "criticism" section, where the criticisms are properly attributed. However, putting the criticism anonymously in the intro creates the impression that these criticisms are universally shared, an explicit violation of WP:AWT. Also note that neither Xtra nor Willmcw have responded to my request that some justification be offered for "Asian values vs. American Individualism," a specious and incompetent argument. -- HK 03:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Under your arbitration ruling HK, you are not permited to repetedly delete text from articles to push your POV. I ask you to stop or I will be forced to take this matter up with an admin. Xtra 03:38, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
NPOV does require that we include all POVs -- wouldn't it be great if that were actually put into practice? -- but also requires that the POVs be sourced and verifiable. If a POV is simple baldly asserted as fact, i.e., "State-directed or dirigist economies are authoritarian," the reader is being asked to assume that the idea is universally accepted, which it is not.
Try to imagine this controversy as seen through the eyes of a non-WASP, the sort of non-WASP who would be unlikely to ever get published in the New Republic. The Western press employs a sort of Orwellian double-speak, where when the IMF is demanding genocidal reductions in the living standards of a Third World nation, they call it reform, where the looting of vulnerable economies is called free trade and sometimes even democracy, and where the practice of attempting to defend one's economy via Protectionism is always characterized as authoritarian. -- HK 23:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
If the sentence "He has been a very aggressive proponent of " Asian values" a form of authoritarian state-led capitalism" were modified to become "He has been a very aggressive proponent of " Asian values," a form of allegedly authoritarian state-led capitalism," I would consider that to be sufficiently NPOV and would move to unprotect. -- HK 21:29, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Please work this out. Use dispute resolution if need be. -- Woohookitty (cat scratches) 23:55, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
I've unprotected this page - please do not resort to revert wars if you still don't see eye to eye over everything. If there is a dispute, try one of the established dispute resolution procedures. Thanks. Izehar 12:56, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Attn. 68.48.23.45: the issue of whether Dr. Mahathir is an anti-semite is disputed. It is a matter of opinion, not verifiable fact, and therefore we must use language that reflects that. I changed your formulation to "Mahathir is regarded by many as an anti-semite." I hope that is satisfactory to you, but if it is not, you should discuss it on this page before reverting. -- HK 21:41, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
What is meant by this sentence? Which policies are these? - Will Beback 08:26, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Anwar Ibrahim's proposals are already discussed in various places, such:
So there's no need to be coy about his reform proposals. Let's just say his reform proposals were supported by Gore. Either name the "Western factions" or leave them out. - Will Beback 07:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I've changed western into IMF and some policies into rate hikes. I hope that helps in disfussing the this little disagreement. But I disagree about Anwar being painted as one of the good guys. He was as corrupt as the other. He obviously had the most to gain with the IMF demanded "reforms". __earth ( Talk) 09:11, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Many of the additions by Terrancommander are not factually accurate or in compliance with Wikipedia policy. We cannot speculate on Mahathir's motives for considering himself a "full Malay" without a source; it is original research otherwise. There is no policy requiring a Malay to be PM. The issue of Mahathir's relationship with his alma mater and Singapore appears to be a novel interpretation of events under our original research policy; could we have a source, please? "It must be noted" sounds biased, so I reworded it. The bridge was not vetoed by a "Malaysian majority". The government cancelled the project, citing opposition from the people. If anything, Mahathir appears to believe the majority supports him, since he is calling for a referendum on the bridge. The "deep down" is a "racist" remark was uncalled for and is clearly biased. The same goes for the "rude" and "Islamic radical" comments. Johnleemk | Talk 17:49, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Some video of Mahathir joking about bombing singapore [9]-- Paul E. Ester 04:17, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
This sounds POV to me: The Australian penchant for telling its neighbours what to do is clearly a sticking point. and no references or citiations are provided. I'm going to get rid of it, unless there are some reasons not to. -- Commking 04:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Someone should add info on the chemical spray incident Nil Einne 07:46, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
These were a startling omission. I think the record is served by including them. -- Rostov 19:47, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I must hand it to the contributor(s) of this wikipedia entry. This is truly an astonishing whitewash. Mohamad, throughout his years as P.M. of Malaysia, was on record attacking Jews and almost any action Israel took on the world stage (war-related or otherwise). His remarks helped make anti-Semitism respectable among "moderate" Muslims worldwide and throughout SE Asia. Wikipedia's downplaying of the issue makes this so-called e-encyclopedia more similar than it would like to admit to the EB, which for decades (centuries) downplayed anti-Semitism or allowed it to flourish in that oh-so-urbane and proper British manner; you know, "we despise the Jews but we don't want them to be exterminated, and we're circumspect about it, not like those beastly Germans." I find this entire bio of Mohamad shameful and despicable. If you can't find the source quotes you haven't looked very hard, which makes me question your skills as encyclopedists. This incidentally is my first post on anything Wikipedia-related. Sincerely, Mackb
Friday, August 18, 2006 The word “anti-Semite” is it’s self a loaded term and causes problems with POV. It has been stated early in this article that he is controversial and outspoken. That having been said I believe that the more fair approach to dealing with a very important leader in Malaysian history would to be to focus on what he said and did without labeling or attributing motive and allow the reader to come to their own conclusions and make their own value judgments. Without objection there are a few lines in this article that I would like to clean up for grammar and readability but I will not touch POV issues at this time except to make some recommendations in this discussion.
Saturday Sept 16, 2006 The fact that Dr M uses the media effectively to point out the countless double-standards and hypocrisies prevalent in Europe is taken as an example of "anti-semitism". If Austria can have laws which prohibit criticism of one particular race of people, how is it considered "free speech" when public leaders using dubious 14th Century references criticise the respected leader of another world community? The Jewish community is possibly the only beneficiary of affirmative action on a global basis simply by using this "anti-semitism" stance. Nothing against them, they have had, as Dr M pointed out as reported in these web pages, 2000 years of learning to do that. But it is extremely hypocritical to try to eat the cake and have it too. I think this article on Dr M is pretty well-balanced and has reflected the story of a man in as much entirety as is possible, warts and all. Let us not try to muzzle Wikipedia editors with this misplaced protectionism. Reader58 21:44, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
This seems more a testament to your own views about Jews than anything else. Austria's legal code attacks hate speech in general, and recognizes anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial as intrinsically hate speech. The principles behind these same codes offer protection to Muslim immigrants from the Middle East. These were the products of Austria's own experience, not anything done by Jews (very few of whom remain in Austria). Your anger about Benedict is ill-suited to the discussion here. -- Rostov 18:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Pauline Hanson was a former member of the Liberal party, and while her One Nation party had no direct connection with John Howard's party, it was widely perceived in Australia and elsewhere to be tacitly condoned by Howard
Absolute crap. There has never been any indication that John Howard supported Pauline Hanson. The idea is absurd. References please, or it's going to get wiped. -- Commking 07:39, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Today some edits occurred to this section in the article. There seems to be a dispute over whether or not Dr. M said this or that. As there are no references for any of this stuff, I am giving this oppurtunity for the anonymous contributor concerned to provide them. If not, I'll wipe it. -- Commking 03:35, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Usually, it's AD, not ad. It needs to be capital. Moveover, CE is a better option since it's neutral. In anyway, you don't need to add AD behind every year because the context is very clear. See other biographical pages. __earth ( Talk) 15:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Who said that there is no response? '~'? Saudara Hafiz aka Earth, I do appreciate your consideration about that subject matter with your "helpful"-cum-good-faith edits over that Wiki-article but and however before should you tamper, alter, or even change anything particularly onto that "Garis Masa" thing, kindly please wait and be patient enough to allow myself to finish up the several last years of Mahathir's lifetime from the article's section of "Chronology". Only until then will I come here to discuss to you further on rationally, sensibly, and reasonably regarding of your views and opinions towards all of the year formats arising from that section right after or once I have done/completed with that Tun Mahathir's timeline-editing job. As for the time being, try not to do/interfere anything with that aforementioned section when the next time you arrive here again whilst I am currently trying out my best to carry on or continue with my unfinished/unaccomplished work on that stuff. Thank you. -- onWheeZierPLot 20:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I propose that this article be divided into several smaller sections, since it is quite long an unwieldy. Possibly, we could move most of the foreign policy material into a new article, Foreign Policy of the Mahathir administration.
The political machine section, however, I feel is much more directly relevant to the legacy of the Mahathir administration, so I feel it is more important to keep that section in this article as is.
Also, I think that the chronology section should be removed, as Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, which is currently what that section is. Perhaps some of the content could be incorporated into the rest of the article. 129.170.202.3 10:19, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following statement
It was unsourced and as a Malaysian I don't believe it's an accurate assesement of the public belief either Nil Einne 14:59, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I, however, support that statement. I am a Malaysian but I do not support the degenerating education levels in Malaysia. The contents of secondary education are getting simpler. Mastery and fluency of speech in English is getting worse. In the tertiary level, Malaysia's participation in research is not enough. Wai Hong 16:39, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Under Mahathir administration, there little cultural development compare to the economic progress. There is no significant literature writing/novel produce during Mahathir administration. Nor there is any form of cultural interchange between various race in Malaysia.
No many critics taking Mahathir from the angle of cultural development. More work must be done as this is the serious flaw of Mahathir, which is comparable with other political leader which suppress cultural development and lead to nation destruction.
-- Sltan 12:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Can we work towards getting rid of the POV tag on the article? What parts of the artictle are still considered POV? Chovain 22:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure. Wai Hong 16:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I have readded the {{ POV}} tag, as well as an {{ unreferenced}} tag. The 'Legacy' section is especially bad. - SpL o T // 10:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I have placed {{ fact}} tags at all locations needing some form of attribution. On another note, the article does not have specific references for specific points, which is why I did not indiscriminately use {{ fact}} when I didn't doubt accuracy. Furthermore, the article at some parts goes out of point; for example, the bit about Anwar and PAS goes on and on without concentrating on Mahathir's role in the issue. Nearly an entire paragraph on the Anwar issue seems to have been copied from the Politics section to the United States Relations section. This same section describes the bilateral relations as both 'stormy' and 'strong'. The section on speculation is rather awkward as well. Lede is quite short too, but that can be done later on when (hopefully) this article gets to GA. The timeline is way too lengthy, and should be split. More pressingly, I have quoted each somewhat POV sentence to scrutinise here:
Somehow, with this article, the many unsourced statements also lead to POV problems. - SpL o T // 14:31, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
we might need to add a section on his family. His children are quite well-known personalities in Malaysia. __earth ( Talk) 15:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I propose to merge Galeria Sri Perdana into this article. Galeria Sri Perdana does not seem to be notable in itself, at least not by the current state of that article. Actually the relevant information in that article seems to be that Galeria Sri Perdana was the residence of Mahathir bin Mohamad. Thus I am proposing to merge the content into here. (In fact, if you support that, just go ahead and merge the articles.)
Proposed as part of the Notability wikiproject. -- B. Wolterding 16:03, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
The Galeria Sri Perdana was the official residence of the fourth Prime Minister of Malaysia, Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad from 23 August 1983 to 18 October 1999. During this period, it was known as Sri Perdana. In keeping with the principle of heritage conservation, the original design and layout of the Sri Perdana has been preserved and Galeria Sri Perdana symbolises the nation's indebtedness to the Tun for 22 years of his dedicated and selfless service to the nation. On display are the: Main Lounge where many important official and family gatherings took place. The decorative design on the walls reflects the artistic tradition of the local Malay woodcarving; Wood Carving Room where the Tun took part in his favourite pastime. The woodcarving machine and appliances, as well as examples of the Tun's own work are displayed here; Theatre where up to 32 people can now view a documentary depicting a typical day in the life of the Prime Minister; Reading Room where a collection of reading and reference materials are kept. The Tun used this room when writing many of his speeches; Green House an idea insired by the Tun himself. It houses a variety of plants under controlled temperatures.
Jalan Damansara Kuala Lumpur: Open Tues-Sun 10am-5pm; Fri 10am-noon and 3pm-5:30pm.
Ref: KL Welcome Guide April 2006 p32
Could anyone please explain the two different birthdates cited -December 20 and July 10? Which is correct? Most sources on the Internet says December 20.
Swedish Wiki user:Belairroad
[10] June 6 2007 15:18 (CET)
Is this really necessary? I don't see many other political biographies with a timeline, and it takes up a whopping third of the article length on my screen. It also serves as somewhat of an excuse for shoddy writing, since people stick relevant information (e.g. his children, family, etc.) into the timeline instead of the article body. Johnleemk | Talk 19:10, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Despite months to do so, no source was provided on the cronyism allegations. Wikipedia is not the place for opinion or baseless accusations. Graham Wellington 20:43, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think this is a good idea. Criticism sections are an easy way out of integrating the criticism into the article, and become a slipshod way of accumulating libel and other allegations in one lumped-up section. As it stands, the entire section really could go into the economic policy section. Criticism that is relevant to a particular section should go in there, and not be lumped into a general criticism section. I have rarely seen such sections which read well, particularly in political articles. Johnleemk | Talk 21:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
DumZiBoT ( talk) 00:43, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
"No mention of Mahathir's Indian Muslim background ever appears in the media. The subject is taboo," says Prospect Magazine. So now that the air is clear as to why it is so difficult to get information on Mahathir's background, I suggest we end the debate here. Say some more and we may well become the guest of the Malaysian government later tonight, LOL. — PM Poon ( talk) 07:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Who is this Philip Bowring character - and why does he so want people to believe Dr. M had an Indian father? Both sources that claim Dr. M's father of being born in India are from him. One is his blog (quoted above) and the other the prospect magazine link above where he is the author. 60.54.34.181 ( talk) 05:08, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
Since it wasn't sourced, and it appears we don't even know his ancestry, I changed the pseudo-Arabic pronunciation of his name to something more Malay. If it's a mistake, please restore--preferably with a source there or an explanation here. kwami ( talk) 14:14, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. -- Mkativerata ( talk) 20:25, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/6/21/nation/21617618&sec=nation. and other sources. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Mkativerata ( talk) 20:32, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
Mahathir bin Mohamad → Mahathir Mohamad — per WP:COMMONNAME. The overwhelming English usage is to drop the "bin", which most Malays drop in everyday usage as well. For example, there are 8750 google book hits with "bin", but 34,500 without it. News sources have an even starker difference: 791 with, 27,800 without. See for example the BBC profile. [12] WP:COMMONNAME implores us to follow these English language sources. Mkativerata ( talk) 04:14, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
I just want to let anyone who is interested in this article know that over the next few weeks/months I'm planning to on some improvements to it in my userpsace ( here). I think everyone can agree this article isn't up to scratch and I think it needs a focused wholesale effort to improve it. I'd be very grateful for input, help, comments, etc. -- Mkativerata ( talk) 19:36, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Mkativerata, you have deleted multiple edits by various people (deleting views of pluralisms) and changed it to a singularity of your own view, though perhaps you never have close encounter with the subject and never comprehend him. Huayi ( talk) 05:12, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Dr. Mahathir has recently caused a stir by acknowledging that there is strong evidence that 9/11 was staged: http://911blogger.com/node/22428
The article should be updated to include this information (with an NPOV on the subject as to whether 9/11 was in fact staged or not).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.11.186.64 ( talk • contribs) 01:54, 22 January 2010
Mahathir is a CIA agent. Mahathir is a Bilderberg member too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.120.185.171 ( talk) 15:00, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
The official d.o.b. is 20 Dec 1925. In his recently published book, A Doctor in the House: The memoirs on Tun Dr Mahathir, Mahathir stated that his real d.o.b. is 10 July 1925, but his father put 20 December on the birth certificate in order to simplify age calculation for entry into school. It was common to have two birth dates at that time. 203.82.94.73 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:26, 11 July 2011 (UTC).
Why so much fuss about it? Just because he has some Indian Muslim ancestry doesn't make him a Mamak. What most people seem to forget is that his ancestry is 75% Malay and 25% Indian. He's through and through a Malay with regard to language, culture, upbringing, values etc. Yet when I browse through the Opposition's blogs, they hype his Indian ancestry as if everything about him is Indian. Why do they do that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.48.207.47 ( talk) 04:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Someone with good faith should always protect this Article. At the height of Malaysian political heat (since the general election is coming very soon), a lot of bad-minded persons would love to vandalize it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.171.98.172 ( talk) 00:25, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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A very nitpicky request, but could the large template on the top of the page be reduced to the small silver lock? It's a highly visited page (especially heading into a general election) and it would be a pity to have an article in quite reasonable shape obscured by a large template that readers don't need to see. Cheers.-- Mkativerata ( talk) 10:24, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
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The article should not be a member of Category:Malaysian physicists since its subject is a physician, not a physicist. — HHHIPPO 11:36, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
For the Foreign Relations -> Singapore section, can the following be added? Feel free to shorten.
Zhanzhao ( talk) 08:28, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
References
Foreign relations section...
Currently reads:
[...] During Mahathir's term, Malaysia's relationship with the West was generally fine despite his being known as an outspoken critic towards it.[77] Early during his tenure, a small disagreement with the United Kingdom over university tuition fees sparked a boycott of all British goods led by Mahathir, in what became known as the "Buy British Last" campaign. It also led to a search for development models in Asia, most notably Japan. This was the beginning of his famous "Look East Policy".[78] Although the dispute was later resolved by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, Mahathir continued to emphasize Asian development models over contemporary Western ones... he particularly criticized the double standards of Western nations[79]
Suggest addition at the end.
In 2013, Mahathir was invited to the funeral of Margaret Thatcher. Decisions about who to invite were made by her family in consultation with the British Government. [1]
Reason:
I think it is a minor point, but shows that the working relationship between Mahathir and the British Premiere remained positive / respectful even after their retirements. If this article were not protected, I would just ahve added it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.5.163.57 ( talk) 13:22, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
References
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Please remove "Dr." from the lead sentence in accordance with WP:Credential. Thank you, Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 10:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
The article is tagged for neutrality dispute, but there does not seem to be an active discussion on the talk page. Should the tag be removed? Joe Bodacious ( talk) 14:28, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
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Hi all,
I'm reading "Tunku: An Odyssey of a Life Well-Lived and Well-Loved" by Kobkua Suwannathat Pian (2017), where it is mentioned (pg 4) that the headmaster of Tunku's English medium school was one Mohamad Iskandar, father of Mahathir. It's an interesting factoid, but I wasn't sure how to slot it in in the "Childhood and medical career" section, since the part pertaining to Dr M's parentage seems to be making the point that he was the only PM not with a politically connected background.
Would be cool if this made it into the article somehow, it's an interesting bit of trivia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.101.153.34 ( talk) 01:40, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
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Dr Mahathir just won the elections a second time and will be sworn today or tomorrow so what are plans for adding this info? Ihavealovelycat ( talk) 05:27, 10 May 2018 (UTC) Ihavealovelycat ( talk) 05:27, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
When a prime minister is re-appointed after an absence from office, he or she retains the position number of their first appointment. This convention may be seen in the following articles:
There are many other such examples. Thus, Mahathir will always retain his position as the 4th PM. If, as mooted, Anwar succeeds Mahathir, then Anwar will be the 7th PM. WWGB ( talk) 02:10, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
I thought so too, but Mohamad has widely been reported as the "7th prime minister".
https://www.google.com/search?q=%227th+Prime+Minister%22+%22mahathir+mohamad%22 His official Twitter describes him as the 7th prime minister.
https://twitter.com/chedetofficial
Ivar the Boneful (
talk) 14:25, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Given that a timeline of his first 100 days in office has been deleted, perhaps it might be wise to create a timeline of his whole term in office in a separate article? Zubin12 ( talk) 10:59, 5 August 2018 (UTC)