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I just noticed that User:Psychomelodic added the phrase (or the 'term') radical left to the intro. Where is this from? What source? Who calls it that? Is it appropriate? Just checking.. Ramallite (talk) 15:27, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
It is not only an unsourced opinion (and so inadmissible) it is also wrong. -- Zero talk 10:19, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
According to the homepage the group is "politically pluralistic" [1]. // Liftarn
While the fact that we've had this amount of discussion proves that the neutrality of the article is disputed, the whole thing is well-sourced and therefore the article is factually accurate. Who else thinks that we should change the template to {{ POV}}? -- Ynhockey ( Talk) 11:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Well my wife is a volunteer with Machsom Watch and based on her experiences I can say that the only criticism of the article is that it doesn't say much about what the watchers are witness to. Still, this is supposed to be an encyclopedia, and I guess the link to the Machsom Watch site provides the missing information. 89.138.30.229 17:51, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Zero, you're back and the deleting without discussion has started again. Why does the soldier's father have to be notable? He is giving his own opinion that his son was scared of the women and scared of being complained about, and that in the father's view, this may have been one of the causes of the son's death. Who else could give that opinion, given that it was the father that the son spoke to? SlimVirgin (talk) 11:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree, in this case he is notable enough to discuss who he blames for the death. Quoting him also helps to show the attitude of the general public towards Machsom Watch.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 12:45, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
By these standards we can quote any individual who has an opinion on something involving a family member. The soldier's father was not a witness to the events in question and his relationship to his dead son makes him emotionally involved and therefore not a reliable source. His opinion has no evidentiary value and does not satisfy WP:RS. What actual evidence is there that relates the death of this soldier to Machsom Watch? None at all, as far as I can see. -- Zero talk 13:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
I suggest this article will be reedited to make it more NPOV. Tal :) 13:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
as if an israeli soldier had to fear sth. from a complaint (about the treatment of a palestinian)...-- Severino ( talk) 10:05, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Right now the article spends a lot of time on specific incidents and allegations that don't really cohere into a picture of what's going on. It looks like the situation is chaotic, with emotions high on all sides. In an environment where everyone, soldiers and palestinians alike, is afraid of getting injured or killed, reports are bound to conflict with each other. I added a cleanup template. Tlogmer ( talk / contributions ) 17:41, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I haven't followed this article for a while now, but noticed that the entire 'support for Machsom Watch' section is sourced by an editorial from HaAretz. I mean, news stories are fine even if it's a known pro-Machsom Watch newspaper, but editorials? Ynet has dozens of new editorials each week. Should we use these as sources too? I don't think editorials in general, which are primarily opinion pieces, have a place on Wikipedia as sources for anything. -- Ynhockey ( Talk) 17:58, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
"Haaretz editor is very well-known and influential". You're right at about that one. He is on record as telling his American guests of honor that "Israel wants to be raped by the US" at Annapolis and that it would be his "wet dream to see it happen". I rest my case. J.D. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 ( talk) 02:33, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
This section has now grown totally out of proportion with the rest of the article, IMO. Continue like this, and we can change the title of the whole article to "Criticisms of Machsom Watch". Some of the stuff has to go. Comments? Regards, Huldra ( talk) 01:40, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
I would like to add
these revelatory findings, published in a reputable academic journal, that supposedly disclose obscurantist activity, that includes the prevarication of false claims. I remind editors that there should be zero
conflicts of interest, and of course, arguments should not contain
original research. Editors may find this a useful
mirror test.
Best Wishes
Ankh.
Morpork 19:39, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
You have to look at the published version here rather than the preprint version you found. (The changes are few, though.) As far as I can see, the article has no information about Machsom Watch at all, so it is not useful as a source for this page. We don't discuss ourselves in article space. As for the mention of me, I'm rather proud to be the target of that rubbish. Not only do they quote both the removed text and my edit comment incorrectly, but anyone can see that the sentence I removed was not only unsourced but unacceptable for other reasons (who are "Jewish Human Rights activists", for example?). The words "disrupt the work of soldiers at checkpoints” that I supposedly deleted come from a different sentence, which I not only did not delete but actually checked and attributed properly. That sentence is still in the article more than 6 years later. Let's be generous and suppose that Oboler, Steinberg and Stern don't know what "unsourced" means on Wikipedia (in which case, why are they writing about it?) since the alternative explanation would be rather more damning. Zero talk 04:05, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
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![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
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I just noticed that User:Psychomelodic added the phrase (or the 'term') radical left to the intro. Where is this from? What source? Who calls it that? Is it appropriate? Just checking.. Ramallite (talk) 15:27, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
It is not only an unsourced opinion (and so inadmissible) it is also wrong. -- Zero talk 10:19, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
According to the homepage the group is "politically pluralistic" [1]. // Liftarn
While the fact that we've had this amount of discussion proves that the neutrality of the article is disputed, the whole thing is well-sourced and therefore the article is factually accurate. Who else thinks that we should change the template to {{ POV}}? -- Ynhockey ( Talk) 11:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Well my wife is a volunteer with Machsom Watch and based on her experiences I can say that the only criticism of the article is that it doesn't say much about what the watchers are witness to. Still, this is supposed to be an encyclopedia, and I guess the link to the Machsom Watch site provides the missing information. 89.138.30.229 17:51, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Zero, you're back and the deleting without discussion has started again. Why does the soldier's father have to be notable? He is giving his own opinion that his son was scared of the women and scared of being complained about, and that in the father's view, this may have been one of the causes of the son's death. Who else could give that opinion, given that it was the father that the son spoke to? SlimVirgin (talk) 11:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree, in this case he is notable enough to discuss who he blames for the death. Quoting him also helps to show the attitude of the general public towards Machsom Watch.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 12:45, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
By these standards we can quote any individual who has an opinion on something involving a family member. The soldier's father was not a witness to the events in question and his relationship to his dead son makes him emotionally involved and therefore not a reliable source. His opinion has no evidentiary value and does not satisfy WP:RS. What actual evidence is there that relates the death of this soldier to Machsom Watch? None at all, as far as I can see. -- Zero talk 13:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
I suggest this article will be reedited to make it more NPOV. Tal :) 13:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
as if an israeli soldier had to fear sth. from a complaint (about the treatment of a palestinian)...-- Severino ( talk) 10:05, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Right now the article spends a lot of time on specific incidents and allegations that don't really cohere into a picture of what's going on. It looks like the situation is chaotic, with emotions high on all sides. In an environment where everyone, soldiers and palestinians alike, is afraid of getting injured or killed, reports are bound to conflict with each other. I added a cleanup template. Tlogmer ( talk / contributions ) 17:41, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I haven't followed this article for a while now, but noticed that the entire 'support for Machsom Watch' section is sourced by an editorial from HaAretz. I mean, news stories are fine even if it's a known pro-Machsom Watch newspaper, but editorials? Ynet has dozens of new editorials each week. Should we use these as sources too? I don't think editorials in general, which are primarily opinion pieces, have a place on Wikipedia as sources for anything. -- Ynhockey ( Talk) 17:58, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
"Haaretz editor is very well-known and influential". You're right at about that one. He is on record as telling his American guests of honor that "Israel wants to be raped by the US" at Annapolis and that it would be his "wet dream to see it happen". I rest my case. J.D. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 ( talk) 02:33, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
This section has now grown totally out of proportion with the rest of the article, IMO. Continue like this, and we can change the title of the whole article to "Criticisms of Machsom Watch". Some of the stuff has to go. Comments? Regards, Huldra ( talk) 01:40, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
I would like to add
these revelatory findings, published in a reputable academic journal, that supposedly disclose obscurantist activity, that includes the prevarication of false claims. I remind editors that there should be zero
conflicts of interest, and of course, arguments should not contain
original research. Editors may find this a useful
mirror test.
Best Wishes
Ankh.
Morpork 19:39, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
You have to look at the published version here rather than the preprint version you found. (The changes are few, though.) As far as I can see, the article has no information about Machsom Watch at all, so it is not useful as a source for this page. We don't discuss ourselves in article space. As for the mention of me, I'm rather proud to be the target of that rubbish. Not only do they quote both the removed text and my edit comment incorrectly, but anyone can see that the sentence I removed was not only unsourced but unacceptable for other reasons (who are "Jewish Human Rights activists", for example?). The words "disrupt the work of soldiers at checkpoints” that I supposedly deleted come from a different sentence, which I not only did not delete but actually checked and attributed properly. That sentence is still in the article more than 6 years later. Let's be generous and suppose that Oboler, Steinberg and Stern don't know what "unsourced" means on Wikipedia (in which case, why are they writing about it?) since the alternative explanation would be rather more damning. Zero talk 04:05, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Machsom Watch. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.machsomwatch.org/media/simaKadmonEng.asp?link=media&lang=eng{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/690397.htmlWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:24, 11 January 2018 (UTC)