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This uses as its title a name which is neither official nor colloquial, and claims that the "official name" is a near-literal nonce phrase. It also implies that the RT operations, which are overwhelmingly surface, are subway. Anmccaff ( talk) 18:05, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
The Boston Subway (commonly referred to as "the T" and officially Massachusetts Bay Rapid Transit), which was wrong on so many levels it is hard to keep track. There's a slight disconnect, even now,between "MBTA subway", which is used in some T pubs for all RT operations, and "MBTA rapid transit", which a little more accurate. Anmccaff ( talk) 21:17, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
MBTA Subway ("The T")as the
(Blue, Orange, and Red Lines, while linking to an article about the MBTA as a whole, which describes the whole system as "the T". Anmccaff ( talk) 19:01, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
You really do need to get the Mind-reading device calibrated. This argument..or, at least my argument, is that a name used for any encyclopedia entry should be as precise, official, and unambiguous as possible -figures of speech are not welcome here; that Wiki has a real prejudice about capitalization, reserving it only for particular proper phrases, and therefor, in Wikish, "MBTA Subway" has different implications from "MBTA subway"; and that Wiki as a matter of policy frowns on circular citations. Anmccaff ( talk) 21:50, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
talk:Tylr00|talk]]) 16:25, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
The folklore explaining the color scheme is now widespread, but there is no early indication of it, and there should be, if it were real. There is also some direct contravention of it; Cambridge7 explicitly noted that they preferred to start with the primary colors, and only switched away from yellow to orange when it proved unworkable in signage. Anmccaff ( talk) 21:08, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
I want to open up the discussion to adding a line to the lead paragraph where we say that the system is also commonly referred to as "the T". I find that in media, word of mouth, and even station signage that the informal but colloquial name "the T" refers to the subway. For example, T stations are typically subway stations, although the T sign is found on commuter rail stations those are infrequently referred to as "T stations". Moreover, the T emblem doesn't appear on bus stops, nor on this map published by the MBTA, which shows subway stations and lines denoted with circle Ts while bus stops with dots or numbers, further illustrating the "everyday" link between "the T" and the subway.
Additionally, when navigating around mbta.com, the pagenames go from "MBTA Official Website" on generic pages to "MBTA Subway 'The T'" when one clicks on a subway-specific page (See: [1]).
Obviously, this issue is contentious, as some may argue that "the T" and its logo refer to the system as a whole, but I do think it is worth nothing on this page that this system (the subway) is commonly referred to by name as "the T". Tylr00 ( talk) 19:32, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership== Adding note to first paragraph ==
Based on discussions on this talk page, we have established that the subway system is often referred to as "the T", despite having ambiguity with the system as a whole. Regardless of the correctness of this nomenclature, per WP:UEIA: "The body of each article, preferably in its first paragraph, should list all frequently used names by which its subject is widely known."
As such, I believe the following to be neutral:
Although largely an identity of the MBTA, "the T" is often used to refer to the subway system by locals, news sites and guidebooks [1] [2] [3], and the MBTA itself [4].
References
The official MBTA website has a more modern and updated schematic map, which includes changes to the Silver Line that are not reflected in the schematic map currently on this page. The updated map can be seen here: https://www.mbta.com/schedules/subway I'm unfortunately not very well-versed on determining the copyright status of an image; I assume that it would fall under public domain, since it's from a state-funded entity and doesn't appear to have any explicit copyright info, however would anyone who is a bit more knowledgeable on this topic be able to verify this? Thanks in advance. VSatire ( talk) 13:38, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
The article says there are 133 stations. But clicking on the linked " List of MBTA subway stations" article says there are 149. From my count, there are 114 subway-only stations, 7 on the Mattapan line, and 28 Silver Line-only. So I'm not sure where that 133 number is coming from. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hamnya ( talk • contribs) 14:49, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 03:57, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
MBTA subway → MBTA rapid transit – MBTA uses the terms "rapid transit" and "subway" interchangeably. In the United States, the term subway implies a heavy rail train operating mostly underground, while rapid transit implies any type of transit (heavy rail, light rail, and BRT) that has treatment to make its movement more rapid. Outside of the US, the terms seem to be largely interchangeable. RickyCourtney ( talk) 18:12, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
MBTA subway article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 365 days |
This article was nominated for deletion on 26 August 2016. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This uses as its title a name which is neither official nor colloquial, and claims that the "official name" is a near-literal nonce phrase. It also implies that the RT operations, which are overwhelmingly surface, are subway. Anmccaff ( talk) 18:05, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
The Boston Subway (commonly referred to as "the T" and officially Massachusetts Bay Rapid Transit), which was wrong on so many levels it is hard to keep track. There's a slight disconnect, even now,between "MBTA subway", which is used in some T pubs for all RT operations, and "MBTA rapid transit", which a little more accurate. Anmccaff ( talk) 21:17, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
MBTA Subway ("The T")as the
(Blue, Orange, and Red Lines, while linking to an article about the MBTA as a whole, which describes the whole system as "the T". Anmccaff ( talk) 19:01, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
You really do need to get the Mind-reading device calibrated. This argument..or, at least my argument, is that a name used for any encyclopedia entry should be as precise, official, and unambiguous as possible -figures of speech are not welcome here; that Wiki has a real prejudice about capitalization, reserving it only for particular proper phrases, and therefor, in Wikish, "MBTA Subway" has different implications from "MBTA subway"; and that Wiki as a matter of policy frowns on circular citations. Anmccaff ( talk) 21:50, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
talk:Tylr00|talk]]) 16:25, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
The folklore explaining the color scheme is now widespread, but there is no early indication of it, and there should be, if it were real. There is also some direct contravention of it; Cambridge7 explicitly noted that they preferred to start with the primary colors, and only switched away from yellow to orange when it proved unworkable in signage. Anmccaff ( talk) 21:08, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
I want to open up the discussion to adding a line to the lead paragraph where we say that the system is also commonly referred to as "the T". I find that in media, word of mouth, and even station signage that the informal but colloquial name "the T" refers to the subway. For example, T stations are typically subway stations, although the T sign is found on commuter rail stations those are infrequently referred to as "T stations". Moreover, the T emblem doesn't appear on bus stops, nor on this map published by the MBTA, which shows subway stations and lines denoted with circle Ts while bus stops with dots or numbers, further illustrating the "everyday" link between "the T" and the subway.
Additionally, when navigating around mbta.com, the pagenames go from "MBTA Official Website" on generic pages to "MBTA Subway 'The T'" when one clicks on a subway-specific page (See: [1]).
Obviously, this issue is contentious, as some may argue that "the T" and its logo refer to the system as a whole, but I do think it is worth nothing on this page that this system (the subway) is commonly referred to by name as "the T". Tylr00 ( talk) 19:32, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership== Adding note to first paragraph ==
Based on discussions on this talk page, we have established that the subway system is often referred to as "the T", despite having ambiguity with the system as a whole. Regardless of the correctness of this nomenclature, per WP:UEIA: "The body of each article, preferably in its first paragraph, should list all frequently used names by which its subject is widely known."
As such, I believe the following to be neutral:
Although largely an identity of the MBTA, "the T" is often used to refer to the subway system by locals, news sites and guidebooks [1] [2] [3], and the MBTA itself [4].
References
The official MBTA website has a more modern and updated schematic map, which includes changes to the Silver Line that are not reflected in the schematic map currently on this page. The updated map can be seen here: https://www.mbta.com/schedules/subway I'm unfortunately not very well-versed on determining the copyright status of an image; I assume that it would fall under public domain, since it's from a state-funded entity and doesn't appear to have any explicit copyright info, however would anyone who is a bit more knowledgeable on this topic be able to verify this? Thanks in advance. VSatire ( talk) 13:38, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
The article says there are 133 stations. But clicking on the linked " List of MBTA subway stations" article says there are 149. From my count, there are 114 subway-only stations, 7 on the Mattapan line, and 28 Silver Line-only. So I'm not sure where that 133 number is coming from. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hamnya ( talk • contribs) 14:49, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 03:57, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
MBTA subway → MBTA rapid transit – MBTA uses the terms "rapid transit" and "subway" interchangeably. In the United States, the term subway implies a heavy rail train operating mostly underground, while rapid transit implies any type of transit (heavy rail, light rail, and BRT) that has treatment to make its movement more rapid. Outside of the US, the terms seem to be largely interchangeable. RickyCourtney ( talk) 18:12, 3 May 2022 (UTC)