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This article on the history of lynching in America has been hijacked by liberals to overwhelmingly emphasize, in every minute gruesome detail, white on black lynching, minimize and discount white on white lynching, and totally ignore black on black, and black on white lynching. It has many, many references to the race of black victims and the race of the white perpetrators, along with the vast majority of photographs depicting dead black victims, cherry picked for their shock value, with minutely detailed horrific descriptions posted to elicit outrage in the viewer. Photographs of any of the victims of those who were lynched and the horrific details on how they met their end is swept under the rug. It would greatly benefit 'subjective' editing. However, since this is the PC Victimist's Sacred Cow and political Ace-in-the-Hole, subjectivism, unless it is the lock-step 'politically correct subjectivism', will simply not be allowed.
Not that it matters here, but for what it is worth (and here it won't be worth much if anything at all), an excellent book that has a truly subjective historical view of lynching in America is the following: 'Lynching: History and Analysis', by Prof. Dewight D. Murphey. For those of us who have read it realize just how politically biased this Wikipedia article is.
While abuse and the lynching of innocent blacks occurred for reasons of racial animus, the majority were not. This was how much of early America (just as in many villages in Africa today) dealt with crime in their communities. Many of these places were small tight nit communities in which everyone knew everyone else, including the accused, well enough to have a far better knowledge of guilt or innocence than some liberal bleeding heart apologists 100 years after the fact.
Funny I never here liberals get all hot and bothered over the supposed innocence of the many whites who were lynched during the same period, or the many whites and non-black minorities who were/are lynched by some blacks in the present day. Or even the many blacks who are lynched by fellow blacks in Africa now!
When looking at history out side the PC filters, far more white were lynched in the history of Europe than blacks in the United States. And far more whites were lynched in the history of United states than blacks. When you take the following non-PC facts into consideration:
1. The excepted number of blacks lynched as compiled by the NAACP and the Tuskegee Institute deals with the years 1882 and 1951 at '4,730 people were lynched in the United States: 3,437 Black and 1,293 White'. Those were the years in which the highest number of black lynching were recorded. What isn't mentioned is that prior to black emancipation few blacks were lynched as they were protected private property, and that the vast majority of people lynched from the creation of this country as a nation and up to black emancipation, were white.
2. In the Western Frontier the vast majority of those who were lynched were white. Numbers are considered greatly underestimated due to the lack of records and interest at the time (people didn't get all upset when white criminals were done away with to even care. The fact that they were permanently removed from society was good enough for most). Papers would often report lynching of white desperadoes without mentioning their names while giving scant details.
3. It has been estimated that black criminals murder and lynch more (truly known innocent) whites every two years than blacks that were ever lynched in the last 100 years. When multiplying that number over the past 50 years we are looking at 10's of thousands of white men, woman, and children who have been murdered and lynched, some in the most horrific ways imaginable. Their photos along with horrifically detailed descriptions on how they died will never be allowed here.
"People often resorted to lynching because the competent authorities were a long ride away and justice would brook no delay. Prof. Murphey reminds us that President Andrew Jackson himself sanctioned the practice when he recommended to Iowa settlers that they lynch murderers. Likewise in Kansas, a New York Tribune correspondent reported in 1858 that "[t]here is a very general disposition to pass over the hopelessly useless forms of Territorial law and corrupt Federal courts, and try these parties (i.e. horse-thieves) by Lynch law."
Prof. Murphey notes that contrary to current assumptions, blacks also formed lynch gangs, mostly to lynch blacks, but sometimes to lynch whites:
In Clarksdale, Tennessee, blacks lynched a white in 1914 for raping a black woman. The authorities later ruled that this was justifiable homicide.
In 1872 in Chicot County, Arkansas, armed blacks broke three whites out of jail and shot them to death.
Nor was lynching by any means a sport in which any black was fair game:
In Tennessee in 1911, four white men hanged a black man and his two daughters but for no good reason. This outrage roused the ire of the community; the whites were tried and two were hanged." -Thomas Jackson, excerpt, review of 'Lynching: History and Analysis', by Prof. Dewight D. Murphey.
But why is such a lopsided and emotional view of only one side of the history of Lynching in America allowed? Prof. William J. Bennetta of the Text Book Legue, explains:
“Wherever multiculturalism goes, it brings Victimism with it. Victimism is an integral part of the multi-culti ideological package, and its practitioners, whom we may call Victimists, have two principal concerns: They invent fake stories and images that are intended to bring sympathy, admiration, glory and political advantage to groups of people who have been officially designated as Victims by the multi-culti establishment; and they strive to disseminate their fake stories and images in the guise of “history.”
The Victims are always groups, not individuals. This isn’t surprising, because all multi-culti ideology revolves around tribalism, the rejection of individualism, and the doctrine that a person’s primary identity is his group identity — i.e., the tribe to which he belongs.
In practice, all the principal tribes turn out to be racial or quasiracial groups, which are defined in terms of their real or imaginary ancestries. Among the racial groups represented in the population of the United States, two have not merely been certified as Victims but have also been selected for especially lavish treatment by the Victimists. These groups — Amerindians and American blacks — figure prominently in the multi-culti version of “American history,” where they are sanitized and glorified beyond recognition, and are depicted as the hapless prey of evil white men.
Sanitization is an indispensable part of this endeavor, because certified Victims must always be depicted as innocent, righteous paragons of humanity. The sanitization process consists largely of hiding or denying any facts which show that the Victims had victims of their own, whom they slaughtered, displaced, subjugated, enslaved or exploited." -Prof. William J. Bennetta, EXCERPT from ‘The Textbook Letter’, from July-August 1998. Historicalhonesty 21:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
-- Ahem --
'...Trial juries in the southeastern United States were typically all-white and would not vote to convict lynchers. Often juries never let the matter go past the inquest...'
Perhaps -- but that the sole example provided concerns events in Port Jervis, New York doesn't exactly support the claim. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.199.136.135 ( talk) 06:43, August 23, 2007 (UTC)
This talk page is getting hard to manage, and that’s because it is at least 728kb. I suggest that we follow the talk page guidelines, which recommend archiving when it exceeds 75 KB. There are several ways to achieve this purpose, and for me, it seems that the automatic mode is the best for a talk page like this one, which does not need too much attention, but it is still busier than most. What method do you suggest? Historiador ( talk) 07:39, 30 November 2015 (UTC) Reformatting paragraph Historiador ( talk) 07:41, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Before reverting changes done by an IP address, I would like to gauge sentiments about this issue among people working on this article. The changes I am referring took away Adam Hudson’s suggestions that the police’ current treatment of Black men suggests similarities to lynching. The first issue I have against the change is that the sentence that was deleted did not say anything wrong. It only made reference to Hudson's suggestion. The source, differently to what the IP user commented, it is reliable: it is the main place where Hudson writes from.
Moreover, Hudson’s suggestion is a topic that has been widely discussed among experts, empirical and academic publications, some of which I noted below. Among experts, there is already a consensus about the existence of a correlation (though no consensus about its meaning or its manifestations). To ignore the discussion of this connections in this article is to either ignore the reality of the discussion or/and to side with a mostly non-academic camp of it—none of these steps are part of WP’s mission (to ignore or to side). Some of the sources:
1- Embrick, David G. "Two Nations, Revisited: The Lynching of Black and Brown Bodies, Police Brutality, and Racial Control in ‘Post-Racial’Amerikkka." Critical Sociology 41, no. 6 (2015): 835-843.
2- Cooper, Hannah LF. "War on drugs policing and police brutality." Substance use & misuse 50, no. 8-9 (2015): 1-7.
3- Rogers, Arneta. "How Police Brutality Harms Mothers: Linking Police Violence to the Reproductive Justice Movement." Hastings Race & Poverty LJ 12 (2015): 205-235.
4- Smith, Selena. "The Modern Day parallel of Racist Police Murders to Lynching." In 143rd APHA Annual Meeting and Expo (Oct. 31-Nov. 4, 2015). APHA, 2015.
5- Butler, Paul. "Stop and Frisk and Torture-Lite: Police Terror of Minority Communities." Ohio St. J. Crim. L. 12 (2014): 57.
Thanks for your views Historiador ( talk) 02:02, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Closed by mutual consent
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Hello! I was invited to comment on this discussion by Dennishidalgo who chose me because I'm an active editor. I'm a librarian and I try not to act in bias on Wiki or in my job. However, I should disclose that I have a liberal bent, which you can easily tell from my userpage or my edits. I'll try not to let my "liberal cooties" poison the discussion. LOL That said, I spent time reading the information that Dennis provided and it looks sound. There seems to be significant reason to revert the edit. Plus, he's looking to revert a sentence from the article, not write an entire WP:COATRACK. There are already sections that involve police complicity, such as here in the article itself. I have to suspect that there are racial motivations for not wanting to include modern police tactics and lynching. It's a sensitive subject, true, but we don't live in a post-racial world and if police are unlawfully working together against non-whites either in the past or today, that should be mentioned. Five articles is a good start to show that it's not fringe. Also, the term "Driving while Black" is a good anecdotal place to start realizing that people aren't treated equally in the U.S. Anyway, I'm not trying to ignite the discussion, I think that both of you have made good points and have kept the talk page area civil and that is awesome. Megalibrarygirl ( talk) 22:01, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
@
Megalibrarygirl: From my position, you are a mega-help. You took the time to read the material I submitted, and your conclusions helped me see I was not alone. Thanks.
@
Berean Hunter: Thanks for your most recent
presence among us. You are correct. With experience in these matters comes a better sense of time. Yet, I also followed good judgment by seeking advice. I agree to collapse this subthread if @
Megalibrarygirl: has no objection either.
Historiador (
talk)
08:48, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
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I just wanted to note, as to readability and overall feel of accuracy, that this article needs some major work done. Unfortunately, I lack the knowledge or time to fix this whole thing. Perhaps someone can put one of those banners that solicits help to build a better article at the top of the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.182.24.159 ( talk) 09:16, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
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As per banner, worked to shorten Lead and make more concise. More detailed material in article. Parkwells ( talk) 19:17, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
Given that blacks were victims of lynchings by a rate of many times that of any other ethnic group, it seems inappropriate to have a photo of a lynched non-black man leading the article. I suggest another be put in its place. Parkwells ( talk) 18:32, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
Even though blacks were disproportionally the targets of lynchings, to exclude photos of the lynching of others would encourage a misrepresentation of history. MarkSonntag ( talk) 15:01, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Lynching and political violence have a much bigger role in American than just its manifestations against blacks. Well documented, in easily available sources, are the attacks that were carried out against Mormons. [1]. From my readings, I am aware, (but it is extremely hard to find documentation), that the political violence that became common in the South of the post Civil War period was used in at various times and places in the Antebellum South as various white factions battled each other for control of their states. MarkSonntag ( talk) 15:07, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
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I think this section should be flagged for a re-write, potentially using the main article on disenfranchisement. Many of its statements lack citations, and some lines make no sense, especially in the intro section. For example: "Thousands of workers were brought in by planters to do lumbering and work on levees." This sentence is a stand alone paragraph, with no explanation or citation. Perhaps someone else knows why its there, or what the original author meant? Also, the next paragraph, discussing rates of lynching seems poorly written and alongside the preceding paragraphs focuses heavily on the Mississippi delta and neglects the rest of the South or US. CaptainEek ( talk) 06:52, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
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Postscript to external link Without Santuary
Up to a few years ago there was an internet website of a collection of lynching pictures from the book of the same name of "Without Santuary". This website no longer exists..however while it did about twenty of the pictures were unknown as to circumstances...through research about a dozen were updated as to circumstances...a link to notes is at https://civilwartalk.com/threads/a-post-civil-war-legacy-lynching-warning-graphic-accounts-and-pictures.118468/
For example one postcard printed in a Midwest state stated the victium was lynched for killing a policeman named Collins...in fact the slain officer was Charles Collis of Springfield Oh in March 1904!
Note: As before the website is no longer online so please use the book in companion with these notes
Warning these are very Graphic Pictures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.5.93.122 ( talk) 13:57, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
I've never been involved this way with infoboxes before, but there are so many I think they merit their own infobox. Other opinions? deisenbe ( talk) 18:01, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
The opening section contains the line "The purpose was to enforce white supremacy and intimidate blacks by racial terrorism".
But later it is said that some blacks lynched other blacks; many whites were victims too. And other races were also victims.
So the first line above cannot be wholly true. Indeed it cannot even be mostly true, since later in the article it says that most victims were accused of some actual crime e.g. murder or rape.
Suggest changing the line to: 'In many cases the underlying purpose is now believed to have been to enforce white supremacy and intimidate blacks by racial terrorism'. Cassandra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.74.33.85 ( talk) 20:47, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
The photographs should be taken down and replaced with other images. One of the main ways lynching operated as a systematic rather than individualized form of racial terror was in photographs. The continual reproduction and circulation of images of Black pain was meant to re-terrorize the Black American community and extend individual events into a visual form of terror. More information can be found here https://eji.org/racial-justice/legacy-lynching. The recent Legacy of Lynching exhibit by the Equal Justice Initiative, despite focusing intensely on the history of lynching from a visual perspective, chose not to redisplay any images of lynched people as an act of respect and in efforts to not further racist visual culture; the Wikipedia article should do the same. 71.224.209.70 ( talk) 04:15, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 08:33, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
I think it meets the definition and should be called so; he died from the attack, although months later. I just posted Lynching of John Shillady. Another user disagrees and renamed it. Your input on Talk:Attack on John Shillady wwould be appreciated. deisenbe ( talk) 01:14, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Text and references copied from Lynching in the United States] to Lynching postcards. See former article's history for a list of contributors. 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 13:48, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
I think these should be merged under the heading of Bibliography. I can't see any purpose served by having two sections. Comments? deisenbe ( talk) 12:09, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I am not from America and am looking into this topic for a report at school. When did lynching become "more than just hanging"? There is a weird quotation in the article stating that "Lynching is more than just hanging" that goes unattributed to anyone speaking. THe citation for it is 2019. And 2019 seems to be the year when this article has been changed to turn lynching into any and all murder against black people in the US. Can someone clarify for me when lynching became used for more than just lynching? Because outside the US the word lynching is synonymous with hanging. Extra judicial killings are called extra judicial killings, extra judicial killings by hanging are called lynching. I'm trying to understand when the word changed in the USA because it seems to be very recently adapted. Is there any older source for this prior to the one that is used in 2019? THank you. -- 121.210.33.50 ( talk) 22:01, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
While this article does an estimable job of treating lynchings of black men as a terror phenomenon after the Civil War, it pays almost no attention to any other variety of lynching, such as of suspected lawbreakers on the frontier (accused cattle rustlers, for example) or of Mormon polygamists (such as Joseph Smith) before the flight to Utah. What is the reason for this omission? It seems almost intentional. -- Piledhigheranddeeper ( talk) 18:05, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
As a Brit with no horse in the race (no pun intended) it does strike me that the sentence which reads: "The purpose was to enforce white supremacy and intimidate blacks through racial terrorism" is both subjective and misleading.
Firstly 25% of lynching were of non-African Americans. Secondly the later assertion that one third were 'wrongly accused' implies that two thirds were guilty of serious crimes. And thirdly many of the individual events now categorized as 'lynching' might be equally-well described common murders.
It follows that motives must have been mixed, and that no single blanket explanation can be true. And we certainly cannot read the minds of people long-dead.
It might therefore be better to qualify the sentence, perhaps something like: "Today it is widely believed that the underlying reason for many, perhaps most, lynchings was to enforce white supremacy and intimidate blacks through racial terrorism". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.13.79.121 ( talk) 13:57, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
There are issues with the paragraph that cites Michael Pfeifer.
First, let's address the easy one: the use of "bellum" is a romanticizing whitewash of the American civil war - a conflict that's increasingly and properly recognized as having been instigated to preserve the economics of white supremacy.
Second, it's a gross mischaracterization to ascribe to post-civil-war lynching a general motivation *other* than white terrorism of emancipated slaves. The notion that, in the post-reconstruction South, white complainants were routinely denied justice against African American defendants is laughable (which is not to say that, during reconstruction, whites suffered routine injustice at the hands of their former slaves).
Third, ascribing the decline in lynching to a "renovation" of the death penalty is another grotesque whitewash of what, for African American men, is more justly described as institutionalized lynching. The statistically significant (read *huge*) divergence between whites and African Americans in terms of judicial outcomes puts the lie any other interpretation.
Finally, it would seem prudent to include the perspectives of at least one prominent historian from the African American community, rather than relying solely on a white guy from the whitest corner of the country.
The segment in question:
'According to Michael Pfeifer, the prevalence of lynching in postbellum America reflects a lack of confidence in the "due process" judicial system. He links the decline in lynching in the early twentieth century with "the advent of the modern death penalty": "legislators renovated the death penalty...out of direct concern for the alternative of mob violence".' Jmsebold ( talk) 02:18, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
I agree with having one or two as an example, but this many feels kind of disgusting, especially given how graphic the subject matter is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 6442TheOtherKing ( talk • contribs) 15:21, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
→ I agree. I came here trying to get information about the legal history of it as a concept, and I can't read because it's surrounded by incredibly distracting disturbing imagery. I can understand wanting them prominent so that readers can truly appreciate the horror, but it also seems to completely undermine the rest of the article by making it so difficult to actually read as a result. Is there a way for wiki to like blur NSFL images until mouseover or something? 100.19.136.107 ( talk) 22:02, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
Hah! I am on a school computer, you have no idea how paranoid I was skimming the article trying to dodge gore pics worried I was going to get in trouble! Blurring NSFL pics is a good idea though I wish they had something like that for people using it for school work. -- 121.210.33.50 ( talk) 22:03, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
I came to the talk page to bring this up. It's pretty nonstandard - other articles about inherently graphic topics like hanging, flaying, crucifixion, and impalement all use artistic depictions as their leading images, with photographs mostly within the body of the article. Having so many graphic pictures at the very top of the page is pretty dehumanizing and reminds me of, say, how news coverage of police violence (at least in America, where I am) overuses footage of black people being killed on camera. Luiysia ( talk) 21:09, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
I think the murder of James Byrd Jr. is a hate crime but not a lynching because nobody accused him of a crime. I think for a murder to be called a lynching it has to be extrajudicial punishment or vengeance for something the victim was accused of doing.
The Wikipedia article states that Teddy Roosevelt was an anti lynching advocate. This is false. In 1891 he openly condoned the lynching of eleven Italian immigrants who had been lynched in New Orleans after having20:54, 19 January 2021 (UTC) 71.233.55.162 ( talk) either been found not guilty or had their cases dismissed for lack of evidence in the murder of a local police chief.
Monday we dined at the Camerons; various dago diplomats were present, all much wrought up by the lynching of the Italians in New Orleans. Personally I think it rather a good thing, and said so. [2]
" Dimadick ( talk) 12:02, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 February 2019 and 3 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rurbina1.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
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Any thoughts ? Rsk6400 ( talk) 15:06, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Nettless: While I was busy tidying up this really chaotical article, I didn't see that you restored the Myrdal source. Instead I thought that I had forgotton to delete some instances of it. This just as an explanation for why I reverted you without giving an adequate answer to your concerns.
You are probably right that Myrdal's book was influential at the time it was published. But after it, nearly 80 years of intensive research passed. Many results of this research (e.g. the complete debunking of the concept of different races, the connections between slavery, the Lost Cause mythology, and white supremacy) were unknown to Myrdal. In short: Over time, Myrdal has become a primary source (see WP:PSTS). For an estimate on how many victims were "falsely accused", we need newer sources (which would probably give even higher numbers for innocent victims, given that some prominent cases have been re-investigated). The idea that lynchings served as a "disciplinary device against the Negro group" is so well established that Myrdal is just a repetition. If you know of a good secondary source for the importance of Myrdal's book, we could (and should) add it to the part dealing with resistance against lynchings. -- Rsk6400 ( talk) 12:07, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Especially in scientific and academic fields, older sources may be inaccurate because new information has been brought to light, new theories proposed, or vocabulary changed.Concepts of a biological differences between the races were not finally debunked until the 1990s. About the rest, I didn't say that it was totally unknown to Myrdal, but that "many results" were unknown to him.
The postcards section would benefit from some context. Postcards are a byproduct of spectacle lynching, which has been discussed in several sources:
-- Jaireeodell ( talk) 17:23, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Planning to add a section that details lynchings that occurred in the Midwest since there is a section on the West. Will also move the text about Minnesota into the Midwest section instead of in the West. Willowhist ( talk) 17:22, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Lynching Bristol Tenn not Bristol VA
https://library.artstor.org/public/SS7730736_7730736_9810317
Triple Lynching VA
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=WPhv8xPE&id=CAD1B04634C51190623696A152E339A7805DEF06&thid=OIP.WPhv8xPEmRd1LkWLn5EvUgHaLX&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fencyclopediavirginia.org%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2020%2f11%2f10405_20daab7df0ef8a3-768x1179.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.58f86ff313c49917752e458b9f912f52%3frik%3dBu9dgKc541Khlg%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=1179&expw=768&q=Lynching+Bristol+Virginia+Photograph&simid=608048527665355703&FORM=IRPRST&ck=AA8E87B151AA08EFEB7EC9AFDCF68EDF&selectedIndex=18&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0
https://encyclopediavirginia.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/10405_20daab7df0ef8a3-768x1179.jpg
Hillard Lynching Tyler Texas
https://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/stereo/item/2015645597/
1907 Higgins Lynching Nebraska
https://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/stereo/item/2022640601/ — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
72.49.132.132 (
talk)
02:05, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 January 2022 and 8 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Willowhist, 21gaf ( article contribs). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 21gaf ( talk • contribs) 17:28, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
Wasn't it Italians and Asians? 98.159.37.250 ( talk) 17:48, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Salem witch trials counts as lynching in pre U.S. America. 2600:1012:B041:6E66:A8C0:B40C:B24:DE7F ( talk) 04:00, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
[1] I think it's possible this might be inaccurate and possibly a bit WP:WEASEL. To my recollection, the book makes it quite clear that Tom was killed trying to escape. Would you please quote the passage that supports your claim here? Thanks. DN ( talk) 21:18, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
Please stop removing the cited source. The quotes you "couldn't find" are all there...the rest of that section is not a "quote".
Quotes from the article that are in the pages mentioned... [2]
DN ( talk) 20:08, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
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This article on the history of lynching in America has been hijacked by liberals to overwhelmingly emphasize, in every minute gruesome detail, white on black lynching, minimize and discount white on white lynching, and totally ignore black on black, and black on white lynching. It has many, many references to the race of black victims and the race of the white perpetrators, along with the vast majority of photographs depicting dead black victims, cherry picked for their shock value, with minutely detailed horrific descriptions posted to elicit outrage in the viewer. Photographs of any of the victims of those who were lynched and the horrific details on how they met their end is swept under the rug. It would greatly benefit 'subjective' editing. However, since this is the PC Victimist's Sacred Cow and political Ace-in-the-Hole, subjectivism, unless it is the lock-step 'politically correct subjectivism', will simply not be allowed.
Not that it matters here, but for what it is worth (and here it won't be worth much if anything at all), an excellent book that has a truly subjective historical view of lynching in America is the following: 'Lynching: History and Analysis', by Prof. Dewight D. Murphey. For those of us who have read it realize just how politically biased this Wikipedia article is.
While abuse and the lynching of innocent blacks occurred for reasons of racial animus, the majority were not. This was how much of early America (just as in many villages in Africa today) dealt with crime in their communities. Many of these places were small tight nit communities in which everyone knew everyone else, including the accused, well enough to have a far better knowledge of guilt or innocence than some liberal bleeding heart apologists 100 years after the fact.
Funny I never here liberals get all hot and bothered over the supposed innocence of the many whites who were lynched during the same period, or the many whites and non-black minorities who were/are lynched by some blacks in the present day. Or even the many blacks who are lynched by fellow blacks in Africa now!
When looking at history out side the PC filters, far more white were lynched in the history of Europe than blacks in the United States. And far more whites were lynched in the history of United states than blacks. When you take the following non-PC facts into consideration:
1. The excepted number of blacks lynched as compiled by the NAACP and the Tuskegee Institute deals with the years 1882 and 1951 at '4,730 people were lynched in the United States: 3,437 Black and 1,293 White'. Those were the years in which the highest number of black lynching were recorded. What isn't mentioned is that prior to black emancipation few blacks were lynched as they were protected private property, and that the vast majority of people lynched from the creation of this country as a nation and up to black emancipation, were white.
2. In the Western Frontier the vast majority of those who were lynched were white. Numbers are considered greatly underestimated due to the lack of records and interest at the time (people didn't get all upset when white criminals were done away with to even care. The fact that they were permanently removed from society was good enough for most). Papers would often report lynching of white desperadoes without mentioning their names while giving scant details.
3. It has been estimated that black criminals murder and lynch more (truly known innocent) whites every two years than blacks that were ever lynched in the last 100 years. When multiplying that number over the past 50 years we are looking at 10's of thousands of white men, woman, and children who have been murdered and lynched, some in the most horrific ways imaginable. Their photos along with horrifically detailed descriptions on how they died will never be allowed here.
"People often resorted to lynching because the competent authorities were a long ride away and justice would brook no delay. Prof. Murphey reminds us that President Andrew Jackson himself sanctioned the practice when he recommended to Iowa settlers that they lynch murderers. Likewise in Kansas, a New York Tribune correspondent reported in 1858 that "[t]here is a very general disposition to pass over the hopelessly useless forms of Territorial law and corrupt Federal courts, and try these parties (i.e. horse-thieves) by Lynch law."
Prof. Murphey notes that contrary to current assumptions, blacks also formed lynch gangs, mostly to lynch blacks, but sometimes to lynch whites:
In Clarksdale, Tennessee, blacks lynched a white in 1914 for raping a black woman. The authorities later ruled that this was justifiable homicide.
In 1872 in Chicot County, Arkansas, armed blacks broke three whites out of jail and shot them to death.
Nor was lynching by any means a sport in which any black was fair game:
In Tennessee in 1911, four white men hanged a black man and his two daughters but for no good reason. This outrage roused the ire of the community; the whites were tried and two were hanged." -Thomas Jackson, excerpt, review of 'Lynching: History and Analysis', by Prof. Dewight D. Murphey.
But why is such a lopsided and emotional view of only one side of the history of Lynching in America allowed? Prof. William J. Bennetta of the Text Book Legue, explains:
“Wherever multiculturalism goes, it brings Victimism with it. Victimism is an integral part of the multi-culti ideological package, and its practitioners, whom we may call Victimists, have two principal concerns: They invent fake stories and images that are intended to bring sympathy, admiration, glory and political advantage to groups of people who have been officially designated as Victims by the multi-culti establishment; and they strive to disseminate their fake stories and images in the guise of “history.”
The Victims are always groups, not individuals. This isn’t surprising, because all multi-culti ideology revolves around tribalism, the rejection of individualism, and the doctrine that a person’s primary identity is his group identity — i.e., the tribe to which he belongs.
In practice, all the principal tribes turn out to be racial or quasiracial groups, which are defined in terms of their real or imaginary ancestries. Among the racial groups represented in the population of the United States, two have not merely been certified as Victims but have also been selected for especially lavish treatment by the Victimists. These groups — Amerindians and American blacks — figure prominently in the multi-culti version of “American history,” where they are sanitized and glorified beyond recognition, and are depicted as the hapless prey of evil white men.
Sanitization is an indispensable part of this endeavor, because certified Victims must always be depicted as innocent, righteous paragons of humanity. The sanitization process consists largely of hiding or denying any facts which show that the Victims had victims of their own, whom they slaughtered, displaced, subjugated, enslaved or exploited." -Prof. William J. Bennetta, EXCERPT from ‘The Textbook Letter’, from July-August 1998. Historicalhonesty 21:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
-- Ahem --
'...Trial juries in the southeastern United States were typically all-white and would not vote to convict lynchers. Often juries never let the matter go past the inquest...'
Perhaps -- but that the sole example provided concerns events in Port Jervis, New York doesn't exactly support the claim. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.199.136.135 ( talk) 06:43, August 23, 2007 (UTC)
This talk page is getting hard to manage, and that’s because it is at least 728kb. I suggest that we follow the talk page guidelines, which recommend archiving when it exceeds 75 KB. There are several ways to achieve this purpose, and for me, it seems that the automatic mode is the best for a talk page like this one, which does not need too much attention, but it is still busier than most. What method do you suggest? Historiador ( talk) 07:39, 30 November 2015 (UTC) Reformatting paragraph Historiador ( talk) 07:41, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Before reverting changes done by an IP address, I would like to gauge sentiments about this issue among people working on this article. The changes I am referring took away Adam Hudson’s suggestions that the police’ current treatment of Black men suggests similarities to lynching. The first issue I have against the change is that the sentence that was deleted did not say anything wrong. It only made reference to Hudson's suggestion. The source, differently to what the IP user commented, it is reliable: it is the main place where Hudson writes from.
Moreover, Hudson’s suggestion is a topic that has been widely discussed among experts, empirical and academic publications, some of which I noted below. Among experts, there is already a consensus about the existence of a correlation (though no consensus about its meaning or its manifestations). To ignore the discussion of this connections in this article is to either ignore the reality of the discussion or/and to side with a mostly non-academic camp of it—none of these steps are part of WP’s mission (to ignore or to side). Some of the sources:
1- Embrick, David G. "Two Nations, Revisited: The Lynching of Black and Brown Bodies, Police Brutality, and Racial Control in ‘Post-Racial’Amerikkka." Critical Sociology 41, no. 6 (2015): 835-843.
2- Cooper, Hannah LF. "War on drugs policing and police brutality." Substance use & misuse 50, no. 8-9 (2015): 1-7.
3- Rogers, Arneta. "How Police Brutality Harms Mothers: Linking Police Violence to the Reproductive Justice Movement." Hastings Race & Poverty LJ 12 (2015): 205-235.
4- Smith, Selena. "The Modern Day parallel of Racist Police Murders to Lynching." In 143rd APHA Annual Meeting and Expo (Oct. 31-Nov. 4, 2015). APHA, 2015.
5- Butler, Paul. "Stop and Frisk and Torture-Lite: Police Terror of Minority Communities." Ohio St. J. Crim. L. 12 (2014): 57.
Thanks for your views Historiador ( talk) 02:02, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Closed by mutual consent
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Hello! I was invited to comment on this discussion by Dennishidalgo who chose me because I'm an active editor. I'm a librarian and I try not to act in bias on Wiki or in my job. However, I should disclose that I have a liberal bent, which you can easily tell from my userpage or my edits. I'll try not to let my "liberal cooties" poison the discussion. LOL That said, I spent time reading the information that Dennis provided and it looks sound. There seems to be significant reason to revert the edit. Plus, he's looking to revert a sentence from the article, not write an entire WP:COATRACK. There are already sections that involve police complicity, such as here in the article itself. I have to suspect that there are racial motivations for not wanting to include modern police tactics and lynching. It's a sensitive subject, true, but we don't live in a post-racial world and if police are unlawfully working together against non-whites either in the past or today, that should be mentioned. Five articles is a good start to show that it's not fringe. Also, the term "Driving while Black" is a good anecdotal place to start realizing that people aren't treated equally in the U.S. Anyway, I'm not trying to ignite the discussion, I think that both of you have made good points and have kept the talk page area civil and that is awesome. Megalibrarygirl ( talk) 22:01, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
@
Megalibrarygirl: From my position, you are a mega-help. You took the time to read the material I submitted, and your conclusions helped me see I was not alone. Thanks.
@
Berean Hunter: Thanks for your most recent
presence among us. You are correct. With experience in these matters comes a better sense of time. Yet, I also followed good judgment by seeking advice. I agree to collapse this subthread if @
Megalibrarygirl: has no objection either.
Historiador (
talk)
08:48, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
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I just wanted to note, as to readability and overall feel of accuracy, that this article needs some major work done. Unfortunately, I lack the knowledge or time to fix this whole thing. Perhaps someone can put one of those banners that solicits help to build a better article at the top of the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.182.24.159 ( talk) 09:16, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
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As per banner, worked to shorten Lead and make more concise. More detailed material in article. Parkwells ( talk) 19:17, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
Given that blacks were victims of lynchings by a rate of many times that of any other ethnic group, it seems inappropriate to have a photo of a lynched non-black man leading the article. I suggest another be put in its place. Parkwells ( talk) 18:32, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
Even though blacks were disproportionally the targets of lynchings, to exclude photos of the lynching of others would encourage a misrepresentation of history. MarkSonntag ( talk) 15:01, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Lynching and political violence have a much bigger role in American than just its manifestations against blacks. Well documented, in easily available sources, are the attacks that were carried out against Mormons. [1]. From my readings, I am aware, (but it is extremely hard to find documentation), that the political violence that became common in the South of the post Civil War period was used in at various times and places in the Antebellum South as various white factions battled each other for control of their states. MarkSonntag ( talk) 15:07, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
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I think this section should be flagged for a re-write, potentially using the main article on disenfranchisement. Many of its statements lack citations, and some lines make no sense, especially in the intro section. For example: "Thousands of workers were brought in by planters to do lumbering and work on levees." This sentence is a stand alone paragraph, with no explanation or citation. Perhaps someone else knows why its there, or what the original author meant? Also, the next paragraph, discussing rates of lynching seems poorly written and alongside the preceding paragraphs focuses heavily on the Mississippi delta and neglects the rest of the South or US. CaptainEek ( talk) 06:52, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
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Postscript to external link Without Santuary
Up to a few years ago there was an internet website of a collection of lynching pictures from the book of the same name of "Without Santuary". This website no longer exists..however while it did about twenty of the pictures were unknown as to circumstances...through research about a dozen were updated as to circumstances...a link to notes is at https://civilwartalk.com/threads/a-post-civil-war-legacy-lynching-warning-graphic-accounts-and-pictures.118468/
For example one postcard printed in a Midwest state stated the victium was lynched for killing a policeman named Collins...in fact the slain officer was Charles Collis of Springfield Oh in March 1904!
Note: As before the website is no longer online so please use the book in companion with these notes
Warning these are very Graphic Pictures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.5.93.122 ( talk) 13:57, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
I've never been involved this way with infoboxes before, but there are so many I think they merit their own infobox. Other opinions? deisenbe ( talk) 18:01, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
The opening section contains the line "The purpose was to enforce white supremacy and intimidate blacks by racial terrorism".
But later it is said that some blacks lynched other blacks; many whites were victims too. And other races were also victims.
So the first line above cannot be wholly true. Indeed it cannot even be mostly true, since later in the article it says that most victims were accused of some actual crime e.g. murder or rape.
Suggest changing the line to: 'In many cases the underlying purpose is now believed to have been to enforce white supremacy and intimidate blacks by racial terrorism'. Cassandra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.74.33.85 ( talk) 20:47, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
The photographs should be taken down and replaced with other images. One of the main ways lynching operated as a systematic rather than individualized form of racial terror was in photographs. The continual reproduction and circulation of images of Black pain was meant to re-terrorize the Black American community and extend individual events into a visual form of terror. More information can be found here https://eji.org/racial-justice/legacy-lynching. The recent Legacy of Lynching exhibit by the Equal Justice Initiative, despite focusing intensely on the history of lynching from a visual perspective, chose not to redisplay any images of lynched people as an act of respect and in efforts to not further racist visual culture; the Wikipedia article should do the same. 71.224.209.70 ( talk) 04:15, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 08:33, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
I think it meets the definition and should be called so; he died from the attack, although months later. I just posted Lynching of John Shillady. Another user disagrees and renamed it. Your input on Talk:Attack on John Shillady wwould be appreciated. deisenbe ( talk) 01:14, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Text and references copied from Lynching in the United States] to Lynching postcards. See former article's history for a list of contributors. 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 13:48, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
I think these should be merged under the heading of Bibliography. I can't see any purpose served by having two sections. Comments? deisenbe ( talk) 12:09, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I am not from America and am looking into this topic for a report at school. When did lynching become "more than just hanging"? There is a weird quotation in the article stating that "Lynching is more than just hanging" that goes unattributed to anyone speaking. THe citation for it is 2019. And 2019 seems to be the year when this article has been changed to turn lynching into any and all murder against black people in the US. Can someone clarify for me when lynching became used for more than just lynching? Because outside the US the word lynching is synonymous with hanging. Extra judicial killings are called extra judicial killings, extra judicial killings by hanging are called lynching. I'm trying to understand when the word changed in the USA because it seems to be very recently adapted. Is there any older source for this prior to the one that is used in 2019? THank you. -- 121.210.33.50 ( talk) 22:01, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
While this article does an estimable job of treating lynchings of black men as a terror phenomenon after the Civil War, it pays almost no attention to any other variety of lynching, such as of suspected lawbreakers on the frontier (accused cattle rustlers, for example) or of Mormon polygamists (such as Joseph Smith) before the flight to Utah. What is the reason for this omission? It seems almost intentional. -- Piledhigheranddeeper ( talk) 18:05, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
As a Brit with no horse in the race (no pun intended) it does strike me that the sentence which reads: "The purpose was to enforce white supremacy and intimidate blacks through racial terrorism" is both subjective and misleading.
Firstly 25% of lynching were of non-African Americans. Secondly the later assertion that one third were 'wrongly accused' implies that two thirds were guilty of serious crimes. And thirdly many of the individual events now categorized as 'lynching' might be equally-well described common murders.
It follows that motives must have been mixed, and that no single blanket explanation can be true. And we certainly cannot read the minds of people long-dead.
It might therefore be better to qualify the sentence, perhaps something like: "Today it is widely believed that the underlying reason for many, perhaps most, lynchings was to enforce white supremacy and intimidate blacks through racial terrorism". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.13.79.121 ( talk) 13:57, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
There are issues with the paragraph that cites Michael Pfeifer.
First, let's address the easy one: the use of "bellum" is a romanticizing whitewash of the American civil war - a conflict that's increasingly and properly recognized as having been instigated to preserve the economics of white supremacy.
Second, it's a gross mischaracterization to ascribe to post-civil-war lynching a general motivation *other* than white terrorism of emancipated slaves. The notion that, in the post-reconstruction South, white complainants were routinely denied justice against African American defendants is laughable (which is not to say that, during reconstruction, whites suffered routine injustice at the hands of their former slaves).
Third, ascribing the decline in lynching to a "renovation" of the death penalty is another grotesque whitewash of what, for African American men, is more justly described as institutionalized lynching. The statistically significant (read *huge*) divergence between whites and African Americans in terms of judicial outcomes puts the lie any other interpretation.
Finally, it would seem prudent to include the perspectives of at least one prominent historian from the African American community, rather than relying solely on a white guy from the whitest corner of the country.
The segment in question:
'According to Michael Pfeifer, the prevalence of lynching in postbellum America reflects a lack of confidence in the "due process" judicial system. He links the decline in lynching in the early twentieth century with "the advent of the modern death penalty": "legislators renovated the death penalty...out of direct concern for the alternative of mob violence".' Jmsebold ( talk) 02:18, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
I agree with having one or two as an example, but this many feels kind of disgusting, especially given how graphic the subject matter is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 6442TheOtherKing ( talk • contribs) 15:21, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
→ I agree. I came here trying to get information about the legal history of it as a concept, and I can't read because it's surrounded by incredibly distracting disturbing imagery. I can understand wanting them prominent so that readers can truly appreciate the horror, but it also seems to completely undermine the rest of the article by making it so difficult to actually read as a result. Is there a way for wiki to like blur NSFL images until mouseover or something? 100.19.136.107 ( talk) 22:02, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
Hah! I am on a school computer, you have no idea how paranoid I was skimming the article trying to dodge gore pics worried I was going to get in trouble! Blurring NSFL pics is a good idea though I wish they had something like that for people using it for school work. -- 121.210.33.50 ( talk) 22:03, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
I came to the talk page to bring this up. It's pretty nonstandard - other articles about inherently graphic topics like hanging, flaying, crucifixion, and impalement all use artistic depictions as their leading images, with photographs mostly within the body of the article. Having so many graphic pictures at the very top of the page is pretty dehumanizing and reminds me of, say, how news coverage of police violence (at least in America, where I am) overuses footage of black people being killed on camera. Luiysia ( talk) 21:09, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
I think the murder of James Byrd Jr. is a hate crime but not a lynching because nobody accused him of a crime. I think for a murder to be called a lynching it has to be extrajudicial punishment or vengeance for something the victim was accused of doing.
The Wikipedia article states that Teddy Roosevelt was an anti lynching advocate. This is false. In 1891 he openly condoned the lynching of eleven Italian immigrants who had been lynched in New Orleans after having20:54, 19 January 2021 (UTC) 71.233.55.162 ( talk) either been found not guilty or had their cases dismissed for lack of evidence in the murder of a local police chief.
Monday we dined at the Camerons; various dago diplomats were present, all much wrought up by the lynching of the Italians in New Orleans. Personally I think it rather a good thing, and said so. [2]
" Dimadick ( talk) 12:02, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 February 2019 and 3 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rurbina1.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
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Any thoughts ? Rsk6400 ( talk) 15:06, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Nettless: While I was busy tidying up this really chaotical article, I didn't see that you restored the Myrdal source. Instead I thought that I had forgotton to delete some instances of it. This just as an explanation for why I reverted you without giving an adequate answer to your concerns.
You are probably right that Myrdal's book was influential at the time it was published. But after it, nearly 80 years of intensive research passed. Many results of this research (e.g. the complete debunking of the concept of different races, the connections between slavery, the Lost Cause mythology, and white supremacy) were unknown to Myrdal. In short: Over time, Myrdal has become a primary source (see WP:PSTS). For an estimate on how many victims were "falsely accused", we need newer sources (which would probably give even higher numbers for innocent victims, given that some prominent cases have been re-investigated). The idea that lynchings served as a "disciplinary device against the Negro group" is so well established that Myrdal is just a repetition. If you know of a good secondary source for the importance of Myrdal's book, we could (and should) add it to the part dealing with resistance against lynchings. -- Rsk6400 ( talk) 12:07, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Especially in scientific and academic fields, older sources may be inaccurate because new information has been brought to light, new theories proposed, or vocabulary changed.Concepts of a biological differences between the races were not finally debunked until the 1990s. About the rest, I didn't say that it was totally unknown to Myrdal, but that "many results" were unknown to him.
The postcards section would benefit from some context. Postcards are a byproduct of spectacle lynching, which has been discussed in several sources:
-- Jaireeodell ( talk) 17:23, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Planning to add a section that details lynchings that occurred in the Midwest since there is a section on the West. Will also move the text about Minnesota into the Midwest section instead of in the West. Willowhist ( talk) 17:22, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Lynching Bristol Tenn not Bristol VA
https://library.artstor.org/public/SS7730736_7730736_9810317
Triple Lynching VA
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=WPhv8xPE&id=CAD1B04634C51190623696A152E339A7805DEF06&thid=OIP.WPhv8xPEmRd1LkWLn5EvUgHaLX&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fencyclopediavirginia.org%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2020%2f11%2f10405_20daab7df0ef8a3-768x1179.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.58f86ff313c49917752e458b9f912f52%3frik%3dBu9dgKc541Khlg%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=1179&expw=768&q=Lynching+Bristol+Virginia+Photograph&simid=608048527665355703&FORM=IRPRST&ck=AA8E87B151AA08EFEB7EC9AFDCF68EDF&selectedIndex=18&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0
https://encyclopediavirginia.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/10405_20daab7df0ef8a3-768x1179.jpg
Hillard Lynching Tyler Texas
https://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/stereo/item/2015645597/
1907 Higgins Lynching Nebraska
https://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/stereo/item/2022640601/ — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
72.49.132.132 (
talk)
02:05, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 January 2022 and 8 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Willowhist, 21gaf ( article contribs). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 21gaf ( talk • contribs) 17:28, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
Wasn't it Italians and Asians? 98.159.37.250 ( talk) 17:48, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Salem witch trials counts as lynching in pre U.S. America. 2600:1012:B041:6E66:A8C0:B40C:B24:DE7F ( talk) 04:00, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
[1] I think it's possible this might be inaccurate and possibly a bit WP:WEASEL. To my recollection, the book makes it quite clear that Tom was killed trying to escape. Would you please quote the passage that supports your claim here? Thanks. DN ( talk) 21:18, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
Please stop removing the cited source. The quotes you "couldn't find" are all there...the rest of that section is not a "quote".
Quotes from the article that are in the pages mentioned... [2]
DN ( talk) 20:08, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
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