This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lockheed bribery scandals article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on February 6, 2012, February 6, 2014, February 6, 2015, February 6, 2019, February 6, 2022, and February 6, 2023. |
In the Netherlands there was also a "Lockheed scandal", relating to the purchase of F-104G Starfighters for the airforce in which Prince Bernhard was implicated for allegedly receiving bribes from Lockheed in order to ensure the aircraft would win out over the Mirage V for the purchase contract.
Not sure if this belongs on this page or should get a page of its own.
There is little or no information about what was termed in the 1960's the "Lockheed scandal".
Where bribes were handed out for lockheed to attain contracts to supply western europe, most notably west germany, with jet fighters.
This is briefly mentioned on this page, but the redirect is to a vanilla "about lockheed" page, which has no reference to the scandal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Hartmann
And the same paragraph is repeated in the main text, but a little more information or detail might be in order from US sources, where they may now have access to information about the investigations and economic impact of the scandals.
Comments please?
- Xelous - 21st June 2007
I'd be interested in participating in this. -- John 01:54, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
There's an Italian section waiting to be written, I just ran out of steam. Anybody? If not I'll probably have a go over the next few days. -- John 03:06, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
While this article has a neutral tone it does miss out some important facts relating to the F-104 Starfighter, as it stands the reader would think that Lockheed profited from the sale of 900 (actually 916) individual aircraft to Germany. Only 136 aircraft were Lockheed built, the remainder were built via a consortium in Europe (with some parts from Canada) under license. The license was no doubt another source of income for Lockheed (which is not mentioned). Similarly in Japan, of the 220 aircraft only 23 were Lockheed built under the same arrangement. Whilst Prince Bernhard was apparently not an angel he did secure the production of 100+ Starfighters in his own country as that section suggests was his aim ($1.1 million was the price of one F-104 by coincidence). Italy is the same. Many F-104s were bought by US funds to supply other countries under the MAP programme so there was probably no need to bribe. There is a book which I have never seen which might have more detailed information: F-104 Story: "Kickback-Killer" (Diary of a starfighter). I don't know about the other aircraft types and I am not defending Lockheed's actions in any way. What I would like to do is add the production numbers (by company) to the country sections to let the reader decide. From my enquiries in Germany this is still a 'taboo' subject 45 years on. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 02:15, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
The section states that Lockheed paid Khashoggi $106M in commission, but it doesn't provide any evidence that the commissions were then used by Khashoggi to pay bribes to secure the purchase of Lockheed products (although it does seem likely). The Saudis bought C-130s and L-1011s from Lockheed, but they never bought the F-104. Mztourist ( talk) 12:54, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
This article is a stub, and probably won't become more of a stub. Its content belongs in the articles for the Lockheed Corporation and Lockheed L-1011 TriStar. Willy Logan 05:37, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
No, it was a wide-ranging scandal, with broad causes and impact, that radically changed Japan's government and changed American law; it was not merely an episode of one corporation's biography.
Please write more on this "wide-ranging scandal, with broad causes and impact, that radically changed Japan's government and changed American law" That's exactly what I was searching for and could not find. Maybe the title should change to "Lockheed Scandals". -- Billyjoejimbob42 23:41, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Do we want coverage of Hartmann's objection (which I wasn't able to source)? What about the F-104's safety record in service? I commented out the former for now. -- John 04:08, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lockheed bribery scandals article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on February 6, 2012, February 6, 2014, February 6, 2015, February 6, 2019, February 6, 2022, and February 6, 2023. |
In the Netherlands there was also a "Lockheed scandal", relating to the purchase of F-104G Starfighters for the airforce in which Prince Bernhard was implicated for allegedly receiving bribes from Lockheed in order to ensure the aircraft would win out over the Mirage V for the purchase contract.
Not sure if this belongs on this page or should get a page of its own.
There is little or no information about what was termed in the 1960's the "Lockheed scandal".
Where bribes were handed out for lockheed to attain contracts to supply western europe, most notably west germany, with jet fighters.
This is briefly mentioned on this page, but the redirect is to a vanilla "about lockheed" page, which has no reference to the scandal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Hartmann
And the same paragraph is repeated in the main text, but a little more information or detail might be in order from US sources, where they may now have access to information about the investigations and economic impact of the scandals.
Comments please?
- Xelous - 21st June 2007
I'd be interested in participating in this. -- John 01:54, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
There's an Italian section waiting to be written, I just ran out of steam. Anybody? If not I'll probably have a go over the next few days. -- John 03:06, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
While this article has a neutral tone it does miss out some important facts relating to the F-104 Starfighter, as it stands the reader would think that Lockheed profited from the sale of 900 (actually 916) individual aircraft to Germany. Only 136 aircraft were Lockheed built, the remainder were built via a consortium in Europe (with some parts from Canada) under license. The license was no doubt another source of income for Lockheed (which is not mentioned). Similarly in Japan, of the 220 aircraft only 23 were Lockheed built under the same arrangement. Whilst Prince Bernhard was apparently not an angel he did secure the production of 100+ Starfighters in his own country as that section suggests was his aim ($1.1 million was the price of one F-104 by coincidence). Italy is the same. Many F-104s were bought by US funds to supply other countries under the MAP programme so there was probably no need to bribe. There is a book which I have never seen which might have more detailed information: F-104 Story: "Kickback-Killer" (Diary of a starfighter). I don't know about the other aircraft types and I am not defending Lockheed's actions in any way. What I would like to do is add the production numbers (by company) to the country sections to let the reader decide. From my enquiries in Germany this is still a 'taboo' subject 45 years on. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 02:15, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
The section states that Lockheed paid Khashoggi $106M in commission, but it doesn't provide any evidence that the commissions were then used by Khashoggi to pay bribes to secure the purchase of Lockheed products (although it does seem likely). The Saudis bought C-130s and L-1011s from Lockheed, but they never bought the F-104. Mztourist ( talk) 12:54, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
This article is a stub, and probably won't become more of a stub. Its content belongs in the articles for the Lockheed Corporation and Lockheed L-1011 TriStar. Willy Logan 05:37, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
No, it was a wide-ranging scandal, with broad causes and impact, that radically changed Japan's government and changed American law; it was not merely an episode of one corporation's biography.
Please write more on this "wide-ranging scandal, with broad causes and impact, that radically changed Japan's government and changed American law" That's exactly what I was searching for and could not find. Maybe the title should change to "Lockheed Scandals". -- Billyjoejimbob42 23:41, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Do we want coverage of Hartmann's objection (which I wasn't able to source)? What about the F-104's safety record in service? I commented out the former for now. -- John 04:08, 12 July 2007 (UTC)