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This is an excellent initiative and will certainly help to encourage coverage of female architects. Two problems for the time being: I note that the list is built essentially on articles in Category:Women architects. Unfortunately this has not been used systematically. In the case of Denmark, for example, there are several articles which needed to be added (see the revised list). The other problem is that the list does not include red links, i.e. the names of female architects who deserve English WP articles, including some of those included in the other language Wikipedias but not yet in English. Again to take Denmark as an example, I would emphasise the need to include Eva Koppel (1916-2006), Karen Clemmensen ((1917-2001), Ragna Grubb (1903-1961) and Hanne Kjærholm (1930-2009) for a start. I know that some lists are restricted to existing articles but in this case I think it would be useful to include red links too, adding these names to the list for Denmark. Any views on this? Should they be included in chronological order with the blue links or should there be a separate section for the red links? (See also discussions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Architecture.) - Ipigott ( talk) 10:13, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The list now contains a substantial number of red links. Would it be a good idea, as Elekhh suggests on the WP Architecture talk page, to create a development page for these at, for example Wikipedia:WikiProject Architecture/List of female architects? Are there any that could be quickly transformed into stubs? - Ipigott ( talk) 08:32, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
A large number of uncited redlinks have appeared for Germany in particular. I see Ipigott has weeded out some of them, which is good. Obviously Wikipedia shouldn't cite itself and many German WP articles are unsourced. Personally I'd be inclined to give the redlinks a period of 'grace' to see whether (sourced) articles are written in English. But in-depth sources for some of them are hard to find! Sionk ( talk) 20:14, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
This argument has been raging on the
Wikiproject Architecture Talk page. I originally listed the architects by nationality because this seems to be a more meaningful way of presenting the information - for example it is possible to see the geographical spread, 'firsts' for each geographical area. There are a small number of prominent architects that have been born, educated and lived for a time in one country, but known better for their work in another country. Some of these, for example Zaha Hadid and Denise Scott Brown, I've listed twice. But there are very few of them.
To list chronologically I think would be a mistake. Almost no women architects were active before the 20th century. Would two long lists by century (20th/21st) be meaningful or navigable? Listing by century is okay for lists that cover a considerable historical period, but I believe we need to 'think out of the box' here. Alternative suggestions more than welcome!
Sionk (
talk)
17:19, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Another option would be to use a table with multiple, sortable fields. By clicking on the field you want it to sort by, you can change the order of items in the list. Click on "Name", and it'll sort alphabetically by last name (I've inserted hidden sort keys to make this work); click on "Dates" and it will sort chronologically by birth date, etc. In this example I've put continents in front of countries so that the present order we have is preserved. Note that the first click sorts it by ascending order, the second by descending order.
Name | Continent / Nationality | Dates | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
Sarah Calburn | Africa / South Africa | 1964- | |
Lin Huiyin | Asia / China | 1904-1955 | First known Chinese female architect |
Sheila Sri Prakash | Asia / India | 1955- | First woman in India to have started her own architectural firm. |
Katrin Koov | Europe / Estonia | 1973- | Large public projects since 2000 |
Dörte Gatermann | Europe / Germany | 1956- | Triangle Tower in Cologne |
Marion Mahony Griffin | North America / United States | 1871-1961 | One of the first licensed female architects in the world. |
This is just a small example, but you get the idea. Everyone gets their way. Litho derm 23:35, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Name | Continent | Nationality | Dates | Notes |
---|---|---|---|---|
Sarah Calburn | Africa | South Africa | 1964- | |
Lin Huiyin | Asia | China | 1904-1955 | First known Chinese female architect |
Sheila Sri Prakash | Asia | India | 1955- | First woman in India to have started her own architectural firm. |
Katrin Koov | Europe | Estonia | 1973- | Large public projects since 2000 |
Dörte Gatermann | Europe | Germany | 1956- | Triangle Tower in Cologne |
Marion Mahony Griffin | North America | United States | 1871-1961 | One of the first licensed female architects in the world. |
This is another example with continents and nations split into two different fields... Litho derm 05:01, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
While most of the rest of the world has now been covered pretty well, there are still over 40 names under the United States which need to be upgraded from red links. All of them have at least a basic reference which should facilitate writing stubs for a start. Perhaps the job can be completed by the end of March, Women's History month? - Ipigott ( talk) 11:48, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
An interesting infographic about Women in Architecture (in the US) http://www.archdaily.com/216844/infographic-women-in-architecture/ might be of interest for those working on the article. Maybe a short intro tackling history/chronology might benefit this article. The idea of a sortable table seems a good one, now that the article seems stabilised. -- ELEKHH T 07:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
An editor has highlighted (at WikiProject Architecture) these articles which discuss women architects, Wikipedia and this list article:
http://places.designobserver.com/feature/unforgetting-women-architects-from-pritzker-to-wikipedia/37912/ mentions this list directly, pointing out how many notable women architects are still missing from it;
http://www.architectmagazine.com/architects/unforgetting-women-architects.aspx (June 2013) invites its readers to nominate women architects to write-up on Wikipedia.
All good points and excellent initiatives! Sionk ( talk) 18:56, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
The term female has (to me at least) a negative connotation. In categories at Wikipedia it is usually applied to the so-called less desirable occupations (example Category: Female prostitutes). This has been a recurring topic for discussion in the area dedicated to nomination of categories for deletion, and to be fair there are many who disagree with my point (as well as those who support it). Ottawahitech ( talk) 15:30, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
One or more editors have removed redlink items from the list. I and perhaps others would prefer to keep them. But management of a list-article could be done either way. To me and perhaps others, removal seems unnecessary: per Wikipedia guideline wp:redlinks, redlinks serve a useful purpose and help wikipedia grow. Especially with some focus on developing this list and coverage of women architects in Wikipedia, it seems unfortunate, as well-meaning new and experienced editors will find their good-faith additions removed, undermining momentum and perhaps causing mis-perception that expanded coverage is not welcome. Many list-articles do include redlinks. See wp:LISTN and wp:LSC about types of list-articles. On the other hand, some other list-articles have been managed with a rule like some want here, that only items having a wikipedia article already can be included (i.e. no redlinks). And that has proven useful in practice sometimes, in limiting non-encyclopedic mainspace material and appropriately conveying that such will not be accepted, perhaps saving time of all parties. The definition of list-item inclusion rule for any one list-article can be set by consensus of editors, and can be changed by new consensus. I myself have created a number of women architect articles but only recently began contributing directly to this list-article. I'd like to respect editors who have been managing this list-article and not fight unpleasantly about what a new inclusion rule consensus should be.
Could we simply compromise, for a defined period of time, at least? One way to compromise would be to agree to preserve the suggestion implicit in each existing red-link or new contribution of red-link or "black-link". By "black-link" I mean any list-item where a woman architect is being named, but without wikilink as no separate article is intended. An example could be a woman architect who is a principal of an architectural firm, where the firm has a Wikipedia article or seems to be notable enough to meet separate-article notability. List-articles can include items that are notable at a lower level of notability than justifies a separate wikipedia article. If each suggested woman architect item is recorded and kept alive, that respects the contribution and likely good knowledge of interested editors. The items may be preserved either in the list-article directly or in a development list here on the Talk page or in a Talk sub-page. A Talk subpage, perhaps Talk:List of female architects/Development list, currently a red-link, is NOT in mainspace and is allowed by all Wikipedia policies and guidelines.
Please consider this proposal, intended for a period of time, at least:
Please indicate SS = strong support, S = support, WS = weak support, WO = weak oppose, O = Oppose, SO = Strong Oppose for Part 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 with only very brief indication why (and give any expanded explanation in Discussion instead):
Please suggest woman architects for inclusion into the list-article here. And in spirit of proposal in section above, please transfer items to here, if you feel it's necessary to remove them from the list-article. Please insert any discussion and add supporting information just below each item. Some/many can be included in the list-article after discussion/development. -- do ncr am 17:57, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm wondering whether the List of American women architects is asking to be split off and go its own way. It has been given a different format and its own intro. It's certainly long enough to warrant a split! Sionk ( talk) 20:40, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Should we put the Puerto Rican architects under U.S. because Puerto Rico is part of the U.S. ArchitectK ( talk) 17:34, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This is an excellent initiative and will certainly help to encourage coverage of female architects. Two problems for the time being: I note that the list is built essentially on articles in Category:Women architects. Unfortunately this has not been used systematically. In the case of Denmark, for example, there are several articles which needed to be added (see the revised list). The other problem is that the list does not include red links, i.e. the names of female architects who deserve English WP articles, including some of those included in the other language Wikipedias but not yet in English. Again to take Denmark as an example, I would emphasise the need to include Eva Koppel (1916-2006), Karen Clemmensen ((1917-2001), Ragna Grubb (1903-1961) and Hanne Kjærholm (1930-2009) for a start. I know that some lists are restricted to existing articles but in this case I think it would be useful to include red links too, adding these names to the list for Denmark. Any views on this? Should they be included in chronological order with the blue links or should there be a separate section for the red links? (See also discussions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Architecture.) - Ipigott ( talk) 10:13, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The list now contains a substantial number of red links. Would it be a good idea, as Elekhh suggests on the WP Architecture talk page, to create a development page for these at, for example Wikipedia:WikiProject Architecture/List of female architects? Are there any that could be quickly transformed into stubs? - Ipigott ( talk) 08:32, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
A large number of uncited redlinks have appeared for Germany in particular. I see Ipigott has weeded out some of them, which is good. Obviously Wikipedia shouldn't cite itself and many German WP articles are unsourced. Personally I'd be inclined to give the redlinks a period of 'grace' to see whether (sourced) articles are written in English. But in-depth sources for some of them are hard to find! Sionk ( talk) 20:14, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
This argument has been raging on the
Wikiproject Architecture Talk page. I originally listed the architects by nationality because this seems to be a more meaningful way of presenting the information - for example it is possible to see the geographical spread, 'firsts' for each geographical area. There are a small number of prominent architects that have been born, educated and lived for a time in one country, but known better for their work in another country. Some of these, for example Zaha Hadid and Denise Scott Brown, I've listed twice. But there are very few of them.
To list chronologically I think would be a mistake. Almost no women architects were active before the 20th century. Would two long lists by century (20th/21st) be meaningful or navigable? Listing by century is okay for lists that cover a considerable historical period, but I believe we need to 'think out of the box' here. Alternative suggestions more than welcome!
Sionk (
talk)
17:19, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Another option would be to use a table with multiple, sortable fields. By clicking on the field you want it to sort by, you can change the order of items in the list. Click on "Name", and it'll sort alphabetically by last name (I've inserted hidden sort keys to make this work); click on "Dates" and it will sort chronologically by birth date, etc. In this example I've put continents in front of countries so that the present order we have is preserved. Note that the first click sorts it by ascending order, the second by descending order.
Name | Continent / Nationality | Dates | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
Sarah Calburn | Africa / South Africa | 1964- | |
Lin Huiyin | Asia / China | 1904-1955 | First known Chinese female architect |
Sheila Sri Prakash | Asia / India | 1955- | First woman in India to have started her own architectural firm. |
Katrin Koov | Europe / Estonia | 1973- | Large public projects since 2000 |
Dörte Gatermann | Europe / Germany | 1956- | Triangle Tower in Cologne |
Marion Mahony Griffin | North America / United States | 1871-1961 | One of the first licensed female architects in the world. |
This is just a small example, but you get the idea. Everyone gets their way. Litho derm 23:35, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Name | Continent | Nationality | Dates | Notes |
---|---|---|---|---|
Sarah Calburn | Africa | South Africa | 1964- | |
Lin Huiyin | Asia | China | 1904-1955 | First known Chinese female architect |
Sheila Sri Prakash | Asia | India | 1955- | First woman in India to have started her own architectural firm. |
Katrin Koov | Europe | Estonia | 1973- | Large public projects since 2000 |
Dörte Gatermann | Europe | Germany | 1956- | Triangle Tower in Cologne |
Marion Mahony Griffin | North America | United States | 1871-1961 | One of the first licensed female architects in the world. |
This is another example with continents and nations split into two different fields... Litho derm 05:01, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
While most of the rest of the world has now been covered pretty well, there are still over 40 names under the United States which need to be upgraded from red links. All of them have at least a basic reference which should facilitate writing stubs for a start. Perhaps the job can be completed by the end of March, Women's History month? - Ipigott ( talk) 11:48, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
An interesting infographic about Women in Architecture (in the US) http://www.archdaily.com/216844/infographic-women-in-architecture/ might be of interest for those working on the article. Maybe a short intro tackling history/chronology might benefit this article. The idea of a sortable table seems a good one, now that the article seems stabilised. -- ELEKHH T 07:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
An editor has highlighted (at WikiProject Architecture) these articles which discuss women architects, Wikipedia and this list article:
http://places.designobserver.com/feature/unforgetting-women-architects-from-pritzker-to-wikipedia/37912/ mentions this list directly, pointing out how many notable women architects are still missing from it;
http://www.architectmagazine.com/architects/unforgetting-women-architects.aspx (June 2013) invites its readers to nominate women architects to write-up on Wikipedia.
All good points and excellent initiatives! Sionk ( talk) 18:56, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
The term female has (to me at least) a negative connotation. In categories at Wikipedia it is usually applied to the so-called less desirable occupations (example Category: Female prostitutes). This has been a recurring topic for discussion in the area dedicated to nomination of categories for deletion, and to be fair there are many who disagree with my point (as well as those who support it). Ottawahitech ( talk) 15:30, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
One or more editors have removed redlink items from the list. I and perhaps others would prefer to keep them. But management of a list-article could be done either way. To me and perhaps others, removal seems unnecessary: per Wikipedia guideline wp:redlinks, redlinks serve a useful purpose and help wikipedia grow. Especially with some focus on developing this list and coverage of women architects in Wikipedia, it seems unfortunate, as well-meaning new and experienced editors will find their good-faith additions removed, undermining momentum and perhaps causing mis-perception that expanded coverage is not welcome. Many list-articles do include redlinks. See wp:LISTN and wp:LSC about types of list-articles. On the other hand, some other list-articles have been managed with a rule like some want here, that only items having a wikipedia article already can be included (i.e. no redlinks). And that has proven useful in practice sometimes, in limiting non-encyclopedic mainspace material and appropriately conveying that such will not be accepted, perhaps saving time of all parties. The definition of list-item inclusion rule for any one list-article can be set by consensus of editors, and can be changed by new consensus. I myself have created a number of women architect articles but only recently began contributing directly to this list-article. I'd like to respect editors who have been managing this list-article and not fight unpleasantly about what a new inclusion rule consensus should be.
Could we simply compromise, for a defined period of time, at least? One way to compromise would be to agree to preserve the suggestion implicit in each existing red-link or new contribution of red-link or "black-link". By "black-link" I mean any list-item where a woman architect is being named, but without wikilink as no separate article is intended. An example could be a woman architect who is a principal of an architectural firm, where the firm has a Wikipedia article or seems to be notable enough to meet separate-article notability. List-articles can include items that are notable at a lower level of notability than justifies a separate wikipedia article. If each suggested woman architect item is recorded and kept alive, that respects the contribution and likely good knowledge of interested editors. The items may be preserved either in the list-article directly or in a development list here on the Talk page or in a Talk sub-page. A Talk subpage, perhaps Talk:List of female architects/Development list, currently a red-link, is NOT in mainspace and is allowed by all Wikipedia policies and guidelines.
Please consider this proposal, intended for a period of time, at least:
Please indicate SS = strong support, S = support, WS = weak support, WO = weak oppose, O = Oppose, SO = Strong Oppose for Part 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 with only very brief indication why (and give any expanded explanation in Discussion instead):
Please suggest woman architects for inclusion into the list-article here. And in spirit of proposal in section above, please transfer items to here, if you feel it's necessary to remove them from the list-article. Please insert any discussion and add supporting information just below each item. Some/many can be included in the list-article after discussion/development. -- do ncr am 17:57, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm wondering whether the List of American women architects is asking to be split off and go its own way. It has been given a different format and its own intro. It's certainly long enough to warrant a split! Sionk ( talk) 20:40, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Should we put the Puerto Rican architects under U.S. because Puerto Rico is part of the U.S. ArchitectK ( talk) 17:34, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on List of women architects. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:49, 24 May 2017 (UTC)