List of top-division football clubs in UEFA countries is a former featured list. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page and why it was removed. If it has improved again to featured list standard, you may renominate the article to become a featured list. | ||||||||||||||||
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I'm adding flag icons to all country titles, I believe it makes the list better looking. Does anyone think otherwise? - Aabha (talk) 12:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
There is a comment on Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of football clubs in Europe about the title of the page being misleading, since the list only lists clubs from the highest level. Though the introduction makes it clear, I think there is a case here. The name should be explicit. I'd earlier brought up the same point at Talk:List of football (soccer) clubs - Aabha (talk) 13:00, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
So should we move it to List of top-division clubs in UEFA countries? - Aabha (talk) 15:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
This is just an aside, but if we rename it, we can use Image:UEFA.png on the article :) - Aabha (talk) 17:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, since Isle of Man is in the list, at least Channel Islands and Gibraltar should be included for completeness. Northern Cyprus, possibly. What about Vatican and Monaco?
While I don't feel this is the Truly Encyclopedic Way, the easy solution would be to exclude Isle of Man from the article. This would allow us to include UEFA in the title. Something like List of top-division clubs in UEFA countries. Opinions? Conscious 15:06, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
There is a suggestion to make use of "FC"/"NK"/"SK" consistent. What do people think is a good way to do with this? The first thing that comes to mind is to eliminate "FC" and all its translations/modifications from the list (like in English section, for example). We should probably try to do this, but not forget about possible exceptions, where "FC" has stuck closely to the club name (the German section, for example, lists Duisburg, Kaiserslautern and Nurnberg along with Hamburger SV, FC Koln and VfB Stuttgart; should they go?). Conscious 20:14, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
All right, let's include full club names where possible. Conscious 13:53, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
These clubs are listed without any abbreviations, and may need them added. (Sorry, but any diacritics have been lost in the process.) Feel free to remove or strike out any clubs that are checked. Conscious 06:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Is there anything else that we can/should include in the list? Like the date of foundation? Or a link to the official club website?..but many clubs don't have one. Any ideas? - Aabha (talk) 12:53, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't quite get the last revert... Celtic are
2004/2005 and
2005/2006 champions.
Conscious 13:01, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
What about starting updates for countries where the season has already finished? People are already changing champions and adding promoted teams. Conscious 09:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I added a comment in the Wales section to the effect that Wales's most important clubs actually compete in the English league. The same is true, apparently, for San Marino, where San Marino Calcio is a professional club competing in the third or fourth rung of the Italian league system, while the teams in the San Marino league seem to be small amateur clubs. Should this be mentioned? Was I right to mention this wrt Wales?
This also brings up the fact that not all top divisions are equal. The clubs from the second highest division in countries like England, France, Germany, Italy, and Spain are at a comparable level to most of the leagues listed here, for instance, if not considerably better. Note that Merkuur Tartu, playing in the highest Estonian division, has a ground with a capacity of 2000. Oxford United, in Conference National, the fifth highest English division, has a grounds with a capacity of 12,500. Perhaps we should be clear and specific about this. john k 01:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Two possible reasons:
Seeing as everyone seems to dislike my basic idea, I thought I'd try to hash it out and explain myself better here before doing anything. And I clearly haven't explained myself very well. Obviously, having money and a large grounds doesn't make you a good team. But it does give some intimation of the size of your fan base and the importance of the team. My problem is not so much that teams in lower leagues in one country might be better than teams in higher leagues in another. It's that teams in lower leagues in one country might be more important than teams in lower leagues of another. The Welsh case makes this especially clear - the League of Wales (and, apparently, the Irish Premier League, as well) is clearly considered by the BBC, at least, to be less important than Football League Two - they have individual team profiles for all teams in the Football League and the Scottish Football League, but they don't have any for even the premier leagues of Wales and Northern Ireland. It would seem that it is generally agreed that the three most important clubs in Wales are the clubs in the (English) Football League - Cardiff City, Swansea City, and Wrexham. Which is not to say that Wrexham is a better side than Rhyl or TNS - I have no idea if this is the case, or how we would determine this, since they would rarely play each other. But in this case, at least, we seem to be able to fairly conclusively say "the fourth highest English division is more prestigious and important than the highest Welsh division."
So what I think we need to do is simply have a brief statement to the effect that for the smaller European countries, the top division often includes very small clubs with little money or fan base, while in larger countries, well known clubs with long and storied histories can often be found in lower divisions. This would make the Welsh situation more comprehensible when we come to it - we could then simply note that while the League of Wales is the top division in Welsh football, that several Welsh teams play in English leagues, including the three most prominent, Cardiff City, Swansea City, and Wrexham, which play in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th highest English divisions, respectively.
Beyond this, I'm going to throw out an idea which may or may not have any support. I wonder if it might be a good idea to include as an addendum to this list teams that were at one time in their country's top division (perhaps limiting it to the last ten or twenty years). This would seem not to be outside the purview of the page as described by the title, and would also mean that important clubs that have fallen on hard times will be easily found in a single central location. As an example, there are 20 teams in England that have been in the Premiership at some point since it was formed in 1992, but are no longer in it. john k 17:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
None of the teams for Liechtenstein seem to fit the definition of this page. If we aren't going to list Swansea City or Wrexham in the Wales section, how can we list any of these teams, whose situation is exactly the same, except that Liechtenstein, unlike Wales, has no league of its own? It seems to me we should, at the very least, remove the table and change the thing to be a text paragraph, stating that Liechtenstein has no domestic league, but that these teams play in the Swiss League. john k 16:41, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to everyone who helps update this page. For some countries an update for 2007-08 season is needed of will be needed soon:
Conscious 07:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
We wnne to put at least the 2nd division clube i.e sirea b championship spanish segunda
City is inaccurate, as many of the locations are towns. Should we change it to "town or city" or "location" perhaps? -- Jameboy ( talk) 00:50, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I just removed the mentioning of republic in macedonia as it was long and inconsistent with rest of list. Then I saw the edit history, and to my amazement the edit just before was the inclusion of "Republic of". But I still don't see the rationale for adding the "Republic of"? France is also a republic, Sweden is a Kingdom etc. etc. why single out Macedonia. I guess adding Republic of to Ireland is for your special relationship, but IMO just having Ireland would be fine. Sandman888 ( talk) Latest PR 20:53, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Two questions about the images:
These aren't severe criticisms, but just a couple of thoughts I had when looking over an excellent article! Pretty Green ( talk) 13:11, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
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I was reviewing Lithuanian A Lyga, and found that the link from this page is to the regular season results table. The final results Template:2018 A Lyga Regular Season table. However there is a championship round for the top 6 teams after that, but then table does not show the bottom 2 teams. How to resolve this?
Also, the 2019 season has started, should this just replace the 2018, or should show both seasons, since it would show the champion that will participate in 2019 UEFA european cups draws? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolfmartyn ( talk • contribs) 11:57, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Bold 2409:4089:BE0F:9F33:B02F:7E78:F254:EE67 ( talk) 17:35, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
List of top-division football clubs in UEFA countries is a former featured list. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page and why it was removed. If it has improved again to featured list standard, you may renominate the article to become a featured list. | ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured list |
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
I'm adding flag icons to all country titles, I believe it makes the list better looking. Does anyone think otherwise? - Aabha (talk) 12:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
There is a comment on Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of football clubs in Europe about the title of the page being misleading, since the list only lists clubs from the highest level. Though the introduction makes it clear, I think there is a case here. The name should be explicit. I'd earlier brought up the same point at Talk:List of football (soccer) clubs - Aabha (talk) 13:00, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
So should we move it to List of top-division clubs in UEFA countries? - Aabha (talk) 15:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
This is just an aside, but if we rename it, we can use Image:UEFA.png on the article :) - Aabha (talk) 17:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, since Isle of Man is in the list, at least Channel Islands and Gibraltar should be included for completeness. Northern Cyprus, possibly. What about Vatican and Monaco?
While I don't feel this is the Truly Encyclopedic Way, the easy solution would be to exclude Isle of Man from the article. This would allow us to include UEFA in the title. Something like List of top-division clubs in UEFA countries. Opinions? Conscious 15:06, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
There is a suggestion to make use of "FC"/"NK"/"SK" consistent. What do people think is a good way to do with this? The first thing that comes to mind is to eliminate "FC" and all its translations/modifications from the list (like in English section, for example). We should probably try to do this, but not forget about possible exceptions, where "FC" has stuck closely to the club name (the German section, for example, lists Duisburg, Kaiserslautern and Nurnberg along with Hamburger SV, FC Koln and VfB Stuttgart; should they go?). Conscious 20:14, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
All right, let's include full club names where possible. Conscious 13:53, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
These clubs are listed without any abbreviations, and may need them added. (Sorry, but any diacritics have been lost in the process.) Feel free to remove or strike out any clubs that are checked. Conscious 06:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Is there anything else that we can/should include in the list? Like the date of foundation? Or a link to the official club website?..but many clubs don't have one. Any ideas? - Aabha (talk) 12:53, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't quite get the last revert... Celtic are
2004/2005 and
2005/2006 champions.
Conscious 13:01, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
What about starting updates for countries where the season has already finished? People are already changing champions and adding promoted teams. Conscious 09:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I added a comment in the Wales section to the effect that Wales's most important clubs actually compete in the English league. The same is true, apparently, for San Marino, where San Marino Calcio is a professional club competing in the third or fourth rung of the Italian league system, while the teams in the San Marino league seem to be small amateur clubs. Should this be mentioned? Was I right to mention this wrt Wales?
This also brings up the fact that not all top divisions are equal. The clubs from the second highest division in countries like England, France, Germany, Italy, and Spain are at a comparable level to most of the leagues listed here, for instance, if not considerably better. Note that Merkuur Tartu, playing in the highest Estonian division, has a ground with a capacity of 2000. Oxford United, in Conference National, the fifth highest English division, has a grounds with a capacity of 12,500. Perhaps we should be clear and specific about this. john k 01:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Two possible reasons:
Seeing as everyone seems to dislike my basic idea, I thought I'd try to hash it out and explain myself better here before doing anything. And I clearly haven't explained myself very well. Obviously, having money and a large grounds doesn't make you a good team. But it does give some intimation of the size of your fan base and the importance of the team. My problem is not so much that teams in lower leagues in one country might be better than teams in higher leagues in another. It's that teams in lower leagues in one country might be more important than teams in lower leagues of another. The Welsh case makes this especially clear - the League of Wales (and, apparently, the Irish Premier League, as well) is clearly considered by the BBC, at least, to be less important than Football League Two - they have individual team profiles for all teams in the Football League and the Scottish Football League, but they don't have any for even the premier leagues of Wales and Northern Ireland. It would seem that it is generally agreed that the three most important clubs in Wales are the clubs in the (English) Football League - Cardiff City, Swansea City, and Wrexham. Which is not to say that Wrexham is a better side than Rhyl or TNS - I have no idea if this is the case, or how we would determine this, since they would rarely play each other. But in this case, at least, we seem to be able to fairly conclusively say "the fourth highest English division is more prestigious and important than the highest Welsh division."
So what I think we need to do is simply have a brief statement to the effect that for the smaller European countries, the top division often includes very small clubs with little money or fan base, while in larger countries, well known clubs with long and storied histories can often be found in lower divisions. This would make the Welsh situation more comprehensible when we come to it - we could then simply note that while the League of Wales is the top division in Welsh football, that several Welsh teams play in English leagues, including the three most prominent, Cardiff City, Swansea City, and Wrexham, which play in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th highest English divisions, respectively.
Beyond this, I'm going to throw out an idea which may or may not have any support. I wonder if it might be a good idea to include as an addendum to this list teams that were at one time in their country's top division (perhaps limiting it to the last ten or twenty years). This would seem not to be outside the purview of the page as described by the title, and would also mean that important clubs that have fallen on hard times will be easily found in a single central location. As an example, there are 20 teams in England that have been in the Premiership at some point since it was formed in 1992, but are no longer in it. john k 17:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
None of the teams for Liechtenstein seem to fit the definition of this page. If we aren't going to list Swansea City or Wrexham in the Wales section, how can we list any of these teams, whose situation is exactly the same, except that Liechtenstein, unlike Wales, has no league of its own? It seems to me we should, at the very least, remove the table and change the thing to be a text paragraph, stating that Liechtenstein has no domestic league, but that these teams play in the Swiss League. john k 16:41, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to everyone who helps update this page. For some countries an update for 2007-08 season is needed of will be needed soon:
Conscious 07:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
We wnne to put at least the 2nd division clube i.e sirea b championship spanish segunda
City is inaccurate, as many of the locations are towns. Should we change it to "town or city" or "location" perhaps? -- Jameboy ( talk) 00:50, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I just removed the mentioning of republic in macedonia as it was long and inconsistent with rest of list. Then I saw the edit history, and to my amazement the edit just before was the inclusion of "Republic of". But I still don't see the rationale for adding the "Republic of"? France is also a republic, Sweden is a Kingdom etc. etc. why single out Macedonia. I guess adding Republic of to Ireland is for your special relationship, but IMO just having Ireland would be fine. Sandman888 ( talk) Latest PR 20:53, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Two questions about the images:
These aren't severe criticisms, but just a couple of thoughts I had when looking over an excellent article! Pretty Green ( talk) 13:11, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
An image used in this article,
File:Kadra1927.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Media without a source as of 29 June 2011
| |
A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (
commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 15:53, 29 June 2011 (UTC) |
An image used in this article,
File:Partizan-Stadion.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
| |
Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Wikipedia, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (
commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 01:20, 13 July 2011 (UTC) |
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on List of top-division football clubs in UEFA countries. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:10, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
I was reviewing Lithuanian A Lyga, and found that the link from this page is to the regular season results table. The final results Template:2018 A Lyga Regular Season table. However there is a championship round for the top 6 teams after that, but then table does not show the bottom 2 teams. How to resolve this?
Also, the 2019 season has started, should this just replace the 2018, or should show both seasons, since it would show the champion that will participate in 2019 UEFA european cups draws? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolfmartyn ( talk • contribs) 11:57, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Bold 2409:4089:BE0F:9F33:B02F:7E78:F254:EE67 ( talk) 17:35, 13 May 2024 (UTC)