![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 12 March 2022. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This page was
proposed for deletion by
Superchilum (
talk ·
contribs) on 28 February 2018 with the comment: A collection of quotes belongs to Wikiquote, not to Wikipedia. In fact, on Wikiquote there is already a more complete list, namely q:Last words, so there is no need to have this page here, it is a dupicate and out of project. It was contested by Gaioa ( talk · contribs) on 28 February 2018 with the comment: REMOVING PROD: i know about that Wikiquote article, did you even read the article or the talk page?? If this article goes, it's through a proper and full AfD |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
|
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Alright, I'm going to publish this into mainspace in a short while, and I can already feel the amount of rage from serious business activists and other WikiSnobs calling for deletion. So let me state my case for keep right away:
So please think twice before shouting at me to get back(?) onto WikiQuote. Thank you. Gaioa ( t, c, l) 11:45, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
I suggest that the Captain Smith words are actually suited here, and that while Binksternet does point out Harold Bride's testimony, we must consider the timing of Edward Brown's account; while Harold Bride's testimony is reliable, we have to remember that his last talk with Captain Smith occurred a few minutes before the ship sank, and Smith was seen by other people after that, carrying out a final tour of the deck, telling crew members to save themselves. Brown's testimony is corroborated by several others who testified to seeing Smith telling them to save themselves, and that it was just before the ship took its final plunge. His testimony is also significant because he says that after Smith walked onto the bridge, the ship took its final plunge, just a "few seconds" later, and the bridge and boat deck was quickly covered with water. This part matches all the survivor accounts (see enquiry testimonies! http://www.titanicinquiry.org/) that are unanimous in saying that the fore end of the boat deck, where the bridge was, was submerged in a very quick and violent manner, like a "tidal wave" had struck it: this makes Brown's sighting of the Captain, almost certainly, the last reliable sighting of Smith, and his last known words, rather then Bride's, especially since Bride's talk with him occurred a few minutes before the plunge (Bride confirmed that he and Phillips did not the leave the wireless room for at least ten more minutes). Brown's sighting, like I said, occurred just immediately before the plunge.
To deal with this issue, I put a footnote detailing some of the more popular myths of Smith's last words, like his supposed "Be British" statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.99.114 ( talk) 07:35, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
The article mentions he's portrayed by David Prowse and voiced by James Earl Jones, but in the scene in question, he was portrayed and voiced by Sebastian Shaw. That's going to be confusing to address in the article though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.186.125 ( talk) 23:10, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Just now, @ Gaioa: reverted my latest edits to the article. While some of the people whose last words I added are arguably less notable (I'm thinking of Inocêncio Francisco da Silva and, to a lesser extent, Miguel Bombarda), it's silly to say any of the others aren't notable (namely, a head of state, a queen consort, a Roman Catholic saint, and one of the greatest figures in Portuguese literature). The inclusion criteria were arbitrarily decided and not at all discussed, if this the above contents of this talk page are any indication (though I do agree that it is reasonable to require the subjects have a stand-alone Wikipedia article, I think it's hardly necessary for them to have a Wikiquote entry to establish notability, for the reasons pointed out already by Epiphyllumlover).
Besides, a quick search reveals there are a couple of other people listed in the article with no Wikiquote entry (English Wikiquote, at least): Franz Ferdinand, Edward Smith, Jack Daniel, Emerson H. Liscum — are we to get rid of those interesting quotes, too? -- RickMorais ( talk) 21:45, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
As the original author of this article, I formulated some (kinda out-of-thin-air) inclusion criteria reading that "subjects should have both a standalone WP article and a standalone WQ article". Later, someone objected to that, and I was too busy with non-WP matters to discuss so I let it be. Now it feels like the article is becoming a dump for everyone's favorite historical people and literary works, so therefore I ask for consensus on this matter. We need one criterium for real people and one for fictional works. Gaioa ( T C L) 19:27, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
We should use Jesus' last words in the earliest source, rather than later ones. Temerarius ( talk) 19:41, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
I think I read somewhere that John Lennon's last words were "Of course I do. I am John Lennon." Is there any truth to this? JIP | Talk 10:13, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
According to contemporary news reports in 1980, a policeman asked "Are you John Lennon?" and he replied "Yeah." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.37.205 ( talk) 22:30, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
Suetonius gave the first half of his last words in Latin and the second half in Greek. Here it's all Latin. Temerarius ( talk) 20:52, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
Note: The prior discussion is in the previous section.
I have blue-linked the phrase " I can't breathe" in the last words of Eric Garner and George Floyd. This phrase is a third example of famous last words with their own article, besides Last words of Julius Caesar and Sayings of Jesus on the cross. The phrase originated with Eric Garner's last words, but George Floyd's use of it is also mentioned in the lede section of the "I can't breathe" article. I have also added the "I can't breathe" article to Category:Last words. Gildir ( talk) 11:47, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Last words used to redirect to this article, but I just now made it into a full article, about the actual medical phenomena of last words. It's a short article, but could be expanded.
So now the question is where should a search on just the term "last words" now take the reader?
I don't have a strong opinion. There's something to be said for a search on "last words" to take the searcher to Last words, though, after all. And it is an actual scientific phenomena. On the other hand, the "famous last words" given in this article is surely the target of many searchers. And it is an actual historical phenomena. Herostratus ( talk) 14:44, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
So what I'm suggesting for this article's lede is something along these lines, rather than medical stuff. (I didn't put the picture in, but it should stay.)
Last words or final words are a person's final articulated words, stated prior to death or as death approaches. Often they are recorded because of the decedent's fame, but sometimes because of interest in the statement itself. (People dying of illness are frequently inarticulate at the end, [1] and in such cases their actual last utterances may not be recorded or considered very important.) Last words may be recorded accurately, or, for a variety of reasons, may not. Reasons can including simple error or deliberate intent. Even if reported wrongly, putative last words can constitute an important part of the perceived historical records (according to Robin Winks "[H]istory is what people believe to be true") [2] or demonstration of cultural attitudes toward death at the time. [1]
Charles Darwin, for example, was reported to have disavowed his theory of evolution in favor of traditional religious faith at his death. This widely disseminated report served the interests of those who opposed Darwin's theory on religious grounds. However, the putative witness had not been at Darwin deathbed or seen him at any time near the end of his life. [3]
Both Eastern and Western cultural traditions ascribe special significance to words uttered at or near death, [4] but the form and content of reported last words may depend on cultural context. There is a tradition in Hindu and Buddhist cultures of an expectation of a meaningful farewell statement; Zen monks by long custom are expected to compose a poem on the spot and recite it with their last breath. In Western culture particular attention has been paid to last words which deomonstrate deathbed salvation – the repentance of sins and affirmation of faith. [3]
Famously reported last words which have occasioned particular attention and dispute include the sayings of Jesus on the cross, [5] [6] and the last words of Julius Caesar. [7]
The ironic stuff is fine, but it doesn't belong in the lede; I'd suggest a separate short section right above the executed people, maybe. That leaves a little room for the lede to be expanded, and there's material out there by historians and literary people to do it.
Regarding the issue of this article being extremely long, the "Last words of people sentenced to death" section was formerly a separate article that was transcluded in "List of last words". Now that it has become so long, it should probably be split off entirely. Also, strictly speaking, the sayings of Jesus on the cross should be included in that section rather than the main list. This would be somewhat awkward if the section became a separate article, but less so if the last words of Jesus are mentioned in this article, as would be the case with the proposed new lede. Gildir ( talk) 16:21, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Just saw this quote mentioned in a Kwite video titled This sh*t did not Age Well, and I wanted to see if this was a real quote because of how amazing it sounded.
When I found the link it took me to some type of website called Guillaume & Jennifer Dargaud's website that looks like its straight from the 1990s. There is a hyperlink on Caligula's name that goes to an amazon page for a book called Caligula: The Corruption of Power, which could have the source but I am unsure.
I am going to add a better source tag to this citation, and suggest someone find the primary source for this quote because I need to know if Caligula saying "I am still alive!" before dying is true or not. Randitor ( talk) 02:50, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
The opening ends with the line, "In Western culture particular attention has been paid to last words which demonstrate deathbed salvation – the repentance of sins and affirmation of faith." While I don't deny that that is a large portion of quoted last words in Western culture, I think last words of defiance (with or without repentance) are far more remembered by the average Westerner today. For example, "More Weight," by a Salem Witch Trial victim that refused to plea guilty/not guilty and was being pressed, literally, into choosing. Likewise, the popularity of famous last stands (The Alamo, Little Bighorn, Thermopylae, etc) definitely speaks to the Western, or perhaps American, infatuation with defiance. Such quotes even serve as a foil to the Eastern tradition of making peace and farewells. However, I don't have any immediate sources and understand that this is all anecdotal. 68.60.202.174 ( talk) 18:35, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
How come the "Ironic last words" section is separate from the chronological list? It seems like "ironic" is an arbitrary designation (and there isn't any description in the section to suggest what it is being defined as), and it doesn't make much sense to omit these from the overall list on basis of being ironic. ForeverStamp ( talk) 04:20, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
didn't the famous, "et tu brute?" come from Shakespeare? THEREALhistoryandgames ( talk) 15:31, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 12 March 2022. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This page was
proposed for deletion by
Superchilum (
talk ·
contribs) on 28 February 2018 with the comment: A collection of quotes belongs to Wikiquote, not to Wikipedia. In fact, on Wikiquote there is already a more complete list, namely q:Last words, so there is no need to have this page here, it is a dupicate and out of project. It was contested by Gaioa ( talk · contribs) on 28 February 2018 with the comment: REMOVING PROD: i know about that Wikiquote article, did you even read the article or the talk page?? If this article goes, it's through a proper and full AfD |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
|
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Alright, I'm going to publish this into mainspace in a short while, and I can already feel the amount of rage from serious business activists and other WikiSnobs calling for deletion. So let me state my case for keep right away:
So please think twice before shouting at me to get back(?) onto WikiQuote. Thank you. Gaioa ( t, c, l) 11:45, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
I suggest that the Captain Smith words are actually suited here, and that while Binksternet does point out Harold Bride's testimony, we must consider the timing of Edward Brown's account; while Harold Bride's testimony is reliable, we have to remember that his last talk with Captain Smith occurred a few minutes before the ship sank, and Smith was seen by other people after that, carrying out a final tour of the deck, telling crew members to save themselves. Brown's testimony is corroborated by several others who testified to seeing Smith telling them to save themselves, and that it was just before the ship took its final plunge. His testimony is also significant because he says that after Smith walked onto the bridge, the ship took its final plunge, just a "few seconds" later, and the bridge and boat deck was quickly covered with water. This part matches all the survivor accounts (see enquiry testimonies! http://www.titanicinquiry.org/) that are unanimous in saying that the fore end of the boat deck, where the bridge was, was submerged in a very quick and violent manner, like a "tidal wave" had struck it: this makes Brown's sighting of the Captain, almost certainly, the last reliable sighting of Smith, and his last known words, rather then Bride's, especially since Bride's talk with him occurred a few minutes before the plunge (Bride confirmed that he and Phillips did not the leave the wireless room for at least ten more minutes). Brown's sighting, like I said, occurred just immediately before the plunge.
To deal with this issue, I put a footnote detailing some of the more popular myths of Smith's last words, like his supposed "Be British" statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.99.114 ( talk) 07:35, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
The article mentions he's portrayed by David Prowse and voiced by James Earl Jones, but in the scene in question, he was portrayed and voiced by Sebastian Shaw. That's going to be confusing to address in the article though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.186.125 ( talk) 23:10, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Just now, @ Gaioa: reverted my latest edits to the article. While some of the people whose last words I added are arguably less notable (I'm thinking of Inocêncio Francisco da Silva and, to a lesser extent, Miguel Bombarda), it's silly to say any of the others aren't notable (namely, a head of state, a queen consort, a Roman Catholic saint, and one of the greatest figures in Portuguese literature). The inclusion criteria were arbitrarily decided and not at all discussed, if this the above contents of this talk page are any indication (though I do agree that it is reasonable to require the subjects have a stand-alone Wikipedia article, I think it's hardly necessary for them to have a Wikiquote entry to establish notability, for the reasons pointed out already by Epiphyllumlover).
Besides, a quick search reveals there are a couple of other people listed in the article with no Wikiquote entry (English Wikiquote, at least): Franz Ferdinand, Edward Smith, Jack Daniel, Emerson H. Liscum — are we to get rid of those interesting quotes, too? -- RickMorais ( talk) 21:45, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
As the original author of this article, I formulated some (kinda out-of-thin-air) inclusion criteria reading that "subjects should have both a standalone WP article and a standalone WQ article". Later, someone objected to that, and I was too busy with non-WP matters to discuss so I let it be. Now it feels like the article is becoming a dump for everyone's favorite historical people and literary works, so therefore I ask for consensus on this matter. We need one criterium for real people and one for fictional works. Gaioa ( T C L) 19:27, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
We should use Jesus' last words in the earliest source, rather than later ones. Temerarius ( talk) 19:41, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
I think I read somewhere that John Lennon's last words were "Of course I do. I am John Lennon." Is there any truth to this? JIP | Talk 10:13, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
According to contemporary news reports in 1980, a policeman asked "Are you John Lennon?" and he replied "Yeah." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.37.205 ( talk) 22:30, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
Suetonius gave the first half of his last words in Latin and the second half in Greek. Here it's all Latin. Temerarius ( talk) 20:52, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
Note: The prior discussion is in the previous section.
I have blue-linked the phrase " I can't breathe" in the last words of Eric Garner and George Floyd. This phrase is a third example of famous last words with their own article, besides Last words of Julius Caesar and Sayings of Jesus on the cross. The phrase originated with Eric Garner's last words, but George Floyd's use of it is also mentioned in the lede section of the "I can't breathe" article. I have also added the "I can't breathe" article to Category:Last words. Gildir ( talk) 11:47, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Last words used to redirect to this article, but I just now made it into a full article, about the actual medical phenomena of last words. It's a short article, but could be expanded.
So now the question is where should a search on just the term "last words" now take the reader?
I don't have a strong opinion. There's something to be said for a search on "last words" to take the searcher to Last words, though, after all. And it is an actual scientific phenomena. On the other hand, the "famous last words" given in this article is surely the target of many searchers. And it is an actual historical phenomena. Herostratus ( talk) 14:44, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
So what I'm suggesting for this article's lede is something along these lines, rather than medical stuff. (I didn't put the picture in, but it should stay.)
Last words or final words are a person's final articulated words, stated prior to death or as death approaches. Often they are recorded because of the decedent's fame, but sometimes because of interest in the statement itself. (People dying of illness are frequently inarticulate at the end, [1] and in such cases their actual last utterances may not be recorded or considered very important.) Last words may be recorded accurately, or, for a variety of reasons, may not. Reasons can including simple error or deliberate intent. Even if reported wrongly, putative last words can constitute an important part of the perceived historical records (according to Robin Winks "[H]istory is what people believe to be true") [2] or demonstration of cultural attitudes toward death at the time. [1]
Charles Darwin, for example, was reported to have disavowed his theory of evolution in favor of traditional religious faith at his death. This widely disseminated report served the interests of those who opposed Darwin's theory on religious grounds. However, the putative witness had not been at Darwin deathbed or seen him at any time near the end of his life. [3]
Both Eastern and Western cultural traditions ascribe special significance to words uttered at or near death, [4] but the form and content of reported last words may depend on cultural context. There is a tradition in Hindu and Buddhist cultures of an expectation of a meaningful farewell statement; Zen monks by long custom are expected to compose a poem on the spot and recite it with their last breath. In Western culture particular attention has been paid to last words which deomonstrate deathbed salvation – the repentance of sins and affirmation of faith. [3]
Famously reported last words which have occasioned particular attention and dispute include the sayings of Jesus on the cross, [5] [6] and the last words of Julius Caesar. [7]
The ironic stuff is fine, but it doesn't belong in the lede; I'd suggest a separate short section right above the executed people, maybe. That leaves a little room for the lede to be expanded, and there's material out there by historians and literary people to do it.
Regarding the issue of this article being extremely long, the "Last words of people sentenced to death" section was formerly a separate article that was transcluded in "List of last words". Now that it has become so long, it should probably be split off entirely. Also, strictly speaking, the sayings of Jesus on the cross should be included in that section rather than the main list. This would be somewhat awkward if the section became a separate article, but less so if the last words of Jesus are mentioned in this article, as would be the case with the proposed new lede. Gildir ( talk) 16:21, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Just saw this quote mentioned in a Kwite video titled This sh*t did not Age Well, and I wanted to see if this was a real quote because of how amazing it sounded.
When I found the link it took me to some type of website called Guillaume & Jennifer Dargaud's website that looks like its straight from the 1990s. There is a hyperlink on Caligula's name that goes to an amazon page for a book called Caligula: The Corruption of Power, which could have the source but I am unsure.
I am going to add a better source tag to this citation, and suggest someone find the primary source for this quote because I need to know if Caligula saying "I am still alive!" before dying is true or not. Randitor ( talk) 02:50, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
The opening ends with the line, "In Western culture particular attention has been paid to last words which demonstrate deathbed salvation – the repentance of sins and affirmation of faith." While I don't deny that that is a large portion of quoted last words in Western culture, I think last words of defiance (with or without repentance) are far more remembered by the average Westerner today. For example, "More Weight," by a Salem Witch Trial victim that refused to plea guilty/not guilty and was being pressed, literally, into choosing. Likewise, the popularity of famous last stands (The Alamo, Little Bighorn, Thermopylae, etc) definitely speaks to the Western, or perhaps American, infatuation with defiance. Such quotes even serve as a foil to the Eastern tradition of making peace and farewells. However, I don't have any immediate sources and understand that this is all anecdotal. 68.60.202.174 ( talk) 18:35, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
How come the "Ironic last words" section is separate from the chronological list? It seems like "ironic" is an arbitrary designation (and there isn't any description in the section to suggest what it is being defined as), and it doesn't make much sense to omit these from the overall list on basis of being ironic. ForeverStamp ( talk) 04:20, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
didn't the famous, "et tu brute?" come from Shakespeare? THEREALhistoryandgames ( talk) 15:31, 20 July 2023 (UTC)