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"Horumon" is not a loan word (this article mistakes it as coming from the word hormone). It is the Kansai dialect; horu = to throw away or discard, and mon (mono) = things. Literally, the things one throws away. It means the parts of the animal that originally no one wanted to eat (internal organs), hence they were discarded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.30.5 ( talk) 14:22, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
We already have wasei-eigo and gairaigo ... do we need this article too? Not to mention the fact that many would consider the article title offensive. CES 13:12, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
If memory serves, aren't "sarariman" (salaryman) and "bi-bi" (bye bye)? (Please forgive my undoubtedly incorrect Janglish spellings). -- John Fader ( talk | contribs) 23:53, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've heard that a number of famous/important sites in New York City have been "nipponized" by resident Japanese. Would those be relevant to this article, or is this only for terms originating from Japan? -- Feitclub 01:32, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
I would like to submit the term 'doctor-stop.' I Googled it and there are a couple of Japanese sites that feature it in the title (there's a TV series, a CD...) -- so I think it's legitimate. What it means is: when the doctor tells you to stop doing something. For instance, "I got a doctor-stop on drinking coffee."
Derived from English "costume-play," kosupure (sp?) means a costume fetish, or wearing costumes during sex.
What the hell is up with the collation of this list? It's wrong for japanese, and it's wrong for english. I added my entry where it seemed the current system wanted it to go, but really we should pick one option and fix the order of the whole list so it makes some sense. As this is en.wikip probably collating english style on the hepburn is the best option. -- zippedmartin 10:59, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
I would propose that gairaigo that are taken "as is" from English should be removed from this list. If you included such entries, the list could potentially have thousands of entries. We should limit it to the following:
Based on these criteria, I suggest that the following be deleted, since there's nothing particularly interesting about them.
Also, I propose that this list be reordered in proper Japanese dictionary order...which it's pretty close to right now, but it's a little bit ambiguous in some cases, such as ka vs ga.
CES,
I agree it was originally misleading--I should have done what you did in adding "but most come from English..."; nonetheless, English is mentioned in the first sentence as forming a major sub-component, the wasei-eigo. Thanks for helping out -- Dpr 03:16, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
What is the purpose of "cf table(French)?" I don't think it's significant that the English word came from the French word...after all that applies to something like a third of the English language...
Here are some words that could be added if they're not already there. I don't have a dictionary at hand to look up exact spellings or derivations. If you put any into the article, it might be worth deleting from this list, or striking out.
What is the reason for saying that plus alpha is a misreading of plus x? Fg2 08:50, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
-> Response, this was basically copied from the Japanese Wikipedia (I've seen it in other sources too). I guess that if you write in cursive / italics especially, the characters α and x can look pretty similar. Kcumming 06:44, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Take a look at the definition given here: [1]. Ignore the bit where they say it's equivalent to "preview" in English; what they're describing is clearly a film's commercial premiere. And if you Google "テレビロードショー" or something similar, you'll find several uses that have nothing to do with theatres. -- Lanius 15:15, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
There are thousands and thousands of gairaigo in Japanese. Most English words can and are sometimes borrowed in Japanese. Wikipedia is not a dictionary, but I think a listing of wasei-eigo/wasei-gairaigo is interesting enough to warrant an entry. What I propose is that this list is moved to the title "List of wasei-garaigo" (or possibly "wasei-eigo"), and remove all the gairaigo. Some of the entries now are just stupid, such as アイ・ラブ・ユー, sure, it's the way Japanese pronounce it but it is in no way a part of the Japanese language. Mackan 14:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I partially agree. See above (proposed removals). I think there's no point to having straight English loan words...there could be tens of thousands. Unless there's some real valid objection, I'm going to do some pruning some time soon. Kcumming 16:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I decided there should be a new list page for terms that are often mistaken for being gairaigo.
Take a look and let me know what you think. -- Kcumming 04:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
The entry for バター mentions margarine as well, but for the most part, margarine is マーガリン (link is to Japanese wikipedia). Is there any specific instance where バター is mislabelled on margerine as currently described in the バター line of the article? Neier 23:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I have seen that some gairaigo words are referring to Portuguese. However some are closer to Spanish than Portuguese, for example pan. Gairaigo:pan, Spanish:pan, English:bread
Don’t forget that Filipinas was a Spanish colony where Spanish was talk. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.97.233.91 ( talk) 10:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC).
To my recollection, the Portuguese were not the ONLY Iberians in Japan. It was both the Spanish and the Portuguese. The Franciscans and the Jesuits. In fact, the Japanese ships had made contacts with the Spanish in New Spain. Seems like someone just lumped everything into Portuguese for the sake of expedience, considering how it would be nearly impossible to make the disctinctions since both language are very similar. However, it is incorrect to lump Portuguese and Spanish together without giving any credit or mention of the Spanish. 68.123.239.146 ( talk) 10:37, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
This one is a common misunderstanding. Because it is often written "animé" people assume it must come from French (people assume the same about toire sometimes). Aside from the fact that my Japanese dictionary, which is listed as a reference at the bottom of the page, shows that it is an English loanword, there is the fact that it makes no sense to assume it comes from French. A quick check of a French dictionary ( http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/animation) shows that animation is pronounced such that the ma sounds like ma and not mé. Also, this word was probably borrowed in the mid 20th century, when increased American cultural influence meant that the majority of loan words came from English. -- Kcumming 15:31, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not disputing the insertion of "orai", I was actually on the verge of doing so myself, but is it ever heard outside the context of a car or truck reversing with the driver's friend watching at the back calling it out? -- DrHacky 07:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
to: DrHacky
My explanation is somewhat over statement or exaggeration. the Orai usage is recommended in the situation that every thing is OK or no problem if counter part person is wondering about problem or obstacle to go, and if you find it OK, "Orai" is usable as immediate response or go-ahead sign. if you response with Orai in 1 minute later, it sound funny or not fit as smooth conversation. OK is much more useful for most situation, and most Japanese understand. Vehicle navigation with Orai is origin usage and still good use. Orai is not replaceable OK in all the time.-- Namazu-tron 10:33, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Namazu-tron, thanks for your recent edits. It's good to have the perspective of a native speaker here. I made some changes to some of your edits. Much of it seemed to be etymological information, so I moved those instances to the origin column. Some other ones were redundant so I removed them. One of the others was difficult to understand. I'll post it here for clarification:
I'm not sure of the meaning of that. Could you elaborate?
Thanks again, I hope to see more from you. Kcumming 16:27, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Discussion for Gairaigo arigatō ( I write here than "discussion of Gairaigo", because discussion of Gairaigo is quite neet and no discussion at all), " arigatō": Comment for Gairaigo Misconceptions, the word arigatō. "arigato" is the variation of "Arigatai", and is separated to ari+gatai. Ari is to represents "in being" or "existing". gatai is be difficult or not easy thing. Originally it means "human being" is difficult in being in this world. There is a one Verse in Dhammapada. This is in context, "We, human being is to alive in this world is difficult or no easy, and although shall be die in some day, we are in being with life but each one's life exist in this world itself is difficult thing, rare happening or kind of miracle." Arigato is originally thanks (to God) on all of us, we are exist with life in this world now. The one of Buddhism's idea or philosophy. I am not sure that people use "arigato" know such origin. -- Namazu-tron 11:30, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Very recent(3-5 years may be) popular gairaigo among Japanese, "バッティング""battengu" not listed here yet, is said from English word=Butting, meaning, competing in business, in with different opinion, in love with other person, such as dual or triple or more offers, bidding and etc as in such conditions. Is to understand this gairaigo derived from English word "butting" or "butt" acceptable ? I can not clearly find this meaning on word "butt" in my dictionary.-- Namazu-tron 05:08, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
"バッティング""battengu is used for batting in baseball, and still used, sample and typical usage in Japan is Matsui, Matsui or Ichoro does good batting today, he is good batting player, some need more batting practice, and so on. By the way, though I'm now live in Tokyo area, my country is the same to Hideki, only 30 minutes drive. another "battengu" or butting become popular in any talks and publication on newspaper or weely magazine( mostly, not top grade publications) , but not used by NHK or eminent newspaper officially yet, I guess. But "battengu" is understandable word for most people. Example are: company A wants merge B, and also C wants too, in such competitive stage, "A and C are in butting, or doing battengu. supermarket A and C wants open and propose to community opening strategy, A and C are doing battengu or in battengu status/conditions. In early use of battengu is for such business terms. Then now used, even used to love competition, not many people though, but understandable in hearing. Even eminent commentator on TV does use word butting, "battengu" today. I believe battengu, derived batting and butting, different meaning and different English origin is eligible to list up on gairaigo here, and it might be a good guide for people to Japan from overseas or Gaijin here in Japan. Is anyone try to list up, then watch someone does comment, modify, or DELETE.-- Namazu-tron 11:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
PS: Analogy is male bull or moose head-butting to get female, mostly on business and even acceptable usage on love affair in Japan today.-- Namazu-tron 11:31, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
This is the talking Japanese originated words rather than gairaigo, but I would like to your help for definition. For these, transmit or transmission, Japanese has two words. "tensou 転送" literally refer to sending with roll out, apply to transmission between PC and peripheral equipment(s) without signal form change such as modulation, transmit anything in very proximity or short distance, or transfer mail, cargo, a thing with form or style as it is, or without change. Another word "densou 伝送" literally refer to send or relay with telling or talking/speaking, apply to transmit signal with modulation and this "densou" apply to communication technology area only. not use like to do "densou" the cargo. "tensou" the cargo is correct usage in Japanese. If engineer use "tensou" for telecommunication which send to far distance location, he is not expert in Japan, he should use "densou" instead. My question is, is there different word(s) to discriminate above two condition which Japanese does? -- Namazu-tron 01:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I can find no trace of such a word in Portuguese, and my wife, a native speaker, has never heard of it. So I put 'miira' here until someone can find what language, if any, it is from. |- |ミイラ |miira |mirra |a mummy |Portuguese - Rothorpe 20:45, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Ever checked Germanism article? This really looks like the same on a copy of this (e. g. ryukkusakku an all those derived from German are listed again, so we have almost everything twice). Should we maybe remove all J-germanisms from the other article and link to this one here? .andy 92.229.164.237 ( talk) 15:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
It would be nice to have statistics, such as 80% English, 4% French, etc... Some research might have been done, or... do we have enough words to make our own meaningful statistics ? Thanks! Nicolas1981 ( talk) 10:15, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
While this article has entertainment value, and it's fun to chime in with our own additions from time to time, I doubt the suitability of this list existing in Wikipedia. Both whether the content should be included in Wikipedia in the first place and then whether list format is appropriate. First of all, unlike in Wiktionary, which in theory we could move the entire collection over to, we are limiting ourselves to having a tiny row to put each entry in. There's also the issue of scalability and notability and meeting Wikipedia's requirements (e.g. WP:INDISCRIMINATE). Or, perhaps the info could be moved to a wiki site that's better specialized for katakana-go than Wiktionary. Or am I being unnecessarily doubtful here? — Tokek ( talk) 09:57, 2 August 2009 (UTC) (Oops, checked the "minor edit" checkbox by mistake. My bad. — Tokek ( talk) 09:59, 2 August 2009 (UTC))
Don't we need an article of Japanese words of German origin? I think it touches upon an important aspect of Germany-Japan relations: academic and technological cooperation. The Japanese article ja:ドイツ語から日本語への借用 lists the following:
Shinkansen Fan ( talk) 02:50, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
It's the word Japanese use for Jesus. I think it should be deleted or at least corrected. I noticed this word is said to be from Portuguese, but the name Jesus is spelled and pronounced exactly the same way in Church Latin, and given that the first Japanese Christians were converted by Catholic missionaries, this is the likely etymology. 68.106.222.230 ( talk) 08:40, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
I spotted at least 2 or 3 mistakes.
Gaze and Fanfare are not from German, but from French (even the spelling makes it obvious. There are obviously not originally German).
You can see here that French was the source of the speading of the terms (here in English but it's true in many European countries)
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=gauze&searchmode=none
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=fanfare&searchmode=none
Pinsetto also comes from French pincette not from Dutch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Waggg ( talk • contribs) 11:24, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Just by accident I spotted this one. Might belong into the list as well. There is no such thing as a "photo stand" in English; it would be called a picture frame there. However, there is also a more sophisticated term for it in Japanese language, which, however, is harder to write since it must be written in kanji: 写真立て :) -andy 77.191.195.135 ( talk) 13:44, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
Not to say that mama doesn't have uses specific to Japanese (eg female bar owner as referred by her staff and/or patrons) as well as being one of the ways to refer to one's mother, but to claim it is a loanword requires some more proof, because as a sequence of sounds it occurs across all languages during the early stages of language acquisition along with papa, tata and dada. All of them end up being used as kinship terms one way or another (for one, Japanese 'haha' (mother) probably derives from 'papa' in earlier stages of Japanese). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.7.24.125 ( talk) 06:44, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
The word アルコール entered Japan via Dutch and not Portuguese. In both languages it was borrowed from Arabic, but it is established that the modern Japanese pronunciation is based on the Dutch one. I suggest mentioning that the word origin is "Arabic via Dutch".
https://ja.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB#.E8.AA.9E.E6.BA.90 -- Barnblan ( talk) 07:35, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Nahuatl is certainly the source of the word "tomato". What seems almost equally certain to me is that Japanese imported the word by way of English. The criterion is "The language names do not indicate the origin of the word, but the languages from which Japan first learned the words" (see above). 137.205.100.161 ( talk) 12:16, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
In fact, some words (Latin, Sanskrit, Indo-European classics) are borrowed from/via chinese, english, german... Is ゼン "zen (禅 禪 Dhyāna)" needed to list? For example, 旦那 "danna" is a Sanskrit word " dāna" via chinese. But this article have only the word ゼン "zen".
I saw this article at 837356072 [2] for the first time. -- 3代目窓屋 ( talk) 09:27, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
It seems to me there is a basic problem with this list, namely that you can't tell which are gairaigo and which are wasei-eigo, so I think it would smart if we split them into two tables. Ideally that task would be better suited for someone whose Japanese is not as rusty as mine. — howcheng { chat} 16:46, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
Santropedro ( talk) 02:41, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
wtf, nerds. Clean this up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:602:9E00:E620:B039:87B8:F848:F91F ( talk) 23:52, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
I am having a hard time finding reliable sources for ウーパールーパー, meaning axolotl, being derived from English. While it is written in katakana, Wooper looper is not an English term, so this is not WP:SKYBLUE obvious. Browsing Google book results for "Wooper Looper" seem to suggest that the term is Japanese, or used in Japan or similar. Jstore has 0 hits for "Wooper looper", and Google Scholar only has a couple that are not helpful, suggesting this term has little-to-no academic usage, even in linguistics.
Wiktionary said this
in 2017: (1985) named so in a TV commercial, from English super- and looper (“inchworm”), to avoid アホロートル, which is homophone with アホロートル (“stupid old fart”).
but the details were trimmed a month later. No source is provided, and Wiktionary is not a reliable source for Wikipedia. The etymology seems plausible, but without a source it's indistinguishable from
folk etymology. (Also, why wouldn't it be "スーパールーパー"?)
@
DrHacky: has suggested that
the Jisho.org entry supports this. This is a very useful site, but it is a labor of love that compiles information from elsewhere. It's
about page says The data used in Jisho comes from a variety of open source projects.
This includes Wikipedia and other sites which host user-generated content (
WP:UGC). Entries are mainly populated from
JMDict. The
JMDict entry for this word doesn't mention etymology.
Per Wikipedia:Verifiability#Wikipedia and sources that mirror or use it, the potential risk here is "citogenesis", where an assumption or misconception remains because was added to Wikipedia in the past, not because independent, reliable sources have looked at it. it would be very nice to find sources for this to potentially prevent spreading misinformation. Sources would be useful both here, and potentially at jp:メキシコサンショウウオ. Grayfell ( talk) 19:30, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
@ Yohaya:, no argument with your edit comment that this is the EN WP. That said, each EN WP article already links through to the corresponding pages in potentially all other-language WPs. This particular page, en:w:List of gairaigo and wasei-eigo terms, doesn't happen to have an exact correlation on the JA WP, or indeed in apparently any other WP site, so there's nothing listed in the "languages" sidebar on the left. Consequently, including a link to a close analog ( List of Japanese words of French origin in the JA WP) is useful to readers looking to find relevant content in the JA WP.
In brief, including the link to the page on the JA WP is 1) relevant, and 2) useful, and also 3) not harmful to this page in any way that I can understand.
Could you please lay out a case for why this link should not be included?
‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 23:23, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
==External links==
were the appropriate location.==See also==
section alongside the links to the glossaries for Portuguese- and Dutch-derived Japanese terms. ‑‑
Eiríkr Útlendi │
Tala við mig 18:24, 2 December 2021 (UTC)I'm not a wikipedia master, so please be gentle... I'm honestly very surprised to see a decades-old heap of unsourced entries here (many of which having a large question mark over them in terms of 2022 usage.) I thought that Wikipedia is not supposed to be a dictionary. I also thought that wikipedia isn't an unfiltered mass of information. Where is the encyclopaedic value in this page?
Lack of sources is not an issue if sources exist and can be found. However, not only is this article poorly assembled, even updating it with citations and more real-world examples would not solve its lack of encyclopaedic value. An encyclopaedia gives us a summary of knowledge on a topic. This article isn't knowledge, it's a list of words. Forming it into something with encyclopaedic value seems as though it would require a well-sourced examination of a narrower selection of popular loan words. At that point, would it not be a better investment to focus directly on the wasei-eigo page itself?
If a person knows nothing about loan words in Japanese, isn't it fair to imagine that they'd be best served by reading an encyclopaedic article on loan words in Japanese, including a few well-researched examples of commonly used loan words? If that individual is inspired to seek out a large volume of words and phrases, isn't that almost precisely the purpose served by a dictionary? In short, is this article not something that might belong on Wiktionary, not on Wikipedia?
I see in the deletion debate on this topic 5 years ago that someone mentioned the existence of many such 'list of English words of ___ origin' pages, as if that justifies this article's existence. I feel that the argument, 'many other similar articles exist so this one should stay', is not productive. While it's a good idea to try to behave consistently according to the guidelines, treating localised decisions on specific pages as votes on site-wide changes is only going to choke and stifle discussion, and make achieving progress feel impossible.
Reading the talk pages of many of these similar articles shows me that there are consistent concerns similar to mine on this topic, but as the volume of debate is small, they rarely achieve enough inertia to find a lasting consensus. 2001:240:2405:8BF:CCAD:BF21:7459:FF17 ( talk) 04:24, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
I'm not sure about the word's origin, but English has this word too, so it's might be a loanword in Japanese. Epyxoid ( talk) 17:12, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
日本人からしたら…読んでて面白い。 幾つか偏見的に見えるところも散見するが。 兎にも角にも日本語は難しい。文法における自由度や場面に於いての使い分けが複雑が故だとは思う。 もし、"日本人が普段使う外国人に通じない語集"として纏めるならば、それはある意味で今後の日本人にとっても有用であるとは思える。 業界用語となると、途端にカタカナでの表現が増える、しかし元の言葉と意味合いが同じ事は多いが、用法や意味が異なる場合があるし、組み合わせや略称によっては分かりにくいものもあるだろう。 何でも表にしたら膨大な量になるだろうし、説明を要する物とある程度分ける必要があるだろう。 表について云うと、日本語の性質上として標準抑揚や場面をあわせて書くべきかもしれないですね。 また、外国に於いて本来の日本語とは別の意味の言葉も幾つかあるので、これも纏めるのも良いかも知れない。 T ohm83 ( talk) 12:47, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
Well, what is it? There is a "dynamic list" template, which says that the list is "dynamic", which means constantly changing, but also asserts that the answer is to add more entries. So is it the purpose of the article to list as far as possible all Japanese loans from non-Chinese languages? Or is there a criterion for selectivity?
Recently someone added an entry:
I guess that actually it came from the English "(to run) amok"; which came originally from Malay. But there are no sources supporting almost every claim made by this article, even if for very many it is pretty obvious. But if I delete this one as dubious, since unsourced, there will be a preference for words which "obviously" came from English. This does not seem very good, so what arguments are there for not deleting the article? Imaginatorium ( talk) 14:28, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 26 February 2017. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | The contents of the List of wasei-eigo page were merged into List of gairaigo and wasei-eigo terms on 14 February 2020. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
"Horumon" is not a loan word (this article mistakes it as coming from the word hormone). It is the Kansai dialect; horu = to throw away or discard, and mon (mono) = things. Literally, the things one throws away. It means the parts of the animal that originally no one wanted to eat (internal organs), hence they were discarded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.30.5 ( talk) 14:22, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
We already have wasei-eigo and gairaigo ... do we need this article too? Not to mention the fact that many would consider the article title offensive. CES 13:12, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
If memory serves, aren't "sarariman" (salaryman) and "bi-bi" (bye bye)? (Please forgive my undoubtedly incorrect Janglish spellings). -- John Fader ( talk | contribs) 23:53, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've heard that a number of famous/important sites in New York City have been "nipponized" by resident Japanese. Would those be relevant to this article, or is this only for terms originating from Japan? -- Feitclub 01:32, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
I would like to submit the term 'doctor-stop.' I Googled it and there are a couple of Japanese sites that feature it in the title (there's a TV series, a CD...) -- so I think it's legitimate. What it means is: when the doctor tells you to stop doing something. For instance, "I got a doctor-stop on drinking coffee."
Derived from English "costume-play," kosupure (sp?) means a costume fetish, or wearing costumes during sex.
What the hell is up with the collation of this list? It's wrong for japanese, and it's wrong for english. I added my entry where it seemed the current system wanted it to go, but really we should pick one option and fix the order of the whole list so it makes some sense. As this is en.wikip probably collating english style on the hepburn is the best option. -- zippedmartin 10:59, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
I would propose that gairaigo that are taken "as is" from English should be removed from this list. If you included such entries, the list could potentially have thousands of entries. We should limit it to the following:
Based on these criteria, I suggest that the following be deleted, since there's nothing particularly interesting about them.
Also, I propose that this list be reordered in proper Japanese dictionary order...which it's pretty close to right now, but it's a little bit ambiguous in some cases, such as ka vs ga.
CES,
I agree it was originally misleading--I should have done what you did in adding "but most come from English..."; nonetheless, English is mentioned in the first sentence as forming a major sub-component, the wasei-eigo. Thanks for helping out -- Dpr 03:16, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
What is the purpose of "cf table(French)?" I don't think it's significant that the English word came from the French word...after all that applies to something like a third of the English language...
Here are some words that could be added if they're not already there. I don't have a dictionary at hand to look up exact spellings or derivations. If you put any into the article, it might be worth deleting from this list, or striking out.
What is the reason for saying that plus alpha is a misreading of plus x? Fg2 08:50, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
-> Response, this was basically copied from the Japanese Wikipedia (I've seen it in other sources too). I guess that if you write in cursive / italics especially, the characters α and x can look pretty similar. Kcumming 06:44, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Take a look at the definition given here: [1]. Ignore the bit where they say it's equivalent to "preview" in English; what they're describing is clearly a film's commercial premiere. And if you Google "テレビロードショー" or something similar, you'll find several uses that have nothing to do with theatres. -- Lanius 15:15, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
There are thousands and thousands of gairaigo in Japanese. Most English words can and are sometimes borrowed in Japanese. Wikipedia is not a dictionary, but I think a listing of wasei-eigo/wasei-gairaigo is interesting enough to warrant an entry. What I propose is that this list is moved to the title "List of wasei-garaigo" (or possibly "wasei-eigo"), and remove all the gairaigo. Some of the entries now are just stupid, such as アイ・ラブ・ユー, sure, it's the way Japanese pronounce it but it is in no way a part of the Japanese language. Mackan 14:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I partially agree. See above (proposed removals). I think there's no point to having straight English loan words...there could be tens of thousands. Unless there's some real valid objection, I'm going to do some pruning some time soon. Kcumming 16:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I decided there should be a new list page for terms that are often mistaken for being gairaigo.
Take a look and let me know what you think. -- Kcumming 04:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
The entry for バター mentions margarine as well, but for the most part, margarine is マーガリン (link is to Japanese wikipedia). Is there any specific instance where バター is mislabelled on margerine as currently described in the バター line of the article? Neier 23:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I have seen that some gairaigo words are referring to Portuguese. However some are closer to Spanish than Portuguese, for example pan. Gairaigo:pan, Spanish:pan, English:bread
Don’t forget that Filipinas was a Spanish colony where Spanish was talk. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.97.233.91 ( talk) 10:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC).
To my recollection, the Portuguese were not the ONLY Iberians in Japan. It was both the Spanish and the Portuguese. The Franciscans and the Jesuits. In fact, the Japanese ships had made contacts with the Spanish in New Spain. Seems like someone just lumped everything into Portuguese for the sake of expedience, considering how it would be nearly impossible to make the disctinctions since both language are very similar. However, it is incorrect to lump Portuguese and Spanish together without giving any credit or mention of the Spanish. 68.123.239.146 ( talk) 10:37, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
This one is a common misunderstanding. Because it is often written "animé" people assume it must come from French (people assume the same about toire sometimes). Aside from the fact that my Japanese dictionary, which is listed as a reference at the bottom of the page, shows that it is an English loanword, there is the fact that it makes no sense to assume it comes from French. A quick check of a French dictionary ( http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/animation) shows that animation is pronounced such that the ma sounds like ma and not mé. Also, this word was probably borrowed in the mid 20th century, when increased American cultural influence meant that the majority of loan words came from English. -- Kcumming 15:31, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not disputing the insertion of "orai", I was actually on the verge of doing so myself, but is it ever heard outside the context of a car or truck reversing with the driver's friend watching at the back calling it out? -- DrHacky 07:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
to: DrHacky
My explanation is somewhat over statement or exaggeration. the Orai usage is recommended in the situation that every thing is OK or no problem if counter part person is wondering about problem or obstacle to go, and if you find it OK, "Orai" is usable as immediate response or go-ahead sign. if you response with Orai in 1 minute later, it sound funny or not fit as smooth conversation. OK is much more useful for most situation, and most Japanese understand. Vehicle navigation with Orai is origin usage and still good use. Orai is not replaceable OK in all the time.-- Namazu-tron 10:33, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Namazu-tron, thanks for your recent edits. It's good to have the perspective of a native speaker here. I made some changes to some of your edits. Much of it seemed to be etymological information, so I moved those instances to the origin column. Some other ones were redundant so I removed them. One of the others was difficult to understand. I'll post it here for clarification:
I'm not sure of the meaning of that. Could you elaborate?
Thanks again, I hope to see more from you. Kcumming 16:27, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Discussion for Gairaigo arigatō ( I write here than "discussion of Gairaigo", because discussion of Gairaigo is quite neet and no discussion at all), " arigatō": Comment for Gairaigo Misconceptions, the word arigatō. "arigato" is the variation of "Arigatai", and is separated to ari+gatai. Ari is to represents "in being" or "existing". gatai is be difficult or not easy thing. Originally it means "human being" is difficult in being in this world. There is a one Verse in Dhammapada. This is in context, "We, human being is to alive in this world is difficult or no easy, and although shall be die in some day, we are in being with life but each one's life exist in this world itself is difficult thing, rare happening or kind of miracle." Arigato is originally thanks (to God) on all of us, we are exist with life in this world now. The one of Buddhism's idea or philosophy. I am not sure that people use "arigato" know such origin. -- Namazu-tron 11:30, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Very recent(3-5 years may be) popular gairaigo among Japanese, "バッティング""battengu" not listed here yet, is said from English word=Butting, meaning, competing in business, in with different opinion, in love with other person, such as dual or triple or more offers, bidding and etc as in such conditions. Is to understand this gairaigo derived from English word "butting" or "butt" acceptable ? I can not clearly find this meaning on word "butt" in my dictionary.-- Namazu-tron 05:08, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
"バッティング""battengu is used for batting in baseball, and still used, sample and typical usage in Japan is Matsui, Matsui or Ichoro does good batting today, he is good batting player, some need more batting practice, and so on. By the way, though I'm now live in Tokyo area, my country is the same to Hideki, only 30 minutes drive. another "battengu" or butting become popular in any talks and publication on newspaper or weely magazine( mostly, not top grade publications) , but not used by NHK or eminent newspaper officially yet, I guess. But "battengu" is understandable word for most people. Example are: company A wants merge B, and also C wants too, in such competitive stage, "A and C are in butting, or doing battengu. supermarket A and C wants open and propose to community opening strategy, A and C are doing battengu or in battengu status/conditions. In early use of battengu is for such business terms. Then now used, even used to love competition, not many people though, but understandable in hearing. Even eminent commentator on TV does use word butting, "battengu" today. I believe battengu, derived batting and butting, different meaning and different English origin is eligible to list up on gairaigo here, and it might be a good guide for people to Japan from overseas or Gaijin here in Japan. Is anyone try to list up, then watch someone does comment, modify, or DELETE.-- Namazu-tron 11:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
PS: Analogy is male bull or moose head-butting to get female, mostly on business and even acceptable usage on love affair in Japan today.-- Namazu-tron 11:31, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
This is the talking Japanese originated words rather than gairaigo, but I would like to your help for definition. For these, transmit or transmission, Japanese has two words. "tensou 転送" literally refer to sending with roll out, apply to transmission between PC and peripheral equipment(s) without signal form change such as modulation, transmit anything in very proximity or short distance, or transfer mail, cargo, a thing with form or style as it is, or without change. Another word "densou 伝送" literally refer to send or relay with telling or talking/speaking, apply to transmit signal with modulation and this "densou" apply to communication technology area only. not use like to do "densou" the cargo. "tensou" the cargo is correct usage in Japanese. If engineer use "tensou" for telecommunication which send to far distance location, he is not expert in Japan, he should use "densou" instead. My question is, is there different word(s) to discriminate above two condition which Japanese does? -- Namazu-tron 01:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I can find no trace of such a word in Portuguese, and my wife, a native speaker, has never heard of it. So I put 'miira' here until someone can find what language, if any, it is from. |- |ミイラ |miira |mirra |a mummy |Portuguese - Rothorpe 20:45, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Ever checked Germanism article? This really looks like the same on a copy of this (e. g. ryukkusakku an all those derived from German are listed again, so we have almost everything twice). Should we maybe remove all J-germanisms from the other article and link to this one here? .andy 92.229.164.237 ( talk) 15:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
It would be nice to have statistics, such as 80% English, 4% French, etc... Some research might have been done, or... do we have enough words to make our own meaningful statistics ? Thanks! Nicolas1981 ( talk) 10:15, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
While this article has entertainment value, and it's fun to chime in with our own additions from time to time, I doubt the suitability of this list existing in Wikipedia. Both whether the content should be included in Wikipedia in the first place and then whether list format is appropriate. First of all, unlike in Wiktionary, which in theory we could move the entire collection over to, we are limiting ourselves to having a tiny row to put each entry in. There's also the issue of scalability and notability and meeting Wikipedia's requirements (e.g. WP:INDISCRIMINATE). Or, perhaps the info could be moved to a wiki site that's better specialized for katakana-go than Wiktionary. Or am I being unnecessarily doubtful here? — Tokek ( talk) 09:57, 2 August 2009 (UTC) (Oops, checked the "minor edit" checkbox by mistake. My bad. — Tokek ( talk) 09:59, 2 August 2009 (UTC))
Don't we need an article of Japanese words of German origin? I think it touches upon an important aspect of Germany-Japan relations: academic and technological cooperation. The Japanese article ja:ドイツ語から日本語への借用 lists the following:
Shinkansen Fan ( talk) 02:50, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
It's the word Japanese use for Jesus. I think it should be deleted or at least corrected. I noticed this word is said to be from Portuguese, but the name Jesus is spelled and pronounced exactly the same way in Church Latin, and given that the first Japanese Christians were converted by Catholic missionaries, this is the likely etymology. 68.106.222.230 ( talk) 08:40, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
I spotted at least 2 or 3 mistakes.
Gaze and Fanfare are not from German, but from French (even the spelling makes it obvious. There are obviously not originally German).
You can see here that French was the source of the speading of the terms (here in English but it's true in many European countries)
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=gauze&searchmode=none
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=fanfare&searchmode=none
Pinsetto also comes from French pincette not from Dutch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Waggg ( talk • contribs) 11:24, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Just by accident I spotted this one. Might belong into the list as well. There is no such thing as a "photo stand" in English; it would be called a picture frame there. However, there is also a more sophisticated term for it in Japanese language, which, however, is harder to write since it must be written in kanji: 写真立て :) -andy 77.191.195.135 ( talk) 13:44, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
Not to say that mama doesn't have uses specific to Japanese (eg female bar owner as referred by her staff and/or patrons) as well as being one of the ways to refer to one's mother, but to claim it is a loanword requires some more proof, because as a sequence of sounds it occurs across all languages during the early stages of language acquisition along with papa, tata and dada. All of them end up being used as kinship terms one way or another (for one, Japanese 'haha' (mother) probably derives from 'papa' in earlier stages of Japanese). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.7.24.125 ( talk) 06:44, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
The word アルコール entered Japan via Dutch and not Portuguese. In both languages it was borrowed from Arabic, but it is established that the modern Japanese pronunciation is based on the Dutch one. I suggest mentioning that the word origin is "Arabic via Dutch".
https://ja.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB#.E8.AA.9E.E6.BA.90 -- Barnblan ( talk) 07:35, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Nahuatl is certainly the source of the word "tomato". What seems almost equally certain to me is that Japanese imported the word by way of English. The criterion is "The language names do not indicate the origin of the word, but the languages from which Japan first learned the words" (see above). 137.205.100.161 ( talk) 12:16, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
In fact, some words (Latin, Sanskrit, Indo-European classics) are borrowed from/via chinese, english, german... Is ゼン "zen (禅 禪 Dhyāna)" needed to list? For example, 旦那 "danna" is a Sanskrit word " dāna" via chinese. But this article have only the word ゼン "zen".
I saw this article at 837356072 [2] for the first time. -- 3代目窓屋 ( talk) 09:27, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
It seems to me there is a basic problem with this list, namely that you can't tell which are gairaigo and which are wasei-eigo, so I think it would smart if we split them into two tables. Ideally that task would be better suited for someone whose Japanese is not as rusty as mine. — howcheng { chat} 16:46, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
Santropedro ( talk) 02:41, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
wtf, nerds. Clean this up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:602:9E00:E620:B039:87B8:F848:F91F ( talk) 23:52, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
I am having a hard time finding reliable sources for ウーパールーパー, meaning axolotl, being derived from English. While it is written in katakana, Wooper looper is not an English term, so this is not WP:SKYBLUE obvious. Browsing Google book results for "Wooper Looper" seem to suggest that the term is Japanese, or used in Japan or similar. Jstore has 0 hits for "Wooper looper", and Google Scholar only has a couple that are not helpful, suggesting this term has little-to-no academic usage, even in linguistics.
Wiktionary said this
in 2017: (1985) named so in a TV commercial, from English super- and looper (“inchworm”), to avoid アホロートル, which is homophone with アホロートル (“stupid old fart”).
but the details were trimmed a month later. No source is provided, and Wiktionary is not a reliable source for Wikipedia. The etymology seems plausible, but without a source it's indistinguishable from
folk etymology. (Also, why wouldn't it be "スーパールーパー"?)
@
DrHacky: has suggested that
the Jisho.org entry supports this. This is a very useful site, but it is a labor of love that compiles information from elsewhere. It's
about page says The data used in Jisho comes from a variety of open source projects.
This includes Wikipedia and other sites which host user-generated content (
WP:UGC). Entries are mainly populated from
JMDict. The
JMDict entry for this word doesn't mention etymology.
Per Wikipedia:Verifiability#Wikipedia and sources that mirror or use it, the potential risk here is "citogenesis", where an assumption or misconception remains because was added to Wikipedia in the past, not because independent, reliable sources have looked at it. it would be very nice to find sources for this to potentially prevent spreading misinformation. Sources would be useful both here, and potentially at jp:メキシコサンショウウオ. Grayfell ( talk) 19:30, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
@ Yohaya:, no argument with your edit comment that this is the EN WP. That said, each EN WP article already links through to the corresponding pages in potentially all other-language WPs. This particular page, en:w:List of gairaigo and wasei-eigo terms, doesn't happen to have an exact correlation on the JA WP, or indeed in apparently any other WP site, so there's nothing listed in the "languages" sidebar on the left. Consequently, including a link to a close analog ( List of Japanese words of French origin in the JA WP) is useful to readers looking to find relevant content in the JA WP.
In brief, including the link to the page on the JA WP is 1) relevant, and 2) useful, and also 3) not harmful to this page in any way that I can understand.
Could you please lay out a case for why this link should not be included?
‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 23:23, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
==External links==
were the appropriate location.==See also==
section alongside the links to the glossaries for Portuguese- and Dutch-derived Japanese terms. ‑‑
Eiríkr Útlendi │
Tala við mig 18:24, 2 December 2021 (UTC)I'm not a wikipedia master, so please be gentle... I'm honestly very surprised to see a decades-old heap of unsourced entries here (many of which having a large question mark over them in terms of 2022 usage.) I thought that Wikipedia is not supposed to be a dictionary. I also thought that wikipedia isn't an unfiltered mass of information. Where is the encyclopaedic value in this page?
Lack of sources is not an issue if sources exist and can be found. However, not only is this article poorly assembled, even updating it with citations and more real-world examples would not solve its lack of encyclopaedic value. An encyclopaedia gives us a summary of knowledge on a topic. This article isn't knowledge, it's a list of words. Forming it into something with encyclopaedic value seems as though it would require a well-sourced examination of a narrower selection of popular loan words. At that point, would it not be a better investment to focus directly on the wasei-eigo page itself?
If a person knows nothing about loan words in Japanese, isn't it fair to imagine that they'd be best served by reading an encyclopaedic article on loan words in Japanese, including a few well-researched examples of commonly used loan words? If that individual is inspired to seek out a large volume of words and phrases, isn't that almost precisely the purpose served by a dictionary? In short, is this article not something that might belong on Wiktionary, not on Wikipedia?
I see in the deletion debate on this topic 5 years ago that someone mentioned the existence of many such 'list of English words of ___ origin' pages, as if that justifies this article's existence. I feel that the argument, 'many other similar articles exist so this one should stay', is not productive. While it's a good idea to try to behave consistently according to the guidelines, treating localised decisions on specific pages as votes on site-wide changes is only going to choke and stifle discussion, and make achieving progress feel impossible.
Reading the talk pages of many of these similar articles shows me that there are consistent concerns similar to mine on this topic, but as the volume of debate is small, they rarely achieve enough inertia to find a lasting consensus. 2001:240:2405:8BF:CCAD:BF21:7459:FF17 ( talk) 04:24, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
I'm not sure about the word's origin, but English has this word too, so it's might be a loanword in Japanese. Epyxoid ( talk) 17:12, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
日本人からしたら…読んでて面白い。 幾つか偏見的に見えるところも散見するが。 兎にも角にも日本語は難しい。文法における自由度や場面に於いての使い分けが複雑が故だとは思う。 もし、"日本人が普段使う外国人に通じない語集"として纏めるならば、それはある意味で今後の日本人にとっても有用であるとは思える。 業界用語となると、途端にカタカナでの表現が増える、しかし元の言葉と意味合いが同じ事は多いが、用法や意味が異なる場合があるし、組み合わせや略称によっては分かりにくいものもあるだろう。 何でも表にしたら膨大な量になるだろうし、説明を要する物とある程度分ける必要があるだろう。 表について云うと、日本語の性質上として標準抑揚や場面をあわせて書くべきかもしれないですね。 また、外国に於いて本来の日本語とは別の意味の言葉も幾つかあるので、これも纏めるのも良いかも知れない。 T ohm83 ( talk) 12:47, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
Well, what is it? There is a "dynamic list" template, which says that the list is "dynamic", which means constantly changing, but also asserts that the answer is to add more entries. So is it the purpose of the article to list as far as possible all Japanese loans from non-Chinese languages? Or is there a criterion for selectivity?
Recently someone added an entry:
I guess that actually it came from the English "(to run) amok"; which came originally from Malay. But there are no sources supporting almost every claim made by this article, even if for very many it is pretty obvious. But if I delete this one as dubious, since unsourced, there will be a preference for words which "obviously" came from English. This does not seem very good, so what arguments are there for not deleting the article? Imaginatorium ( talk) 14:28, 26 October 2023 (UTC)