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![]() | The contents of the Lewis Henry Morgan Lecture page were merged into Lewis H. Morgan. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. (May 24, 2023) |
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Full titles of books and additional facts. Tmesipt 2.8.04.
Could be more on his role in helping get first-cousin marriage banned in a number of U.S. states... AnonMoos ( talk) 02:50, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
"The errors of the unilinear evolutionists are apparent to us, with more than 100 years of observation. So it might be thought that they were ethnocentric, with their assessment of the developmental stages of other societies was heavily biased by their assumption that contemporary Western culture represents the pinnacle of evolutionary achievement, "(Discovering Our Past, Ashmore and Sharer).
The errors of Morgan's concepts of unilinear social developments are in great need of pointing out. Such errors contributed to Marx's and Lenin's flawed conclusions.
Mydogtrouble ( talk) 18:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
I never did like the "leftist" and "rightist" categories I was taught in such political science as I took in school. I was a bit too young to understand McCarthyism. I had to learn all about cold war ideology growing up mainly the hard way. In the end it became pretty plain that some people had a vested interest in keeping the horrible thing going, and they were worse than any arms peddlars. To all of you I can say, stick it in your ear, whether you sit in oil company board rooms or restlessly pace the halls of government looking frequently over your shoulders. Here in this article we are going to be objective. Morgan is portrayed as being somehow on the left. This is because some theorists now considered on the left happened to adopt Morgan's views. I don't think he knew a thing about it and couldn't care less. So Darwin was a leftist, hey? And Sigmund Freud? Well, I cannot say that I agree. Those terms had little meaning to begin with and have even less now. Let's have some plain dealing concerning Morgan. It appears as though I will have to work on this article. In hindsight it is as easy to criticise Morgan as it is Hegel. Neither of them knew anything at all of the scientific developments following their work. So, let's keep it fair. These are early theorists. They are entitled to the same objectivity as all the other early theorists from Thales to Leonardo. Moreover, Darwin is not a leftist and we cannot become rich leading movements to overthrow Darwin the communist. This is not Guernica and we don't need Homo taurinus here. Dave ( talk) 00:43, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
Removed paragraph:
"In 1844, Morgan moved to Rochester, New York, still within former Iroquois territory. He expanded his interests to learn more about Iroquois society. With the help of fellow "warriors," including the Seneca attorney and engineer Ely S. Parker, Morgan started to do pathbreaking ethnographic work: he studied facts to understand Iroquois society on its own terms. Inspired by Parker, Morgan and his fellow warriors worked to protect the Tonawanda Seneca reservation from being broken up by men eager for its land."
This paragraph is, I think, a result of trying to get something up in a hurry without doing any of the work! This sort of approach diminishes the "encyclopedia"'s general utility as the people's encyclopedia. There's a major anachronism and gross misunderstanding in it. The famous general Parker, who wrote out Grant's terms at Appomatox, was 16 when he encountered Morgan by accident in a bookstore. It was the New Confederacy that sent him to Cayuga Academy and then Renssalaer Polytech. It was the New Confederacy also that stepped into the Seneca law case and created the publicity campaign that exposed the real estate company and saved the remaining Iroquois lands. Never assume anything according to what YOU think is the way things happened. Always check it out. I can't tell you how often that message was drummed - and I mean drummed - into my head during my educational process. If, for example, you happen to be in the service and the commander wants to know where the enemy is and what he is doing, it might be something less than propitious to concoct a fairy story based on your feelings of self-righteousness, no matter how self-justified you may feel. Many have done it no doubt. The Pinkerton Agency led McClellan to think he was faced with a confederate force many time greater than it was until LIncoln had to remove him for inaction. A word to the wise, etc. Dave ( talk) 12:21, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
In articles about scholars, these usually include major works, even when discussed in the body of the article. It allows readers to easily see the progression of someone's work, rather than having titles buried. Morgan's books were more important than his articles, so should be listed with publication dates. Parkwells ( talk) 16:52, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
All right. I read over what you did so far. I'm probably being a bit unreasonable. First I demand you contribute. Then I criticise you when you do. Don't get carried away by this admission, however. I got two comments to make, which I covered in my previous comments. I notice that you did substitute your opinions for mine. But, in the context of WP, I would not call them opinions in a major sense. They are not political or ideological opinions, only introductory or transitional sentences, little digests or lead-ins, so to speak, devices or presentation. Any real opinions would not be allowed. We have to use the opinions of the sources. If you want to call him a multi-faceted yankee, I don't regard that as an opinion that has to be supported by a references. Strictly speaking unless you have a good reason to change it, you should not. I could do as some sysadmins do, change it all back. I wrote it, why should you rewrite it if it is not wrong? However in your case I am going to allow some leeway. I suppose your transitions are as good as mine. They appear to be. So, I am going to let you do it so that I will not be in the unreasonable position of encouraging work I will not allow. There is one caveat. You are still having trouble with your English. I do not know the reason and I do not care. Specifically there are small inappropriate phrases, turns of speech not used, and especially you don't seem to understand the sequences of tenses very well. That is all right, I will fix it. So I suppose on this basis we can go forward. After I fix the current changes I may not look at this for a bit so I can get moving on a couple of other articles but I will be back. Understand, I'm not commenting on anything beyond where I have gotten so that is all to go. By the way, there is an error in my stuff. The business about the restoration is wrong. Some theorist had that opinion. I am going to fix that next. Dave ( talk) 05:17, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
PS Later. Hello Parkwells. As I go through the sources I keep discovering small errors of over-simplification, not yours, but everyone's. Once I know something is in error, I have to fix it. So, what I wrote must be regarded as incomplete. I appreciate your editorial changes. If I change something I wrote but you edited I may have to change your edits. We'll just keep working on it. Sooner or later it will start coming out right. By the way, some persons who even knew Morgan don't remember very well or only knew part of the story so this is a problem of getting accurate biography in general, not something related to WP. Don't get too elated, however, your English still needs improvement. 66.30.95.118 ( talk) 12:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC) Darn it, I forgot to log in. Dave ( talk) 12:31, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Talk about Gordion knots, this affair is the biggest knot of all. Its complexities alone are the subject of a book: who passed what when and was that valid. None of the general sources including people who actually participated are giving an overall comprehensible account of the complexities of this case, which seems to be a kind of American Schleswig-Holstein. In essence some of the colonial settlers were trying to take all the native lands and push the natives north and west. They were using every underhanded ploy they could think of. The majority of natives gave up the fight and moved away leaving the land to be sold for incredible profits. Some stayed and fought with the help of sympathetic colonials such as Morgan. We can't possibly cover all that in this article or even in the article on the Holland Land Company. I put in there information relating to Morgan from some sources that seemed more reliable. We ought to say enough to convey the passions which these events aroused. They launched Morgan into his career. If any of you can make a better summary of this affair from valid sources, you got my blessing. Dave ( talk) 10:58, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
It seems as though we should have some pics in here. Dave ( talk) 18:30, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Terrific additions. Parkwells ( talk) 15:14, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Is Mt. Hope Cemetary a local spelling? usually it's cemetery with two e's. Parkwells ( talk) 15:13, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Well that is it for the first pass on the biography. As I promised I deleted the paragraph on the etymology of the name. Someone meanwhile edited the Morgan name article so it looked to be in pretty good shape. What I had was no match for it so I tossed mine out. In my experience one discards at least half of what one writes and probably should discard more. This is one reason I don't get angrier with the famous admin from Germany, dab, who likes to take your last few days of work and unceremoniously dump it. That is how editors are I fear.
Now, I did leave in some additional work on the American Morgans. That is because Morgan prided himself on his family background. As I said before he was not a working man and made no pretense to be. That is a piece of left-wing cant. For example, Stalin portrayed himself as a machinist risen to power. As soon as he started with those words the blood of his formerly middle-class audience ran cold as they usually preceded a ride home by Beria and a swift end in the back of an automobile or a nice vacation in Siberia, the final frontier. In fact Stalin came from a good family and was in a monastery as a young man. There is some evidence that for a while he was a British agent. The investigation was hindered by his removal of his family connections from the business of living. That way, Stalin could be a true working-class hero, a humble working man risen to the dictatorship of the proletariat.
We don't need that cant in here. Morgan came from a wealthy family. They included JP Morgan and a good many others. He was the owner of a steel company. He did not consider himself an ordinary man. He shunned the acquaintance of ordinary men. If it was up to him, slaves would yet be sold down the river. His social visions were strictly theoretical. He never soiled his hands with it. Although such activism as he cared to contribute was appreciated by his beneficiaries, still some mumbo-jumbo on the part of white boys playing Indian in the Mason Hall was no substitute for a real defense of the natives. The problem was, they had tried remove the English from New England by violent means, had failed and now their own tenure was forfeit.
Did Morgan consider himself noble? Certainly. So did all the republicans in those days. They liked to form secret societies that would guide the affairs of men in the directions they deemed were morally best. The puritan conviction of moral superiority fit right in with that approach. All this appealed greatly to the early communists, who wanted to form a secret vanguard to move society in ideologically correct directions. They wanted to progress from savagery to civilization and were going to start telling people what was civilized and what not. Morgan gave them the opportunity to do that. History repeats itself. In ancient Greece whenever the philosophers got control of the state they did such a terrible job that in the end the people turned on them and got rid of the threat by physical means. So the Pythagoreans were massacred, being hunted down like animals, much as were the Protestants in Paris and the Knights Templar. So we have the noble Morgan, king of the theory of social progress, intending only freedom for the natives, turning out to be the ultimate excuse for their genocide. In fact if you read the letters of Morgan and his associates you will see that their real attitude is disdain. They are doing the evanescent savages a favor by bringing them into civilization whether they will or no. That way they can defend themselves against the depradations of white thieves and murderers. Why did they not just attack the thieves and murderers? John Brown saw through all that cant and moved to more direct solutions. As he had broken the laws of the state of Virginia they hanged him, an event with which lawyer Morgan agreed.
Well you can see I am setting up for some advice on the theoretical section, which, apart from moving stuff around, I have not touched. Currently it says nothing. It is only WP fill-in full of tags, worth nothing to anyone. I've avoided doing this because of its importance and difficulty. In my initial efforts on ancient society I quoted Morgan extensively and in that quoting got accused of interpreting. Really? Well, Maybe Morgan didn't say those things. Maybe he took some other view but wrote in invisible ink between the lines so that only some of us can read it. I would say, let's call a spade a spade. We don't want any leftist selection or leftist cant here. Neither do we want any more cold war terror about this. Morgan was not a working man. He was not a Marxist. It is safe to say he was an anthropologist and a social theorist based on minimal social activism.
What should go in here? I would say, precis of some of the views of modern cultural anthropologists concerning Morgan's thought. These will not be able to be extensive. We can't do the subject justice. Probably just some pointers will have to do. That is what I plan to do when I get back on this article. Meanwhile, if you want to take a shot at it, WP encourages you to do that. I know I contributed a lot. No policy against that. Don't stand in awe of me (don't try to abuse me, either). On the biography I think I covered most of what was available on the Internet. In subsequent passes I may try to sharpen the detail by resorting to library books. For now though I have reached a logical break point so you will not see me here for a while. Not too long I hope. And, I can't do more on the Ancient Society one until this gets done. Just regard me as an informal pundit of the Pundit Club, an ongoing fan, so to speak. Whir, whir. Dave ( talk) 14:03, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Given that the article is about Lewis Morgan, and only secondarily about his father, it seems questionable to include material about the decline of freemasonry following a scandal that happened after Jedediah died, despite a historian suggesting that he would have been affected if he were still living. This doesn't seem to have had anything to do with Jedediah's success. Why include it?
The sentences I'm questioning are the following: "His {Jedediah's] success was finally clouded when the disappearance of a man who had threatened to reveal Masonic secrets sparked anti-Masonic sentiment (the Morgan affair). Porter reports, "Masonry had suffered an eclipse in western New York." [1] Members abandoned the lodges of the region, including the Aurora lodge. Jedediah would have been involved in scandal, except that he died in 1826, when Lewis was only eight. [2] Parkwells ( talk) 18:36, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
References
Did not start until 1879 Carlisle Indian School, and had their major growth in the first half of the twentieth century. In Grant's time, schooling was usually by mission schools on reservations. The government's taking children away to send them to distant boarding schools started happening later than Grant. Parkwells ( talk) 15:15, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
In the US, Native Americans or American Indians are the preferred terms, not "natives". Parkwells ( talk) 15:15, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
To be a "capitalist" and have died, c. 1880, you need to actually be a Capitalist, e.g. an arbitrageur, financier like Carnegie, Rockefeller, etc. As a political stance which is what this odd thing put in the lede was, nobody was "capitalist" in 1880 because although there were "socialists", there was no socialism, no communist states, and no other of socialism/reaction calling itself "capitalist". There were actual capitalists as mentioned but any other usage is anachronistic for an individual that died before Marx. 72.228.190.243 ( talk) 15:52, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
Are there any fictional portrayals, or references to him in popular culture? Wikinetman ( talk) 14:44, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
This does not appear to be independently notable from Morgan himself. Star Mississippi 02:51, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
Of course "Marx never finished his own book". Indeed Marx never begun such a book. In Marx notebooks, there are few comments and mostly quotations of Morgan. Engels used the notebooks. He had little material to "continue" "Marx’s analysis". (Though the choice of the quotations gives some indication of what Marx thought on some points.) There is no such thing as "Marx’s analysis" of Morgan or "Marx’s analysis" of primitive societies. Dominique Meeùs ( talk) 19:08, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The contents of the Lewis Henry Morgan Lecture page were merged into Lewis H. Morgan. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. (May 24, 2023) |
![]() | Daily page views
|
Full titles of books and additional facts. Tmesipt 2.8.04.
Could be more on his role in helping get first-cousin marriage banned in a number of U.S. states... AnonMoos ( talk) 02:50, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
"The errors of the unilinear evolutionists are apparent to us, with more than 100 years of observation. So it might be thought that they were ethnocentric, with their assessment of the developmental stages of other societies was heavily biased by their assumption that contemporary Western culture represents the pinnacle of evolutionary achievement, "(Discovering Our Past, Ashmore and Sharer).
The errors of Morgan's concepts of unilinear social developments are in great need of pointing out. Such errors contributed to Marx's and Lenin's flawed conclusions.
Mydogtrouble ( talk) 18:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
I never did like the "leftist" and "rightist" categories I was taught in such political science as I took in school. I was a bit too young to understand McCarthyism. I had to learn all about cold war ideology growing up mainly the hard way. In the end it became pretty plain that some people had a vested interest in keeping the horrible thing going, and they were worse than any arms peddlars. To all of you I can say, stick it in your ear, whether you sit in oil company board rooms or restlessly pace the halls of government looking frequently over your shoulders. Here in this article we are going to be objective. Morgan is portrayed as being somehow on the left. This is because some theorists now considered on the left happened to adopt Morgan's views. I don't think he knew a thing about it and couldn't care less. So Darwin was a leftist, hey? And Sigmund Freud? Well, I cannot say that I agree. Those terms had little meaning to begin with and have even less now. Let's have some plain dealing concerning Morgan. It appears as though I will have to work on this article. In hindsight it is as easy to criticise Morgan as it is Hegel. Neither of them knew anything at all of the scientific developments following their work. So, let's keep it fair. These are early theorists. They are entitled to the same objectivity as all the other early theorists from Thales to Leonardo. Moreover, Darwin is not a leftist and we cannot become rich leading movements to overthrow Darwin the communist. This is not Guernica and we don't need Homo taurinus here. Dave ( talk) 00:43, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
Removed paragraph:
"In 1844, Morgan moved to Rochester, New York, still within former Iroquois territory. He expanded his interests to learn more about Iroquois society. With the help of fellow "warriors," including the Seneca attorney and engineer Ely S. Parker, Morgan started to do pathbreaking ethnographic work: he studied facts to understand Iroquois society on its own terms. Inspired by Parker, Morgan and his fellow warriors worked to protect the Tonawanda Seneca reservation from being broken up by men eager for its land."
This paragraph is, I think, a result of trying to get something up in a hurry without doing any of the work! This sort of approach diminishes the "encyclopedia"'s general utility as the people's encyclopedia. There's a major anachronism and gross misunderstanding in it. The famous general Parker, who wrote out Grant's terms at Appomatox, was 16 when he encountered Morgan by accident in a bookstore. It was the New Confederacy that sent him to Cayuga Academy and then Renssalaer Polytech. It was the New Confederacy also that stepped into the Seneca law case and created the publicity campaign that exposed the real estate company and saved the remaining Iroquois lands. Never assume anything according to what YOU think is the way things happened. Always check it out. I can't tell you how often that message was drummed - and I mean drummed - into my head during my educational process. If, for example, you happen to be in the service and the commander wants to know where the enemy is and what he is doing, it might be something less than propitious to concoct a fairy story based on your feelings of self-righteousness, no matter how self-justified you may feel. Many have done it no doubt. The Pinkerton Agency led McClellan to think he was faced with a confederate force many time greater than it was until LIncoln had to remove him for inaction. A word to the wise, etc. Dave ( talk) 12:21, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
In articles about scholars, these usually include major works, even when discussed in the body of the article. It allows readers to easily see the progression of someone's work, rather than having titles buried. Morgan's books were more important than his articles, so should be listed with publication dates. Parkwells ( talk) 16:52, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
All right. I read over what you did so far. I'm probably being a bit unreasonable. First I demand you contribute. Then I criticise you when you do. Don't get carried away by this admission, however. I got two comments to make, which I covered in my previous comments. I notice that you did substitute your opinions for mine. But, in the context of WP, I would not call them opinions in a major sense. They are not political or ideological opinions, only introductory or transitional sentences, little digests or lead-ins, so to speak, devices or presentation. Any real opinions would not be allowed. We have to use the opinions of the sources. If you want to call him a multi-faceted yankee, I don't regard that as an opinion that has to be supported by a references. Strictly speaking unless you have a good reason to change it, you should not. I could do as some sysadmins do, change it all back. I wrote it, why should you rewrite it if it is not wrong? However in your case I am going to allow some leeway. I suppose your transitions are as good as mine. They appear to be. So, I am going to let you do it so that I will not be in the unreasonable position of encouraging work I will not allow. There is one caveat. You are still having trouble with your English. I do not know the reason and I do not care. Specifically there are small inappropriate phrases, turns of speech not used, and especially you don't seem to understand the sequences of tenses very well. That is all right, I will fix it. So I suppose on this basis we can go forward. After I fix the current changes I may not look at this for a bit so I can get moving on a couple of other articles but I will be back. Understand, I'm not commenting on anything beyond where I have gotten so that is all to go. By the way, there is an error in my stuff. The business about the restoration is wrong. Some theorist had that opinion. I am going to fix that next. Dave ( talk) 05:17, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
PS Later. Hello Parkwells. As I go through the sources I keep discovering small errors of over-simplification, not yours, but everyone's. Once I know something is in error, I have to fix it. So, what I wrote must be regarded as incomplete. I appreciate your editorial changes. If I change something I wrote but you edited I may have to change your edits. We'll just keep working on it. Sooner or later it will start coming out right. By the way, some persons who even knew Morgan don't remember very well or only knew part of the story so this is a problem of getting accurate biography in general, not something related to WP. Don't get too elated, however, your English still needs improvement. 66.30.95.118 ( talk) 12:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC) Darn it, I forgot to log in. Dave ( talk) 12:31, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Talk about Gordion knots, this affair is the biggest knot of all. Its complexities alone are the subject of a book: who passed what when and was that valid. None of the general sources including people who actually participated are giving an overall comprehensible account of the complexities of this case, which seems to be a kind of American Schleswig-Holstein. In essence some of the colonial settlers were trying to take all the native lands and push the natives north and west. They were using every underhanded ploy they could think of. The majority of natives gave up the fight and moved away leaving the land to be sold for incredible profits. Some stayed and fought with the help of sympathetic colonials such as Morgan. We can't possibly cover all that in this article or even in the article on the Holland Land Company. I put in there information relating to Morgan from some sources that seemed more reliable. We ought to say enough to convey the passions which these events aroused. They launched Morgan into his career. If any of you can make a better summary of this affair from valid sources, you got my blessing. Dave ( talk) 10:58, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
It seems as though we should have some pics in here. Dave ( talk) 18:30, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Terrific additions. Parkwells ( talk) 15:14, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Is Mt. Hope Cemetary a local spelling? usually it's cemetery with two e's. Parkwells ( talk) 15:13, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Well that is it for the first pass on the biography. As I promised I deleted the paragraph on the etymology of the name. Someone meanwhile edited the Morgan name article so it looked to be in pretty good shape. What I had was no match for it so I tossed mine out. In my experience one discards at least half of what one writes and probably should discard more. This is one reason I don't get angrier with the famous admin from Germany, dab, who likes to take your last few days of work and unceremoniously dump it. That is how editors are I fear.
Now, I did leave in some additional work on the American Morgans. That is because Morgan prided himself on his family background. As I said before he was not a working man and made no pretense to be. That is a piece of left-wing cant. For example, Stalin portrayed himself as a machinist risen to power. As soon as he started with those words the blood of his formerly middle-class audience ran cold as they usually preceded a ride home by Beria and a swift end in the back of an automobile or a nice vacation in Siberia, the final frontier. In fact Stalin came from a good family and was in a monastery as a young man. There is some evidence that for a while he was a British agent. The investigation was hindered by his removal of his family connections from the business of living. That way, Stalin could be a true working-class hero, a humble working man risen to the dictatorship of the proletariat.
We don't need that cant in here. Morgan came from a wealthy family. They included JP Morgan and a good many others. He was the owner of a steel company. He did not consider himself an ordinary man. He shunned the acquaintance of ordinary men. If it was up to him, slaves would yet be sold down the river. His social visions were strictly theoretical. He never soiled his hands with it. Although such activism as he cared to contribute was appreciated by his beneficiaries, still some mumbo-jumbo on the part of white boys playing Indian in the Mason Hall was no substitute for a real defense of the natives. The problem was, they had tried remove the English from New England by violent means, had failed and now their own tenure was forfeit.
Did Morgan consider himself noble? Certainly. So did all the republicans in those days. They liked to form secret societies that would guide the affairs of men in the directions they deemed were morally best. The puritan conviction of moral superiority fit right in with that approach. All this appealed greatly to the early communists, who wanted to form a secret vanguard to move society in ideologically correct directions. They wanted to progress from savagery to civilization and were going to start telling people what was civilized and what not. Morgan gave them the opportunity to do that. History repeats itself. In ancient Greece whenever the philosophers got control of the state they did such a terrible job that in the end the people turned on them and got rid of the threat by physical means. So the Pythagoreans were massacred, being hunted down like animals, much as were the Protestants in Paris and the Knights Templar. So we have the noble Morgan, king of the theory of social progress, intending only freedom for the natives, turning out to be the ultimate excuse for their genocide. In fact if you read the letters of Morgan and his associates you will see that their real attitude is disdain. They are doing the evanescent savages a favor by bringing them into civilization whether they will or no. That way they can defend themselves against the depradations of white thieves and murderers. Why did they not just attack the thieves and murderers? John Brown saw through all that cant and moved to more direct solutions. As he had broken the laws of the state of Virginia they hanged him, an event with which lawyer Morgan agreed.
Well you can see I am setting up for some advice on the theoretical section, which, apart from moving stuff around, I have not touched. Currently it says nothing. It is only WP fill-in full of tags, worth nothing to anyone. I've avoided doing this because of its importance and difficulty. In my initial efforts on ancient society I quoted Morgan extensively and in that quoting got accused of interpreting. Really? Well, Maybe Morgan didn't say those things. Maybe he took some other view but wrote in invisible ink between the lines so that only some of us can read it. I would say, let's call a spade a spade. We don't want any leftist selection or leftist cant here. Neither do we want any more cold war terror about this. Morgan was not a working man. He was not a Marxist. It is safe to say he was an anthropologist and a social theorist based on minimal social activism.
What should go in here? I would say, precis of some of the views of modern cultural anthropologists concerning Morgan's thought. These will not be able to be extensive. We can't do the subject justice. Probably just some pointers will have to do. That is what I plan to do when I get back on this article. Meanwhile, if you want to take a shot at it, WP encourages you to do that. I know I contributed a lot. No policy against that. Don't stand in awe of me (don't try to abuse me, either). On the biography I think I covered most of what was available on the Internet. In subsequent passes I may try to sharpen the detail by resorting to library books. For now though I have reached a logical break point so you will not see me here for a while. Not too long I hope. And, I can't do more on the Ancient Society one until this gets done. Just regard me as an informal pundit of the Pundit Club, an ongoing fan, so to speak. Whir, whir. Dave ( talk) 14:03, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Given that the article is about Lewis Morgan, and only secondarily about his father, it seems questionable to include material about the decline of freemasonry following a scandal that happened after Jedediah died, despite a historian suggesting that he would have been affected if he were still living. This doesn't seem to have had anything to do with Jedediah's success. Why include it?
The sentences I'm questioning are the following: "His {Jedediah's] success was finally clouded when the disappearance of a man who had threatened to reveal Masonic secrets sparked anti-Masonic sentiment (the Morgan affair). Porter reports, "Masonry had suffered an eclipse in western New York." [1] Members abandoned the lodges of the region, including the Aurora lodge. Jedediah would have been involved in scandal, except that he died in 1826, when Lewis was only eight. [2] Parkwells ( talk) 18:36, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
References
Did not start until 1879 Carlisle Indian School, and had their major growth in the first half of the twentieth century. In Grant's time, schooling was usually by mission schools on reservations. The government's taking children away to send them to distant boarding schools started happening later than Grant. Parkwells ( talk) 15:15, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
In the US, Native Americans or American Indians are the preferred terms, not "natives". Parkwells ( talk) 15:15, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
To be a "capitalist" and have died, c. 1880, you need to actually be a Capitalist, e.g. an arbitrageur, financier like Carnegie, Rockefeller, etc. As a political stance which is what this odd thing put in the lede was, nobody was "capitalist" in 1880 because although there were "socialists", there was no socialism, no communist states, and no other of socialism/reaction calling itself "capitalist". There were actual capitalists as mentioned but any other usage is anachronistic for an individual that died before Marx. 72.228.190.243 ( talk) 15:52, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
Are there any fictional portrayals, or references to him in popular culture? Wikinetman ( talk) 14:44, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
This does not appear to be independently notable from Morgan himself. Star Mississippi 02:51, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
Of course "Marx never finished his own book". Indeed Marx never begun such a book. In Marx notebooks, there are few comments and mostly quotations of Morgan. Engels used the notebooks. He had little material to "continue" "Marx’s analysis". (Though the choice of the quotations gives some indication of what Marx thought on some points.) There is no such thing as "Marx’s analysis" of Morgan or "Marx’s analysis" of primitive societies. Dominique Meeùs ( talk) 19:08, 8 October 2023 (UTC)