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This article talk page was automatically added with {{ WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot ( talk) 14:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Just like Chicago Town Pizza is made in Germany, Lancashire Tea is made in Merseyside. Newton-le-Willows is in Merseyside, period. Let's not have an edit war about it being in Lancashire, traditionally or otherwise. The fact that it is made in Newton-le-Willows has no connection with how Lancashire is used in the title until a source says otherwise. See also WP:PLACE. -- Jza84 | Talk 04:51, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough. However, I feel it's pertinent to the article to attach the cultural heritage of Newton-le-Willows to the product which the company feels best represents the 'county palatine' rather than the current ceremonial county [1]. If not in the way that I wrote, but in another form which best suits everyone. As for the Chicago Town Pizza being made in Germany; it is in no way synonymous with Newton-le-Willows and the lineage attached to 'Lancashire' Tea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by An index of metals ( talk • contribs) 06:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Lancashire Tea promotes the historic county of Lancashire. There are currently different types of county in the UK - Newton-le-Willows is in the ceremonial county of Merseyside and the historic county of Lancashire regardless of your own personal view - the Wikipedia take on counties is ridiculous because it ignores the reality. I've been searching for this so-called consensus on Wikipedia county policy and have only located an argument between a number of people calling for the recognition of the continued existence of the historic counties and a few voices wanting to deny it. There should be recognition that Newton-le-Willows is part of Lancashire, even if it isn't the Lancashire of the County Council. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.151.46 ( talk) 15:42, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
(outdent reply to Darkieboy236) Setting aside the issue of "Burden of Evidence" obligations which do not rest with me: see WP:V#Burden of evidence, which I invited you to review earlier, I offer the following as information: It is not a good idea to base one's actions here on half-remembered parliamentary debates about county boundaries. Indeed, even if the memory was perfectly accurate, it is a memory of statements from MPs who have to say things to pander to various pressure groups deemed influential in their own constituencies on occasion. It is far better to go with the various widely-recognised authoritative sources concerning boundaries and so on here. Such an authoritative source for such matters in Youngs' book (Youngs, F. A. (1991). Guide to the local administrative units of England. (Volume 1: Northern England). London: Royal Historical Society. ISBN 0861931270..)
On the matter of the existence of "Historic Counties" or not, Youngs book does not mention "Historic Counties" at all: the correct form of words in use by him and other expert local historians are: Ancient County (in use from the time that area was shired to 1889, when they were abolished); "Administrative County" (from 1889 to 1974, when they were abolished); and (for Lancashire) "Non-Metropolitan County" (from 1974), with (for Merseyside) "Metropolitan County" from 1974. (pages 676 and 709 of Youngs book.) Merseyside is now used in a ceremonial way.
Now for the current position of Newton-le-Willows, we see that in 1974, when the former Urban District of Newton-le-Willows was abolished (pages 190, 676 of Youngs), it was transferred from the Administrative County of Lancashire to the Metropolitan County of Merseyside (pages 190, 676, and 709 in Youngs.)
From this we can conclude that: (a) There is no official term "Historic County", instead it should be one of the forms listed above; (b) Newton-le-Willows is no longer in the Administrative County of Lancashire, and the Ancient County of Lancashire ceased to exist in 1889 (c) Youngs clearly states it was in Merseyside in 1974, and no one has offered any evidence that a significant boundary change has happened since reassigning its county allocation.
There is no problem with mentioning Newton-le-Willows previous administrative arrangements when it is apt to do so in relation to the name of "Lancashire Tea", but I consider it should not be given undue weight, and should only be used to explain why the name of "Lancashire Tea" was chosen, if indeed it can be verified that the name was chosen on the basis of the old, now abolished, county arrangements. So, the binding of "Lancashire" should primarily be to "Lancashire Tea" rather than "Newton-le-Willows". DDStretch (talk) 13:44, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
(Government statement, The Times, 1st April 1974) "The Local Government Act 1972 did not abolish traditional counties, only administrative ones. Although for local government purposes some of the historic counties have ceased to be administrative areas, they continue to exist for other purposes." (Department of the Environment Sept 1991) Darkieboy236 ( talk) 00:51, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
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This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
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This article talk page was automatically added with {{ WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot ( talk) 14:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Just like Chicago Town Pizza is made in Germany, Lancashire Tea is made in Merseyside. Newton-le-Willows is in Merseyside, period. Let's not have an edit war about it being in Lancashire, traditionally or otherwise. The fact that it is made in Newton-le-Willows has no connection with how Lancashire is used in the title until a source says otherwise. See also WP:PLACE. -- Jza84 | Talk 04:51, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough. However, I feel it's pertinent to the article to attach the cultural heritage of Newton-le-Willows to the product which the company feels best represents the 'county palatine' rather than the current ceremonial county [1]. If not in the way that I wrote, but in another form which best suits everyone. As for the Chicago Town Pizza being made in Germany; it is in no way synonymous with Newton-le-Willows and the lineage attached to 'Lancashire' Tea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by An index of metals ( talk • contribs) 06:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Lancashire Tea promotes the historic county of Lancashire. There are currently different types of county in the UK - Newton-le-Willows is in the ceremonial county of Merseyside and the historic county of Lancashire regardless of your own personal view - the Wikipedia take on counties is ridiculous because it ignores the reality. I've been searching for this so-called consensus on Wikipedia county policy and have only located an argument between a number of people calling for the recognition of the continued existence of the historic counties and a few voices wanting to deny it. There should be recognition that Newton-le-Willows is part of Lancashire, even if it isn't the Lancashire of the County Council. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.151.46 ( talk) 15:42, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
(outdent reply to Darkieboy236) Setting aside the issue of "Burden of Evidence" obligations which do not rest with me: see WP:V#Burden of evidence, which I invited you to review earlier, I offer the following as information: It is not a good idea to base one's actions here on half-remembered parliamentary debates about county boundaries. Indeed, even if the memory was perfectly accurate, it is a memory of statements from MPs who have to say things to pander to various pressure groups deemed influential in their own constituencies on occasion. It is far better to go with the various widely-recognised authoritative sources concerning boundaries and so on here. Such an authoritative source for such matters in Youngs' book (Youngs, F. A. (1991). Guide to the local administrative units of England. (Volume 1: Northern England). London: Royal Historical Society. ISBN 0861931270..)
On the matter of the existence of "Historic Counties" or not, Youngs book does not mention "Historic Counties" at all: the correct form of words in use by him and other expert local historians are: Ancient County (in use from the time that area was shired to 1889, when they were abolished); "Administrative County" (from 1889 to 1974, when they were abolished); and (for Lancashire) "Non-Metropolitan County" (from 1974), with (for Merseyside) "Metropolitan County" from 1974. (pages 676 and 709 of Youngs book.) Merseyside is now used in a ceremonial way.
Now for the current position of Newton-le-Willows, we see that in 1974, when the former Urban District of Newton-le-Willows was abolished (pages 190, 676 of Youngs), it was transferred from the Administrative County of Lancashire to the Metropolitan County of Merseyside (pages 190, 676, and 709 in Youngs.)
From this we can conclude that: (a) There is no official term "Historic County", instead it should be one of the forms listed above; (b) Newton-le-Willows is no longer in the Administrative County of Lancashire, and the Ancient County of Lancashire ceased to exist in 1889 (c) Youngs clearly states it was in Merseyside in 1974, and no one has offered any evidence that a significant boundary change has happened since reassigning its county allocation.
There is no problem with mentioning Newton-le-Willows previous administrative arrangements when it is apt to do so in relation to the name of "Lancashire Tea", but I consider it should not be given undue weight, and should only be used to explain why the name of "Lancashire Tea" was chosen, if indeed it can be verified that the name was chosen on the basis of the old, now abolished, county arrangements. So, the binding of "Lancashire" should primarily be to "Lancashire Tea" rather than "Newton-le-Willows". DDStretch (talk) 13:44, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
(Government statement, The Times, 1st April 1974) "The Local Government Act 1972 did not abolish traditional counties, only administrative ones. Although for local government purposes some of the historic counties have ceased to be administrative areas, they continue to exist for other purposes." (Department of the Environment Sept 1991) Darkieboy236 ( talk) 00:51, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
References
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:06, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
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