Killing of Patrick Lyoya ( final version) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which on 20 October 2022 was archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Title is leading. Suggested changing “Killing of Patrick Lyoya” to “Fatal Shooting of Patrick Lyoya” LeonDias19 ( talk) 17:24, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template. You can kill someone without intent or malice. In this circumstance killing and fatal shooting are six of one, half dozen of another.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk)
17:31, 14 April 2022 (UTC)This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
He was not shot in the back of the head. 24.56.73.226 ( talk) 17:43, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
Please screen the photo at the top of this article. I clicked on the wikipedia article bc I wanted some basic info without being subjected to yet another photo or video of a black person being brutalized. Yet there’s an image right at the top of the article, unhidden. Doesn’t matter if it’s blurred, that is still a clearly recognizable image of a man straddling the body of someone he just killed. 70.133.170.122 ( talk) 00:30, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
Words and images that would be considered offensive, profane, or obscene by typical Wikipedia readers should be used if and only if their omission would cause the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate, and no equally suitable alternatives are available.Considering that there is a full video of the incident embedded in the article (which is far more informative and neutral) and it is optional for readers to view it, I think there is clearly an "equally suitable alternative" - actually a superior alternative in place. As for the concept of "no expectation of respect", would any one of us want to rise from obscurity to international notoriety enshrined forever in a dictionary as the man laying face first in the dirt, belly exposed, and dead? This is the man [1] PHOTO]. Why not show a photo like this? That said, I will yield to whatever the majority decides. Wiki-psyc ( talk) 13:53, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
As of version # |1083115913, this article has discussions of the refugee policies of two presidents, discussions about the eastern Congo, discussions about the reputation of the Grand Rapids police department, quotes/opinions from family, local politicians, pastors, lawyers, and even mention of the crucifixion of Christ and a Kid Rock concert. I would encourage editors to keep this focused and encyclopedic. There is very little known about this incident at this time other than it was a minor traffic stop that was handled badly by all involved, ended with a man being shot to death during a protracted physical scuffle, and is under investigation. It is clearly a tragedy and a "misuse of deadly force" investigation is underway. Wiki-psyc ( talk) 13:21, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
As the march approached Van Andel Arena, authorities blocked the area as there was a Kid Rock concert underway.tangential? How is it tangential that we're in the Easter season? His family fleeing DRC? The history of the Grand Rapids police department? All relevant. Please self-revert the tag or I'll take it off. – Muboshgu ( talk) 19:00, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
there was a Kid Rock concert underwayto
there was a concert underway. As for the Easter content, are you thinking that preacher's quote is too long? It could be trimmed. Fleeing the DRC is background that is clearly relevant given the language barrier issue the article raises. I agree that their level of economic prosperity among African Americans is a bit beyond the scope. Anything else? – Muboshgu ( talk) 20:16, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
Police using excessive force on Black people is definitely a systemic issue throughout the U.S.This is a hotly debated issue. All reputable resources (DOJ, Statitica, Washington, New York Times) show that twice and many whites are killed by police each year as blacks. And reputable sources say that people misquote these statistics and Wikipedia is called out specifically by Reuters reuters.com Reuters reports "FBI data does not support the numbers put forth in this claim on interracial crime and police killings." And yes, there is also data that says, on a per capita basis, this is twice as many blacks killed by police as whites. And yes, the non-police per capita murder rate for blacks is four times that of whites of which 97% is perpetrated by a black person. FBI. If you look at Michigan, its worse Michigan.
The background section was placed back. Controversy and criticism sections are to be avoided, especially when the controversy isn't related specifically to the incident (investigation procedures, controversial effects, trial issues, etc). MLive discusses the "past" multiple times in their article while The New York Times writes about "longstanding tensions" in their article, making this much more appropriate for a background section. The response of the city and GRPD was also expanded in the section to provide a more NPOV.-- WMrapids ( talk) 20:44, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
Sections or article titles should generally not include the word "controversies". Instead, titles should simply name the event, for example, "2009 boycott" or "Hunting incident".Wiki-psyc ( talk) 22:04, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
The section in the article regarding whether or not Lyoya was armed is confusing. It says that the Grand Rapids police chief stated that no weapons were recovered from Lyoya, but a few sentences before, it says that Lyoya had gained control of the taser. Whether or not he was armed with the taser should be determined, and the police chief’s comments should be clarified as factual or false accordingly. Azahariev ( talk) 17:57, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
I assumed while reading background that it would elaborate on the shooting not a lay a summary of unrelated incidents. Seems like a narrative is being built rather than objective reality being presented 2600:6C5E:5D7F:F073:848B:B426:A2D:5BD7 ( talk) 11:28, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Suddenly the tense changes to present, presumably because it is describing what is seen on video—but the effect is somewhat jarring and confusing. Would it not be possible to have the entire section in the past tense, given that the videos are showing what happened, not what is happening? Thanks for any input! ElleTheBelle 23:50, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
I respect your passion for this article, but you are not the gatekeeper or editor-in-chief. I have watched you control 80-85% of the text in this article since its inception and you have done this by repeatedly reverting others edits. Other editors have expressed concerns. Please allow others to contribute. Wiki-psyc ( talk) 14:34, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
The summary of the wiki account is not accurate. The officer did not shoot his taser. Lyoya grabbed the taser. You can here the officer order Lyoya to let go of the Taser. Lyoya tried to shot the policeman with the taser, resulting in a treat to the officer and the officer life. The taser ended up under Lyoya’s body in his possession. Please keep in mind, a Police officer hit with a taser would become incapacitated leaving his sidearm exposed to the attacker to grab and shoot the officer, and allowing the attacker to run and use the weapon on others in the community. 2601:404:D280:3E70:D86B:72C:2B5:4100 ( talk) 21:19, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Patrick Lyoya was not a 26-year-old refugee from the Congo. He's been in this country since he was 5. 73.161.217.1 ( talk) 22:21, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
This discussion has been disrupted by
block evasion,
ban evasion, or
sockpuppetry from the following user:
Comments from this user should be excluded from assessments of consensus. |
This has been brought up by other users but apparently it needs to be discussed again - this article has way too much tangential background information. I understand the desire to provide context, the geopolitics of historical African conflicts does not not need to be discussed in this article:
Patrick Lyoya was a refugee from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, a nation experiencing unrest fueled by repeated foreign intervention since the overthrow and execution of Patrice Lumumba, which was organized by Belgium and the Central Intelligence Agency, that led to the Congo Crisis and subsequent conflicts. According to Lyoya's family, they fled eastern Congo after experiencing years of violence in the Kivu conflict. Lyoya's parents sold beer and clothing for money; his mother was once raped by rebels on her way home. The Lyoya family moved to Malawi in 2003 and Lyoya spent half of his life living in a bamboo house at a refugee camp. In 2014, the family received asylum in the United States, with Tanzanian scholar Godfrey Mwakikagile writing "Ironically, Lyoya and his family fled the region and sought refuge in the very same country that has played a major role in the disruption ... in eastern Congo".
This is excessive bordering on absurd. This is an article about a US police shooting.
47.219.237.179 (
talk)
13:45, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Killing of Patrick Lyoya ( final version) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which on 20 October 2022 was archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Title is leading. Suggested changing “Killing of Patrick Lyoya” to “Fatal Shooting of Patrick Lyoya” LeonDias19 ( talk) 17:24, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template. You can kill someone without intent or malice. In this circumstance killing and fatal shooting are six of one, half dozen of another.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk)
17:31, 14 April 2022 (UTC)This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
He was not shot in the back of the head. 24.56.73.226 ( talk) 17:43, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
Please screen the photo at the top of this article. I clicked on the wikipedia article bc I wanted some basic info without being subjected to yet another photo or video of a black person being brutalized. Yet there’s an image right at the top of the article, unhidden. Doesn’t matter if it’s blurred, that is still a clearly recognizable image of a man straddling the body of someone he just killed. 70.133.170.122 ( talk) 00:30, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
Words and images that would be considered offensive, profane, or obscene by typical Wikipedia readers should be used if and only if their omission would cause the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate, and no equally suitable alternatives are available.Considering that there is a full video of the incident embedded in the article (which is far more informative and neutral) and it is optional for readers to view it, I think there is clearly an "equally suitable alternative" - actually a superior alternative in place. As for the concept of "no expectation of respect", would any one of us want to rise from obscurity to international notoriety enshrined forever in a dictionary as the man laying face first in the dirt, belly exposed, and dead? This is the man [1] PHOTO]. Why not show a photo like this? That said, I will yield to whatever the majority decides. Wiki-psyc ( talk) 13:53, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
As of version # |1083115913, this article has discussions of the refugee policies of two presidents, discussions about the eastern Congo, discussions about the reputation of the Grand Rapids police department, quotes/opinions from family, local politicians, pastors, lawyers, and even mention of the crucifixion of Christ and a Kid Rock concert. I would encourage editors to keep this focused and encyclopedic. There is very little known about this incident at this time other than it was a minor traffic stop that was handled badly by all involved, ended with a man being shot to death during a protracted physical scuffle, and is under investigation. It is clearly a tragedy and a "misuse of deadly force" investigation is underway. Wiki-psyc ( talk) 13:21, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
As the march approached Van Andel Arena, authorities blocked the area as there was a Kid Rock concert underway.tangential? How is it tangential that we're in the Easter season? His family fleeing DRC? The history of the Grand Rapids police department? All relevant. Please self-revert the tag or I'll take it off. – Muboshgu ( talk) 19:00, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
there was a Kid Rock concert underwayto
there was a concert underway. As for the Easter content, are you thinking that preacher's quote is too long? It could be trimmed. Fleeing the DRC is background that is clearly relevant given the language barrier issue the article raises. I agree that their level of economic prosperity among African Americans is a bit beyond the scope. Anything else? – Muboshgu ( talk) 20:16, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
Police using excessive force on Black people is definitely a systemic issue throughout the U.S.This is a hotly debated issue. All reputable resources (DOJ, Statitica, Washington, New York Times) show that twice and many whites are killed by police each year as blacks. And reputable sources say that people misquote these statistics and Wikipedia is called out specifically by Reuters reuters.com Reuters reports "FBI data does not support the numbers put forth in this claim on interracial crime and police killings." And yes, there is also data that says, on a per capita basis, this is twice as many blacks killed by police as whites. And yes, the non-police per capita murder rate for blacks is four times that of whites of which 97% is perpetrated by a black person. FBI. If you look at Michigan, its worse Michigan.
The background section was placed back. Controversy and criticism sections are to be avoided, especially when the controversy isn't related specifically to the incident (investigation procedures, controversial effects, trial issues, etc). MLive discusses the "past" multiple times in their article while The New York Times writes about "longstanding tensions" in their article, making this much more appropriate for a background section. The response of the city and GRPD was also expanded in the section to provide a more NPOV.-- WMrapids ( talk) 20:44, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
Sections or article titles should generally not include the word "controversies". Instead, titles should simply name the event, for example, "2009 boycott" or "Hunting incident".Wiki-psyc ( talk) 22:04, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
The section in the article regarding whether or not Lyoya was armed is confusing. It says that the Grand Rapids police chief stated that no weapons were recovered from Lyoya, but a few sentences before, it says that Lyoya had gained control of the taser. Whether or not he was armed with the taser should be determined, and the police chief’s comments should be clarified as factual or false accordingly. Azahariev ( talk) 17:57, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
I assumed while reading background that it would elaborate on the shooting not a lay a summary of unrelated incidents. Seems like a narrative is being built rather than objective reality being presented 2600:6C5E:5D7F:F073:848B:B426:A2D:5BD7 ( talk) 11:28, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Suddenly the tense changes to present, presumably because it is describing what is seen on video—but the effect is somewhat jarring and confusing. Would it not be possible to have the entire section in the past tense, given that the videos are showing what happened, not what is happening? Thanks for any input! ElleTheBelle 23:50, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
I respect your passion for this article, but you are not the gatekeeper or editor-in-chief. I have watched you control 80-85% of the text in this article since its inception and you have done this by repeatedly reverting others edits. Other editors have expressed concerns. Please allow others to contribute. Wiki-psyc ( talk) 14:34, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
The summary of the wiki account is not accurate. The officer did not shoot his taser. Lyoya grabbed the taser. You can here the officer order Lyoya to let go of the Taser. Lyoya tried to shot the policeman with the taser, resulting in a treat to the officer and the officer life. The taser ended up under Lyoya’s body in his possession. Please keep in mind, a Police officer hit with a taser would become incapacitated leaving his sidearm exposed to the attacker to grab and shoot the officer, and allowing the attacker to run and use the weapon on others in the community. 2601:404:D280:3E70:D86B:72C:2B5:4100 ( talk) 21:19, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Patrick Lyoya was not a 26-year-old refugee from the Congo. He's been in this country since he was 5. 73.161.217.1 ( talk) 22:21, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
This discussion has been disrupted by
block evasion,
ban evasion, or
sockpuppetry from the following user:
Comments from this user should be excluded from assessments of consensus. |
This has been brought up by other users but apparently it needs to be discussed again - this article has way too much tangential background information. I understand the desire to provide context, the geopolitics of historical African conflicts does not not need to be discussed in this article:
Patrick Lyoya was a refugee from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, a nation experiencing unrest fueled by repeated foreign intervention since the overthrow and execution of Patrice Lumumba, which was organized by Belgium and the Central Intelligence Agency, that led to the Congo Crisis and subsequent conflicts. According to Lyoya's family, they fled eastern Congo after experiencing years of violence in the Kivu conflict. Lyoya's parents sold beer and clothing for money; his mother was once raped by rebels on her way home. The Lyoya family moved to Malawi in 2003 and Lyoya spent half of his life living in a bamboo house at a refugee camp. In 2014, the family received asylum in the United States, with Tanzanian scholar Godfrey Mwakikagile writing "Ironically, Lyoya and his family fled the region and sought refuge in the very same country that has played a major role in the disruption ... in eastern Congo".
This is excessive bordering on absurd. This is an article about a US police shooting.
47.219.237.179 (
talk)
13:45, 16 November 2023 (UTC)