This article was nominated for deletion on 4 December 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article was nominated for deletion on 16 October 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dlajoie. Peer reviewers: Dezhadial, Deneaum.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:40, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Dear fellow editors,
This incident was a one shot action but is very notable because of the effect on the local area and the closeness in time with the government shutdown and the discussion on mental health in the USA. So, Keep. Geraldshields11 ( talk) 02:13, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
"Day after tomorrow, nobody will talk about this any more."
That would be Ocober 6, 2013.
Well, today is December 8, 2014, and I heard it discussed on a radio show that aired 2 days ago. --- Dagme ( talk) 05:34, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Absolute recentism-- 93.137.170.112 ( talk) 18:05, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Since the only people shooting were the police, I suggest that the article's title be changes to something more generic, such as US Capitol ramming incident (2013). Please discuss. Geraldshields11 ( talk) 02:37, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
From the sources I've read it appears the instigator here didn't do any shooting, it was only various law officials who used guns. Can't we come up with a better article title to reflect that. 173.200.153.17 ( talk) 21:34, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Someone was shot so it is a shooting; it would not be appropriate to call it a "shootout" since that would imply two parties (Carey and police) exchanging fire. Intitial reports did include stuff like: "Authorities said the Secret Service chased her and she exchanged gunshots with police near the Capitol." Casual news listeners probably still believe she was armed when killed. I think we need an article about the "Rush" phenomenon where in the "rush to be first" stories go to air w/o vetting the facts first.
But, there only needs to be one shooter (or one side firing) to make a shooting incident. -- Naaman Brown ( talk) 10:24, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
"Shooting" is when somebody shoots. When somebody is murdered, then it's a murder. Ofaqim ( talk) 10:36, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
I think it wold be accurate and not controversial to call it "Marian Carey Incident". The article has a bizarre and misleading sentence: "Both U.S. Capitol Police and Washington DC Metropolitan Police revealed that they believed that the shooting was an isolated incident, and not terrorism." I am going to change that sentence. --- Dagme ( talk) 05:39, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
It is a bit hard to find this article because of the title "United States Capitol shooting incident (2013)". Most people think of it, understandably, as a White House-related episode and thus are searching vainly here. I had to go find it in the In the news archive where, tellingly, the blurb reads: "A woman is fatally shot by police after striking a barrier at a White House security checkpoint followed by a car chase." SteveStrummer ( talk) 04:43, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
There was not a shooting incident at the White House. What made it newsworthy was the shooting of an unarmed woman with a child in her car at or near the US Capitol by the Capitol Police.-- Naaman Brown ( talk) 15:35, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
Since there was no illegal shooting, how about " Shooting of Miriam Carey" or " Death of Miriam Carey" with redirects from other White House related titles to one of those two selections? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 18:56, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
It is interesting that the color of the car is mentioned twice in the article, yet the race of the victim is not; both items should be equally important. If victim were white or hispanic (think George Zimmerman) would race have been mentioned? 69.7.162.210 ( talk) 16:43, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
There are several facts in the article that are not material to the story: She was a dental hygienist, her car was black etc… Selectively choosing which facts are material so as to feign colorblindness actually makes the article less descriptive; and possibly leaves the reader with an image of the story that is different than what actually occurred. 69.7.162.210 ( talk) 16:05, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
In addition to the point you make--that several other descriptives are used--race is an important factor in this case, considering the history of ordered violence against members of the black community in America. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.233.195.2 ( talk) 13:45, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
Just noting here that I've removed the daughter's name per WP:AVOIDVICTIM. This kid shouldn't have to grow up with her mother's actions hanging over her head. — PinkAmpers & (Je vous invite à me parler) 17:43, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
This article fails the Wikipedia is not a newspaper policy in that this is just a news story, the article fails to demonstrate what if any lasting effect it has, nor how the event had any significant impact over a wide region, domain, or widespread societal group, there is a absence of any significant or in-depth coverage is in that all the sources are routine primary news reports and it is therefore more suited to WikiNews than the Encyclopaedia. So unless anyone can come up with a suitable merge target, I will nominate this for deletion. LGA talk edits 19:55, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
FYI, the only mention of Miriam Carey has been removed from List of incidents of political violence in Washington, D.C. Does this mean that the article should be listed at List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, 2013? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 22:32, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
I am starting this section due to the notability tag that has been placed on the article, as it just went through an AfD. At first glance, there seem to be more than a dozen reliable sources in the article. I am interested in knowing which parts of the article are not properly sourced, or which sources are not reliable before removing the tag. Thoughts? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 18:29, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
The Search and Seizure warrant tells a somewhat different account of the story: http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/803160/miriam-carey-search-warrant-vehicle.pdf
A police report from an incident shortly before this may shed light on her mental state: http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/809636-miriam-carey-police-reports.html
A press release from the Justice Department summarizing their investigation:
http://www.justice.gov/usao/dc/news/2014/jul/14-161.html
I will probably work these into the article if nobody else does. Jonathan.robie ( talk)
It should be made clearer if people believe the incident was an accident or a purposeful breach. Dezhadial ( talk) 15:15, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
I find it fascinating that Eric Prinz of Blackwater infamy, in his 2017 Oxford Union talk, felt this story met notability. He used it as an example of contrast between his mercenaries making mistakes and the government police making mistakes, claiming the Nissar Square incident was given more scrutiny than the U.S. Capitol shooting incident. (I hate the word 'incident') 71.11.254.3 ( talk) 03:29, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Shooting of Miriam Carey ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 03:47, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
2013 United States Capitol shooting → 2013 United States Capitol vehicular incident – The "shooting" part of the title only pertains to the officer-involved shooting that ended this incident. It doesn't imply any sort of criminal shooting targeting the United States Capitol or a specific individual(s) like 1954 United States Capitol shooting or 1998 United States Capitol shooting. The catalyst for this entire topic, and the true reason that this whole event was of any concern in the first place, was the motorist driving erratically. Plus, a number of the WP:RS sources provided for this very article mention the car chase over the shooting. As a result, I think it would be inaccurate to include "shooting" in the title as if that was the primary cause of concern here. However, if anyone is unsatisfied with the suggested new title, I am open to other suggestions. Love of Corey ( talk) 05:30, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on 4 December 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article was nominated for deletion on 16 October 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dlajoie. Peer reviewers: Dezhadial, Deneaum.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:40, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Dear fellow editors,
This incident was a one shot action but is very notable because of the effect on the local area and the closeness in time with the government shutdown and the discussion on mental health in the USA. So, Keep. Geraldshields11 ( talk) 02:13, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
"Day after tomorrow, nobody will talk about this any more."
That would be Ocober 6, 2013.
Well, today is December 8, 2014, and I heard it discussed on a radio show that aired 2 days ago. --- Dagme ( talk) 05:34, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Absolute recentism-- 93.137.170.112 ( talk) 18:05, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Since the only people shooting were the police, I suggest that the article's title be changes to something more generic, such as US Capitol ramming incident (2013). Please discuss. Geraldshields11 ( talk) 02:37, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
From the sources I've read it appears the instigator here didn't do any shooting, it was only various law officials who used guns. Can't we come up with a better article title to reflect that. 173.200.153.17 ( talk) 21:34, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Someone was shot so it is a shooting; it would not be appropriate to call it a "shootout" since that would imply two parties (Carey and police) exchanging fire. Intitial reports did include stuff like: "Authorities said the Secret Service chased her and she exchanged gunshots with police near the Capitol." Casual news listeners probably still believe she was armed when killed. I think we need an article about the "Rush" phenomenon where in the "rush to be first" stories go to air w/o vetting the facts first.
But, there only needs to be one shooter (or one side firing) to make a shooting incident. -- Naaman Brown ( talk) 10:24, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
"Shooting" is when somebody shoots. When somebody is murdered, then it's a murder. Ofaqim ( talk) 10:36, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
I think it wold be accurate and not controversial to call it "Marian Carey Incident". The article has a bizarre and misleading sentence: "Both U.S. Capitol Police and Washington DC Metropolitan Police revealed that they believed that the shooting was an isolated incident, and not terrorism." I am going to change that sentence. --- Dagme ( talk) 05:39, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
It is a bit hard to find this article because of the title "United States Capitol shooting incident (2013)". Most people think of it, understandably, as a White House-related episode and thus are searching vainly here. I had to go find it in the In the news archive where, tellingly, the blurb reads: "A woman is fatally shot by police after striking a barrier at a White House security checkpoint followed by a car chase." SteveStrummer ( talk) 04:43, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
There was not a shooting incident at the White House. What made it newsworthy was the shooting of an unarmed woman with a child in her car at or near the US Capitol by the Capitol Police.-- Naaman Brown ( talk) 15:35, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
Since there was no illegal shooting, how about " Shooting of Miriam Carey" or " Death of Miriam Carey" with redirects from other White House related titles to one of those two selections? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 18:56, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
It is interesting that the color of the car is mentioned twice in the article, yet the race of the victim is not; both items should be equally important. If victim were white or hispanic (think George Zimmerman) would race have been mentioned? 69.7.162.210 ( talk) 16:43, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
There are several facts in the article that are not material to the story: She was a dental hygienist, her car was black etc… Selectively choosing which facts are material so as to feign colorblindness actually makes the article less descriptive; and possibly leaves the reader with an image of the story that is different than what actually occurred. 69.7.162.210 ( talk) 16:05, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
In addition to the point you make--that several other descriptives are used--race is an important factor in this case, considering the history of ordered violence against members of the black community in America. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.233.195.2 ( talk) 13:45, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
Just noting here that I've removed the daughter's name per WP:AVOIDVICTIM. This kid shouldn't have to grow up with her mother's actions hanging over her head. — PinkAmpers & (Je vous invite à me parler) 17:43, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
This article fails the Wikipedia is not a newspaper policy in that this is just a news story, the article fails to demonstrate what if any lasting effect it has, nor how the event had any significant impact over a wide region, domain, or widespread societal group, there is a absence of any significant or in-depth coverage is in that all the sources are routine primary news reports and it is therefore more suited to WikiNews than the Encyclopaedia. So unless anyone can come up with a suitable merge target, I will nominate this for deletion. LGA talk edits 19:55, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
FYI, the only mention of Miriam Carey has been removed from List of incidents of political violence in Washington, D.C. Does this mean that the article should be listed at List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, 2013? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 22:32, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
I am starting this section due to the notability tag that has been placed on the article, as it just went through an AfD. At first glance, there seem to be more than a dozen reliable sources in the article. I am interested in knowing which parts of the article are not properly sourced, or which sources are not reliable before removing the tag. Thoughts? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 18:29, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
The Search and Seizure warrant tells a somewhat different account of the story: http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/803160/miriam-carey-search-warrant-vehicle.pdf
A police report from an incident shortly before this may shed light on her mental state: http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/809636-miriam-carey-police-reports.html
A press release from the Justice Department summarizing their investigation:
http://www.justice.gov/usao/dc/news/2014/jul/14-161.html
I will probably work these into the article if nobody else does. Jonathan.robie ( talk)
It should be made clearer if people believe the incident was an accident or a purposeful breach. Dezhadial ( talk) 15:15, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
I find it fascinating that Eric Prinz of Blackwater infamy, in his 2017 Oxford Union talk, felt this story met notability. He used it as an example of contrast between his mercenaries making mistakes and the government police making mistakes, claiming the Nissar Square incident was given more scrutiny than the U.S. Capitol shooting incident. (I hate the word 'incident') 71.11.254.3 ( talk) 03:29, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Shooting of Miriam Carey ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 03:47, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
2013 United States Capitol shooting → 2013 United States Capitol vehicular incident – The "shooting" part of the title only pertains to the officer-involved shooting that ended this incident. It doesn't imply any sort of criminal shooting targeting the United States Capitol or a specific individual(s) like 1954 United States Capitol shooting or 1998 United States Capitol shooting. The catalyst for this entire topic, and the true reason that this whole event was of any concern in the first place, was the motorist driving erratically. Plus, a number of the WP:RS sources provided for this very article mention the car chase over the shooting. As a result, I think it would be inaccurate to include "shooting" in the title as if that was the primary cause of concern here. However, if anyone is unsatisfied with the suggested new title, I am open to other suggestions. Love of Corey ( talk) 05:30, 12 April 2021 (UTC)