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Someone made serious vandal-edits to this page. I have reverted those and returned the text to it's original, but please, keep aneye on it. Esspecialy on the History, the vandal edits might be small edits which dont look insulting but on purpous misswrite the facts of his biography. 132.66.160.171 05:46, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how to create a re-direct, but could someone do for this article for Malewicz and Kazimierz Malewicz, as right now they just lead to the search page. Podagrycznik ( talk) 18:55, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to add a "See also" link to IRWIN for their 1992 homage Black Square on Red Square? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:02, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
Please do not add trivial stuff to Malevich's quotation, whoever it is since 16 February 2006. paula clare 15:22, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
link-IRWIN added paula clare 20:36, 19 March 2006 (UTC) I think the picture for "White on White" is upside down. Should this page include information about the heirs suit that they won against the Stedelijk museum? It was the basis for that recent sale at Sothebys ($60m)
The image for "White on White" is indeed upside down. Is it possible to edit this? Heterodiamond ( talk) 21:05, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Malevich: was he ever sent to the gulag? My professor said this recently but I can't find any independent verification of this.
When was Black Square actually painted? The article contradicts itself, saying both 1915 and 1913, but this lapse is fair given that he resigned his work. 211.28.246.119 ( talk) 05:42, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
The first version was painted in 1915 and is exposed at Tretyakov gallery. So the picture in the article is totally wrong, check out the article in Russian: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D1%91%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.66.152.3 ( talk) 15:20, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
I believe that the recent edits by UAKasper violate the WP:DUE and WP:POV rules by pushing an insignificant Ukrainian POV in the lede calling Malevich a Ukrainian painter and using Ukrainian sources such as an article in the Ukrainian weekly Den′ and an article authored by a Ukrainian scholar Myroslava M. Mudrak in The Ukrainian Weekly. Independent reliable authoritative sources free from bias such such Britannica, The Columbia Encyclopedia and many others from all over the world identify him as a Russian painter. So I believe we should write what the latter sources, which are a vast majority, say, rather than to use a narrow bias from the press in the lede. -- glossologist ( talk) 16:44, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Obviously, some sort of further explanation is needed, but (as far as I can see) there is none. -- FoxyOrange ( talk) 15:55, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
It looks like we have a new edit war over whether Malevich was a Belarusian or a Pole. The conflict is more difficult due to that the notion of a Belarusian ethnicity separate from Polish or Russian was not very popular at the time of Malevich birth. Roman-Catholic people born in modern Belarus would be considered Poles and Eastern Orthodox people would be considered Russian or perhaps Lithuanians. At the end of Malevich's life the notion of Belarusian ethnicity was very strong and at the time of the Great Terror might mean the difference between life and death (ethnic Poles were one of the main targets of the Great Terror).
Now we have a very solid source stating that Malevich's parents were Poles. We do not know whether the source meant it in the modern sense or in the 19th century sense (that would include ethnic Belarusians and Ukrainians). We cannot alter the words source and change Poles into Belarusians - it will be an original research. On the other hand we have also a pretty reliable source stating that Malevich himself identified as a Belarusian. We do not know whether it meant that Malevich's parents self-identified themselves as Belarusian, whether he was just felt inclination to Belarusian people or whether he secretly consider himself as a Pole but stated otherwise to hide from persecutions. We do not know. We still cannot ignore a notable source about his self-identification. Lets incorporate the info from both sources as much as possible. Any additional information will be appreciated.
Now my proposal:
Alex Bakharev ( talk) 03:29, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
Dear Ewulp, you appear to completely luck the necessary knowledge of the region and sensibility for the issues of national identity in multinational empires. Please, before you try to intervene and correct anything written on the issue, read "The Reconstruction of Nations" by Timothy Snyder, it should be a good introduction for you. You may also read a major book of your choice from Nationalism Studies (Hobsbawm, Brubaker, Anthony D. Smith etc.). Than procede to the books on Ethnic history and problems of identity. You may also find useful to improve general methodological preparation (such as learn to distinguish between primary and secondary sources) and learn the languages of the region (Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Russian - I know all of them) in order to be able to read the primary sources. Kiryl, PhD in Cultural History — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.31.226.175 ( talk) 11:15, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
I was trying to validate Belarusian selfidentification of Malevich but could not find any even marginally reliable sources by web/book searches (and searches in my home library). We certainly need to validate the sources cited. I am currently reside in Australia and it is difficult for me to access Родословие и предки К. С. Малевича // Малевич о себе. Современники о Малевиче. Авторы-составители И. А. Вакар, Т. Н. Михиенко. Т. 1. Москва, 2004. С. 372—385; and other book sources printed in Moscow and Belarus. Still I am a native Russian speaker and I guess I could validate the source and translate it into English. There are also plenty of Russian and Belarusian speaking wikipedians to help us with translation.
Whoever have access to book sources used, please scan them and send to abakharev@gmail.com (that is me) or put it somewhere on the web and give us the link. Web sources may also be useful. If the sources will not be validated in a week I think we should remove the info. Meanwhile I removed word mistakenly - no sources for that.
BTW what is wrong with Polish and Russian been Malevich's native languages? The info is sources and was not challenged, I am to restore ir Alex Bakharev ( talk) 23:43, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
This article seems to avoid mentioning that he has been often known in English under the spelling "Casimir"... AnonMoos ( talk) 17:30, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
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I think it used to be there. It seems better to me than the photograph, so I moved that to his early life. ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥ ♥ Talk♥ 01:48, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
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Malevich was a Ukrainian artist born and raised in Ukraine in a Polish-Ukrainian family. source: https://m.day.kyiv.ua/en/article/time-out/kazimir-malevich-ukrainian-roots-his-avant-garde-art 31.43.249.61 ( talk) 19:15, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
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ScottishFinnishRadish (
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19:26, 14 April 2022 (UTC)To User:Down on the corner: can you clarify why you removed the comments regarding powerty and prosecution? The comments you removed appear factually correct. Gene s 11:00, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to add a "See also" linking to IRWIN for their 1992 homage Black Square on Red Square? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:02, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, but do you guys know that "Russian Empire" and "Soviet Union" is not a nationality, right? This is citizenship. And the most strange for me was to see that "he was russian" and his native languages were "polish and russian". And no ukrainian. Really? Was born in Kyiv in 1878, all early live lived in ukrainian villages and ukrainian wasn't native language, but russian was? Is there some sources of this (again no offence, but this is very strange)?
For my points here's one of his autobiographic notes (yeah, written in ukrainian, strange isn't), where he descibes himself as ukrainian:
original: “…Це був Лев Квачевський. Він був студентом пейзажного класу Академії мистецтв у Петербурзі. День у день ходили ми з ним на етюди влітку, навесні і зимою, верстов по тридцять за день. Цілу дорогу сперечалися. Припиняли суперечку тільки тоді, коли сідали полуднювати. Згадували Україну. Він та я були українці.”
translation: "... This was Lev Kvachevsky. He was student of landscape class of Petersbug's arts academy. From day to day we walked with him to etudes in summer, spring and winter, for about 30 kilometers a day. Whole road we argued. We stopped arguing only when were going for dinner. Remembered Ukraine. He and me were ukrainians".
And Ukrainian is real nationality, not citizenship like "Russian Empire" or "Soviet Union", which is completely stupid. So, will this be fixed somehow? Thx. Sandric ( talk) 00:24, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
Kiev was within the Russian Empire in 1879. Although artcyclopedia calls him Ukrainian, Malevich is Russian according to Oxford Art Online, britannica.com, Getty Union List of Artist Names, MoMA website and publications, Guggenheim website, Art Institute of Chicago website, Penguin Concise Dictionary of Art History, and Dictionary of 20th Century Art. Ewulp ( talk) 04:14, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
People, I'm new to wiki so pardon if i'm not doing it in the right way. The following
Is plain wrong. Both spelling and transcription are Russian not Ukrainian. It is spelled and pronounced completely different in Ukrainian. I changed it to Russian a few times but someone is reverting the change. Therefore I'm doing it once again and asking an ethnical Ukrainian to add Ukrainain spelling to the entry if it is needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.188.236.136 ( talk) 23:28, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
See here: https://www.lawfareblog.com/war-over-ukraine-wikipedia. 73.239.233.137 ( talk) 14:50, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
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Malevich is a Ukrainian artist, born in Kyiv and has a Ukrainian surname 46.119.118.107 ( talk) 14:18, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
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ScottishFinnishRadish (
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16:05, 15 August 2022 (UTC)fix it 91.142.160.69 ( talk) 13:19, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
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Malevich was an Ukrainian artist, not a Russian artist. Please change "Russian" to "Ukrainian". Stop the cultural erasure of Ukrainian heritage by assigning them to Russia. 213.124.107.170 ( talk) 17:37, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
I see all this topics about changing of very important parts of Kazimirs biography, but although i see, that some stupid bastards just continue to have pro russian opinion, and I'm sure, that they don't even saw even one of those. They just continue this "not changing" politics. 156.17.239.162 ( talk) 10:30, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Malevich was never Russian. 2A00:23C4:5B81:A701:C905:B875:E840:BFF6 ( talk) 07:07, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
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"Malevich would later write a series of articles in Ukrainian about art, and identified as Ukrainian." And, he was Polish by ethnc background - yet in the very first sentence of the article he is introduced as a contributor to *Russian* avantguard. How does that makes sense? If you must attribute him to some national type of avant-garde, say it was Ukrainian - or just say avant-garde. In the end of 2022, this blunder is more noticeable than ever. 108.162.130.195 ( talk) 23:23, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
Based on the information given in the Wiki article and discussion on the editing pages, the changes to be made are to remove "Russian" from: Kazimir Severinovich Malevich[nb 1] (23 February [O.S. 11 February] 1879[1] – 15 May 1935) was a Russian avant-garde artist and art theorist to Kazimir Severinovich Malevich[nb 1] (23 February [O.S. 11 February] 1879[1] – 15 May 1935) was an avant-garde artist and art theorist
RealAspects ( talk) 06:51, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
{{
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template. Russian avant-garde is the name of the art movement, based on the fact it was contained within the Russian Empire. It is mentioned later in the same paragraph that some consider him a part of the separate Ukrainian avant-garde movement. There are edits changing this back-and-forth, hence it is not an uncontroversial change.
GiovanniSidwell (
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17:59, 6 March 2023 (UTC)![]() | This
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Malevich was an Ukrainan artist. Not Russian. 84.212.196.139 ( talk) 08:10, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
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Firstly Kyiv, not Kiev.
Secondly not "russian artist", but "Ukrainian". Kazimir Malevich is a Ukrainian artist of polish origin. He identified himself as Ukrainian, all his work is based on reflection on Ukrainian culture and cannot be considered in isolation from it.
To call him a russian is imperialism, it's contradicts his personal self-image and erases all his art.
Here's what a researcher of his art says about it, and here's how museums around the world started decolonization process of Malevich.
http://en.uartlib.org/exclusive/malevich-ta-ukrayina/
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/6481 79.140.122.107 ( talk) 20:55, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
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Eejit43 (
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01:23, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
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Change "Russian avant-garde" to "Polish-Ukrainian avant-garde" as he was ethically Polish and according to source [24]
he identified as Ukrainian. Petrchpetr ( talk) 16:57, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
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13:31, 24 January 2023 (UTC)![]() | This
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Hello,
Change 'Born in Kiev' to Born in Kyiv. Could 'Russian' also be removed from the first line as he was born in Kyiv. Suggest he is just referred to as 'an avant-garde artist' as he was born in Kyiv.
Thanks, Lucy Lucyjnoakes ( talk) 16:31, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
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ScottishFinnishRadish (
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17:43, 9 February 2023 (UTC)![]() | This
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Change Russian artist to Ukrainian artist 2A02:1811:1C7E:C100:F0DC:9252:EFD2:7CCB ( talk) 23:15, 10 February 2023 (UTC) https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2022/05/18/malevich-is-not-russian-activist-group-takes-to-instagram-to-demand-that-ukrainian-heritage-is-recognised A clarification article why Malevich is Ukrainian
Not done for now: please establish a
consensus for this alteration
before using the
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PianoDan (
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17:11, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
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Change : Nationality Russian Empire → Soviet Union to Citizenship Russian Empire → Soviet Union
Add : Nationality Ukrainian, Polish (which corresponds to the references given in the text [21-24]) Thrynova ( talk) 17:47, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
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M.Bitton (
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14:35, 23 February 2023 (UTC)Speaking about Malevich as Russian is inappropriate. He was born in Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine, and his ethnicity is polish if I am not mistaken. So I would rather speak of him based on his polish ethnical roots rather than russian. You don’t say that Kafka is Austrian novelist because he died in Klosterneuburg. Sergesakhno ( talk) 03:14, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
He is in fact described as Ukrainian in a significant number of sources. And speaking Russian does not make him an ethnic Russian (ask Zalensky). Volunteer Marek 18:14, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
Honestly, I think the underlying problem is with the term Russian avant-garde and the inclusion of all sorts of not-really-Russian people under this heading. This itself is an outdated reflection of both Western orientalism which sees all non-Balkan Slavs as "some variety of Russian" (similar to how Western racists perceive all "Asian" people to mean "Chinese") and 19th century Russian chauvinism and nationalism ("all Slavic rivers flowing into the Russian sea" and all that). So that account that got blocked was not entirely wrong and I see where they're coming from. The issue for us as an encyclopedia is that sources do indeed speak of a "Russian avant-garde" and we follow sources, even if they're outdated. But... this is indeed an outdated, "colonizer" term. Almost all of the "Russian"-avant-garde were Ukrainian or Jewish or... French. Volunteer Marek 21:02, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
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Describing Malevich as "a Russian avant-garde artist and art theorist", stating his "Nationality" as "Russian" and ignoring the Kyiv Art School as his first place of education supports claims made by Russian critics, who describe all art created in the post-Soviet countries as Russian. https://uacrisis.org/en/53524-malevych-2
According to the French critic Jean-Claude Marcadé, the only reason why Malevich is called a “Russian avant-garde” artist is because "no Russian art critics accepts this approach [of Ukrainian avant-garde being self-sufficient phenomenon]” https://ukrainianweek.com/Culture/87314
Why Malevich should be considered a Ukrainian Artist?
Malevich self-identified himself as Ukrainian in his autobiography. He wrote:
“Lev Kvachevsky was my very closest friend. my very closest friend. We couldn’t live without each another.... We’d walk thirty versts every day in summer, spring, and winter for our sketch sessions, arguing all the way.... We’d discuss other matters when we ate, or reminisce about the Ukraine. He and I both were Ukrainians.”
The reference along with the original source can be found here: https://umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/departments/german_and_slavic/media/Reinterpreting_Malevich_CASS_2002(1).pdf (p.408)
His admiration for Ukraine and in particularly Kyiv is clearly stated in his autobiography:
“With each year I improved in this activity and grew more and more strongly drawn to Kiev. The colorful brick houses, the hills, the Dnieper, the distant horizon and steamships. Its whole life affected me more and more. The peasant girls would cross the Dnieper in canoes, carrying butter, milk and sour cream, covering the shores and streets of Kiev. and giving it a special color.”
“I lived far from the Prospect i in a very nice little Ukrainian house surrounded by a garden. I painted my first picture, Moonlit Night (Lunnaya Noch}. I painted mostly according to my impressions, as I had done in Belopolye. “ ("Belopolye" (Ukrainian "Bilopillia") - city in Sumy Oblast, Ukraine )
https://www.jstor.org/stable/778487
His first studied painting from Mykola Pymonenko, Ukrainian painter, at the Kyiv Art School (1895–1897), better known as the "School of Murashko". Pymonenko has visibly influenced his early art, according to Jean-Claude Marcadé. https://www.husj.harvard.edu/articles/kyiv-the-capital-of-modernity-at-the-turn-of-the-twentieth-century
In late 1920s Kazimir Malevich became a lecturer at the Kyiv Art Institute. https://msl.org.pl/malevich-in-kyiv-astonishing-return-a-lecture-by-tetyana-filevska/
He only started started studying in the Moscow school of paining when as he turned 36. Krispe13 ( talk) 21:16, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Why is the artist identified as a Russian artist, when born in Kyiv and Ukraine, two are Ukrainian and Polish couple? 68.134.139.2 ( talk) 21:55, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
while there is mention of conflicting claims for him from poland and ukraine, based on dubious evidence ( for example, in contrast to article here, only very few of his works are signed in polish spelling of his name, and he rarely claimed any connection to kiev) fact remains he chose to stay in russia and work there. almost all his works were in russia. this article is a prime example wikipedia becoming mouthpiece of racist propaganda. 2402:4000:2281:252E:2913:B105:F008:6BC9 ( talk) 01:20, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
Kazimir Malevich, was born in Ukraine, spoke Ukrainian and self-identified as such, satisfying every tenet of belonging to a nation or culture, yet this does not allay ceaseless and nonsensical attempts to remove any mention of his academically and historically established links to Ukraine. Hence, I suggest that an artistic figures right to self-identify be respected and treated as sacrosanct, as it is the most accurate source for which to describes someones origins, it certainly demands inclusion in the introduction. I am also in agreement with other opinions expressed in the talk page, archaec transliteration of 'Kiev' should be changed to 'Kyiv' where possible.@ LeviFreiglichter LeviFreiglichter ( talk) 08:38, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
MALEVICH WAS NOT RUSSIAN!!! Richerboss ( talk) 12:59, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Firstly Kyiv, not Kiev.
Secondly not "russian artist", but "Ukrainian". Kazimir Malevich is a Ukrainian artist of Polish origin. He identified himself as Ukrainian, all his work is based on reflection on Ukrainian culture and cannot be considered in isolation from it.
To call him a russian is imperialism, it's contradicts his personal self-image and erases all his art.
Here's what a researcher of his art says about it.
http://en.uartlib.org/exclusive/malevich-ta-ukrayina/
And here's how museums around the world started decolonization process of Malevich's figure. https://www.kyivpost.com/post/6481 79.140.122.107 ( talk) 20:58, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
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Change X to Y
Please change first sentence X:
[...] was a Russian avant-garde artist and art theorist, whose pioneering work and writing had a profound influence on the development of abstract art in the 20th century.
to sentence Y:
[...] was a Ukrainian artist and theorist, prominent figure of Ukrainian and Russian avant-garde, whose pioneering work and writing had a profound influence on the development of abstract art in the 20th century.
Why Malevich should be considered a Ukrainian Artist?
Malevich self-identified himself as Ukrainian in his autobiography. He wrote:
“Lev Kvachevsky was my very closest friend. my very closest friend. We couldn’t live without each another.... We’d walk thirty versts every day in summer, spring, and winter for our sketch sessions, arguing all the way.... We’d discuss other matters when we ate, or reminisce about the Ukraine. He and I both were Ukrainians.” [1]. The reference along with the original source can be found here: (p.408)
His admiration for Ukraine and in particularly Kyiv is clearly stated in his autobiography:
“With each year I improved in this activity and grew more and more strongly drawn to Kiev. The colorful brick houses, the hills, the Dnieper, the distant horizon and steamships. Its whole life affected me more and more. The peasant girls would cross the Dnieper in canoes, carrying butter, milk and sour cream, covering the shores and streets of Kiev. and giving it a special color.”
“I lived far from the Prospect i in a very nice little Ukrainian house surrounded by a garden. I painted my first picture, Moonlit Night (Lunnaya Noch}. I painted mostly according to my impressions, as I had done in Belopolye.“ [2] ("Belopolye" (Ukrainian "Bilopillia") - city in Sumy Oblast, Ukraine ).
He only started started studying in the Moscow school of paining when as he turned 36.
Describing Malevich as "a Russian avant-garde artist and art theorist", stating his "Nationality" as "Russian" and ignoring the Kyiv Art School as his first place of education supports claims made by Russian critics, who describe all art created in the post-Soviet countries as Russian [3]
According to the French critic Jean-Claude Marcadé, the only reason why Malevich is called a “Russian avant-garde” artist is because "no Russian art critics accepts this approach "of Ukrainian avant-garde being self-sufficient phenomenon]” [4]
References
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Change "Russian" artist to "Ukrainian" artist, as he was born in Kyiv in Polish family who lived un Ukraine for generations. He lived and worked in Ukraine, not only in Russia. He spoke and wrote his works in Ukrainian, and considered himself Ukrainian. 109.250.235.212 ( talk) 22:50, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
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Kazimir Malevich was Ukrainian and not Russian. He lived in Ukraine and identified himself as Ukrainian. Kseniia2 ( talk) 17:43, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
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46.211.69.63 ( talk) 05:42, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
The artist was born and have been working in Ukraine. It’s not “Russian” but “Ukrainian” artist!!!
I consider words "russian avant-garde artist" incorrect. Malevich was born in Ukraine, lived there, and what's most important he made artworks dedicated to Holodomor and suffering of Ukrainian people under russian oppression so considering him russian is absolutely not right. 37.166.205.58 ( talk) 11:06, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
References
Hi @ Mellk, Kazimir Malevich is Ukrainian. That is not a debatable statement. No consensus needed. Glad I could clear that up for you. Would you mind reverting your edit? Thanks. Bigshlomo ( talk) 15:57, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Hello Mellk, my edit was in line with Wikipedia policies. Again, Malevich is Ukrainian, this isn’t something any amount of ”academic“ debate in a talk channel can change, nor is his identity something one’s personal beliefs can dictate. Please fix it Bigshlomo ( talk) 17:18, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Hi Mellk, ”Editors who revert a change proposed by an edit should generally avoid terse explanations (such as "against consensus")“ Please explain your thinking, rather than simply shooting edits down. It comes across as you playing to an agenda. Bigshlomo ( talk) 17:30, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
no consensus needed. Mellk ( talk) 17:48, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Again, Malevich being Ukrainian is not a debatable topic. You cannot “change“ his nationality through a consensus because his nationality is already known. Bigshlomo ( talk) 17:56, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
The ones from the century don’t! Bigshlomo ( talk) 18:11, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
this* Bigshlomo ( talk) 18:11, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
I can appreciate the confusion of his nationality due to the interchangeability of Russian and Ukrainian culture in 20th Century academia, but to deny his Ukrainian identity is plain academic dishonesty. Looking through the talk and edit history, you and a few other individuals have continued to cling to sources from a time period in which the distinction between Ukraine and Russia was barely realized. To deny the countless new sources and the self identification of Malevich himself isn’t just academic dishonesty, it’s outright disinformation. Bigshlomo ( talk) 18:52, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
general consensus? I see a number of driveby IPs/new accounts who did not cite policy and came as a result of online campaigns (probably also meatpuppetry). But this is not based on a vote. See WP:CON. Such edit requests were already answered. Mellk ( talk) 07:22, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
she presented her opinion to multiple experts...
who then decided that Ukrainian was the most representative nationalityfrom? Seems strange they change their mind so often. Mellk ( talk) 16:48, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
He wasn’t russian artist. He was half Ukrainian and half Poland ( his mother was Ukrainian, father - Poland). He was repressed by russia. 213.81.211.70 ( talk) 21:55, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
The matter has been discussed extensively above. We follow reliable sources in describing Malevich as a Russian artist; ULAN for one example is considered authoritative [3]. For the spelling of his birthplace, Kyiv is now favored according to Talk:Kyiv/naming. Ewulp ( talk) 01:04, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
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Malevitch was a Ukrainian artist. He referred to himself as Ukrainian and calling him a Russian artist is simply disrespectful. 178.155.185.114 ( talk) 16:56, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
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Ukrainian city Київ must be transliterated in English as Kyiv (according to the law of Ukraine ( УКППТ 1996 ): https://intermarium.com.ua/pro-transliteratsiyu-imen-prizvyshh-ukrayintsiv-ta-geografichnyh-nazv-ukrayiny-z-ukrayinskoyi-movy-na-anglijsku/ , https://slovnyk.ua/translit.php) Kiev is outdated (it was used in USSR) Vgogh ( talk) 12:35, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
Moreover, it was already mentioned in this debate that despite being born in Russian empire, Malevich identified himself as Ukrainian. Being born in Russian empire, doesn't make you Russian. It's the same as with Arkhip Kuindzhi : "was a Ukrainian painter from the Russian Empire " [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vgogh ( talk • contribs) 12:45, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
References
So when are you guys gonna change his nationality to Ukrainian from russian or (are you for real?) soviet union? It is not even a nationality. Instead of simply blocking the editing mode, try giving it a moment to think why there was so much activity as to the question of his origin. His parents were Ukrainians, he was born in Ukraine but somehow ended up being russian, according to your page. FIX IT 193.219.187.226 ( talk) 16:42, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
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Change spelling of the capital of Ukraine from Kiev to Kyiv, please – on the basis of /info/en/?search=KyivNotKiev Ukrainian pronunciation of the city. MakSpace ( talk) 15:42, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
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Someone made serious vandal-edits to this page. I have reverted those and returned the text to it's original, but please, keep aneye on it. Esspecialy on the History, the vandal edits might be small edits which dont look insulting but on purpous misswrite the facts of his biography. 132.66.160.171 05:46, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how to create a re-direct, but could someone do for this article for Malewicz and Kazimierz Malewicz, as right now they just lead to the search page. Podagrycznik ( talk) 18:55, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to add a "See also" link to IRWIN for their 1992 homage Black Square on Red Square? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:02, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
Please do not add trivial stuff to Malevich's quotation, whoever it is since 16 February 2006. paula clare 15:22, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
link-IRWIN added paula clare 20:36, 19 March 2006 (UTC) I think the picture for "White on White" is upside down. Should this page include information about the heirs suit that they won against the Stedelijk museum? It was the basis for that recent sale at Sothebys ($60m)
The image for "White on White" is indeed upside down. Is it possible to edit this? Heterodiamond ( talk) 21:05, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Malevich: was he ever sent to the gulag? My professor said this recently but I can't find any independent verification of this.
When was Black Square actually painted? The article contradicts itself, saying both 1915 and 1913, but this lapse is fair given that he resigned his work. 211.28.246.119 ( talk) 05:42, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
The first version was painted in 1915 and is exposed at Tretyakov gallery. So the picture in the article is totally wrong, check out the article in Russian: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D1%91%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.66.152.3 ( talk) 15:20, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
I believe that the recent edits by UAKasper violate the WP:DUE and WP:POV rules by pushing an insignificant Ukrainian POV in the lede calling Malevich a Ukrainian painter and using Ukrainian sources such as an article in the Ukrainian weekly Den′ and an article authored by a Ukrainian scholar Myroslava M. Mudrak in The Ukrainian Weekly. Independent reliable authoritative sources free from bias such such Britannica, The Columbia Encyclopedia and many others from all over the world identify him as a Russian painter. So I believe we should write what the latter sources, which are a vast majority, say, rather than to use a narrow bias from the press in the lede. -- glossologist ( talk) 16:44, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Obviously, some sort of further explanation is needed, but (as far as I can see) there is none. -- FoxyOrange ( talk) 15:55, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
It looks like we have a new edit war over whether Malevich was a Belarusian or a Pole. The conflict is more difficult due to that the notion of a Belarusian ethnicity separate from Polish or Russian was not very popular at the time of Malevich birth. Roman-Catholic people born in modern Belarus would be considered Poles and Eastern Orthodox people would be considered Russian or perhaps Lithuanians. At the end of Malevich's life the notion of Belarusian ethnicity was very strong and at the time of the Great Terror might mean the difference between life and death (ethnic Poles were one of the main targets of the Great Terror).
Now we have a very solid source stating that Malevich's parents were Poles. We do not know whether the source meant it in the modern sense or in the 19th century sense (that would include ethnic Belarusians and Ukrainians). We cannot alter the words source and change Poles into Belarusians - it will be an original research. On the other hand we have also a pretty reliable source stating that Malevich himself identified as a Belarusian. We do not know whether it meant that Malevich's parents self-identified themselves as Belarusian, whether he was just felt inclination to Belarusian people or whether he secretly consider himself as a Pole but stated otherwise to hide from persecutions. We do not know. We still cannot ignore a notable source about his self-identification. Lets incorporate the info from both sources as much as possible. Any additional information will be appreciated.
Now my proposal:
Alex Bakharev ( talk) 03:29, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
Dear Ewulp, you appear to completely luck the necessary knowledge of the region and sensibility for the issues of national identity in multinational empires. Please, before you try to intervene and correct anything written on the issue, read "The Reconstruction of Nations" by Timothy Snyder, it should be a good introduction for you. You may also read a major book of your choice from Nationalism Studies (Hobsbawm, Brubaker, Anthony D. Smith etc.). Than procede to the books on Ethnic history and problems of identity. You may also find useful to improve general methodological preparation (such as learn to distinguish between primary and secondary sources) and learn the languages of the region (Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Russian - I know all of them) in order to be able to read the primary sources. Kiryl, PhD in Cultural History — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.31.226.175 ( talk) 11:15, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
I was trying to validate Belarusian selfidentification of Malevich but could not find any even marginally reliable sources by web/book searches (and searches in my home library). We certainly need to validate the sources cited. I am currently reside in Australia and it is difficult for me to access Родословие и предки К. С. Малевича // Малевич о себе. Современники о Малевиче. Авторы-составители И. А. Вакар, Т. Н. Михиенко. Т. 1. Москва, 2004. С. 372—385; and other book sources printed in Moscow and Belarus. Still I am a native Russian speaker and I guess I could validate the source and translate it into English. There are also plenty of Russian and Belarusian speaking wikipedians to help us with translation.
Whoever have access to book sources used, please scan them and send to abakharev@gmail.com (that is me) or put it somewhere on the web and give us the link. Web sources may also be useful. If the sources will not be validated in a week I think we should remove the info. Meanwhile I removed word mistakenly - no sources for that.
BTW what is wrong with Polish and Russian been Malevich's native languages? The info is sources and was not challenged, I am to restore ir Alex Bakharev ( talk) 23:43, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
This article seems to avoid mentioning that he has been often known in English under the spelling "Casimir"... AnonMoos ( talk) 17:30, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
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I think it used to be there. It seems better to me than the photograph, so I moved that to his early life. ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥ ♥ Talk♥ 01:48, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
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Malevich was a Ukrainian artist born and raised in Ukraine in a Polish-Ukrainian family. source: https://m.day.kyiv.ua/en/article/time-out/kazimir-malevich-ukrainian-roots-his-avant-garde-art 31.43.249.61 ( talk) 19:15, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
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ScottishFinnishRadish (
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19:26, 14 April 2022 (UTC)To User:Down on the corner: can you clarify why you removed the comments regarding powerty and prosecution? The comments you removed appear factually correct. Gene s 11:00, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to add a "See also" linking to IRWIN for their 1992 homage Black Square on Red Square? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:02, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, but do you guys know that "Russian Empire" and "Soviet Union" is not a nationality, right? This is citizenship. And the most strange for me was to see that "he was russian" and his native languages were "polish and russian". And no ukrainian. Really? Was born in Kyiv in 1878, all early live lived in ukrainian villages and ukrainian wasn't native language, but russian was? Is there some sources of this (again no offence, but this is very strange)?
For my points here's one of his autobiographic notes (yeah, written in ukrainian, strange isn't), where he descibes himself as ukrainian:
original: “…Це був Лев Квачевський. Він був студентом пейзажного класу Академії мистецтв у Петербурзі. День у день ходили ми з ним на етюди влітку, навесні і зимою, верстов по тридцять за день. Цілу дорогу сперечалися. Припиняли суперечку тільки тоді, коли сідали полуднювати. Згадували Україну. Він та я були українці.”
translation: "... This was Lev Kvachevsky. He was student of landscape class of Petersbug's arts academy. From day to day we walked with him to etudes in summer, spring and winter, for about 30 kilometers a day. Whole road we argued. We stopped arguing only when were going for dinner. Remembered Ukraine. He and me were ukrainians".
And Ukrainian is real nationality, not citizenship like "Russian Empire" or "Soviet Union", which is completely stupid. So, will this be fixed somehow? Thx. Sandric ( talk) 00:24, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
Kiev was within the Russian Empire in 1879. Although artcyclopedia calls him Ukrainian, Malevich is Russian according to Oxford Art Online, britannica.com, Getty Union List of Artist Names, MoMA website and publications, Guggenheim website, Art Institute of Chicago website, Penguin Concise Dictionary of Art History, and Dictionary of 20th Century Art. Ewulp ( talk) 04:14, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
People, I'm new to wiki so pardon if i'm not doing it in the right way. The following
Is plain wrong. Both spelling and transcription are Russian not Ukrainian. It is spelled and pronounced completely different in Ukrainian. I changed it to Russian a few times but someone is reverting the change. Therefore I'm doing it once again and asking an ethnical Ukrainian to add Ukrainain spelling to the entry if it is needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.188.236.136 ( talk) 23:28, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
See here: https://www.lawfareblog.com/war-over-ukraine-wikipedia. 73.239.233.137 ( talk) 14:50, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
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Malevich is a Ukrainian artist, born in Kyiv and has a Ukrainian surname 46.119.118.107 ( talk) 14:18, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
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ScottishFinnishRadish (
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16:05, 15 August 2022 (UTC)fix it 91.142.160.69 ( talk) 13:19, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
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Malevich was an Ukrainian artist, not a Russian artist. Please change "Russian" to "Ukrainian". Stop the cultural erasure of Ukrainian heritage by assigning them to Russia. 213.124.107.170 ( talk) 17:37, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
I see all this topics about changing of very important parts of Kazimirs biography, but although i see, that some stupid bastards just continue to have pro russian opinion, and I'm sure, that they don't even saw even one of those. They just continue this "not changing" politics. 156.17.239.162 ( talk) 10:30, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Malevich was never Russian. 2A00:23C4:5B81:A701:C905:B875:E840:BFF6 ( talk) 07:07, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
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"Malevich would later write a series of articles in Ukrainian about art, and identified as Ukrainian." And, he was Polish by ethnc background - yet in the very first sentence of the article he is introduced as a contributor to *Russian* avantguard. How does that makes sense? If you must attribute him to some national type of avant-garde, say it was Ukrainian - or just say avant-garde. In the end of 2022, this blunder is more noticeable than ever. 108.162.130.195 ( talk) 23:23, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
Based on the information given in the Wiki article and discussion on the editing pages, the changes to be made are to remove "Russian" from: Kazimir Severinovich Malevich[nb 1] (23 February [O.S. 11 February] 1879[1] – 15 May 1935) was a Russian avant-garde artist and art theorist to Kazimir Severinovich Malevich[nb 1] (23 February [O.S. 11 February] 1879[1] – 15 May 1935) was an avant-garde artist and art theorist
RealAspects ( talk) 06:51, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
{{
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template. Russian avant-garde is the name of the art movement, based on the fact it was contained within the Russian Empire. It is mentioned later in the same paragraph that some consider him a part of the separate Ukrainian avant-garde movement. There are edits changing this back-and-forth, hence it is not an uncontroversial change.
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Malevich was an Ukrainan artist. Not Russian. 84.212.196.139 ( talk) 08:10, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
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Firstly Kyiv, not Kiev.
Secondly not "russian artist", but "Ukrainian". Kazimir Malevich is a Ukrainian artist of polish origin. He identified himself as Ukrainian, all his work is based on reflection on Ukrainian culture and cannot be considered in isolation from it.
To call him a russian is imperialism, it's contradicts his personal self-image and erases all his art.
Here's what a researcher of his art says about it, and here's how museums around the world started decolonization process of Malevich.
http://en.uartlib.org/exclusive/malevich-ta-ukrayina/
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/6481 79.140.122.107 ( talk) 20:55, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
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01:23, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
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Change "Russian avant-garde" to "Polish-Ukrainian avant-garde" as he was ethically Polish and according to source [24]
he identified as Ukrainian. Petrchpetr ( talk) 16:57, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
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13:31, 24 January 2023 (UTC)![]() | This
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Hello,
Change 'Born in Kiev' to Born in Kyiv. Could 'Russian' also be removed from the first line as he was born in Kyiv. Suggest he is just referred to as 'an avant-garde artist' as he was born in Kyiv.
Thanks, Lucy Lucyjnoakes ( talk) 16:31, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
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Change Russian artist to Ukrainian artist 2A02:1811:1C7E:C100:F0DC:9252:EFD2:7CCB ( talk) 23:15, 10 February 2023 (UTC) https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2022/05/18/malevich-is-not-russian-activist-group-takes-to-instagram-to-demand-that-ukrainian-heritage-is-recognised A clarification article why Malevich is Ukrainian
Not done for now: please establish a
consensus for this alteration
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PianoDan (
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17:11, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
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Change : Nationality Russian Empire → Soviet Union to Citizenship Russian Empire → Soviet Union
Add : Nationality Ukrainian, Polish (which corresponds to the references given in the text [21-24]) Thrynova ( talk) 17:47, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
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M.Bitton (
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14:35, 23 February 2023 (UTC)Speaking about Malevich as Russian is inappropriate. He was born in Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine, and his ethnicity is polish if I am not mistaken. So I would rather speak of him based on his polish ethnical roots rather than russian. You don’t say that Kafka is Austrian novelist because he died in Klosterneuburg. Sergesakhno ( talk) 03:14, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
He is in fact described as Ukrainian in a significant number of sources. And speaking Russian does not make him an ethnic Russian (ask Zalensky). Volunteer Marek 18:14, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
Honestly, I think the underlying problem is with the term Russian avant-garde and the inclusion of all sorts of not-really-Russian people under this heading. This itself is an outdated reflection of both Western orientalism which sees all non-Balkan Slavs as "some variety of Russian" (similar to how Western racists perceive all "Asian" people to mean "Chinese") and 19th century Russian chauvinism and nationalism ("all Slavic rivers flowing into the Russian sea" and all that). So that account that got blocked was not entirely wrong and I see where they're coming from. The issue for us as an encyclopedia is that sources do indeed speak of a "Russian avant-garde" and we follow sources, even if they're outdated. But... this is indeed an outdated, "colonizer" term. Almost all of the "Russian"-avant-garde were Ukrainian or Jewish or... French. Volunteer Marek 21:02, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
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Describing Malevich as "a Russian avant-garde artist and art theorist", stating his "Nationality" as "Russian" and ignoring the Kyiv Art School as his first place of education supports claims made by Russian critics, who describe all art created in the post-Soviet countries as Russian. https://uacrisis.org/en/53524-malevych-2
According to the French critic Jean-Claude Marcadé, the only reason why Malevich is called a “Russian avant-garde” artist is because "no Russian art critics accepts this approach [of Ukrainian avant-garde being self-sufficient phenomenon]” https://ukrainianweek.com/Culture/87314
Why Malevich should be considered a Ukrainian Artist?
Malevich self-identified himself as Ukrainian in his autobiography. He wrote:
“Lev Kvachevsky was my very closest friend. my very closest friend. We couldn’t live without each another.... We’d walk thirty versts every day in summer, spring, and winter for our sketch sessions, arguing all the way.... We’d discuss other matters when we ate, or reminisce about the Ukraine. He and I both were Ukrainians.”
The reference along with the original source can be found here: https://umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/departments/german_and_slavic/media/Reinterpreting_Malevich_CASS_2002(1).pdf (p.408)
His admiration for Ukraine and in particularly Kyiv is clearly stated in his autobiography:
“With each year I improved in this activity and grew more and more strongly drawn to Kiev. The colorful brick houses, the hills, the Dnieper, the distant horizon and steamships. Its whole life affected me more and more. The peasant girls would cross the Dnieper in canoes, carrying butter, milk and sour cream, covering the shores and streets of Kiev. and giving it a special color.”
“I lived far from the Prospect i in a very nice little Ukrainian house surrounded by a garden. I painted my first picture, Moonlit Night (Lunnaya Noch}. I painted mostly according to my impressions, as I had done in Belopolye. “ ("Belopolye" (Ukrainian "Bilopillia") - city in Sumy Oblast, Ukraine )
https://www.jstor.org/stable/778487
His first studied painting from Mykola Pymonenko, Ukrainian painter, at the Kyiv Art School (1895–1897), better known as the "School of Murashko". Pymonenko has visibly influenced his early art, according to Jean-Claude Marcadé. https://www.husj.harvard.edu/articles/kyiv-the-capital-of-modernity-at-the-turn-of-the-twentieth-century
In late 1920s Kazimir Malevich became a lecturer at the Kyiv Art Institute. https://msl.org.pl/malevich-in-kyiv-astonishing-return-a-lecture-by-tetyana-filevska/
He only started started studying in the Moscow school of paining when as he turned 36. Krispe13 ( talk) 21:16, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Why is the artist identified as a Russian artist, when born in Kyiv and Ukraine, two are Ukrainian and Polish couple? 68.134.139.2 ( talk) 21:55, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
while there is mention of conflicting claims for him from poland and ukraine, based on dubious evidence ( for example, in contrast to article here, only very few of his works are signed in polish spelling of his name, and he rarely claimed any connection to kiev) fact remains he chose to stay in russia and work there. almost all his works were in russia. this article is a prime example wikipedia becoming mouthpiece of racist propaganda. 2402:4000:2281:252E:2913:B105:F008:6BC9 ( talk) 01:20, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
Kazimir Malevich, was born in Ukraine, spoke Ukrainian and self-identified as such, satisfying every tenet of belonging to a nation or culture, yet this does not allay ceaseless and nonsensical attempts to remove any mention of his academically and historically established links to Ukraine. Hence, I suggest that an artistic figures right to self-identify be respected and treated as sacrosanct, as it is the most accurate source for which to describes someones origins, it certainly demands inclusion in the introduction. I am also in agreement with other opinions expressed in the talk page, archaec transliteration of 'Kiev' should be changed to 'Kyiv' where possible.@ LeviFreiglichter LeviFreiglichter ( talk) 08:38, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
MALEVICH WAS NOT RUSSIAN!!! Richerboss ( talk) 12:59, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Firstly Kyiv, not Kiev.
Secondly not "russian artist", but "Ukrainian". Kazimir Malevich is a Ukrainian artist of Polish origin. He identified himself as Ukrainian, all his work is based on reflection on Ukrainian culture and cannot be considered in isolation from it.
To call him a russian is imperialism, it's contradicts his personal self-image and erases all his art.
Here's what a researcher of his art says about it.
http://en.uartlib.org/exclusive/malevich-ta-ukrayina/
And here's how museums around the world started decolonization process of Malevich's figure. https://www.kyivpost.com/post/6481 79.140.122.107 ( talk) 20:58, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
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Change X to Y
Please change first sentence X:
[...] was a Russian avant-garde artist and art theorist, whose pioneering work and writing had a profound influence on the development of abstract art in the 20th century.
to sentence Y:
[...] was a Ukrainian artist and theorist, prominent figure of Ukrainian and Russian avant-garde, whose pioneering work and writing had a profound influence on the development of abstract art in the 20th century.
Why Malevich should be considered a Ukrainian Artist?
Malevich self-identified himself as Ukrainian in his autobiography. He wrote:
“Lev Kvachevsky was my very closest friend. my very closest friend. We couldn’t live without each another.... We’d walk thirty versts every day in summer, spring, and winter for our sketch sessions, arguing all the way.... We’d discuss other matters when we ate, or reminisce about the Ukraine. He and I both were Ukrainians.” [1]. The reference along with the original source can be found here: (p.408)
His admiration for Ukraine and in particularly Kyiv is clearly stated in his autobiography:
“With each year I improved in this activity and grew more and more strongly drawn to Kiev. The colorful brick houses, the hills, the Dnieper, the distant horizon and steamships. Its whole life affected me more and more. The peasant girls would cross the Dnieper in canoes, carrying butter, milk and sour cream, covering the shores and streets of Kiev. and giving it a special color.”
“I lived far from the Prospect i in a very nice little Ukrainian house surrounded by a garden. I painted my first picture, Moonlit Night (Lunnaya Noch}. I painted mostly according to my impressions, as I had done in Belopolye.“ [2] ("Belopolye" (Ukrainian "Bilopillia") - city in Sumy Oblast, Ukraine ).
He only started started studying in the Moscow school of paining when as he turned 36.
Describing Malevich as "a Russian avant-garde artist and art theorist", stating his "Nationality" as "Russian" and ignoring the Kyiv Art School as his first place of education supports claims made by Russian critics, who describe all art created in the post-Soviet countries as Russian [3]
According to the French critic Jean-Claude Marcadé, the only reason why Malevich is called a “Russian avant-garde” artist is because "no Russian art critics accepts this approach "of Ukrainian avant-garde being self-sufficient phenomenon]” [4]
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Change "Russian" artist to "Ukrainian" artist, as he was born in Kyiv in Polish family who lived un Ukraine for generations. He lived and worked in Ukraine, not only in Russia. He spoke and wrote his works in Ukrainian, and considered himself Ukrainian. 109.250.235.212 ( talk) 22:50, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
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Kazimir Malevich was Ukrainian and not Russian. He lived in Ukraine and identified himself as Ukrainian. Kseniia2 ( talk) 17:43, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
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46.211.69.63 ( talk) 05:42, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
The artist was born and have been working in Ukraine. It’s not “Russian” but “Ukrainian” artist!!!
I consider words "russian avant-garde artist" incorrect. Malevich was born in Ukraine, lived there, and what's most important he made artworks dedicated to Holodomor and suffering of Ukrainian people under russian oppression so considering him russian is absolutely not right. 37.166.205.58 ( talk) 11:06, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
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Hi @ Mellk, Kazimir Malevich is Ukrainian. That is not a debatable statement. No consensus needed. Glad I could clear that up for you. Would you mind reverting your edit? Thanks. Bigshlomo ( talk) 15:57, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Hello Mellk, my edit was in line with Wikipedia policies. Again, Malevich is Ukrainian, this isn’t something any amount of ”academic“ debate in a talk channel can change, nor is his identity something one’s personal beliefs can dictate. Please fix it Bigshlomo ( talk) 17:18, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Hi Mellk, ”Editors who revert a change proposed by an edit should generally avoid terse explanations (such as "against consensus")“ Please explain your thinking, rather than simply shooting edits down. It comes across as you playing to an agenda. Bigshlomo ( talk) 17:30, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
no consensus needed. Mellk ( talk) 17:48, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Again, Malevich being Ukrainian is not a debatable topic. You cannot “change“ his nationality through a consensus because his nationality is already known. Bigshlomo ( talk) 17:56, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
The ones from the century don’t! Bigshlomo ( talk) 18:11, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
this* Bigshlomo ( talk) 18:11, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
I can appreciate the confusion of his nationality due to the interchangeability of Russian and Ukrainian culture in 20th Century academia, but to deny his Ukrainian identity is plain academic dishonesty. Looking through the talk and edit history, you and a few other individuals have continued to cling to sources from a time period in which the distinction between Ukraine and Russia was barely realized. To deny the countless new sources and the self identification of Malevich himself isn’t just academic dishonesty, it’s outright disinformation. Bigshlomo ( talk) 18:52, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
general consensus? I see a number of driveby IPs/new accounts who did not cite policy and came as a result of online campaigns (probably also meatpuppetry). But this is not based on a vote. See WP:CON. Such edit requests were already answered. Mellk ( talk) 07:22, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
she presented her opinion to multiple experts...
who then decided that Ukrainian was the most representative nationalityfrom? Seems strange they change their mind so often. Mellk ( talk) 16:48, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
He wasn’t russian artist. He was half Ukrainian and half Poland ( his mother was Ukrainian, father - Poland). He was repressed by russia. 213.81.211.70 ( talk) 21:55, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
The matter has been discussed extensively above. We follow reliable sources in describing Malevich as a Russian artist; ULAN for one example is considered authoritative [3]. For the spelling of his birthplace, Kyiv is now favored according to Talk:Kyiv/naming. Ewulp ( talk) 01:04, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
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Malevitch was a Ukrainian artist. He referred to himself as Ukrainian and calling him a Russian artist is simply disrespectful. 178.155.185.114 ( talk) 16:56, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
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Ukrainian city Київ must be transliterated in English as Kyiv (according to the law of Ukraine ( УКППТ 1996 ): https://intermarium.com.ua/pro-transliteratsiyu-imen-prizvyshh-ukrayintsiv-ta-geografichnyh-nazv-ukrayiny-z-ukrayinskoyi-movy-na-anglijsku/ , https://slovnyk.ua/translit.php) Kiev is outdated (it was used in USSR) Vgogh ( talk) 12:35, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
Moreover, it was already mentioned in this debate that despite being born in Russian empire, Malevich identified himself as Ukrainian. Being born in Russian empire, doesn't make you Russian. It's the same as with Arkhip Kuindzhi : "was a Ukrainian painter from the Russian Empire " [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vgogh ( talk • contribs) 12:45, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
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So when are you guys gonna change his nationality to Ukrainian from russian or (are you for real?) soviet union? It is not even a nationality. Instead of simply blocking the editing mode, try giving it a moment to think why there was so much activity as to the question of his origin. His parents were Ukrainians, he was born in Ukraine but somehow ended up being russian, according to your page. FIX IT 193.219.187.226 ( talk) 16:42, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
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Change spelling of the capital of Ukraine from Kiev to Kyiv, please – on the basis of /info/en/?search=KyivNotKiev Ukrainian pronunciation of the city. MakSpace ( talk) 15:42, 8 December 2023 (UTC)