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![]() | On 1 October 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Old Javanese language. The result of the discussion was Moved to Old Javanese. |
I find something weird with this statement:
Kawi, which is considered as Old Javanese, uses Hanacaraka (Carakan script)? I know that Javanese language uses Hanacaraka (Carakan script), but I think Kawi uses its own script called Kawi script. And Kawi script is different with Javanese script (I know that because I can read Javanese script, but not Kawi script).
I look up at Kawi script page, and it's written there:
So I think Kawi language (Old Javanese) uses its own Kawi script (which's different with Hanacaraka), while (Modern) Javanese language uses Hanacaraka (Carakan script).
Can somebody explain this? Any linguist can check its accuracy? Thank you very much. Yofan Pratama P ( talk) 23:52, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
http://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac00buscgoog
Rajmaan ( talk) 18:13, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Über die Kawi-Sprache auf der Insel Java: nebst einer Einleitung über die Verschiedenheit des menschlichen Sprachbaues und ihren Einfluss auf die geistige Entwickelung des Menschengeschlechts, Volume 3 By Wilhelm Freiherr von Humboldt, Johann Karl Eduard Buschmann
Über die Kawi-sprache auf der insel Java, nebst einer einleitung über die verschiedenheit des menschlichen sprachbaues und ihren einfluss auf die geistige entwickelung des menschengeschlechts (1836)
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac00buscgoog
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac01buscgoog
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac02buscgoog
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac03buscgoog
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac00unkngoog
Kawi-balineesch-nederlandsch woordenboek (1897)
https://archive.org/details/kawibalineeschn00tuukgoog
Kawi-Balineesch-Nederlandsch glossarium op het Oudjavaansche Râmâyana. Bewerkt door H.H. Juynboll. Uitg. door het Koninklijk Instituut voor de Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde van Nederlandsch-Indië (1902)
https://archive.org/details/kawibalineeschne00juynuoft
Bhrata-Yuddha; oldjavaansch heldendicht, uitg. door J.G.H. Gunning (1903)
https://archive.org/details/bhratayuddhaoldj00gunnuoft
Rajmaan ( talk) 14:26, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Can anybody competently describe differences between the two? It often happens that both names are used in the same text interchangeably so there is a bit of confusion. What is their exact relation? Is kawi a diffrerent language or (as it seemms to me)an elaborated (ie sanskritized) form of Old Javanese? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.26.236.205 ( talk) 14:51, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
@ Meursault2004: please feel free to revert / clean up / rewrite. You clearly know more about this than I do! — kwami ( talk) 00:56, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: Moved to Old Javanese. Per consensus ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 01:33, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
Kawi language → Old Javanese language – "Old Javanese language" is the WP:COMMONNAME. While "Kawi language" is clearly also in use (see ISO name and Glottolog), "Old Javanese" outweighs "Kawi" as the name of the language in specialist and non-specialist sources.
Simple search results in JSTOR and Google Scholar are even among the two terms, but this is due to the impacts of Humboldt's monograph on the language from 1838. Every work citing Humboldt's book will thus create a hit for "Kawi language", even if the author of the work uses a different term. If "Humboldt" is filtered out from the search results, we get a clearer picture of the actual usage:
Additional evidence comes from the relevant specialist literature. Two academics who have devoted their scholarly career to the language, P.J. Zoetmulder [5] and Thomas W. Hunter, have used "Old Javanese". Also in overview sources in the field, "Old Javanese" is generally used, e.g. in Blust's The Austronesian languages or in Adelaar and Himelmann's The Austronesian Languages of Asia and Madagascar.
As mentioned above, the elephants in the room are the tertiary sources Ethnologue and Glottolog, but this is not the only case where ISO language names are at odds with WP:COMMONNAME. Austronesier ( talk) 15:24, 1 October 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Arbitrarily0 ( talk) 02:38, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
The following is from WP:RM/TR:
(end copy from RM/TR) – robertsky ( talk) 16:39, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 1 October 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Old Javanese language. The result of the discussion was Moved to Old Javanese. |
I find something weird with this statement:
Kawi, which is considered as Old Javanese, uses Hanacaraka (Carakan script)? I know that Javanese language uses Hanacaraka (Carakan script), but I think Kawi uses its own script called Kawi script. And Kawi script is different with Javanese script (I know that because I can read Javanese script, but not Kawi script).
I look up at Kawi script page, and it's written there:
So I think Kawi language (Old Javanese) uses its own Kawi script (which's different with Hanacaraka), while (Modern) Javanese language uses Hanacaraka (Carakan script).
Can somebody explain this? Any linguist can check its accuracy? Thank you very much. Yofan Pratama P ( talk) 23:52, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
http://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac00buscgoog
Rajmaan ( talk) 18:13, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Über die Kawi-Sprache auf der Insel Java: nebst einer Einleitung über die Verschiedenheit des menschlichen Sprachbaues und ihren Einfluss auf die geistige Entwickelung des Menschengeschlechts, Volume 3 By Wilhelm Freiherr von Humboldt, Johann Karl Eduard Buschmann
Über die Kawi-sprache auf der insel Java, nebst einer einleitung über die verschiedenheit des menschlichen sprachbaues und ihren einfluss auf die geistige entwickelung des menschengeschlechts (1836)
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac00buscgoog
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac01buscgoog
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac02buscgoog
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac03buscgoog
https://archive.org/details/berdiekawisprac00unkngoog
Kawi-balineesch-nederlandsch woordenboek (1897)
https://archive.org/details/kawibalineeschn00tuukgoog
Kawi-Balineesch-Nederlandsch glossarium op het Oudjavaansche Râmâyana. Bewerkt door H.H. Juynboll. Uitg. door het Koninklijk Instituut voor de Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde van Nederlandsch-Indië (1902)
https://archive.org/details/kawibalineeschne00juynuoft
Bhrata-Yuddha; oldjavaansch heldendicht, uitg. door J.G.H. Gunning (1903)
https://archive.org/details/bhratayuddhaoldj00gunnuoft
Rajmaan ( talk) 14:26, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Can anybody competently describe differences between the two? It often happens that both names are used in the same text interchangeably so there is a bit of confusion. What is their exact relation? Is kawi a diffrerent language or (as it seemms to me)an elaborated (ie sanskritized) form of Old Javanese? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.26.236.205 ( talk) 14:51, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
@ Meursault2004: please feel free to revert / clean up / rewrite. You clearly know more about this than I do! — kwami ( talk) 00:56, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kawi language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:42, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Old Javanese. Per consensus ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 01:33, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
Kawi language → Old Javanese language – "Old Javanese language" is the WP:COMMONNAME. While "Kawi language" is clearly also in use (see ISO name and Glottolog), "Old Javanese" outweighs "Kawi" as the name of the language in specialist and non-specialist sources.
Simple search results in JSTOR and Google Scholar are even among the two terms, but this is due to the impacts of Humboldt's monograph on the language from 1838. Every work citing Humboldt's book will thus create a hit for "Kawi language", even if the author of the work uses a different term. If "Humboldt" is filtered out from the search results, we get a clearer picture of the actual usage:
Additional evidence comes from the relevant specialist literature. Two academics who have devoted their scholarly career to the language, P.J. Zoetmulder [5] and Thomas W. Hunter, have used "Old Javanese". Also in overview sources in the field, "Old Javanese" is generally used, e.g. in Blust's The Austronesian languages or in Adelaar and Himelmann's The Austronesian Languages of Asia and Madagascar.
As mentioned above, the elephants in the room are the tertiary sources Ethnologue and Glottolog, but this is not the only case where ISO language names are at odds with WP:COMMONNAME. Austronesier ( talk) 15:24, 1 October 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Arbitrarily0 ( talk) 02:38, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
The following is from WP:RM/TR:
(end copy from RM/TR) – robertsky ( talk) 16:39, 1 October 2022 (UTC)