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Archive 1 |
A massive clean up is required - language will have to be made simple and duplicate references and free flow style of presentation will have to be removed. Sections will have to renamed and several other things.... I am trying for one or two smaller sections. In case, any one donot want me to do cleanup in the manner I shall be doing, plz drop a message here. I will stop and step aside. Thanks.-- Bhadani 14:27, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, Bhadani and other good friends who voted to
keep the article, but suggested a clean-up and wittling it down to a reasonable size.
Also I greatly appreciate your and PHG 's efforts in cleaning up the article.
I can cut down the artcle to anysize the Wikians want it and also remove all secondary source references if suggested, but I have suggestion that the pre-clean up full-size article be preserved at some site in the Wiki-domain so that someone interested in full details of Kambojas may have an access to that.
Thanks KLS.
hello everyone interested in this task - actually here main problem is that the article size is very big than the size desired by wikipedia. A lot of references will have to be made compact. With all the materials avaiolable here a book may be prepared and placed along with the article. The size of the article may accordingly be made more compact, containing all the materials. No doubt, it is a challenging task, if not daunting. We all who are interested in this work must continue to work and exchange views. -- Bhadani 16:33, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
On May 13, 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Kambojas for a record of the discussion. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 14:59, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
To All suporters:
I am very thankful to the friends who have expressed interest in this article. This article is indeed based on original research on Kamboj people, and all the information presented here is based on primary sources or else on highly creditable secondary sources. If any reader finds some thing which he/she thinks goes against established history facts, please do write. It should be our endavor to improve this article further. Important thing is that if all vital information about the Kambojas is to be presented here, the article size could be a bit longer. If some friend can creat sub-artcles based on the sections of this article, please go ahead. We would appreciate the initiative.
Thanks again.
The references in this article don't have enough context to be useful. They need to be turned into footnotes that give full citations, or at least that use intelligible abbreviations. The talk page also contains a gratuitous amount of information. It should probably be moved to one or more subpages, and someone needs to check whether or not any of it still needs processing of some kind. -- Beland 06:29, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
It is quite clear from the two V/AfD's that the subject matter of this article is needed in this encyclopedid but it needs a lot of work. It needs a huge ammount of work. What I sugest is that we try to rewrite the article here. What we should do is slowly develop an article that wikipedia readers who do not know anything about this subject will be able to understand. Any objections? Anybody willing to help? Andreww 11:17, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks! I think we should can the rewrite idea and just go with a major clean of the page. Andreww 09:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
Before placing this nonsensical and irrelevant template here, come and discuss the information in this article from historical point of view. This is vandalusm Sze cavalry01 19:02, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
I have replied here. - Ganeshk ( talk) 07:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Dear friends,
The term Kambojayes is used for Aryan people who settled as Scythians in modern Afghanistan and Tajikistan, including parts of the ancient Marakanda(Sogdiana), Margiana (Merv) and maybe as well for Khwarezmia (Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan), Pakistan and North-West India. This people were subordinated in three groups. Their names were Kambuji or Kambojayi, Ashvakan and Kambohs. The Kambujis spoke Avestan language and were located in modern Afghanistan, the Ashvakans spoke something like Vedic (Sanscrit) and later their language developed or picked out an own stock of the indo-iranian group of the indo-iranian languages which are today known as south eastern iranian languages like Shughni, Wakhi and Pashto (Afghanic). This people were unlike their neighbours neither Hindus nor Zarathustrians but Pagans till today. The great Al-Biruni wrote about these people, including Afghans who were one of those people who were not islamized.
the term Kambuji or Kamboja was used and today is used for Persians (Tajiks and Iranians) who spoke in modern Afghanistan the Avestan language. Later some moved to west like the historica Persians of Sistan from the Aratti region (between Iran and Afghanistan) and moved to Pars.
Nuristanis belong to Ashvakans of the Kamboyayes like Afghans and Chitral people and Ormurs while Kambujis(not Kamboyayes!!) of the aryanic Kamboyayes were zoroastrians.
The Kambohs were Hindus or they converted to Hinduism because first they were mithraists like all Aryan people.
Therefore, plz. change or correct some sources here on the article. It is important to make diff. between Ashvakan Kambojayes and the Kambuji Kambojayes or Kambohs. Nuristanis do not belong to Kambujis but to Kamboyayes.
With best Regards -- 84.59.4.1 14:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
A cleanup is required here. For example, why are there over a dozen citations for one small sentence in the beginning of the second paragraph I'm not sure if it even requires one citation! Cleanup per MoS is needed. Cheers, ask123 16:51, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Dear contributor with IP address 84.59.4.1, your statements on Kambuji/Kambojayi, Ashvakan and Kambohs are quite new, confusing and also lack evidence. Please clarify and cite sources in support of your assertions. In future, please also attach your full signatures and not the IP address.
Satbir Singh ( talk) 01:20, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
This article is supposed to be about the Iron Age tribe. The kingdom is discussed at Kamboja Kingdom. The name itself at Kamboja (name). The tribe's appearance in Sanskrit literature at Kambojas in Indian literature. The modern tribe at Kamboj. All are duly linked. Avoid redundancies. See WP:SS. dab (𒁳) 16:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Satbir, please read WP:SS and WP:CFORK. There is a full article on Kambojas in Indian literature. Feel free to develop that. Do not replicate the full topic of "Kambojas in Indian literature" here. The same goes for the other sub-articles of this one. dab (𒁳) 10:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
There is a cadre of know-it-all editors who gadfly about frequent
Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard, a moderately scary project that, according to the noticeboard's talkpage, prefers to operate as a "private" discussion among self-styled "fringe" experts (one admin in particular) of whether or not all mention of entire subjects should be sent to the memory-hole en masse on grounds of being "fringe"; despite multiple calls for greater transparency, their policy remains not to inform the editors on the article talkpages concerned.
I have been lurking on that page, just waiting for them to stick their heads in way too deep. It appears they have now done so, someone has just proposed all Kambojas-related pages and templates for the usual dissection / merge job, which appears to have started already. They determined it was fringe, simply because none of them have ever heard of it, and they know nothing of the subject, therefore it must be "fringe". The great mass of cited historians and sources on this page suggests to me otherwise, however. Now I will sit back again and lurk to see how you all deal with this neanderthal "I know nothing about this, so it must be deleted as fringe" mentality.
Blockinblox (
talk)
19:19, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you 100% Blockinblox. I have noticed this particular poster *live* on the article pages that are related to hinduism., vedas and so called aryan invasion, and make reverts, edits and effectivley shutting down ANY input that is opposed to his POV. Any valid references are completley ignored. Now this poster has no fear telling us that hinduism is far from vedic religion(?) as christianity is from babylonian relgions. Thank you for enlightening us Dab, for we are ignoramuses.
Seriously, what can we do to stop this particular poster from abusing his admin rights? I am new to wiki and not yet familiar with how to go about complaining about him. Ddviticus ( talk) 03:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I have just been through the article removing the proliferation of titles (in, particular, the massive overuse of "Dr." and "Prof" to describe some writers, while no titles were given to others - some of whom had superior qualifications) as per the "Wikipedia Manual of Style" - see: [1]. In the process I made a number of other small edits - mainly spelling and grammar mistakes.
Also, it seems to me that there are a tremendous number of references - more than anyone could easily check on (even though most of them are from just a few authors). Maybe this could be cut down or condensed somehow??? Sincerely, John Hill ( talk) 03:43, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
There's a reference in the article to Pakistan Review, 1962, and a page number. Pakistan Review is, from what I can ascertain, a prominent and serious publication, although not a scholarly journal of historians. The problem is in this case that we have no article title or author. If an index is available, the page reference might resolve the issue, but I can't find one online. Can anyone help out or suggest how to proceed? Thanks. Itsmejudith ( talk) 12:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
I added a to-do list, using suggestions already on this talk page. Please discuss. In the meantime, I am starting on the task that I have listed first, i.e. checking that I can find all the sources mentioned by searching in catalogues (COPAC, Library of Congress, Amazon). Itsmejudith ( talk) 09:37, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Itsmejudith ( talk) 16:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
I also would welcome comments on any of the following, which I didn't add to the 1990s references in the bibliography, for the reasons given in the italic headings:
Can't find
Reprints or re-editions of earlier texts
Possible self-publication
Editions of traditional or ancient texts, possibly to treat as primary
If one goes through Kirpal Singh Dardi's research book "The Kambojas Through the Ages" dispassionately, one will really wonder if he (Kirpal Singh Dardi) is a Civil Engineer or else a dedicated researcher and historian.
By the way, Damodar Dharmananda Kosambi, an acknowledged Indian historian was a Mathematician and statistician by training but he was also polyglot. He made great original contributions on Ancient Indian History. Does this surprise anybody?
Satbir Singh ( talk) 23:22, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
For some information on "Kamboj Yugan de Aar-paar" (Punjabi) i.e The Kambojas Through the Ages, See Link: [3]. The book was written in Punjabi language, and the references cited in the text are from the most notable scholar community. The reviews for the book appeared in The Tribune published Chandigarh and Hindi newspapers published from Jullundur. The book really contains a well researched information from ancient Sanskrit and Pali texts. It is indeed good work to cite on Kambojas.
Also, i am removing the irrelevant tag unless some specifically points out theinappropriate or misinterpreted citations in the article. Itsmejudith, you do your best to clean-up the article, but if you try to delete any relevant information on the Kambojs, I will sure restore it back.
Satbir Singh ( talk) 05:52, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
There were several reviews of these books in news papers in Tribune and some papers published from Jullundur/Punjab. Currently I do not have any reviwe handy with me.
But go ahead with your clean-up efforts. We will see if your cleaned-up version makes better sense than what you deem a messy information-loaded article. But since you admit of not knowing much of the scholarly information available as primary sources on Kambojas, so if you trip somewhere, rest assure I will raise you up.
Cheers!
Satbir Singh ( talk) 13:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
I have started a discussion about this source on the reliable sources noticeboard. Please contribute there. Itsmejudith ( talk) 16:48, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Beginning to absorb what is behind this Kamboja-mania exhibited by Satbir, I think we are looking at a number of recent publications by Punjabi authors, probably people of Kamboj families infected by the family-research virus. The WP:SYNTH presented by Satbir appears to eventually boil down to
Because of the insane online pushing of these titles (by what I must assume is Satbir's work, or that of his associates; this all smells strongly of WP:COI), it is by now futile to google these titles on the web. Google books doesn't return any hits for either title. Until some sort of positive justification of these titles as WP:RS, we safely can, and should, ignore them, and remove them from article space. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dbachmann ( talk • contribs)
Oh my Gosh, these few F* ignorant self-styled Wikipedia Administrators who are not even remotely conversant with the Kamboj people and their history are overly asserting themselves to be the sole arbitrators and judges on the Kamboj history and are trying to steer the Wikipedia simply by virtue of the fact that they have, by hook or crook, become the self-styled administrators of the Wikipedia!!!!!.
For the sake of these jahl ignorant self-styled adminstrators, the title Prācīna Kamboja, jana aura janapada: "Ancient Kamboja, people and country" by Dr (Prof) J. L. Kamboja of Delhi University is listed in the Google scholar. It is undoubtedly one of the best and exaustively researched book based on ancient Sanskrit/Pali sources and numerous ancient inscriptions. It would be in the fitness of things if these few dorks first spend some time and read this title and become familiar with the basic information on the Kamboj people.
Serious scholars like Dr J. L. Kamboj, Dr M. R. Singh, Dr Vidyallankara, Dr H. C. Raychaudhury, B. N. Mukerjee etc have plodded through numerous ancient literary (Sanskrit/Pali) as well inscriptional sources and presented numerous new and original hither-to unexplored facts on the Kambojas, not previously presented by any other European writers or scholars. But this new factual information on Kamboj is indeed causing serious stomach flue to these self-styled wiki-admministrators since they are themselves virtually jahl and blank about this new information on Kamboj people and therefore want to eliminate it from the public view by the force of sheer majority of the like-minded fellow dorks. Strangely enough, these so-called Wiki-administrators do not want to digest this new and genuine information on the Kambojs simply because it is not found in the titles written in English or French by any European writers..
Come what may, I would keep trying my level best to defeat the nefarious ill-intended designs of these few fanatics and dorks.
Satbir Singh ( talk) 04:01, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
'Hello, if you can not check or verify the information on the Kamboj presented here, then accept it unless you come up with sources which clearly refute the information. Knowledge should be spread nor suppressed or eliminated.
Satbir Singh ( talk) 04:01, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Has someone come across any reliable source which determines or estimates the date of earlier presence of the Kambojas? Since which century BCE were Kamobjas believed to be living? It has only been reported that Kambojas have been mentioned in the 7th century BC texts, but no precise estimation for their existence. Ariana ( talk) 20:10, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Which provides more evidence of the origins of the Kambojas, the Mahabharata or 20th century scholars who lack any concrete proof to back up their claims? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.246.215 ( talk) 13:47, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
I've just done a major rehaul of the article. It's not perfect yet, but at least it's readable now. It still has far too many references, almost none of which are online, most are hard to find for the average reader. Do we really need ten literary references for every minor non-controversial statement? Also, ideally it should be merged with Kamboja Kingdom. That article is in a terrible state as well, in fact it's hard to decide what to keep from it.-- Joostik ( talk) 19:40, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
There is a possible connection between the Kambojas and the Pashtuns (Afghans), Ive found various mentions on the etymology of "Afghan" that is derives from "Ashvaka", however this claim is not propounded by linguists so Im not sure if I should include it — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scythian Saka ( talk • contribs) 09:43, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
as kamboja country is there on many maps like when we search- Pala_Empire_(Dharmapala), or Map_of_Vedic_India, etc.
so pls update it as kamboja country's map as its not updated properly so its not very easy to find out.
14.98.136.141 ( talk) 20:03, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Not done: Please express your request in a 'please change X to Y' manner and provide
reliable sources for any factual changes. Thanks,
Celestra (
talk)
00:39, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
@ Sitush:, Why you are deleting Good Reference Article + Templates & Tag 2 times 06:40, 26 April 2015 . you reason is (Please see WP:RS and note that Raj sources are not reliable) but in whole article raj source not present. Bongan ( talk) 12:16, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
This article should be merged with ||Cophen Campaign|| article. This should be considered and reviewed — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Oranjin6 (
talk •
contribs)
15:49, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Please note this old discussion. - Sitush ( talk) 07:17, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
When going through this article I noticed a plethora of references to primary sources without secondary sources to back up the citation used. This time period was very early BCE so it may be hard to dissect resources from the era, but more secondary sources of experts in the field should be used to help build the accuracy of the primary sources. I also noticed throughout that some citations don't verify the text. I am now going to go through and verify sources cited to see which are primary and secondary and locate sources to help the misinterpreted citations become accurate and not lone primary sources. Gas736 ( talk) 01:40, 27 September 2017 (UTC)Gas736
Is Rajapura current day Rajauri? Because Rajauri located on the east side of Gandhara region, but the maps here show Kamboja on the west side of Gandhara — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.98.145.38 ( talk) 16:04, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
as i read and go true about the kamboja and tribes name kahmoi, i strongly NOT agree when the team and scientis refer kamboja kindom is Iran and Iranian. but here i would like to inform the team know and understand that Kamboja is Cambodia - Kindom of Wonder where we can see Angkor Wat. tample which build for god Siva,Vishnu and Brahma. the great tamples which been build by the great empror with refering to Mahabaratha and Ramayana epic and people in Cambodia call them self Khmer which much more same to Kahmoi.
i hope we still need to do update on this matter which have beed publish before
thanabs..
200k of material removed from the article has been deposited at Talk:Kambojas/removed. 03:17, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
Khmer and kahmoi certainly seem plausible. No references but ya, ia, lia, nia an ria are added to country names if you look around. And the old name of Cambodia was Kampuchea or kambojya --> root Kamboj. The rulers of Cambodia Bormon or Varmans. From this article, one king of Kamboja was King Srindra Varmana Kamboj <-- a Bormon or Varman king.[34] Now what is also interesting is that there was a country called KamRup or Kamarupa (modern Assam) where Kam refers to a deity called Kam or Kama just adjacent to where the Kamboj kingdom existed in northwestern Bengal in the historic period. The rulers of Kamrup were Bormons as were old rulers of Bengal and Orissa etc. Novo24 ( talk) 15:34, 6 October 2019 (UTC) NOVO
The word Darya or Doria or Dorya in Hindi and Bangla (Bengali) means 'river'. So Amu Darya River when translated would be Amu River River. That is a bit funny. I suppose this is accepted... but it is redundant. Bangla & English Dictionary and Grammar
collinsdictionary.com Hindi to English -- Novo24 ( talk) 15:54, 6 October 2019 (UTC)NOVO
"The Kambojas are also described as a royal clan of the Sakas.[8]"
The Sakas were Scythian [ [4]] and they are mentioned separately by Valmiki: "There are references to the hordes of the Sakas, Yavanas, Kambojas, and Pahlavas in the Bala Kanda of the Valmiki Ramayana." as written in the "Migrations" section.
So how can the Kambojas be Saka as stated in the "Ethnicity and language" section and also be different from the Sakas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Novo24 ( talk • contribs) 17:37, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
"The royal family of the Kamuias mentioned in the Mathura Lion Capital are believed to be linked to the royal house of Taxila in Gandhara.[50]" appears suddenly and is an orphan. There is no relation to the preceding sentence or the one following it.
And about the Kamuias mentioned in the Mathura Lion Capital --> Aiyasi Kamuia was the wife of the king of the country. The rulers were not Kamuias as the sentence may suggest. This queen was the "daughter of Kharahostes" <-- Kharosti?
If Kamuia is taken to be a form of Kamboja it is important to note that the inscriptions there are not in Sanskrit but Prakrit and the prakrit text was written in Kharosti script. Remember she was the daughter of kharahostes.
Kamuias-- Novo24 ( talk) 18:02, 6 October 2019 (UTC)NOVO
Who are kumuda why in this article. Kumuda are in pamir region and are not connected to kamboj people. There was a king named Narayana of Kumadh who allied with chaghan khuda and bukhar khuda against arab in 718. This should be mentioned and it should be clarified whether there is a difference between Kumuda and Kamboja. Kumuda seem to be vedic but live in pamir badakhshan region. /info/en/?search=Principality_of_Chaghaniyan look up Narayana
Who are kumuda why in this article. Kumuda are in pamir region and are not connected to kamboj people. There was a king named Narayana of Kumadh who allied with chaghan khuda and bukhar khuda against arab in 718. This should be mentioned and it should be clarified whether there is a difference between Kumuda and Kamboja. Kumuda seem to be vedic but live in pamir badakhshan region. /info/en/?search=Principality_of_Chaghaniyan look up Narayana — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:582:C200:8380:C938:CBF3:C384:CAF8 ( talk) 17:56, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Hey, the area inhabited by the Kambojas is nowhere near "northwest India" and is clearly described as being west of the Khyber Pass, in the Hindu Kush mountains. That would be modern Afghanistan, not northwest India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.186.181.204 ( talk) 13:31, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
@IPs and new users, Removal like this is not justified when source(s) mention the content. See this source in which the fallen status of Kambojas are mentioned in Manusmriti along with tribes like Saks, Chinas, Yavanas, Khasas, Paundrakas, etc. Besides, note that the article is strictly about the historical Kambojas, that were a tribe of Iron Age India. The article has nothing to do with modern people bearing that surname of belonging to the caste. Discuss here and gain WP:CONSENSUS. - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 10:01, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 10:38, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Gas736.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
A massive clean up is required - language will have to be made simple and duplicate references and free flow style of presentation will have to be removed. Sections will have to renamed and several other things.... I am trying for one or two smaller sections. In case, any one donot want me to do cleanup in the manner I shall be doing, plz drop a message here. I will stop and step aside. Thanks.-- Bhadani 14:27, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, Bhadani and other good friends who voted to
keep the article, but suggested a clean-up and wittling it down to a reasonable size.
Also I greatly appreciate your and PHG 's efforts in cleaning up the article.
I can cut down the artcle to anysize the Wikians want it and also remove all secondary source references if suggested, but I have suggestion that the pre-clean up full-size article be preserved at some site in the Wiki-domain so that someone interested in full details of Kambojas may have an access to that.
Thanks KLS.
hello everyone interested in this task - actually here main problem is that the article size is very big than the size desired by wikipedia. A lot of references will have to be made compact. With all the materials avaiolable here a book may be prepared and placed along with the article. The size of the article may accordingly be made more compact, containing all the materials. No doubt, it is a challenging task, if not daunting. We all who are interested in this work must continue to work and exchange views. -- Bhadani 16:33, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
On May 13, 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Kambojas for a record of the discussion. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 14:59, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
To All suporters:
I am very thankful to the friends who have expressed interest in this article. This article is indeed based on original research on Kamboj people, and all the information presented here is based on primary sources or else on highly creditable secondary sources. If any reader finds some thing which he/she thinks goes against established history facts, please do write. It should be our endavor to improve this article further. Important thing is that if all vital information about the Kambojas is to be presented here, the article size could be a bit longer. If some friend can creat sub-artcles based on the sections of this article, please go ahead. We would appreciate the initiative.
Thanks again.
The references in this article don't have enough context to be useful. They need to be turned into footnotes that give full citations, or at least that use intelligible abbreviations. The talk page also contains a gratuitous amount of information. It should probably be moved to one or more subpages, and someone needs to check whether or not any of it still needs processing of some kind. -- Beland 06:29, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
It is quite clear from the two V/AfD's that the subject matter of this article is needed in this encyclopedid but it needs a lot of work. It needs a huge ammount of work. What I sugest is that we try to rewrite the article here. What we should do is slowly develop an article that wikipedia readers who do not know anything about this subject will be able to understand. Any objections? Anybody willing to help? Andreww 11:17, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks! I think we should can the rewrite idea and just go with a major clean of the page. Andreww 09:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
Before placing this nonsensical and irrelevant template here, come and discuss the information in this article from historical point of view. This is vandalusm Sze cavalry01 19:02, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
I have replied here. - Ganeshk ( talk) 07:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Dear friends,
The term Kambojayes is used for Aryan people who settled as Scythians in modern Afghanistan and Tajikistan, including parts of the ancient Marakanda(Sogdiana), Margiana (Merv) and maybe as well for Khwarezmia (Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan), Pakistan and North-West India. This people were subordinated in three groups. Their names were Kambuji or Kambojayi, Ashvakan and Kambohs. The Kambujis spoke Avestan language and were located in modern Afghanistan, the Ashvakans spoke something like Vedic (Sanscrit) and later their language developed or picked out an own stock of the indo-iranian group of the indo-iranian languages which are today known as south eastern iranian languages like Shughni, Wakhi and Pashto (Afghanic). This people were unlike their neighbours neither Hindus nor Zarathustrians but Pagans till today. The great Al-Biruni wrote about these people, including Afghans who were one of those people who were not islamized.
the term Kambuji or Kamboja was used and today is used for Persians (Tajiks and Iranians) who spoke in modern Afghanistan the Avestan language. Later some moved to west like the historica Persians of Sistan from the Aratti region (between Iran and Afghanistan) and moved to Pars.
Nuristanis belong to Ashvakans of the Kamboyayes like Afghans and Chitral people and Ormurs while Kambujis(not Kamboyayes!!) of the aryanic Kamboyayes were zoroastrians.
The Kambohs were Hindus or they converted to Hinduism because first they were mithraists like all Aryan people.
Therefore, plz. change or correct some sources here on the article. It is important to make diff. between Ashvakan Kambojayes and the Kambuji Kambojayes or Kambohs. Nuristanis do not belong to Kambujis but to Kamboyayes.
With best Regards -- 84.59.4.1 14:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
A cleanup is required here. For example, why are there over a dozen citations for one small sentence in the beginning of the second paragraph I'm not sure if it even requires one citation! Cleanup per MoS is needed. Cheers, ask123 16:51, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Dear contributor with IP address 84.59.4.1, your statements on Kambuji/Kambojayi, Ashvakan and Kambohs are quite new, confusing and also lack evidence. Please clarify and cite sources in support of your assertions. In future, please also attach your full signatures and not the IP address.
Satbir Singh ( talk) 01:20, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
This article is supposed to be about the Iron Age tribe. The kingdom is discussed at Kamboja Kingdom. The name itself at Kamboja (name). The tribe's appearance in Sanskrit literature at Kambojas in Indian literature. The modern tribe at Kamboj. All are duly linked. Avoid redundancies. See WP:SS. dab (𒁳) 16:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Satbir, please read WP:SS and WP:CFORK. There is a full article on Kambojas in Indian literature. Feel free to develop that. Do not replicate the full topic of "Kambojas in Indian literature" here. The same goes for the other sub-articles of this one. dab (𒁳) 10:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
There is a cadre of know-it-all editors who gadfly about frequent
Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard, a moderately scary project that, according to the noticeboard's talkpage, prefers to operate as a "private" discussion among self-styled "fringe" experts (one admin in particular) of whether or not all mention of entire subjects should be sent to the memory-hole en masse on grounds of being "fringe"; despite multiple calls for greater transparency, their policy remains not to inform the editors on the article talkpages concerned.
I have been lurking on that page, just waiting for them to stick their heads in way too deep. It appears they have now done so, someone has just proposed all Kambojas-related pages and templates for the usual dissection / merge job, which appears to have started already. They determined it was fringe, simply because none of them have ever heard of it, and they know nothing of the subject, therefore it must be "fringe". The great mass of cited historians and sources on this page suggests to me otherwise, however. Now I will sit back again and lurk to see how you all deal with this neanderthal "I know nothing about this, so it must be deleted as fringe" mentality.
Blockinblox (
talk)
19:19, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you 100% Blockinblox. I have noticed this particular poster *live* on the article pages that are related to hinduism., vedas and so called aryan invasion, and make reverts, edits and effectivley shutting down ANY input that is opposed to his POV. Any valid references are completley ignored. Now this poster has no fear telling us that hinduism is far from vedic religion(?) as christianity is from babylonian relgions. Thank you for enlightening us Dab, for we are ignoramuses.
Seriously, what can we do to stop this particular poster from abusing his admin rights? I am new to wiki and not yet familiar with how to go about complaining about him. Ddviticus ( talk) 03:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I have just been through the article removing the proliferation of titles (in, particular, the massive overuse of "Dr." and "Prof" to describe some writers, while no titles were given to others - some of whom had superior qualifications) as per the "Wikipedia Manual of Style" - see: [1]. In the process I made a number of other small edits - mainly spelling and grammar mistakes.
Also, it seems to me that there are a tremendous number of references - more than anyone could easily check on (even though most of them are from just a few authors). Maybe this could be cut down or condensed somehow??? Sincerely, John Hill ( talk) 03:43, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
There's a reference in the article to Pakistan Review, 1962, and a page number. Pakistan Review is, from what I can ascertain, a prominent and serious publication, although not a scholarly journal of historians. The problem is in this case that we have no article title or author. If an index is available, the page reference might resolve the issue, but I can't find one online. Can anyone help out or suggest how to proceed? Thanks. Itsmejudith ( talk) 12:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
I added a to-do list, using suggestions already on this talk page. Please discuss. In the meantime, I am starting on the task that I have listed first, i.e. checking that I can find all the sources mentioned by searching in catalogues (COPAC, Library of Congress, Amazon). Itsmejudith ( talk) 09:37, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Itsmejudith ( talk) 16:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
I also would welcome comments on any of the following, which I didn't add to the 1990s references in the bibliography, for the reasons given in the italic headings:
Can't find
Reprints or re-editions of earlier texts
Possible self-publication
Editions of traditional or ancient texts, possibly to treat as primary
If one goes through Kirpal Singh Dardi's research book "The Kambojas Through the Ages" dispassionately, one will really wonder if he (Kirpal Singh Dardi) is a Civil Engineer or else a dedicated researcher and historian.
By the way, Damodar Dharmananda Kosambi, an acknowledged Indian historian was a Mathematician and statistician by training but he was also polyglot. He made great original contributions on Ancient Indian History. Does this surprise anybody?
Satbir Singh ( talk) 23:22, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
For some information on "Kamboj Yugan de Aar-paar" (Punjabi) i.e The Kambojas Through the Ages, See Link: [3]. The book was written in Punjabi language, and the references cited in the text are from the most notable scholar community. The reviews for the book appeared in The Tribune published Chandigarh and Hindi newspapers published from Jullundur. The book really contains a well researched information from ancient Sanskrit and Pali texts. It is indeed good work to cite on Kambojas.
Also, i am removing the irrelevant tag unless some specifically points out theinappropriate or misinterpreted citations in the article. Itsmejudith, you do your best to clean-up the article, but if you try to delete any relevant information on the Kambojs, I will sure restore it back.
Satbir Singh ( talk) 05:52, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
There were several reviews of these books in news papers in Tribune and some papers published from Jullundur/Punjab. Currently I do not have any reviwe handy with me.
But go ahead with your clean-up efforts. We will see if your cleaned-up version makes better sense than what you deem a messy information-loaded article. But since you admit of not knowing much of the scholarly information available as primary sources on Kambojas, so if you trip somewhere, rest assure I will raise you up.
Cheers!
Satbir Singh ( talk) 13:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
I have started a discussion about this source on the reliable sources noticeboard. Please contribute there. Itsmejudith ( talk) 16:48, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Beginning to absorb what is behind this Kamboja-mania exhibited by Satbir, I think we are looking at a number of recent publications by Punjabi authors, probably people of Kamboj families infected by the family-research virus. The WP:SYNTH presented by Satbir appears to eventually boil down to
Because of the insane online pushing of these titles (by what I must assume is Satbir's work, or that of his associates; this all smells strongly of WP:COI), it is by now futile to google these titles on the web. Google books doesn't return any hits for either title. Until some sort of positive justification of these titles as WP:RS, we safely can, and should, ignore them, and remove them from article space. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dbachmann ( talk • contribs)
Oh my Gosh, these few F* ignorant self-styled Wikipedia Administrators who are not even remotely conversant with the Kamboj people and their history are overly asserting themselves to be the sole arbitrators and judges on the Kamboj history and are trying to steer the Wikipedia simply by virtue of the fact that they have, by hook or crook, become the self-styled administrators of the Wikipedia!!!!!.
For the sake of these jahl ignorant self-styled adminstrators, the title Prācīna Kamboja, jana aura janapada: "Ancient Kamboja, people and country" by Dr (Prof) J. L. Kamboja of Delhi University is listed in the Google scholar. It is undoubtedly one of the best and exaustively researched book based on ancient Sanskrit/Pali sources and numerous ancient inscriptions. It would be in the fitness of things if these few dorks first spend some time and read this title and become familiar with the basic information on the Kamboj people.
Serious scholars like Dr J. L. Kamboj, Dr M. R. Singh, Dr Vidyallankara, Dr H. C. Raychaudhury, B. N. Mukerjee etc have plodded through numerous ancient literary (Sanskrit/Pali) as well inscriptional sources and presented numerous new and original hither-to unexplored facts on the Kambojas, not previously presented by any other European writers or scholars. But this new factual information on Kamboj is indeed causing serious stomach flue to these self-styled wiki-admministrators since they are themselves virtually jahl and blank about this new information on Kamboj people and therefore want to eliminate it from the public view by the force of sheer majority of the like-minded fellow dorks. Strangely enough, these so-called Wiki-administrators do not want to digest this new and genuine information on the Kambojs simply because it is not found in the titles written in English or French by any European writers..
Come what may, I would keep trying my level best to defeat the nefarious ill-intended designs of these few fanatics and dorks.
Satbir Singh ( talk) 04:01, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
'Hello, if you can not check or verify the information on the Kamboj presented here, then accept it unless you come up with sources which clearly refute the information. Knowledge should be spread nor suppressed or eliminated.
Satbir Singh ( talk) 04:01, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Has someone come across any reliable source which determines or estimates the date of earlier presence of the Kambojas? Since which century BCE were Kamobjas believed to be living? It has only been reported that Kambojas have been mentioned in the 7th century BC texts, but no precise estimation for their existence. Ariana ( talk) 20:10, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Which provides more evidence of the origins of the Kambojas, the Mahabharata or 20th century scholars who lack any concrete proof to back up their claims? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.246.215 ( talk) 13:47, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
I've just done a major rehaul of the article. It's not perfect yet, but at least it's readable now. It still has far too many references, almost none of which are online, most are hard to find for the average reader. Do we really need ten literary references for every minor non-controversial statement? Also, ideally it should be merged with Kamboja Kingdom. That article is in a terrible state as well, in fact it's hard to decide what to keep from it.-- Joostik ( talk) 19:40, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
There is a possible connection between the Kambojas and the Pashtuns (Afghans), Ive found various mentions on the etymology of "Afghan" that is derives from "Ashvaka", however this claim is not propounded by linguists so Im not sure if I should include it — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scythian Saka ( talk • contribs) 09:43, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
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as kamboja country is there on many maps like when we search- Pala_Empire_(Dharmapala), or Map_of_Vedic_India, etc.
so pls update it as kamboja country's map as its not updated properly so its not very easy to find out.
14.98.136.141 ( talk) 20:03, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Not done: Please express your request in a 'please change X to Y' manner and provide
reliable sources for any factual changes. Thanks,
Celestra (
talk)
00:39, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
@ Sitush:, Why you are deleting Good Reference Article + Templates & Tag 2 times 06:40, 26 April 2015 . you reason is (Please see WP:RS and note that Raj sources are not reliable) but in whole article raj source not present. Bongan ( talk) 12:16, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
This article should be merged with ||Cophen Campaign|| article. This should be considered and reviewed — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Oranjin6 (
talk •
contribs)
15:49, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Please note this old discussion. - Sitush ( talk) 07:17, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
When going through this article I noticed a plethora of references to primary sources without secondary sources to back up the citation used. This time period was very early BCE so it may be hard to dissect resources from the era, but more secondary sources of experts in the field should be used to help build the accuracy of the primary sources. I also noticed throughout that some citations don't verify the text. I am now going to go through and verify sources cited to see which are primary and secondary and locate sources to help the misinterpreted citations become accurate and not lone primary sources. Gas736 ( talk) 01:40, 27 September 2017 (UTC)Gas736
Is Rajapura current day Rajauri? Because Rajauri located on the east side of Gandhara region, but the maps here show Kamboja on the west side of Gandhara — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.98.145.38 ( talk) 16:04, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
as i read and go true about the kamboja and tribes name kahmoi, i strongly NOT agree when the team and scientis refer kamboja kindom is Iran and Iranian. but here i would like to inform the team know and understand that Kamboja is Cambodia - Kindom of Wonder where we can see Angkor Wat. tample which build for god Siva,Vishnu and Brahma. the great tamples which been build by the great empror with refering to Mahabaratha and Ramayana epic and people in Cambodia call them self Khmer which much more same to Kahmoi.
i hope we still need to do update on this matter which have beed publish before
thanabs..
200k of material removed from the article has been deposited at Talk:Kambojas/removed. 03:17, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
Khmer and kahmoi certainly seem plausible. No references but ya, ia, lia, nia an ria are added to country names if you look around. And the old name of Cambodia was Kampuchea or kambojya --> root Kamboj. The rulers of Cambodia Bormon or Varmans. From this article, one king of Kamboja was King Srindra Varmana Kamboj <-- a Bormon or Varman king.[34] Now what is also interesting is that there was a country called KamRup or Kamarupa (modern Assam) where Kam refers to a deity called Kam or Kama just adjacent to where the Kamboj kingdom existed in northwestern Bengal in the historic period. The rulers of Kamrup were Bormons as were old rulers of Bengal and Orissa etc. Novo24 ( talk) 15:34, 6 October 2019 (UTC) NOVO
The word Darya or Doria or Dorya in Hindi and Bangla (Bengali) means 'river'. So Amu Darya River when translated would be Amu River River. That is a bit funny. I suppose this is accepted... but it is redundant. Bangla & English Dictionary and Grammar
collinsdictionary.com Hindi to English -- Novo24 ( talk) 15:54, 6 October 2019 (UTC)NOVO
"The Kambojas are also described as a royal clan of the Sakas.[8]"
The Sakas were Scythian [ [4]] and they are mentioned separately by Valmiki: "There are references to the hordes of the Sakas, Yavanas, Kambojas, and Pahlavas in the Bala Kanda of the Valmiki Ramayana." as written in the "Migrations" section.
So how can the Kambojas be Saka as stated in the "Ethnicity and language" section and also be different from the Sakas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Novo24 ( talk • contribs) 17:37, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
"The royal family of the Kamuias mentioned in the Mathura Lion Capital are believed to be linked to the royal house of Taxila in Gandhara.[50]" appears suddenly and is an orphan. There is no relation to the preceding sentence or the one following it.
And about the Kamuias mentioned in the Mathura Lion Capital --> Aiyasi Kamuia was the wife of the king of the country. The rulers were not Kamuias as the sentence may suggest. This queen was the "daughter of Kharahostes" <-- Kharosti?
If Kamuia is taken to be a form of Kamboja it is important to note that the inscriptions there are not in Sanskrit but Prakrit and the prakrit text was written in Kharosti script. Remember she was the daughter of kharahostes.
Kamuias-- Novo24 ( talk) 18:02, 6 October 2019 (UTC)NOVO
Who are kumuda why in this article. Kumuda are in pamir region and are not connected to kamboj people. There was a king named Narayana of Kumadh who allied with chaghan khuda and bukhar khuda against arab in 718. This should be mentioned and it should be clarified whether there is a difference between Kumuda and Kamboja. Kumuda seem to be vedic but live in pamir badakhshan region. /info/en/?search=Principality_of_Chaghaniyan look up Narayana
Who are kumuda why in this article. Kumuda are in pamir region and are not connected to kamboj people. There was a king named Narayana of Kumadh who allied with chaghan khuda and bukhar khuda against arab in 718. This should be mentioned and it should be clarified whether there is a difference between Kumuda and Kamboja. Kumuda seem to be vedic but live in pamir badakhshan region. /info/en/?search=Principality_of_Chaghaniyan look up Narayana — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:582:C200:8380:C938:CBF3:C384:CAF8 ( talk) 17:56, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Hey, the area inhabited by the Kambojas is nowhere near "northwest India" and is clearly described as being west of the Khyber Pass, in the Hindu Kush mountains. That would be modern Afghanistan, not northwest India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.186.181.204 ( talk) 13:31, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
@IPs and new users, Removal like this is not justified when source(s) mention the content. See this source in which the fallen status of Kambojas are mentioned in Manusmriti along with tribes like Saks, Chinas, Yavanas, Khasas, Paundrakas, etc. Besides, note that the article is strictly about the historical Kambojas, that were a tribe of Iron Age India. The article has nothing to do with modern people bearing that surname of belonging to the caste. Discuss here and gain WP:CONSENSUS. - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 10:01, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
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