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This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more non-binary people. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Many, but not all, non-binary people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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It is weird not to include Kae's support for the BDS movement in the Politics section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:C23:5D40:B400:819:E32A:994:2A85 ( talk) 13:47, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
I have moved the page to this new title of 'Kae Tempest' instead of 'Kate Tempest' to reflect the artist's recent announcement that they are now using they/them pronouns and the name 'Kae' instead of 'Kate'. 'Kate Tempest' now redirects to this page. Just making a note here so that editors can see that update. Boredintheevening ( talk) 16:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
It should be written "formely know as Kate Tempest" somewhere, and/or "born as Kate Calvert" in the biography section Puddingstud ( talk) 21:54, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
According to Loose Ends on 13.09.2014, 'Tempest' was her rap name (she was obsessed with tumult, and drama, and the sea) and she also fancied being known as Kate. After a while, the two commingled into 'Kate Tempest'. So on that evidence, no: she wasn't "Born Kate Esther Tempest". 86.29.164.82 ( talk) 22:15, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
This is entirely contradicted by the Electoral Register which lists her as "Kate E Calvert". — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Minor7Flat5 (
talk •
contribs) 14:37, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for your help and guidance. A Guardian article from 04 October 2014 may qualify as a reliable source in at least confirming her birth name as Kate Calvert.
"She was born Kate Calvert in 1985" http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/oct/04/kate-tempest-rapping-changed-my-life
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Minor7Flat5 ( talk • contribs) 16:22, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Wikidata has Kae's birthdate as 22 December 1986, while the Wikipedia article has it as 22 December 1985. Which is correct?-- User:Brainy J ✿ ( talk) 17:12, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Unedifying attempts to kvetch about gender |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Stop removing my questiom.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.22.167.199 ( talk • contribs)
Who are you to decide that? -- 31.22.167.199 ( talk) 11:12, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Her gender self identity is not irrelevant and should be stated. But the article should not be written using her self identification- -- 31.22.167.199 ( talk) 11:23, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
This is an encyclopedia not a journal. It is irrelevant what she calls herself.
|
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Please amend Kae's pronouns to they/them. 90.254.64.126 ( talk) 15:51, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Following the guidance at
MOS:NON-BINARY and similar case at
Talk:Elliot Page, I've removed the birthname from the infobx (as from what I can tell they never used their birth surname, only "Tempest"), but have added the previous notable name to the lead. If a living transgender or non-binary person was not notable under a former name (a deadname), it should not be included in any page....A living transgender or non-binary person's former name should be included in the lead sentence of their main biographical article only if they were notable under it; introduce the name with "born" or "formerly"
Spike 'em (
talk) 15:58, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
A living transgender or non-binary person's former name should be included in the lead sentence of their main biographical article only if they were notable under it; introduce the name with "born" or "formerly"– that's precisely as done ("born 22 December 1985 as Kate Esther Calvert"). So this is not a case of deadnaming and certainly not "entirely gratuitous and completely unnecessary" which inferrers nefariousness by mind-reading the intentions of other users' edits. Furthermore, you should NOT revert other edits done at the same time; so I have reverted it accordingly until discussions end here, and those separate names can be removed on their own at that stage depending on the outcome here should they need to be. Jimthing ( talk) 22:44, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
I've reverted a couple of attempts to remove their former name from the article. This seems to be being done in good faith, saying that it is a deadname, but I think this is mistaken. First up, it is not Tempest's actual deadname, although it is closely related to it. It is a stage name that they used and were notable under. (The actual full deadname was already removed and there is no valid case to include that as they were never notable under that name.) I think we have to keep the former name in the article somewhere and MOS:GENDERID suggests this should be included just once, in the opening sentence, which is exactly what we are doing here.
Do we have any reason to suspect that Tempest wants us to de-emphasise the old name any more than that? The fact that they chose a name so similar to the old one seems to suggest that they see the new name as an evolution rather than a rejection of the old one. If they did want it de-emphasised then I'd be amenable to moving it a bit further down the article but, even then, I don't think we can remove it entirely. We have the name in several of the references and we need readers to understand that this refers to the same person. We also need for anybody who searches for the old name, maybe because they came across one of their older publications (books, CDs etc), to get to this article and not be confused by the difference in the names. -- DanielRigal ( talk) 22:26, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more non-binary people. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Many, but not all, non-binary people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
![]() | This page is not a forum for general discussion about Kae Tempest. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Kae Tempest at the Reference desk. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This biographical article uses the pronouns they/them/their. |
It is weird not to include Kae's support for the BDS movement in the Politics section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:C23:5D40:B400:819:E32A:994:2A85 ( talk) 13:47, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
I have moved the page to this new title of 'Kae Tempest' instead of 'Kate Tempest' to reflect the artist's recent announcement that they are now using they/them pronouns and the name 'Kae' instead of 'Kate'. 'Kate Tempest' now redirects to this page. Just making a note here so that editors can see that update. Boredintheevening ( talk) 16:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
It should be written "formely know as Kate Tempest" somewhere, and/or "born as Kate Calvert" in the biography section Puddingstud ( talk) 21:54, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
According to Loose Ends on 13.09.2014, 'Tempest' was her rap name (she was obsessed with tumult, and drama, and the sea) and she also fancied being known as Kate. After a while, the two commingled into 'Kate Tempest'. So on that evidence, no: she wasn't "Born Kate Esther Tempest". 86.29.164.82 ( talk) 22:15, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
This is entirely contradicted by the Electoral Register which lists her as "Kate E Calvert". — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Minor7Flat5 (
talk •
contribs) 14:37, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for your help and guidance. A Guardian article from 04 October 2014 may qualify as a reliable source in at least confirming her birth name as Kate Calvert.
"She was born Kate Calvert in 1985" http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/oct/04/kate-tempest-rapping-changed-my-life
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Minor7Flat5 ( talk • contribs) 16:22, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Wikidata has Kae's birthdate as 22 December 1986, while the Wikipedia article has it as 22 December 1985. Which is correct?-- User:Brainy J ✿ ( talk) 17:12, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Unedifying attempts to kvetch about gender |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Stop removing my questiom.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.22.167.199 ( talk • contribs)
Who are you to decide that? -- 31.22.167.199 ( talk) 11:12, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Her gender self identity is not irrelevant and should be stated. But the article should not be written using her self identification- -- 31.22.167.199 ( talk) 11:23, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
This is an encyclopedia not a journal. It is irrelevant what she calls herself.
|
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please amend Kae's pronouns to they/them. 90.254.64.126 ( talk) 15:51, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Following the guidance at
MOS:NON-BINARY and similar case at
Talk:Elliot Page, I've removed the birthname from the infobx (as from what I can tell they never used their birth surname, only "Tempest"), but have added the previous notable name to the lead. If a living transgender or non-binary person was not notable under a former name (a deadname), it should not be included in any page....A living transgender or non-binary person's former name should be included in the lead sentence of their main biographical article only if they were notable under it; introduce the name with "born" or "formerly"
Spike 'em (
talk) 15:58, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
A living transgender or non-binary person's former name should be included in the lead sentence of their main biographical article only if they were notable under it; introduce the name with "born" or "formerly"– that's precisely as done ("born 22 December 1985 as Kate Esther Calvert"). So this is not a case of deadnaming and certainly not "entirely gratuitous and completely unnecessary" which inferrers nefariousness by mind-reading the intentions of other users' edits. Furthermore, you should NOT revert other edits done at the same time; so I have reverted it accordingly until discussions end here, and those separate names can be removed on their own at that stage depending on the outcome here should they need to be. Jimthing ( talk) 22:44, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
I've reverted a couple of attempts to remove their former name from the article. This seems to be being done in good faith, saying that it is a deadname, but I think this is mistaken. First up, it is not Tempest's actual deadname, although it is closely related to it. It is a stage name that they used and were notable under. (The actual full deadname was already removed and there is no valid case to include that as they were never notable under that name.) I think we have to keep the former name in the article somewhere and MOS:GENDERID suggests this should be included just once, in the opening sentence, which is exactly what we are doing here.
Do we have any reason to suspect that Tempest wants us to de-emphasise the old name any more than that? The fact that they chose a name so similar to the old one seems to suggest that they see the new name as an evolution rather than a rejection of the old one. If they did want it de-emphasised then I'd be amenable to moving it a bit further down the article but, even then, I don't think we can remove it entirely. We have the name in several of the references and we need readers to understand that this refers to the same person. We also need for anybody who searches for the old name, maybe because they came across one of their older publications (books, CDs etc), to get to this article and not be confused by the difference in the names. -- DanielRigal ( talk) 22:26, 2 December 2022 (UTC)