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Per the {{merge}} tags, I propose that the Allen West (prisoner), Clarence Anglin, John Anglin, and Frank Morris articles be merged into this article. 58.8.1.199 ( talk) 14:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Merge. No one cares about these people for anything other than their escape attempt. Vidor ( talk) 15:16, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't think they should because they pulled off the most gutsy and smartest way to escape the prison with the biggest prison security. They should get their own wiki page. NO MERGE! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Milkatron ( talk • contribs) 23:27, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I agree. They should not be merged because they are a part of history, and quite possibly (I personally think most probably) pulled off the greatest escape in American history. Do NOT merge!!!!
Vyselink (
talk) 18:55, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Please do not merge the pages. I was interested in Frank Morris and found this page as a link, but sometimes research only calls for a specific name and one needs to move on. It would be hampering to me (and I suspect others) to have to comb through an entire related story to find one piece of information.
Thank you, Lois Armstrong Shuck- frequent user of Wikipedia. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
96.18.187.226 (
talk) 05:37, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
I think the pages should NOT be merged. This prisoner had a sad but substantial life, and as he was a part of the Alcatraz escape he warrants his own page. I also find this page educational, as it shows how sad some prisoners' lives still are in this supposedly enlightened society.
Martianpackets (
talk) 09:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Just because they might say the same thing. It could be in a different perspective. No Merge — Preceding unsigned comment added by NyxxxTV ( talk • contribs) 16:55, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
Agree! Do not merge these pages! Of course these pages are realated but we must separate them, besause June 1962 Alcatraz escape is only a little part of the whole biography of Frank Moris, whom we must consider as a personality.
Don't merge! They each have separate stories, they are both well-known and notable people that have their own biographies.-- HugoRain ( talk) 00:27, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Actually, you Wrong, the stolen car and Vanished from Alcatraz are socured or whatever you call it.
http://edgewest.com/films/alcatraz/
and on list of Alcatraz escape attempts
Frank Morris and the 1962 escape were examined in a 2011 National Geographic Channel program entitled "Vanished from Alcatraz". According to the newly uncovered official records discussed on the program, a raft was discovered on Angel Island with footprints leading away. Furthermore, there was also a report of a stolen car in the area that night, which could have been used by Morris and the other escapees.
Now can it be put on here? My wife and I for years been debating on whetever Morris and the Anglins made it or not and hopefully this be put on again like what other users tired to do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.23.173 ( talk) 15:49, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Bascially, in the past two decades some major substantiated evidence has come to light.
When the case was transferred from the FBI to the US Marshals (which I believe is standard protocol after a certain amount of time) all the files were examined in detail.
While the FBI never made it public, there’s 2 records stating that a RAFT WAS FOUND on Angel Island the next day, along with footprints leading away from the raft.
The general reports of no stolen cars in the area that night (it was stated by Allan West, the prisoner in on the escape attempt but couldn’t make it out of his cell on the night, that the three had planned to steal a car) are wrong. a 1955 blue Chevrolet was reported stolen, and it another possible piece of evidence, a motorist in Stockton, California (80 miles East of San Francisco) reported being forced off the road by three men in a blue Chevrolet driving at high speed)
Current consensus is that this may have been a successful escape. Please discuss here. - Location ( talk) 01:28, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
Photo is real. just look at it! A high res copy should be uploaded on the page. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
86.185.249.191 (
talk) 12:04, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
I don't know how you are missing it, DoctorJoeE, but the new source I provided most certainly does mention the farm as well as show the photo of the two men alleged to be the Anglin brothers on that farm. The text in the article states, "This image shared on the History Channel claims to shows Clarence (left) and John Anglin (right), two bank robbers who infamously escaped from Alcatraz in 1962, standing on a farm where they allegedly lived in Brazil in 1975." Please see this link for the photo and the text you claim isn't there. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 17:14, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
There was recently a very brief discussion in Talk:John Anglin#Proposed merge with Clarence Anglin that concluded that Clarence Anglin, John Anglin, and Frank Morris (prisoner) be merged to June 1962 Alcatraz escape. Unfortunately, this article and the article on Morris were not tagged. As a formality, I'm going to tag those articles and request further feedback on this page. Thanks! - Location ( talk) 03:40, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
I think that Robert Checchi does seem to deserve a place on here. Although he is rarely mentioned when it comes to the escape, Cheechi did testify to the FBI that he saw a boat in the bay that night, and that the boat should not have been there (as Alcatraz was a no-go zone for civilian or non-prison boats). The boat theory has had many alternative "suspects" for it over the years, including Bumpy Johnson (which Clarence Carnes suggested), the man who made a deathbed confession about the escape (which the daily mail talks article talks about) and recently, Fred Brizzi (as the Wideners believe). Even if the Daily Mail is an unreliable source, in my honest opinion Cheechi's exact quoted & sourced words could be added within the events' timeline of the article along with attribution, in the second paragraph of the "Investigation" section: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.100.91 ( talk) 20:23, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
Well, to be fair, the article does say he claimed. Not proof he saw it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.13.134.75 ( talk) 10:36, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
I am reverting the section that says that the Eastwood film implies that the escapees made it. Do we need this? I argue that it is unnecessary as it cannot be counted as evidence. I am also adding in other films the escape was shown in, such as the two-part 1980 TV movie: Alcatraz: The Whole Shocking Story and the 1987 horror comedy Terror on Alcatraz (1987) starring Aldo Ray. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.251.212 ( talk) 10:49, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
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this article is under construction to mention the revelations that were uncovered in a national Geographic Channel program entitled "Vanished from Alcatraz", revealed newly uncovered official records discussed on the program, a raft was discovered on Angel Island with footprints leading away. Furthermore, there was also a report of a stolen car in the area that night, which could have been used by Morris and the other escapees. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.100.50 ( talk) 23:50, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Lets see 3 people did escape, they had a perfectly viable raft and their bodies where never found. Even if you claim all where drowned and their bodies disappeared! Even if they did die they did escape Alcatraz Prison is the island only, not being on the island = escaped! Can the article be renamed accordingly? -- Apemonkey1 ( talk) 07:30, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Agreed. "Attempt" implies that the mission of the escapees failed when authorities universally allow at least the possibility that it succeeded; so long as the question of their fate remains unsettled, none can say that their project was rather attempted than completed. Theroyalrambler ( talk) 21:39, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
Disagree. "Attempt" can be successful or not, but applies in both cases. Changing the name draws conclusions that don't stand up to evidence. -- KNHaw (talk) 22:01, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
oftenin that definition? Or the very next line, the first example given:
I passed my driving test at the first attempt? Besides which, I find it laughable to suggest a successful escape ends in death. -- Pemilligan ( talk) 19:43, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
they succeededand
it's not ambiguous. I disagree with your opinions. If they lived, they succeeded; if they died, they failed. We don't know which. -- Pemilligan ( talk) 00:19, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
Curious, considering that a cursory search will reveal that it is nothing more than standard practice for articles on the present subject to be titled Alcatraz Escape. For example, one need look no further than the FBI's webpage ( https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/alcatraz-escape). Why would the FBI, of all, use a name that "draws conclusions that don't stand up to evidence" on their own public webpage for the world to see? I dare to say the name the FBI used did no such thing. What then, is it because this Wikipedia article has gone by "Alcatraz Escape Attempt" so long that the action of changing it would draw attention to itself and itself seem to imply some shift in interpretation taken? With all due respect, other than this last possibility, I cannot see the problem with what is evidently a near-universal appellation for the present topic. For what it might be worth. Theroyalrambler ( talk) 06:09, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Yes, you've pretty much hit it right on the head with your 'last possibility.' That seems reason enough. 2601:87:4400:AF2:B8E0:46B8:177A:DAC7 ( talk) 03:12, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
Paragraph 1, Sentence 1: Escape successfully carried out
Paragraph 5, Sentence 1: No evidence for success vs. failure
Benica11 ( talk) 23:41, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Bascially, in the past two decades some major substantiated evidence has come to light. When the case was transferred from the FBI to the US Marshals (which I believe is standard protocol after a certain amount of time) all the files were examined in detail. While the FBI never made it public, there’s 2 records stating that contrary to the official FBI report of the escapees' raft never being recovered, a RAFT WAS FOUND on Angel Island the day after the escape, along with footprints leading away from the raft. The general reports of no stolen cars in the area that night (it was stated by Allan West, the prisoner in on the escape attempt but couldn’t make it out of his cell on the night, that the three had planned to steal a car) are wrong. a 1955 blue Chevrolet was reported stolen, and it another possible piece of evidence, a motorist in Stockton, California (80 miles East of San Francisco) reported being forced off the road by three men in a blue Chevrolet driving at high speed)
The body that was seen floating in the bay by the Norwegian ship was believed to have came ashore at Point Reyes a week or so later. They examined the bones at this time and the proposed height of the person was an exact match to Frank Morris. (5′-7″) This body was exhumed and DNA evidence was obtained. The US Marshals were able to find a living relative of Frank Morris and compared the DNA. It was not a match. They did the same for a relative of the Anglins and it was not a match.
Everything about these sources seemed quite credible. The US Marshal in charge of the ongoing investigation is Michael Dyke, who I doubt would be involved in this research if the facts were sensationalized.
It’s interesting that the FBI didn’t admit that they had found the raft and footprints. But it’s not surprising. Alcatraz was held with great respect and I’m sure the FBI didn’t want to tarnish it’s image. Also, the FBI didn’t want to admit that the 3 could have gotten away. So they (very quickly) declared them drowned. Perhaps they also did this hoping the three would relax a bit and then become easier targets to find.
In addition, Christof Putzel, award-winning journalist and correspondent for Al Jazeera America. Paddling the same route in a replica of the makeshift raft used by the Anglins and Morris, they determined that due to the shifting tide, it is plausible that the trio could have paddled to Angel Island without a great degree of difficulty. Noting the documents mentioning a raft being found on Angel Island, and the 1955 blue cheroot being stolen, Putzel combed though hundreds of documents and discovered another report two weeks after the escape, mentioning a chevy of the same description making its way across the country over a couple months was spotted in Oklahoma with men who met the description of the escapees, a Chevy discovered in Indian, a Chevy spotted in Ohio, in South Carolina, three months after the initial escape, three men matching the description of the Anglin brothers and Frank Morris trying to acquire a hideout in the woods. Widner had to say about Morris; "in letters and conversations I've had with certain people, there's a very good indication that he left; I did kind of hear where I thought he went". Putzel went taubate brazil, where he discovered that there was a farm, called "The Farm of the Americans", and learned that residents recalled of seeing two American men rented the farm and living there from 1965 to the 1970's and discovered the nearby site of the 1975 photograph, called El Dutra, discovering similar large termite mounds similar to the one in the photo.
This convincingly give much support there were two American men living in Brazil, but it does not prove that the two men were the Anglin brothers; but regardless, this evidence is quite sufficient IMHO and needs to lend to the article being rewritten. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.8.202.63 ( talk) 22:23, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Current consensus seems to be is that this may have been a successful escape. Please discuss here.
Bascially, in the past two decades some major substantiated evidence has come to light.
When the case was transferred from the FBI to the US Marshals (which I believe is standard protocol after a certain amount of time) all the files were examined in detail.
While the FBI never made it public, there’s 2 records stating that a RAFT WAS FOUND on Angel Island the next day, along with footprints leading away from the raft.
The general reports of no stolen cars in the area that night (it was stated by Allan West, the prisoner in on the escape attempt but couldn’t make it out of his cell on the night, that the three had planned to steal a car) are wrong. a 1955 blue Chevrolet was reported stolen, and it another possible piece of evidence, a motorist in Stockton, California (80 miles East of San Francisco) reported being forced off the road by three men in a blue Chevrolet driving at high speed)
Could it be the REAL question about the Alcatraz Escape is not whether the men survived, but what happened to them in later life? Anyone?
It does seem the consensus has swung in favor of the idea that the men survived their escape gambit and went on to evade the authorities, however there still needs to be some definitive proof (preferably DNA-related) or even some follow-through on the so-called confession letter sent in recent times to the FBI (claiming to be one of the Anglins and willing to turn himself in), before the tone of the article can reflect this assumption. All of the little bits of information can collectively give that interpretation - and to be frank I get the impression their attempt was successful from just reading this article - that said I think there's a difference between the evidence itself giving this impression and the language and tone of the article reflecting it. At least three recreations of their attempt - as stated in this article - seem to point in the direction that it was actually more do-able than the authorities were willing to admit to survive the frigid waters and get to shore. (Not to mention the later attempt which did just that, with less, and in worse conditions) I think that one day we will be able to definitively say what happened that morning and afterwards, maybe sooner than we think. 2601:87:4400:AF2:B8E0:46B8:177A:DAC7 ( talk) 03:23, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
I have been doing some digging and discovered a revelation; the supposed document reveal that suggested a car was stolen, contrary to official claims, is apparently not new at all, not back in 2011, when the documents were revealed. Several newspapers actually reported it, as well as the same license plate. I have yet to find some more of them, so give me time. Or discuss this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.84.86 ( talk) 22:09, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
"Unsubstantiated reports from a TV documentary are nothing more than claims." I don't agree with your assessment. Everything in the program seemed quite credible. The US Marshal in charge of the ongoing investigation is Michael Dyke, who I doubt would be involved in the program if the facts were sensationalized. (I believe the over dramatic music and bad re-enactments are the only flaw) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.110.67.147 ( talk) 17:38, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
Article says:
First, the article plainly states that Mythbusters demonstrated a HOW that the escape was possible. Then the article states that no concrete evidence existed to prove or disprove the theory of HOW THE ESCAPE COULD HAVE SUCCEEDED. This seems contradictory. The article has said that Mythbuster demonstrated a possible HOW. Should the last sentence in the quote above be changed to say, "No concrete evidence was given to prove that the escape actually was done that way"? ( PeacePeace ( talk) 18:41, 3 June 2019 (UTC))
Donalsonville, in Seminole County, Colquitt County and Miller County are all given as the place of birth of the two Anglin brothers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.192.107 ( talk) 13:02, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Alcatraz success escape attempt. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed, Rosguill talk 18:16, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
I found several newspapers, such as Humboldt Times and San Francisco Examiner, actually reported the theft of a car, matching the story in the documents. https://newspaperarchive.com/eureka-humboldt-times-jun-13-1962-p-1/ https://www.newspapers.com/clip/23806783/the-san-francisco-examiner/ 80.47.35.39 ( talk) 13:24, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:53, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
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Per the {{merge}} tags, I propose that the Allen West (prisoner), Clarence Anglin, John Anglin, and Frank Morris articles be merged into this article. 58.8.1.199 ( talk) 14:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Merge. No one cares about these people for anything other than their escape attempt. Vidor ( talk) 15:16, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't think they should because they pulled off the most gutsy and smartest way to escape the prison with the biggest prison security. They should get their own wiki page. NO MERGE! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Milkatron ( talk • contribs) 23:27, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I agree. They should not be merged because they are a part of history, and quite possibly (I personally think most probably) pulled off the greatest escape in American history. Do NOT merge!!!!
Vyselink (
talk) 18:55, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Please do not merge the pages. I was interested in Frank Morris and found this page as a link, but sometimes research only calls for a specific name and one needs to move on. It would be hampering to me (and I suspect others) to have to comb through an entire related story to find one piece of information.
Thank you, Lois Armstrong Shuck- frequent user of Wikipedia. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
96.18.187.226 (
talk) 05:37, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
I think the pages should NOT be merged. This prisoner had a sad but substantial life, and as he was a part of the Alcatraz escape he warrants his own page. I also find this page educational, as it shows how sad some prisoners' lives still are in this supposedly enlightened society.
Martianpackets (
talk) 09:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Just because they might say the same thing. It could be in a different perspective. No Merge — Preceding unsigned comment added by NyxxxTV ( talk • contribs) 16:55, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
Agree! Do not merge these pages! Of course these pages are realated but we must separate them, besause June 1962 Alcatraz escape is only a little part of the whole biography of Frank Moris, whom we must consider as a personality.
Don't merge! They each have separate stories, they are both well-known and notable people that have their own biographies.-- HugoRain ( talk) 00:27, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Actually, you Wrong, the stolen car and Vanished from Alcatraz are socured or whatever you call it.
http://edgewest.com/films/alcatraz/
and on list of Alcatraz escape attempts
Frank Morris and the 1962 escape were examined in a 2011 National Geographic Channel program entitled "Vanished from Alcatraz". According to the newly uncovered official records discussed on the program, a raft was discovered on Angel Island with footprints leading away. Furthermore, there was also a report of a stolen car in the area that night, which could have been used by Morris and the other escapees.
Now can it be put on here? My wife and I for years been debating on whetever Morris and the Anglins made it or not and hopefully this be put on again like what other users tired to do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.23.173 ( talk) 15:49, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Bascially, in the past two decades some major substantiated evidence has come to light.
When the case was transferred from the FBI to the US Marshals (which I believe is standard protocol after a certain amount of time) all the files were examined in detail.
While the FBI never made it public, there’s 2 records stating that a RAFT WAS FOUND on Angel Island the next day, along with footprints leading away from the raft.
The general reports of no stolen cars in the area that night (it was stated by Allan West, the prisoner in on the escape attempt but couldn’t make it out of his cell on the night, that the three had planned to steal a car) are wrong. a 1955 blue Chevrolet was reported stolen, and it another possible piece of evidence, a motorist in Stockton, California (80 miles East of San Francisco) reported being forced off the road by three men in a blue Chevrolet driving at high speed)
Current consensus is that this may have been a successful escape. Please discuss here. - Location ( talk) 01:28, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
Photo is real. just look at it! A high res copy should be uploaded on the page. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
86.185.249.191 (
talk) 12:04, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
I don't know how you are missing it, DoctorJoeE, but the new source I provided most certainly does mention the farm as well as show the photo of the two men alleged to be the Anglin brothers on that farm. The text in the article states, "This image shared on the History Channel claims to shows Clarence (left) and John Anglin (right), two bank robbers who infamously escaped from Alcatraz in 1962, standing on a farm where they allegedly lived in Brazil in 1975." Please see this link for the photo and the text you claim isn't there. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 17:14, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
There was recently a very brief discussion in Talk:John Anglin#Proposed merge with Clarence Anglin that concluded that Clarence Anglin, John Anglin, and Frank Morris (prisoner) be merged to June 1962 Alcatraz escape. Unfortunately, this article and the article on Morris were not tagged. As a formality, I'm going to tag those articles and request further feedback on this page. Thanks! - Location ( talk) 03:40, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
I think that Robert Checchi does seem to deserve a place on here. Although he is rarely mentioned when it comes to the escape, Cheechi did testify to the FBI that he saw a boat in the bay that night, and that the boat should not have been there (as Alcatraz was a no-go zone for civilian or non-prison boats). The boat theory has had many alternative "suspects" for it over the years, including Bumpy Johnson (which Clarence Carnes suggested), the man who made a deathbed confession about the escape (which the daily mail talks article talks about) and recently, Fred Brizzi (as the Wideners believe). Even if the Daily Mail is an unreliable source, in my honest opinion Cheechi's exact quoted & sourced words could be added within the events' timeline of the article along with attribution, in the second paragraph of the "Investigation" section: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.100.91 ( talk) 20:23, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
Well, to be fair, the article does say he claimed. Not proof he saw it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.13.134.75 ( talk) 10:36, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
I am reverting the section that says that the Eastwood film implies that the escapees made it. Do we need this? I argue that it is unnecessary as it cannot be counted as evidence. I am also adding in other films the escape was shown in, such as the two-part 1980 TV movie: Alcatraz: The Whole Shocking Story and the 1987 horror comedy Terror on Alcatraz (1987) starring Aldo Ray. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.251.212 ( talk) 10:49, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
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this article is under construction to mention the revelations that were uncovered in a national Geographic Channel program entitled "Vanished from Alcatraz", revealed newly uncovered official records discussed on the program, a raft was discovered on Angel Island with footprints leading away. Furthermore, there was also a report of a stolen car in the area that night, which could have been used by Morris and the other escapees. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.100.50 ( talk) 23:50, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Lets see 3 people did escape, they had a perfectly viable raft and their bodies where never found. Even if you claim all where drowned and their bodies disappeared! Even if they did die they did escape Alcatraz Prison is the island only, not being on the island = escaped! Can the article be renamed accordingly? -- Apemonkey1 ( talk) 07:30, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Agreed. "Attempt" implies that the mission of the escapees failed when authorities universally allow at least the possibility that it succeeded; so long as the question of their fate remains unsettled, none can say that their project was rather attempted than completed. Theroyalrambler ( talk) 21:39, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
Disagree. "Attempt" can be successful or not, but applies in both cases. Changing the name draws conclusions that don't stand up to evidence. -- KNHaw (talk) 22:01, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
oftenin that definition? Or the very next line, the first example given:
I passed my driving test at the first attempt? Besides which, I find it laughable to suggest a successful escape ends in death. -- Pemilligan ( talk) 19:43, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
they succeededand
it's not ambiguous. I disagree with your opinions. If they lived, they succeeded; if they died, they failed. We don't know which. -- Pemilligan ( talk) 00:19, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
Curious, considering that a cursory search will reveal that it is nothing more than standard practice for articles on the present subject to be titled Alcatraz Escape. For example, one need look no further than the FBI's webpage ( https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/alcatraz-escape). Why would the FBI, of all, use a name that "draws conclusions that don't stand up to evidence" on their own public webpage for the world to see? I dare to say the name the FBI used did no such thing. What then, is it because this Wikipedia article has gone by "Alcatraz Escape Attempt" so long that the action of changing it would draw attention to itself and itself seem to imply some shift in interpretation taken? With all due respect, other than this last possibility, I cannot see the problem with what is evidently a near-universal appellation for the present topic. For what it might be worth. Theroyalrambler ( talk) 06:09, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Yes, you've pretty much hit it right on the head with your 'last possibility.' That seems reason enough. 2601:87:4400:AF2:B8E0:46B8:177A:DAC7 ( talk) 03:12, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
Paragraph 1, Sentence 1: Escape successfully carried out
Paragraph 5, Sentence 1: No evidence for success vs. failure
Benica11 ( talk) 23:41, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Bascially, in the past two decades some major substantiated evidence has come to light. When the case was transferred from the FBI to the US Marshals (which I believe is standard protocol after a certain amount of time) all the files were examined in detail. While the FBI never made it public, there’s 2 records stating that contrary to the official FBI report of the escapees' raft never being recovered, a RAFT WAS FOUND on Angel Island the day after the escape, along with footprints leading away from the raft. The general reports of no stolen cars in the area that night (it was stated by Allan West, the prisoner in on the escape attempt but couldn’t make it out of his cell on the night, that the three had planned to steal a car) are wrong. a 1955 blue Chevrolet was reported stolen, and it another possible piece of evidence, a motorist in Stockton, California (80 miles East of San Francisco) reported being forced off the road by three men in a blue Chevrolet driving at high speed)
The body that was seen floating in the bay by the Norwegian ship was believed to have came ashore at Point Reyes a week or so later. They examined the bones at this time and the proposed height of the person was an exact match to Frank Morris. (5′-7″) This body was exhumed and DNA evidence was obtained. The US Marshals were able to find a living relative of Frank Morris and compared the DNA. It was not a match. They did the same for a relative of the Anglins and it was not a match.
Everything about these sources seemed quite credible. The US Marshal in charge of the ongoing investigation is Michael Dyke, who I doubt would be involved in this research if the facts were sensationalized.
It’s interesting that the FBI didn’t admit that they had found the raft and footprints. But it’s not surprising. Alcatraz was held with great respect and I’m sure the FBI didn’t want to tarnish it’s image. Also, the FBI didn’t want to admit that the 3 could have gotten away. So they (very quickly) declared them drowned. Perhaps they also did this hoping the three would relax a bit and then become easier targets to find.
In addition, Christof Putzel, award-winning journalist and correspondent for Al Jazeera America. Paddling the same route in a replica of the makeshift raft used by the Anglins and Morris, they determined that due to the shifting tide, it is plausible that the trio could have paddled to Angel Island without a great degree of difficulty. Noting the documents mentioning a raft being found on Angel Island, and the 1955 blue cheroot being stolen, Putzel combed though hundreds of documents and discovered another report two weeks after the escape, mentioning a chevy of the same description making its way across the country over a couple months was spotted in Oklahoma with men who met the description of the escapees, a Chevy discovered in Indian, a Chevy spotted in Ohio, in South Carolina, three months after the initial escape, three men matching the description of the Anglin brothers and Frank Morris trying to acquire a hideout in the woods. Widner had to say about Morris; "in letters and conversations I've had with certain people, there's a very good indication that he left; I did kind of hear where I thought he went". Putzel went taubate brazil, where he discovered that there was a farm, called "The Farm of the Americans", and learned that residents recalled of seeing two American men rented the farm and living there from 1965 to the 1970's and discovered the nearby site of the 1975 photograph, called El Dutra, discovering similar large termite mounds similar to the one in the photo.
This convincingly give much support there were two American men living in Brazil, but it does not prove that the two men were the Anglin brothers; but regardless, this evidence is quite sufficient IMHO and needs to lend to the article being rewritten. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.8.202.63 ( talk) 22:23, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Current consensus seems to be is that this may have been a successful escape. Please discuss here.
Bascially, in the past two decades some major substantiated evidence has come to light.
When the case was transferred from the FBI to the US Marshals (which I believe is standard protocol after a certain amount of time) all the files were examined in detail.
While the FBI never made it public, there’s 2 records stating that a RAFT WAS FOUND on Angel Island the next day, along with footprints leading away from the raft.
The general reports of no stolen cars in the area that night (it was stated by Allan West, the prisoner in on the escape attempt but couldn’t make it out of his cell on the night, that the three had planned to steal a car) are wrong. a 1955 blue Chevrolet was reported stolen, and it another possible piece of evidence, a motorist in Stockton, California (80 miles East of San Francisco) reported being forced off the road by three men in a blue Chevrolet driving at high speed)
Could it be the REAL question about the Alcatraz Escape is not whether the men survived, but what happened to them in later life? Anyone?
It does seem the consensus has swung in favor of the idea that the men survived their escape gambit and went on to evade the authorities, however there still needs to be some definitive proof (preferably DNA-related) or even some follow-through on the so-called confession letter sent in recent times to the FBI (claiming to be one of the Anglins and willing to turn himself in), before the tone of the article can reflect this assumption. All of the little bits of information can collectively give that interpretation - and to be frank I get the impression their attempt was successful from just reading this article - that said I think there's a difference between the evidence itself giving this impression and the language and tone of the article reflecting it. At least three recreations of their attempt - as stated in this article - seem to point in the direction that it was actually more do-able than the authorities were willing to admit to survive the frigid waters and get to shore. (Not to mention the later attempt which did just that, with less, and in worse conditions) I think that one day we will be able to definitively say what happened that morning and afterwards, maybe sooner than we think. 2601:87:4400:AF2:B8E0:46B8:177A:DAC7 ( talk) 03:23, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
I have been doing some digging and discovered a revelation; the supposed document reveal that suggested a car was stolen, contrary to official claims, is apparently not new at all, not back in 2011, when the documents were revealed. Several newspapers actually reported it, as well as the same license plate. I have yet to find some more of them, so give me time. Or discuss this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.84.86 ( talk) 22:09, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
"Unsubstantiated reports from a TV documentary are nothing more than claims." I don't agree with your assessment. Everything in the program seemed quite credible. The US Marshal in charge of the ongoing investigation is Michael Dyke, who I doubt would be involved in the program if the facts were sensationalized. (I believe the over dramatic music and bad re-enactments are the only flaw) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.110.67.147 ( talk) 17:38, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
Article says:
First, the article plainly states that Mythbusters demonstrated a HOW that the escape was possible. Then the article states that no concrete evidence existed to prove or disprove the theory of HOW THE ESCAPE COULD HAVE SUCCEEDED. This seems contradictory. The article has said that Mythbuster demonstrated a possible HOW. Should the last sentence in the quote above be changed to say, "No concrete evidence was given to prove that the escape actually was done that way"? ( PeacePeace ( talk) 18:41, 3 June 2019 (UTC))
Donalsonville, in Seminole County, Colquitt County and Miller County are all given as the place of birth of the two Anglin brothers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.192.107 ( talk) 13:02, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Alcatraz success escape attempt. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed, Rosguill talk 18:16, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
I found several newspapers, such as Humboldt Times and San Francisco Examiner, actually reported the theft of a car, matching the story in the documents. https://newspaperarchive.com/eureka-humboldt-times-jun-13-1962-p-1/ https://www.newspapers.com/clip/23806783/the-san-francisco-examiner/ 80.47.35.39 ( talk) 13:24, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
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