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two important subject not found in Current article :
walks out is important: Julian Assange to Larry King: 'you should be ashamed',daily telegraph
'You should be ashamed': WikiLeaks boss blasts astonished Larry King after he's quizzed over sex abuse claims,dailymail:WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange lost his cool on television for the second time in three days when he was again quizzed about allegations in his private life. Lookhot ( talk) 01:23, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
in Current article :
despite that poll for Time magazine's "Person of the Year, 2010" not finished !!! Lookhot ( talk) 01:45, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
firstly : Wikipedia:Editorial discretion is a essay and not a POLICY ; Wikipedia:Verifiability is a policy :
Further information: Wikipedia:Notability'
Consensus may determine, among other things, whether a given source or claim is appropriate for article inclusion; meeting Wikipedia policies and guidelines is necessary to allow inclusion, but not necessarily sufficient to warrant inclusion
There is no single definition of what consensus means on Wikipedia, but in articles consensus is typically used to try to establish and ensure neutrality and verifiability. Lookhot ( talk) 16:00, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
On 3 June' he appeared via videoconferencing at the Personal Democracy Forum conference with Daniel Ellsberg.[57][58] Ellsberg told MSNBC "the explanation he [Assange] used" for not appearing in person in the USA was that "it was not safe for him to come to this country."[59] On 11 June he was to appear on a Showcase Panel at the Investigative Reporters and Editors conference in Las Vegas,[60] but there are reports that he cancelled several days prior.[61] On 10 June 2010, it was reported that Pentagon officials are trying to determine his whereabouts.. On 21 June 2010, Assange took part at a hearing in Brussels, Belgium, appearing in public for the first time in nearly a month. Lookhot ( talk) 17:41, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
This source has a quote from Julian Assange "I grew up in a Queensland country town where people spoke their minds bluntly. They distrusted big government as something that could be corrupted if not watched carefully. The dark days of corruption in the Queensland government before the Fitzgerald inquiry are testimony to what happens when the politicians gag the media from reporting the truth," he wrote in the hours before his arrest yesterday.
"These things have stayed with me. WikiLeaks was created around these core values. The idea, conceived in Australia, was to use internet technologies in new ways to report the truth."
The era he was referring to was notorious for it's police and government corruption and abuse of the media - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitzgerald_Inquiry. Of note is episode where the Queensland Premier Sir Joh Bjelke-Peterson insulted his friend businessman Alan Bond, owner of News 9, which resulted in a libel suit, the outcome of which was a $400,000 settlement paid to Sir Jon. This is widely accepted as being a money laundering scheme to cover bribes paid the Bjelke-Peterson by developer Alan Bond to enable him to do business in Queensland. - "He purchased QTQ-9, Brisbane and settled an outstanding defamation dispute the station had with the Queensland premier, Joh Bjelke-Petersen by paying out AUD$400,000. He said in a television interview several years later that he paid because "Sir Joh left no doubt that if we were going to continue to do business successfully in Queensland then he expected the matter to be resolved". - http://wapedia.mobi/en/Alan_Bond_(businessman)
This seems to be some important background information that would have shaped Julian Assange's world view. 98.208.12.203 ( talk) 14:48, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Should something of this be in the article? -- John ( talk) 14:58, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
This phrase is linked to Hate speech, which is editorializing. Link should be removed. 67.252.54.152 ( talk) 20:49, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
Please amend the following (Alleged sex offences):
On 20 August 2010, an investigation was opened against Assange and an arrest warrant issued in Sweden in connection with sexual encounters with two women, named Anna Ardin and Sophia Wilen, aged 31 and 26. Ardin had invited Assange to stay with her at her apartment in Enkoping, and they engaged - according to Ardin's Twitter feed - in consensual sex. Assange then met Wilen, and again engaged, according to Wilen, in consensual sex. However Wilen then learned of Assange's relationship with Ardin. (Both women knew each other through membership of the Swedish Christian Social Democrat Party. Ardin served as the Party's press secretary). Ardin and Wilen then went together to the police station at Klara, a suburb of Stockholm, to seek information about their encounter with Assange. (Seeking information is a Swedish juridical formula for opening a police enquiry without risk of being branded a false informant). The two women then telephoned Niklas Svensson at the Swedish tabloid, Expressen, to report what had happened.
The Swedish police passed news of their visit to deputy prosecutor Maria Kjellstrand, who notified prosecutor Eva Finne. Finne dismissed the matter as groundless. However Ardin and Wilen, with backing from Expressen, engaged lawyer Claes Bergstroem to represent them. Bergstroem approached Swedish Director of Prosecutions Marianne Ny, whom he knew well, and who had been evolving a new legal concept of sexual molestation based solely on accusatory testimony. (In accusatory testimony an offence is deemed to have taken place unless an accused can prove the contrary). Ny then commenced court action.
Sweden's Prosecuting Authority then applied to Stockholm District Court to detain Assange for questioning. On 20 November, Sweden's National Criminal Police force issued an international arrest warrant for Assange via Interpol, and an EU arrest warrant was issued through the Schengen Information System. This warrant was passed to the authorities in the UK, but jercted by them on the grounds that it was too imprecise. (It is interesting to note that the grounds for an accusation of sexual coercion are not clearly defined in Swedish law, and that Assange was consequently only summoned to appear before an investigating magistrate, rather than charged with a defined criminal offence. There is some argument as to whether loosely defined sexual coercion can actually rank as a cross border European criminal offence, and also whether an European Arrest Warrant can be enforced when a person is merely wanted for questioning, rather than accused of a criminal offence).
The Swedish authories then issued a new warrant, and Assange was arrested in London on 7 December 2010. He appeared before Westminster County Court, and was remanded to a superior court capable of ruling on the intricacies of the matter. He will appear in court again on 14 December 2010. Beaunic ( talk) 21:22, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Is it appropriate to note that the notice was not a typical notice with respect to the desired conditions of imprisonment given in the red notice? It is unreasonable in my opinion for a modern society to hold any alleged criminals "incommunicado without access to lawyers" [1]. Ansell 03:37, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
This section is not really about this persons life and should really be elsewhere. Considering that Wikileaks has its own article the whole of the wikileaks section has become excessively bloated and requires trimming to about a quarter of what is there now. Off2riorob ( talk) 11:20, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
Hi, NTV (MSNBC's partner organisation in Turkey) has publicly disclosed that the 2 women are AA and SW on their website [ from Turkey -- and S--]. My question is as follows : What is Wikipedia's policy on making names of persons appear in their articles once these persons have been freely quoted on internet websites of mainstream media ? Sometimes I see there are articles where persons are quoted directly by their name and even occupation and at other times this info is redacted. So, I am confused. The Wikipedia 'policy section' is rather vague on this an eit appears to be that this is left to the discretion of the writer. Or is it ? Thanks for an answer and please don't flame me ... the question is sincerely genuine. Natobxl 17:10, 10 December 2010 (CET)
In the lead we politely identify Assange as a computer scientist, but wasn't he slightly better known for the hacking exploits that led to early trouble with authorities. I don't particularly care about advertising these, but it seems like a bit of a whitewash to use the CS term, particularly when his roots to the hacktivist community began with his early online activities. Thoughts? (I'd be happy to dig up sources, though I've seen the hacking issue described all around). Ocaasi ( talk) 17:33, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
This section header is a recipe for any old valueless addition or soapboxing to be added, I have remove this twice today but its again been replaced. This is the guys BLP not a soapbox for such irrelevant comments that belong either on Putins article or somewhere else, the trash bin in my opinion. Filling up the article with such dribble weakens the worthwhile content.
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said that Assange's arrest indicated that the West's criticism (of Russia’s record concerning democracy) is hypocritical. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/wikileaks-backers-threaten-more-cyber-attacks/article1832334/
If thats not soapboxing and irrelevant to this persons life story I don't know what is and from a person who would have certainly silenced him if he was in Russia. Off2riorob ( talk) 20:01, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There is a dispute as to whether the lead of Julian Assange should mention that Sweden has issued an arrest warrant for him. The suggested sentence is (or words to this effect):
Assange has also come to public attention over allegations of sexual assault made by two women in Sweden. An international arrest warrant was issued for him on 19 November 2010 by a Swedish prosecutor on charges of rape, sexual molestation, and unlawful coercion. He has denied the allegations." [1]
Should this be included or not? SlimVirgin talk| contribs 06:45, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
The article reads:
Perhaps it should be mentioned it clearly seemed to be a terrible and tasteless [possibly criminal] joke, rather than a real threat?
He appologized for the "joke" the next day. He also said that he never “seriously intended to advocate or propose the assassination of Mr. Assange.” http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2010/12/04/let-flanagans-remarks-die/
I think the "joke" may have been just that, but it may also have been a serious comment. There is nothing definative about the comments made by Flanagan that suggest he was making a joke (bar the "manly" comment, which could very well be backpeddaling). It sounds to me like a politician trying to boost an approval rating an misjudging public opinion. His appology should be mentioned though. -- Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] ( talk) 14:39, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I do not believe the fact that Assange is in the running for person of the year belongs in the article, and I removed it once but it has since been re-added. For me, it would be better to wait until he wins it before adding it. What do others think? -- John ( talk) 21:18, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Assange's exploits have cemented him as a candidate for TIME's 2010 Person of the Year -- so much so that past TIME 100 honores went out on a limb to explain why he was their choice. "For better or for worse, Julian Assange has changed the accessibility to knowledge of the two wars that involve the U.S., within a matter of months," said Lauren Zalaznick, president of NBC Universal Women and Lifestyle Entertainment Networks. "He has also put journalistic integrity on a knife-blade edge: What is the responsibility of the journalist to make public or keep private?" [8]
Nonsense; it's trivial information placed before the end of voting. You can't support that by saying sources find it significant then failing to address that in the article, it is the burden of editorship. The content is just valueless at this time, we are mostly agreed on that. Warring it in doesn't really change that. -- Errant ( chat!) 15:27, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
<Undent> I previously removed this Time Magazine stuff from the lead, but deliberately left it in the "Award Section". I continue to think that's a good compromise (assuming it doesn't go anywhere else like in the infobox). You all do realize --- don't you? --- that this is a silly conversation given that it will soon be moot seeing as how the magazine will soon make a decision. Surely, if he doesn't get it, we would not mention that some hope he might. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 00:30, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
I've removed it. Consensus here seems to be against it. I agree with that. If he wins it, that's he wins it is important - not the fact he was winning it a week before. If he doesn't win it - it is also trivia. The fact he's in the lead now just isn't important. It's trivia and even then it's only interesting for this one week (see WP:NOTNEWS - especially when we know this "news" has no lasting significance).-- Scott Mac 00:58, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/06/07/100607fa_fact_khatchadourian?currentPage=5 (page 5 onwards) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.185.243.170 ( talk) 19:14, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
According to the Australian Electoral Roll, the Assange family lived in the Melbourne suburb of Upwey from 1987 to 1994. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Itemroad2 ( talk • contribs) 08:28, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Assange has been (still is?) a member of the FreeBSD and especially the NetBSD community. He also contributed some slogans for its fortune file. http://www.lemis.com/grog/diary-dec2010.php#8 -- Athaba ( talk) 20:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
I think much of this content belongs in this BLP because it is specifically praising Assange himself. Right now it's all in the Wikileaks article. Would it be reasonable to transfer it over here or cut and paste it for here and leave it there as well? Surely it belongs here as much or more than there. Right now there is an unintentional pov fork in effect by ommitting all of this praise from Assange's BLP. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 02:58, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Brazil: President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva expressed his "solidarity" with Julian Assange following Assange's 2010 arrest in the United Kingdom. [1] [2] He further criticised the arrest of Julian Assange as "an attack on freedom of expression". [3]
Ecuador: In late November 2010 a representative of the government of Ecuador made what was, apparently, an unsolicited public offer to Julian Assange to establish residency in Ecuador. Deputy Foreign Minister Kinto Lucas stated "we are going to invite him to come to Ecuador so he can freely present the information he possesses and all the documentation, not just on the Internet, but in various public forums." [4] Lucas went on to state his praise for WikiLeaks and Assange calling them "[people] who are constantly investigating and trying to get light out of the dark corners of [state] information." [5] The following day, however, president Rafael Correa distanced his administration from the offer stating that Lucas had been speaking for himself and not on the government's behalf. Correa then criticised Assange for "breaking the laws of the United States and leaking this type of information." [6]
Russia: In December 2010 the office of Russian president Dmitry Medvedev issued a statement calling on non-governmental organisations to consider "nominating [Julian] Assange as a Nobel Prize laureate." The announcement followed commentary by Russian ambassador to NATO Dmitry Rogozin who stated that Julian Assange's earlier arrest on Swedish charges demonstrated that there was "no media freedom" in the west. [7]
United Nations: In December 2010 United Nations Special Rapporteur for Freedom of Opinion and Expression Frank LaRue stated he agreed with the idea that Julian Assange was a "martyr for free speech." LaRue went on to say Assange or other WikiLeaks staff should not face legal accountability for any information they disseminated, noting that, "if there is a responsibility by leaking information it is of, exclusively of the person that made the leak and not of the media that publish it. And this is the way that transparency works and that corruption has been confronted in many cases." [8] High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay subsequently voiced concern at the revelation that private companies were being pressured by states to sever their relationships with WikiLeaks. [9] Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 02:58, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
When one looks at this BLP objectively, it is obvious that an unintentional POV fork has occurred,wherein most of the praise for the Subject of the BLP, Assange, even praise by Heads of State (see above) has been ommitted, yet is present within the WikiLeaks article. Conversely, this BLP's "Release of United States diplomatic cables" section and the "Reactions to Leaking" section probably have 2/3rds+ negative content and contain very little information which is Assange specific. That content more properly belongs in the Wikileaks article. Right now it looks like a complete rewrite is in order, it seems to me. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 03:24, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Julian_Assange&oldid=401768328#Reactions_to_leaking
Assange reportedly could have avoided the women contacting authorities by submitting to STD testing. reference: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/report-assange-rape-case-sparked-std-fears/ Can anyone else find a more reliable source? Aaronchall ( talk) 05:49, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
I also am finding myself wondering about the Alleged sex crimes section but not regarding its current composition which I think has been made to be quite good and NPOV . I started remembering another BLP I worked on where the issue was whether or not to include accusations of crimes when no charges had been laid. The consensus was "no". Assange's lawyer was on CNN last night saying that no charges at all have been laid as yet, and, in fact, the actual accusations themselves are not defined. That ,in effect,he's being held for questioning at this point in time. His lawyer painted a confinement for Assange that looks a bit Kafkaesque. I guess what I'm suggesting is that until defined criminal charges are laid that the event be summarized in 3 or 4 sentences. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 14:07, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Clearly the sexual claims is a little bloated at this time, although has been kept neutral and pretty well in line with policy, difficult to trim more but in a few days it will be clear, the details of the extradition or not will be released on the 14th I think he is back in court, extradition is only allowed for charges not investigation. Clearly it is easier to request a red note arrest than it is to action the extradition. With this being a hugely high profile case the UK will want to see some details and will need convincing of the legal claims to hand him over. Off2riorob ( talk) 15:24, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
I have moved the section to a new article as it was quite long. I know this had been discussed here in the past. I did not change much. Simply a copy paste job. But hopefully this will clear up some of the issues of "what should be included HERE?" ... Tim.thelion ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:20, 11 December 2010 (UTC). OK Off2riorob reverted my edit imediatly. The page I had created was Assange sex charges and trial not really sure what to do now. Please say more Off2riorob... Tim.thelion ( talk)
The Wiki article states that an "international" arrest warrant was issued against Assange. Was it a European Arrest Warrant? I think you are drawing too much information from US and Australian media who are writing on the basis of their familiarity with their own legal systems and procedures and not from a European position. If it is an EAW, then it does matter a lot that the alleged events occurred in Sweden (an EU member state), that the person involved is not an EU citizen and not even an EU resident but a third country national with residence outside the EU, that a UK judge (i.e. a judge from another EU member state) deals with all this, and the whole lot happens within the context of not only two national European jurisdictions but also European Union legislation. KathaLu ( talk) 16:07, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
It was an Interpol red note, arrest and hold with a view to extradition, it will need a European extradition to move him to Sweden. Off2riorob ( talk) 16:41, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
This has just been added, its complete twaddle, valueless bloat. Off2riorob ( talk) 17:24, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg said that Assange "is serving our [American] democracy and serving our rule of law precisely by challenging the secrecy regulations, which are not laws in most cases, in this country." On the issue of national security considerations for the U.S. regarding Wikileaks's publication of American diplomatic cables, Ellsberg added that "He’s obviously a very competent guy in many ways. I think his instincts are that most of this material deserves to be out. We are arguing over a very small fragment that doesn’t. He has not yet put out anything that hurt anybody’s national security". [1] An editorial in the Sydney Morning Herald by Bryce Lowry described Assange as "the Ned Kelly of the digital age" comparing him to a bushranger who defied colonial authorities in Australia in the nineteenth century. [2] An editorial in China's Beijing Daily, a publication of the Beijing city government, suggested that this year’s Nobel Peace Prize not be given to the Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo but to Julian Assange. [3]
That section is again overlarge and has two main article which are already linked to, I am going to trim it in half. Off2riorob ( talk) 17:26, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
This additional government created "throw enough mud against the wall and some of it will stick" attack is not worthy of inclusion at all. Just because a U.S. Government person makes an accusation doesn't make it notable. This entire little section should go out of this BLP. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 17:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Assange's attorneys in the U.K. and Sweden have been making a song and dance about Assange's willingness to be interviewed by the Swedish authorities in London. They claimed that "an arrest warrant was unnecessary, as Assange was always willing to face questioning in a Swedish embassy abroad or via telephone or video link". But "lead Swedish prosecutor Marianne Ny" told TIME earlier this week "that an arrest warrant was issued because Swedish law prohibits formal legal interviews over a telephone or via a video link". Again, I think this is an important point because a British reader (don't know about the USA) is not aware of such vital differences between jurisdictions / legal systems. KathaLu ( talk) 20:48, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
This is kind of dubious. While the lawyers are obviously spinning the story to their client's advantage, the prosecutor is also misleading: prior to the warrant, it would have been possible to question Assange 'informally' via telephone, video link, or at the Swedish Embassy in London. Further, there is a serious legal question here - whether a state may demand someone appear in person to face questioning, at their own expense, which is outside the Assange article. Given the lack of 'dual crimininality' on the alleged offenses, the other issue is whether Assange's efforts to answer questions while remaining in England satisfied English standards of 'reasonable'. Your comment is objective, but if Ny's comment is to be included for balance, then it too needs additional background, from someone more familiar with the current legal controversy. Again, a bit of time may bring clarity to the issues. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Geek 29A ( talk • contribs) 17:37, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
User mr grant evens 2 has again removed the sex allegations section even though it is only a redirect after the discussion at the BLPN. All the sexual content has been removd and more look how good mr assange has been added by this user, it seems like a promotional push. Off2riorob ( talk) 22:54, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
The redirect goes nowhere. So now the page doesn't include anything about the alleged crimes. Would someone who knows more about Mediawiki than me please restore whatever material about the crimes has been deleted. Huckfinne ( talk) 23:02, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
He has also Cut and copy duplicate support content from wikileaks article this support section is cut and copy duplicate from wikileaks article Off2riorob ( talk) 23:10, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Interesting Guardian article from 2008 (!) about the consequences of the introduction of the European Arrest Warrant and the increase of such warrants for minor offences that, in the UK, are dealt with by the City of Westminster magistrates court, which handles all extradition hearings. Many of these offences were so minor that they would lead to either a caution or no investigation at all in England and Wales. So contrary to what we are being told or what is widely believed, Assange's case is far from unique in this respect. More in Door thief, piglet rustler, pudding snatcher: British courts despair at extradition requests KathaLu ( talk) 23:12, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Regarding "US State Department spokesman Philip J. Crowley objected to the description of Assange as a journalist,[87] and also stated that the US State Department does not regard WikiLeaks as a legitimate media organization" Are we really at the point where a government's opinion as to the definition of "journalist" or "legitimate" news organiztion is notable? Will we be also including State Dept. movie reviews at academy awards time? I don't think the US State dept. spokesman's opinion about someone's journalism skills is any more notable than the opinion of any editor here on that topic and it should be excluded from this BLP. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 13:37, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
In reading thoroughly the daily press briefing used as a source for P.J.Crowley's statements referred to in the topic above , I see these contents which may belong in this article: "Mr, Crowley:Mr. Assange obviously has a particular political objective behind his activities, and I think that, among other things, disqualifies him as being considered a journalist. QUESTION: What is his political objective? MR. CROWLEY: Well, his – I mean he could be considered a political actor. I think he’s an anarchist, but he’s not a journalist. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 16:25, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
I think calling someone a "terrorist" or "enemy combatant" is actually a thinly veiled death threat, because if you are one, you can be killed on the battlefield without due process. So anyone who calls Assange a terrorist or enemy combatant is actually calling for him to be "taken out". Don't you think? I haven't heard of any terrorists or enemy combatants being served an arrest warrant and being taken into custody. Ghostofnemo ( talk) 01:02, 13 December 2010 (UTC) An editor moved quotes calling Assange a "terrorist" and an "enemy combatant" out of the "Calls for death" section and into the "Criticism" section. Ghostofnemo ( talk) 02:50, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Ghostofnemo, your opinion that 'calling someone a "terrorist" ... is actually a thinly veiled death threat' is just that, an opinion, until you can provide sources that state otherwise. Unless you provide such sources, this topic is closed. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 03:54, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I don't understand the reasoning behind this edit. I checked out the source and that sentence is appropriately representing it. How is it a "clear BLP violation"? Silver seren C 06:09, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
For the relevant BLP violation, see [11]. Everything after the first two paragraphs in that section is just careless quote farming for the sake of sensationalism, and hardly qualifies as: presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone. aprock ( talk) 06:33, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I can see the point that Ghostofnemo is putting across and can agree with it in some respects but not completely. yes there is no doubt that some people calling Assange a "terrorist" are inciting violence and would like to see him excecutted (as a few US and even Canadian politicians have openly stated in interviews). However, I think that the person who added the phrases probably dosn't have their intentions in a death threat and is just trying to convey the opinion of Assange from a US perspective (something which shouldn't really be done at any rate, in the interests of combating bias). The words "Terrorist" and "Enemy Combatant" However, are too loaded for Wikipeadia I feel and shouldn't be used here. -- Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] ( talk) 14:31, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
This is besides the point. I saw here that there are people in fox news, a person in the canadian government, who call for his immediate assasination. These are definately death threats, not critisism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.110.61 ( talk) 03:13, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
I've removed:
The content is sourced to two articles: Washington Times and dcist. My concern is that the Washington Times article, as it stands now, does not specifically call for the death of Assange. It does have a provocative title, "Assassinate Assange?" and concludes with "If that's true, we should treat Mr. Assange the same way as other high-value terrorist targets", but I can't see anything which clearly calls for his death. The dcist article does think Kuhner calls for Assange's death, and quotes the article as saying "If that's true, we should treat Mr. Assange the same way as other high-value terrorist targets: Kill him." If that quote was accurate then yes, I'd agree that Kuhner is calling for his death, but it either is a misquote or has subsequently been redacted. Given the sensitivity of such claims, I've removed the section prior to discussion. - Bilby ( talk) 06:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Just pointing out that, in addition to the above discussion, there's nice accompanying artwork in the form of a "Dead or Alive" wanted poster with Assange's face on it. Only the "Alive" part is crossed out, leaving "Wanted Dead or alive"...and a cross-hair target aimed between his right eye and nose...with what appears to be blood spatter behind his head. The illustration was made by Greg Groesch.
R. Baley (
talk) 12:38, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I have read that the crime was "Sex by Surprise" or sex without a condom! Is this really as serious as it is made out to be? 51kwad ( talk) 12:22, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Sweden has not charged him yet. They merely want him only for questioning. What's odd about that is that you cannot extradite people for questioning. And the case was thrown out for lack of evidence by the first prosecutor. And his defense has (deleted: ATG)s texts revealing some hidden agenda. [12] etc. In fact, we don't know so much about his second rape accuser (deleted: ATG), but we know a LOT about the older one, named (deleted: ATG). If you want to read up on the accusations, just google her name, although [13] has lots too.
Bts, Assange has just made reader's choice for Time's Person of the Year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.214.157.157 ( talk) 18:42, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Note, I have removed the alleged sexual assault victim's names from 134.214.157.157's comments above, per WP:BLP policy. Note that this applies to talk pages, as well as to articles. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 19:01, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
My recent edit was undone with the e/s "Edit doesn't make sense grammatically, and source specualtive".
Could someone, best with some German language skills, go over the edit and fix the grammar, so the information is added back in? Thank you. Skäpperöd ( talk) 19:01, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I just noticed in regard to the discussion directly above that this article was used to include graphic sexual details but all of the content about the Accusers was omitted. When it gets to the point that 1 of the accusers posted a guide called "7 step guide for revenge against ex-lovers" to her blog that includes a step called "the big lie"; and we choose not to include that in an otherwise very detailed account of sexual misbehaviour allegations against the Subject, then I think we've crossed over the NPOV line. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 22:00, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I suspect inclusion of this level of detail is undue, especially since these are "allegations" not charges, and they are referenced earlier in the section. Also, the analysis of Swedish law should probably be removed unless it is cited properly. It seems that the advice "extraordinary claims require extraordinary sourcing" is not being followed in any way shape or form here. aprock ( talk) 22:22, 13 December 2010 (UTC)Assange faces four allegations: two are for having "sexually molested"[115][116] the first complainant, once in a way “violating her sexual integrity” and, on another occasion, unprotected “against the complainant's explicitly stated wish”.[93] Though sexual molestation is the official translation of sexuellt ofredande in Chapter 6, section 7 of the Swedish Penal code,[117] some sources consider it to be a misleading translation[93] of the Swedish while some others stress “Sweden has some of the most stringent sexual-consent laws in the world”.[118] The two other accusations are for “using his body weight to hold”[115][116] down the first complainant and having sex with the second complainant “without a condom while she was asleep”.[115][116]
The same article includes:
I would say that's a big strike against credibility. Dylan Flaherty 02:44, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
http://blogs.forbes.com/kashmirhill/2010/12/13/leaked-julian-assanges-okcupid-profile/ Dylan Flaherty 01:50, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Ok, we seem to be more or less on the same page. Now, what should we do about the OKCupid entry? Report it? Ignore it? Dylan Flaherty 08:12, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
- Original source [
[15]], Ignore it I think, its really only trivia (not related to wikileaks or arrest)
Clovis Sangrail (
talk) 08:16, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Seems beyond dubious and into the realms of "almost certainly a hoax". (p.s. take OkCupid CEO's comment with a grain of salt, I don't know them directly but know people who do - they are pretty relaxed and fun loving, so there is not necessarily any guarantee they are serious) -- Errant ( chat!) 10:11, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
It is appropriate to have a Piped Link to Contents of the United States diplomatic cables leak in the section on the Release of United States diplomatic cables. After all, it is the contents of those diplomatic cables that brought mot viewers to the Julian Assange page. Uncensored Kiwi Kiss 01:56, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Ron Paul's position on Assange needs to be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Parrotistic ( talk • contribs) 02:26, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
According the the statement by the Swedish prosecutors one part of the European Arrest Warrant system is that if a country (e.g. Sweden) gets a person extradited from another EU state (e.g. the UK), Sweden is not allowed to further extradite the person to a non-EU country (e.g. the US).
I'm not sure this is terribly relevant at this point, since there is no extradiction request from the US. But since we include a quote saying that Assange fears that extradiction to Sweden might make it easier to extradite him to the US I think this is a good comment - releasing him to Sweden seems to actually make it harder to extradite him to the US, not easier.
Permalink: http://www.aklagare.se/Media/Nyheter/Fakta-om-utlamning-av-en-overlamnad-person1/
English: http://www.aklagare.se/In-English/ 85.225.222.10 ( talk) 07:54, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
I don't think we should include the Sydney Morning Herald poll. Online polls are notoriously unreliable, as it is so easy to skew the results, and, even if not deliberately skewed, their nature means that they are rarely a representative sample. In this case even the publisher makes it clear that "these polls are not scientific and reflect the opinion only of visitors who have chosen to participate." I think it is probably best to stick to polls which have a more rigorous methodology, as the findings on these sorts of polls are so questionable. - Bilby ( talk) 11:41, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
I realize this idea can be rejected for multiple reasons, but I'm thinking for the sake of encyclopedic background on this BLP as well as the other related articles, it might be good to include some context as to how much classified government information exists in comparrison to unclassified information. There are quite a few RS academic (Harvard for 1 ) reports and some news media articles that estimate the U.S. Government classified to unclassified ratio at between 1/1 to 3/1 in favour of the classified. I found this surprising, and it also brings into question several publicly pre-conceived notions about "classified" information, specifically;
I would draw the metaphor that much of the commotion related to the disclosure of US Classified Information is similar to Tulip mania wherein there was a perception of rarity contrary to physical reality.
So, I am wondering whether the Wikipedia "mission" precludes inserting such background information when it is clearly so tangential. I have been assuming its off limits in this BLP and WikiLeaks articles but I think it would add value for average Readers, so is there any support for including a brief mention of the volume of classifed info and/or the comparison between classified and unclassified? Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 16:15, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
In this article, there's already a main article link to United States diplomatic cables leak. I suppose one could add a see also link which points to Contents of the United States diplomatic cables leak. Anything more would be overkill, and even adding that link might not be warranted. aprock ( talk) 17:38, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
(Deleted by ATG)
Here's a WP:RS for one of the names: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/09/anna-ardin-julian-assange_n_794285.html -- 70.134.49.69 ( talk) 21:20, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Wow, two comments, zero responses. You sure know how to make an editor feel loved. Dylan Flaherty 02:11, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
This defense may be familiar to Encyclopaedia Dramatica regulars, but I have to see, it was rather astonishing to read out in the broader world. Supposedly what happened with Assange was actually that he was having sex with a radical feminist when the condom broke. When she found out he was having sex with another woman two days later, she charged "sex by surprise" because Sweden's laws specifically concern whether a condom is used. Apparently the fine is 5,000 kronor = $715? [16] Various other sites describe it as an allegedly "sabotaged" condom, or in the case of the second woman, that he continued having sex without a condom after first having used one. [17] [18] [19] I'm still not too clear on whether both condoms broke or just one, but this sounds like it's getting closer to the original story - and a bizarre one that will be. I'm surprised not to see discussion of this point in the article already. Is there any further insight to be had on this aspect of the story at present? Wnt ( talk) 20:07, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Allow me to offer another link that might be helpful in putting things in context: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/jaccuse-sweden-britain-an_b_795899.html Dylan Flaherty 01:05, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
When asked about the ideology and intended purpose of the site at the 2010 Oslo Freedom Forum, Assange stated:
"...it is also a good way of not making to many mistakes." --> "too many" ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperHM ( talk • contribs) 21:43, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
The sex crime section currently reads, in part, "Assange's lawyer, Mark Stephens, has compared the legal proceedings to a show trial." I'm just wondering of what value this information is to a biography. Simply put, the man is Assange's legal advocate, meaning he is not a neutral party; what exactly is he supposed to say? That the trial is just but they're fighting the charges anyway? I don't think a defense lawyer's characterization of a trail's proceedings can be seen as either neutral or relevent. DKqwerty ( talk) 22:16, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
The same applies to the quote added a minute ago by his swedish laywer, DKqwerty has already reverted it, but I just wanted to drop a note to say that I also reverted it at the same time, but he beat me too it. In this case BLP concerns also apply since the accusers are being accused of lying without any strong evidence to indicate how or why. SmartSE ( talk) 22:19, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Once a detainee on wikipedia you are always a detainee, that is standard wikipedia practice and I have replaced them. At least that was what arose out of a discussion I was involved in at Roman Polanski, although I see he has been remove from the cat, detainees of Switzerland - Pete Doherty and Tom_O'Carroll both still in prisoner cats and since released, perhaps there is consensus to remove..Assange from the detainee cats? Off2riorob ( talk) 15:05, 16 December 2010 (UTC) Off2riorob ( talk) 14:52, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
ellsbergdanger
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
two important subject not found in Current article :
walks out is important: Julian Assange to Larry King: 'you should be ashamed',daily telegraph
'You should be ashamed': WikiLeaks boss blasts astonished Larry King after he's quizzed over sex abuse claims,dailymail:WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange lost his cool on television for the second time in three days when he was again quizzed about allegations in his private life. Lookhot ( talk) 01:23, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
in Current article :
despite that poll for Time magazine's "Person of the Year, 2010" not finished !!! Lookhot ( talk) 01:45, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
firstly : Wikipedia:Editorial discretion is a essay and not a POLICY ; Wikipedia:Verifiability is a policy :
Further information: Wikipedia:Notability'
Consensus may determine, among other things, whether a given source or claim is appropriate for article inclusion; meeting Wikipedia policies and guidelines is necessary to allow inclusion, but not necessarily sufficient to warrant inclusion
There is no single definition of what consensus means on Wikipedia, but in articles consensus is typically used to try to establish and ensure neutrality and verifiability. Lookhot ( talk) 16:00, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
On 3 June' he appeared via videoconferencing at the Personal Democracy Forum conference with Daniel Ellsberg.[57][58] Ellsberg told MSNBC "the explanation he [Assange] used" for not appearing in person in the USA was that "it was not safe for him to come to this country."[59] On 11 June he was to appear on a Showcase Panel at the Investigative Reporters and Editors conference in Las Vegas,[60] but there are reports that he cancelled several days prior.[61] On 10 June 2010, it was reported that Pentagon officials are trying to determine his whereabouts.. On 21 June 2010, Assange took part at a hearing in Brussels, Belgium, appearing in public for the first time in nearly a month. Lookhot ( talk) 17:41, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
This source has a quote from Julian Assange "I grew up in a Queensland country town where people spoke their minds bluntly. They distrusted big government as something that could be corrupted if not watched carefully. The dark days of corruption in the Queensland government before the Fitzgerald inquiry are testimony to what happens when the politicians gag the media from reporting the truth," he wrote in the hours before his arrest yesterday.
"These things have stayed with me. WikiLeaks was created around these core values. The idea, conceived in Australia, was to use internet technologies in new ways to report the truth."
The era he was referring to was notorious for it's police and government corruption and abuse of the media - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitzgerald_Inquiry. Of note is episode where the Queensland Premier Sir Joh Bjelke-Peterson insulted his friend businessman Alan Bond, owner of News 9, which resulted in a libel suit, the outcome of which was a $400,000 settlement paid to Sir Jon. This is widely accepted as being a money laundering scheme to cover bribes paid the Bjelke-Peterson by developer Alan Bond to enable him to do business in Queensland. - "He purchased QTQ-9, Brisbane and settled an outstanding defamation dispute the station had with the Queensland premier, Joh Bjelke-Petersen by paying out AUD$400,000. He said in a television interview several years later that he paid because "Sir Joh left no doubt that if we were going to continue to do business successfully in Queensland then he expected the matter to be resolved". - http://wapedia.mobi/en/Alan_Bond_(businessman)
This seems to be some important background information that would have shaped Julian Assange's world view. 98.208.12.203 ( talk) 14:48, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Should something of this be in the article? -- John ( talk) 14:58, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
This phrase is linked to Hate speech, which is editorializing. Link should be removed. 67.252.54.152 ( talk) 20:49, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
Please amend the following (Alleged sex offences):
On 20 August 2010, an investigation was opened against Assange and an arrest warrant issued in Sweden in connection with sexual encounters with two women, named Anna Ardin and Sophia Wilen, aged 31 and 26. Ardin had invited Assange to stay with her at her apartment in Enkoping, and they engaged - according to Ardin's Twitter feed - in consensual sex. Assange then met Wilen, and again engaged, according to Wilen, in consensual sex. However Wilen then learned of Assange's relationship with Ardin. (Both women knew each other through membership of the Swedish Christian Social Democrat Party. Ardin served as the Party's press secretary). Ardin and Wilen then went together to the police station at Klara, a suburb of Stockholm, to seek information about their encounter with Assange. (Seeking information is a Swedish juridical formula for opening a police enquiry without risk of being branded a false informant). The two women then telephoned Niklas Svensson at the Swedish tabloid, Expressen, to report what had happened.
The Swedish police passed news of their visit to deputy prosecutor Maria Kjellstrand, who notified prosecutor Eva Finne. Finne dismissed the matter as groundless. However Ardin and Wilen, with backing from Expressen, engaged lawyer Claes Bergstroem to represent them. Bergstroem approached Swedish Director of Prosecutions Marianne Ny, whom he knew well, and who had been evolving a new legal concept of sexual molestation based solely on accusatory testimony. (In accusatory testimony an offence is deemed to have taken place unless an accused can prove the contrary). Ny then commenced court action.
Sweden's Prosecuting Authority then applied to Stockholm District Court to detain Assange for questioning. On 20 November, Sweden's National Criminal Police force issued an international arrest warrant for Assange via Interpol, and an EU arrest warrant was issued through the Schengen Information System. This warrant was passed to the authorities in the UK, but jercted by them on the grounds that it was too imprecise. (It is interesting to note that the grounds for an accusation of sexual coercion are not clearly defined in Swedish law, and that Assange was consequently only summoned to appear before an investigating magistrate, rather than charged with a defined criminal offence. There is some argument as to whether loosely defined sexual coercion can actually rank as a cross border European criminal offence, and also whether an European Arrest Warrant can be enforced when a person is merely wanted for questioning, rather than accused of a criminal offence).
The Swedish authories then issued a new warrant, and Assange was arrested in London on 7 December 2010. He appeared before Westminster County Court, and was remanded to a superior court capable of ruling on the intricacies of the matter. He will appear in court again on 14 December 2010. Beaunic ( talk) 21:22, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Is it appropriate to note that the notice was not a typical notice with respect to the desired conditions of imprisonment given in the red notice? It is unreasonable in my opinion for a modern society to hold any alleged criminals "incommunicado without access to lawyers" [1]. Ansell 03:37, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
This section is not really about this persons life and should really be elsewhere. Considering that Wikileaks has its own article the whole of the wikileaks section has become excessively bloated and requires trimming to about a quarter of what is there now. Off2riorob ( talk) 11:20, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
Hi, NTV (MSNBC's partner organisation in Turkey) has publicly disclosed that the 2 women are AA and SW on their website [ from Turkey -- and S--]. My question is as follows : What is Wikipedia's policy on making names of persons appear in their articles once these persons have been freely quoted on internet websites of mainstream media ? Sometimes I see there are articles where persons are quoted directly by their name and even occupation and at other times this info is redacted. So, I am confused. The Wikipedia 'policy section' is rather vague on this an eit appears to be that this is left to the discretion of the writer. Or is it ? Thanks for an answer and please don't flame me ... the question is sincerely genuine. Natobxl 17:10, 10 December 2010 (CET)
In the lead we politely identify Assange as a computer scientist, but wasn't he slightly better known for the hacking exploits that led to early trouble with authorities. I don't particularly care about advertising these, but it seems like a bit of a whitewash to use the CS term, particularly when his roots to the hacktivist community began with his early online activities. Thoughts? (I'd be happy to dig up sources, though I've seen the hacking issue described all around). Ocaasi ( talk) 17:33, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
This section header is a recipe for any old valueless addition or soapboxing to be added, I have remove this twice today but its again been replaced. This is the guys BLP not a soapbox for such irrelevant comments that belong either on Putins article or somewhere else, the trash bin in my opinion. Filling up the article with such dribble weakens the worthwhile content.
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said that Assange's arrest indicated that the West's criticism (of Russia’s record concerning democracy) is hypocritical. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/wikileaks-backers-threaten-more-cyber-attacks/article1832334/
If thats not soapboxing and irrelevant to this persons life story I don't know what is and from a person who would have certainly silenced him if he was in Russia. Off2riorob ( talk) 20:01, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There is a dispute as to whether the lead of Julian Assange should mention that Sweden has issued an arrest warrant for him. The suggested sentence is (or words to this effect):
Assange has also come to public attention over allegations of sexual assault made by two women in Sweden. An international arrest warrant was issued for him on 19 November 2010 by a Swedish prosecutor on charges of rape, sexual molestation, and unlawful coercion. He has denied the allegations." [1]
Should this be included or not? SlimVirgin talk| contribs 06:45, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
The article reads:
Perhaps it should be mentioned it clearly seemed to be a terrible and tasteless [possibly criminal] joke, rather than a real threat?
He appologized for the "joke" the next day. He also said that he never “seriously intended to advocate or propose the assassination of Mr. Assange.” http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2010/12/04/let-flanagans-remarks-die/
I think the "joke" may have been just that, but it may also have been a serious comment. There is nothing definative about the comments made by Flanagan that suggest he was making a joke (bar the "manly" comment, which could very well be backpeddaling). It sounds to me like a politician trying to boost an approval rating an misjudging public opinion. His appology should be mentioned though. -- Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] ( talk) 14:39, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I do not believe the fact that Assange is in the running for person of the year belongs in the article, and I removed it once but it has since been re-added. For me, it would be better to wait until he wins it before adding it. What do others think? -- John ( talk) 21:18, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Assange's exploits have cemented him as a candidate for TIME's 2010 Person of the Year -- so much so that past TIME 100 honores went out on a limb to explain why he was their choice. "For better or for worse, Julian Assange has changed the accessibility to knowledge of the two wars that involve the U.S., within a matter of months," said Lauren Zalaznick, president of NBC Universal Women and Lifestyle Entertainment Networks. "He has also put journalistic integrity on a knife-blade edge: What is the responsibility of the journalist to make public or keep private?" [8]
Nonsense; it's trivial information placed before the end of voting. You can't support that by saying sources find it significant then failing to address that in the article, it is the burden of editorship. The content is just valueless at this time, we are mostly agreed on that. Warring it in doesn't really change that. -- Errant ( chat!) 15:27, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
<Undent> I previously removed this Time Magazine stuff from the lead, but deliberately left it in the "Award Section". I continue to think that's a good compromise (assuming it doesn't go anywhere else like in the infobox). You all do realize --- don't you? --- that this is a silly conversation given that it will soon be moot seeing as how the magazine will soon make a decision. Surely, if he doesn't get it, we would not mention that some hope he might. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 00:30, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
I've removed it. Consensus here seems to be against it. I agree with that. If he wins it, that's he wins it is important - not the fact he was winning it a week before. If he doesn't win it - it is also trivia. The fact he's in the lead now just isn't important. It's trivia and even then it's only interesting for this one week (see WP:NOTNEWS - especially when we know this "news" has no lasting significance).-- Scott Mac 00:58, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/06/07/100607fa_fact_khatchadourian?currentPage=5 (page 5 onwards) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.185.243.170 ( talk) 19:14, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
According to the Australian Electoral Roll, the Assange family lived in the Melbourne suburb of Upwey from 1987 to 1994. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Itemroad2 ( talk • contribs) 08:28, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Assange has been (still is?) a member of the FreeBSD and especially the NetBSD community. He also contributed some slogans for its fortune file. http://www.lemis.com/grog/diary-dec2010.php#8 -- Athaba ( talk) 20:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
I think much of this content belongs in this BLP because it is specifically praising Assange himself. Right now it's all in the Wikileaks article. Would it be reasonable to transfer it over here or cut and paste it for here and leave it there as well? Surely it belongs here as much or more than there. Right now there is an unintentional pov fork in effect by ommitting all of this praise from Assange's BLP. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 02:58, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Brazil: President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva expressed his "solidarity" with Julian Assange following Assange's 2010 arrest in the United Kingdom. [1] [2] He further criticised the arrest of Julian Assange as "an attack on freedom of expression". [3]
Ecuador: In late November 2010 a representative of the government of Ecuador made what was, apparently, an unsolicited public offer to Julian Assange to establish residency in Ecuador. Deputy Foreign Minister Kinto Lucas stated "we are going to invite him to come to Ecuador so he can freely present the information he possesses and all the documentation, not just on the Internet, but in various public forums." [4] Lucas went on to state his praise for WikiLeaks and Assange calling them "[people] who are constantly investigating and trying to get light out of the dark corners of [state] information." [5] The following day, however, president Rafael Correa distanced his administration from the offer stating that Lucas had been speaking for himself and not on the government's behalf. Correa then criticised Assange for "breaking the laws of the United States and leaking this type of information." [6]
Russia: In December 2010 the office of Russian president Dmitry Medvedev issued a statement calling on non-governmental organisations to consider "nominating [Julian] Assange as a Nobel Prize laureate." The announcement followed commentary by Russian ambassador to NATO Dmitry Rogozin who stated that Julian Assange's earlier arrest on Swedish charges demonstrated that there was "no media freedom" in the west. [7]
United Nations: In December 2010 United Nations Special Rapporteur for Freedom of Opinion and Expression Frank LaRue stated he agreed with the idea that Julian Assange was a "martyr for free speech." LaRue went on to say Assange or other WikiLeaks staff should not face legal accountability for any information they disseminated, noting that, "if there is a responsibility by leaking information it is of, exclusively of the person that made the leak and not of the media that publish it. And this is the way that transparency works and that corruption has been confronted in many cases." [8] High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay subsequently voiced concern at the revelation that private companies were being pressured by states to sever their relationships with WikiLeaks. [9] Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 02:58, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
When one looks at this BLP objectively, it is obvious that an unintentional POV fork has occurred,wherein most of the praise for the Subject of the BLP, Assange, even praise by Heads of State (see above) has been ommitted, yet is present within the WikiLeaks article. Conversely, this BLP's "Release of United States diplomatic cables" section and the "Reactions to Leaking" section probably have 2/3rds+ negative content and contain very little information which is Assange specific. That content more properly belongs in the Wikileaks article. Right now it looks like a complete rewrite is in order, it seems to me. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 03:24, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Julian_Assange&oldid=401768328#Reactions_to_leaking
Assange reportedly could have avoided the women contacting authorities by submitting to STD testing. reference: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/report-assange-rape-case-sparked-std-fears/ Can anyone else find a more reliable source? Aaronchall ( talk) 05:49, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
I also am finding myself wondering about the Alleged sex crimes section but not regarding its current composition which I think has been made to be quite good and NPOV . I started remembering another BLP I worked on where the issue was whether or not to include accusations of crimes when no charges had been laid. The consensus was "no". Assange's lawyer was on CNN last night saying that no charges at all have been laid as yet, and, in fact, the actual accusations themselves are not defined. That ,in effect,he's being held for questioning at this point in time. His lawyer painted a confinement for Assange that looks a bit Kafkaesque. I guess what I'm suggesting is that until defined criminal charges are laid that the event be summarized in 3 or 4 sentences. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 14:07, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Clearly the sexual claims is a little bloated at this time, although has been kept neutral and pretty well in line with policy, difficult to trim more but in a few days it will be clear, the details of the extradition or not will be released on the 14th I think he is back in court, extradition is only allowed for charges not investigation. Clearly it is easier to request a red note arrest than it is to action the extradition. With this being a hugely high profile case the UK will want to see some details and will need convincing of the legal claims to hand him over. Off2riorob ( talk) 15:24, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
I have moved the section to a new article as it was quite long. I know this had been discussed here in the past. I did not change much. Simply a copy paste job. But hopefully this will clear up some of the issues of "what should be included HERE?" ... Tim.thelion ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:20, 11 December 2010 (UTC). OK Off2riorob reverted my edit imediatly. The page I had created was Assange sex charges and trial not really sure what to do now. Please say more Off2riorob... Tim.thelion ( talk)
The Wiki article states that an "international" arrest warrant was issued against Assange. Was it a European Arrest Warrant? I think you are drawing too much information from US and Australian media who are writing on the basis of their familiarity with their own legal systems and procedures and not from a European position. If it is an EAW, then it does matter a lot that the alleged events occurred in Sweden (an EU member state), that the person involved is not an EU citizen and not even an EU resident but a third country national with residence outside the EU, that a UK judge (i.e. a judge from another EU member state) deals with all this, and the whole lot happens within the context of not only two national European jurisdictions but also European Union legislation. KathaLu ( talk) 16:07, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
It was an Interpol red note, arrest and hold with a view to extradition, it will need a European extradition to move him to Sweden. Off2riorob ( talk) 16:41, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
This has just been added, its complete twaddle, valueless bloat. Off2riorob ( talk) 17:24, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg said that Assange "is serving our [American] democracy and serving our rule of law precisely by challenging the secrecy regulations, which are not laws in most cases, in this country." On the issue of national security considerations for the U.S. regarding Wikileaks's publication of American diplomatic cables, Ellsberg added that "He’s obviously a very competent guy in many ways. I think his instincts are that most of this material deserves to be out. We are arguing over a very small fragment that doesn’t. He has not yet put out anything that hurt anybody’s national security". [1] An editorial in the Sydney Morning Herald by Bryce Lowry described Assange as "the Ned Kelly of the digital age" comparing him to a bushranger who defied colonial authorities in Australia in the nineteenth century. [2] An editorial in China's Beijing Daily, a publication of the Beijing city government, suggested that this year’s Nobel Peace Prize not be given to the Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo but to Julian Assange. [3]
That section is again overlarge and has two main article which are already linked to, I am going to trim it in half. Off2riorob ( talk) 17:26, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
This additional government created "throw enough mud against the wall and some of it will stick" attack is not worthy of inclusion at all. Just because a U.S. Government person makes an accusation doesn't make it notable. This entire little section should go out of this BLP. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 17:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Assange's attorneys in the U.K. and Sweden have been making a song and dance about Assange's willingness to be interviewed by the Swedish authorities in London. They claimed that "an arrest warrant was unnecessary, as Assange was always willing to face questioning in a Swedish embassy abroad or via telephone or video link". But "lead Swedish prosecutor Marianne Ny" told TIME earlier this week "that an arrest warrant was issued because Swedish law prohibits formal legal interviews over a telephone or via a video link". Again, I think this is an important point because a British reader (don't know about the USA) is not aware of such vital differences between jurisdictions / legal systems. KathaLu ( talk) 20:48, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
This is kind of dubious. While the lawyers are obviously spinning the story to their client's advantage, the prosecutor is also misleading: prior to the warrant, it would have been possible to question Assange 'informally' via telephone, video link, or at the Swedish Embassy in London. Further, there is a serious legal question here - whether a state may demand someone appear in person to face questioning, at their own expense, which is outside the Assange article. Given the lack of 'dual crimininality' on the alleged offenses, the other issue is whether Assange's efforts to answer questions while remaining in England satisfied English standards of 'reasonable'. Your comment is objective, but if Ny's comment is to be included for balance, then it too needs additional background, from someone more familiar with the current legal controversy. Again, a bit of time may bring clarity to the issues. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Geek 29A ( talk • contribs) 17:37, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
User mr grant evens 2 has again removed the sex allegations section even though it is only a redirect after the discussion at the BLPN. All the sexual content has been removd and more look how good mr assange has been added by this user, it seems like a promotional push. Off2riorob ( talk) 22:54, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
The redirect goes nowhere. So now the page doesn't include anything about the alleged crimes. Would someone who knows more about Mediawiki than me please restore whatever material about the crimes has been deleted. Huckfinne ( talk) 23:02, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
He has also Cut and copy duplicate support content from wikileaks article this support section is cut and copy duplicate from wikileaks article Off2riorob ( talk) 23:10, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Interesting Guardian article from 2008 (!) about the consequences of the introduction of the European Arrest Warrant and the increase of such warrants for minor offences that, in the UK, are dealt with by the City of Westminster magistrates court, which handles all extradition hearings. Many of these offences were so minor that they would lead to either a caution or no investigation at all in England and Wales. So contrary to what we are being told or what is widely believed, Assange's case is far from unique in this respect. More in Door thief, piglet rustler, pudding snatcher: British courts despair at extradition requests KathaLu ( talk) 23:12, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Regarding "US State Department spokesman Philip J. Crowley objected to the description of Assange as a journalist,[87] and also stated that the US State Department does not regard WikiLeaks as a legitimate media organization" Are we really at the point where a government's opinion as to the definition of "journalist" or "legitimate" news organiztion is notable? Will we be also including State Dept. movie reviews at academy awards time? I don't think the US State dept. spokesman's opinion about someone's journalism skills is any more notable than the opinion of any editor here on that topic and it should be excluded from this BLP. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 13:37, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
In reading thoroughly the daily press briefing used as a source for P.J.Crowley's statements referred to in the topic above , I see these contents which may belong in this article: "Mr, Crowley:Mr. Assange obviously has a particular political objective behind his activities, and I think that, among other things, disqualifies him as being considered a journalist. QUESTION: What is his political objective? MR. CROWLEY: Well, his – I mean he could be considered a political actor. I think he’s an anarchist, but he’s not a journalist. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 16:25, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
I think calling someone a "terrorist" or "enemy combatant" is actually a thinly veiled death threat, because if you are one, you can be killed on the battlefield without due process. So anyone who calls Assange a terrorist or enemy combatant is actually calling for him to be "taken out". Don't you think? I haven't heard of any terrorists or enemy combatants being served an arrest warrant and being taken into custody. Ghostofnemo ( talk) 01:02, 13 December 2010 (UTC) An editor moved quotes calling Assange a "terrorist" and an "enemy combatant" out of the "Calls for death" section and into the "Criticism" section. Ghostofnemo ( talk) 02:50, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Ghostofnemo, your opinion that 'calling someone a "terrorist" ... is actually a thinly veiled death threat' is just that, an opinion, until you can provide sources that state otherwise. Unless you provide such sources, this topic is closed. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 03:54, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I don't understand the reasoning behind this edit. I checked out the source and that sentence is appropriately representing it. How is it a "clear BLP violation"? Silver seren C 06:09, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
For the relevant BLP violation, see [11]. Everything after the first two paragraphs in that section is just careless quote farming for the sake of sensationalism, and hardly qualifies as: presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone. aprock ( talk) 06:33, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I can see the point that Ghostofnemo is putting across and can agree with it in some respects but not completely. yes there is no doubt that some people calling Assange a "terrorist" are inciting violence and would like to see him excecutted (as a few US and even Canadian politicians have openly stated in interviews). However, I think that the person who added the phrases probably dosn't have their intentions in a death threat and is just trying to convey the opinion of Assange from a US perspective (something which shouldn't really be done at any rate, in the interests of combating bias). The words "Terrorist" and "Enemy Combatant" However, are too loaded for Wikipeadia I feel and shouldn't be used here. -- Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] ( talk) 14:31, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
This is besides the point. I saw here that there are people in fox news, a person in the canadian government, who call for his immediate assasination. These are definately death threats, not critisism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.110.61 ( talk) 03:13, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
I've removed:
The content is sourced to two articles: Washington Times and dcist. My concern is that the Washington Times article, as it stands now, does not specifically call for the death of Assange. It does have a provocative title, "Assassinate Assange?" and concludes with "If that's true, we should treat Mr. Assange the same way as other high-value terrorist targets", but I can't see anything which clearly calls for his death. The dcist article does think Kuhner calls for Assange's death, and quotes the article as saying "If that's true, we should treat Mr. Assange the same way as other high-value terrorist targets: Kill him." If that quote was accurate then yes, I'd agree that Kuhner is calling for his death, but it either is a misquote or has subsequently been redacted. Given the sensitivity of such claims, I've removed the section prior to discussion. - Bilby ( talk) 06:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Just pointing out that, in addition to the above discussion, there's nice accompanying artwork in the form of a "Dead or Alive" wanted poster with Assange's face on it. Only the "Alive" part is crossed out, leaving "Wanted Dead or alive"...and a cross-hair target aimed between his right eye and nose...with what appears to be blood spatter behind his head. The illustration was made by Greg Groesch.
R. Baley (
talk) 12:38, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I have read that the crime was "Sex by Surprise" or sex without a condom! Is this really as serious as it is made out to be? 51kwad ( talk) 12:22, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Sweden has not charged him yet. They merely want him only for questioning. What's odd about that is that you cannot extradite people for questioning. And the case was thrown out for lack of evidence by the first prosecutor. And his defense has (deleted: ATG)s texts revealing some hidden agenda. [12] etc. In fact, we don't know so much about his second rape accuser (deleted: ATG), but we know a LOT about the older one, named (deleted: ATG). If you want to read up on the accusations, just google her name, although [13] has lots too.
Bts, Assange has just made reader's choice for Time's Person of the Year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.214.157.157 ( talk) 18:42, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Note, I have removed the alleged sexual assault victim's names from 134.214.157.157's comments above, per WP:BLP policy. Note that this applies to talk pages, as well as to articles. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 19:01, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
My recent edit was undone with the e/s "Edit doesn't make sense grammatically, and source specualtive".
Could someone, best with some German language skills, go over the edit and fix the grammar, so the information is added back in? Thank you. Skäpperöd ( talk) 19:01, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I just noticed in regard to the discussion directly above that this article was used to include graphic sexual details but all of the content about the Accusers was omitted. When it gets to the point that 1 of the accusers posted a guide called "7 step guide for revenge against ex-lovers" to her blog that includes a step called "the big lie"; and we choose not to include that in an otherwise very detailed account of sexual misbehaviour allegations against the Subject, then I think we've crossed over the NPOV line. Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 22:00, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I suspect inclusion of this level of detail is undue, especially since these are "allegations" not charges, and they are referenced earlier in the section. Also, the analysis of Swedish law should probably be removed unless it is cited properly. It seems that the advice "extraordinary claims require extraordinary sourcing" is not being followed in any way shape or form here. aprock ( talk) 22:22, 13 December 2010 (UTC)Assange faces four allegations: two are for having "sexually molested"[115][116] the first complainant, once in a way “violating her sexual integrity” and, on another occasion, unprotected “against the complainant's explicitly stated wish”.[93] Though sexual molestation is the official translation of sexuellt ofredande in Chapter 6, section 7 of the Swedish Penal code,[117] some sources consider it to be a misleading translation[93] of the Swedish while some others stress “Sweden has some of the most stringent sexual-consent laws in the world”.[118] The two other accusations are for “using his body weight to hold”[115][116] down the first complainant and having sex with the second complainant “without a condom while she was asleep”.[115][116]
The same article includes:
I would say that's a big strike against credibility. Dylan Flaherty 02:44, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
http://blogs.forbes.com/kashmirhill/2010/12/13/leaked-julian-assanges-okcupid-profile/ Dylan Flaherty 01:50, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Ok, we seem to be more or less on the same page. Now, what should we do about the OKCupid entry? Report it? Ignore it? Dylan Flaherty 08:12, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
- Original source [
[15]], Ignore it I think, its really only trivia (not related to wikileaks or arrest)
Clovis Sangrail (
talk) 08:16, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Seems beyond dubious and into the realms of "almost certainly a hoax". (p.s. take OkCupid CEO's comment with a grain of salt, I don't know them directly but know people who do - they are pretty relaxed and fun loving, so there is not necessarily any guarantee they are serious) -- Errant ( chat!) 10:11, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
It is appropriate to have a Piped Link to Contents of the United States diplomatic cables leak in the section on the Release of United States diplomatic cables. After all, it is the contents of those diplomatic cables that brought mot viewers to the Julian Assange page. Uncensored Kiwi Kiss 01:56, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Ron Paul's position on Assange needs to be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Parrotistic ( talk • contribs) 02:26, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
According the the statement by the Swedish prosecutors one part of the European Arrest Warrant system is that if a country (e.g. Sweden) gets a person extradited from another EU state (e.g. the UK), Sweden is not allowed to further extradite the person to a non-EU country (e.g. the US).
I'm not sure this is terribly relevant at this point, since there is no extradiction request from the US. But since we include a quote saying that Assange fears that extradiction to Sweden might make it easier to extradite him to the US I think this is a good comment - releasing him to Sweden seems to actually make it harder to extradite him to the US, not easier.
Permalink: http://www.aklagare.se/Media/Nyheter/Fakta-om-utlamning-av-en-overlamnad-person1/
English: http://www.aklagare.se/In-English/ 85.225.222.10 ( talk) 07:54, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
I don't think we should include the Sydney Morning Herald poll. Online polls are notoriously unreliable, as it is so easy to skew the results, and, even if not deliberately skewed, their nature means that they are rarely a representative sample. In this case even the publisher makes it clear that "these polls are not scientific and reflect the opinion only of visitors who have chosen to participate." I think it is probably best to stick to polls which have a more rigorous methodology, as the findings on these sorts of polls are so questionable. - Bilby ( talk) 11:41, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
I realize this idea can be rejected for multiple reasons, but I'm thinking for the sake of encyclopedic background on this BLP as well as the other related articles, it might be good to include some context as to how much classified government information exists in comparrison to unclassified information. There are quite a few RS academic (Harvard for 1 ) reports and some news media articles that estimate the U.S. Government classified to unclassified ratio at between 1/1 to 3/1 in favour of the classified. I found this surprising, and it also brings into question several publicly pre-conceived notions about "classified" information, specifically;
I would draw the metaphor that much of the commotion related to the disclosure of US Classified Information is similar to Tulip mania wherein there was a perception of rarity contrary to physical reality.
So, I am wondering whether the Wikipedia "mission" precludes inserting such background information when it is clearly so tangential. I have been assuming its off limits in this BLP and WikiLeaks articles but I think it would add value for average Readers, so is there any support for including a brief mention of the volume of classifed info and/or the comparison between classified and unclassified? Mr.Grantevans2 ( talk) 16:15, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
In this article, there's already a main article link to United States diplomatic cables leak. I suppose one could add a see also link which points to Contents of the United States diplomatic cables leak. Anything more would be overkill, and even adding that link might not be warranted. aprock ( talk) 17:38, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
(Deleted by ATG)
Here's a WP:RS for one of the names: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/09/anna-ardin-julian-assange_n_794285.html -- 70.134.49.69 ( talk) 21:20, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Wow, two comments, zero responses. You sure know how to make an editor feel loved. Dylan Flaherty 02:11, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
This defense may be familiar to Encyclopaedia Dramatica regulars, but I have to see, it was rather astonishing to read out in the broader world. Supposedly what happened with Assange was actually that he was having sex with a radical feminist when the condom broke. When she found out he was having sex with another woman two days later, she charged "sex by surprise" because Sweden's laws specifically concern whether a condom is used. Apparently the fine is 5,000 kronor = $715? [16] Various other sites describe it as an allegedly "sabotaged" condom, or in the case of the second woman, that he continued having sex without a condom after first having used one. [17] [18] [19] I'm still not too clear on whether both condoms broke or just one, but this sounds like it's getting closer to the original story - and a bizarre one that will be. I'm surprised not to see discussion of this point in the article already. Is there any further insight to be had on this aspect of the story at present? Wnt ( talk) 20:07, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Allow me to offer another link that might be helpful in putting things in context: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/jaccuse-sweden-britain-an_b_795899.html Dylan Flaherty 01:05, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
When asked about the ideology and intended purpose of the site at the 2010 Oslo Freedom Forum, Assange stated:
"...it is also a good way of not making to many mistakes." --> "too many" ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperHM ( talk • contribs) 21:43, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
The sex crime section currently reads, in part, "Assange's lawyer, Mark Stephens, has compared the legal proceedings to a show trial." I'm just wondering of what value this information is to a biography. Simply put, the man is Assange's legal advocate, meaning he is not a neutral party; what exactly is he supposed to say? That the trial is just but they're fighting the charges anyway? I don't think a defense lawyer's characterization of a trail's proceedings can be seen as either neutral or relevent. DKqwerty ( talk) 22:16, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
The same applies to the quote added a minute ago by his swedish laywer, DKqwerty has already reverted it, but I just wanted to drop a note to say that I also reverted it at the same time, but he beat me too it. In this case BLP concerns also apply since the accusers are being accused of lying without any strong evidence to indicate how or why. SmartSE ( talk) 22:19, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Once a detainee on wikipedia you are always a detainee, that is standard wikipedia practice and I have replaced them. At least that was what arose out of a discussion I was involved in at Roman Polanski, although I see he has been remove from the cat, detainees of Switzerland - Pete Doherty and Tom_O'Carroll both still in prisoner cats and since released, perhaps there is consensus to remove..Assange from the detainee cats? Off2riorob ( talk) 15:05, 16 December 2010 (UTC) Off2riorob ( talk) 14:52, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
ellsbergdanger
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).