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![]() | This article was edited to contain a total or partial translation of Site archéologique de Jublains from the French Wikipedia. Consult the history of the original page to see a list of its authors. |
too many intervening edits to revert the well-meaning NPP guy's third edit, need to deal with getting the info bov back and and correcting the erroneous location and alt entries and adding the others. Still less work than redoing all the intervening work. Back to translating the detail sections on individual excavations and working on repetition and organization. Elinruby ( talk) 08:13, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
overreliance to the point of promo Elinruby ( talk) 09:07, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
Not to mention translating French, by God. I don't think I know how to act.
Seriously, it's a Good Article on fr.wiki, which suggested it to me as a translation. It isn't afaik well known as an archaeological site, but several civilizations have settled there so it's probably highly relevant to a niche audience. And the artwork is drop-dead gorgeous.
Glad to see that it might actually see the light of day. I would ike to encourage the people who are working on it to please do continue. I think there is more on the French side; as I remember things, when the article was draftified I truncated off the untranslated French. I am on an underpowered mobile and really need to work in a single window. I came in here to make a translator note about something and got so excited I forgot what it was. May be back to do that. Thank you uch you guys. Elinruby ( talk) 18:52, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
The French historic site lists use this word to designate anything that is historic, whether it is a keep, a barn, a chalice or the footprints of Mohammed. There is no connotation of commemorating something as there is in English.
Just pointing out a hole in the road. Not saying anybody did this one wrong; I just saw this in the text I was looking at, is all, and it's a frequent issue. Probably exists elsewhere in the text. Elinruby ( talk) 18:58, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
Another pitfall: important may mean "large" and this is a mistake that the tool does make. Instances of this word need to be checked against context to determine if intended meaning is "large" or "correct" Elinruby ( talk) 19:13, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
Bourg: at its most generic, just means a town. I think but am not certain however that in this context it has a specialized meaning related to fortifications. Need to check this Elinruby ( talk) 22:54, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
To do Well, this is not a list of problems.It was really intended as a list of things the translator wondered about" + some PSAs to anyone else who comes along, but since you ask, I will try to be more specific. Monuments: I saw this in the translation I just did and dealt with it -- we aren't required to translate word for word. It may also exist however in the intro, where there is something about an array of monuments? Buildings? That attest to the spread of Romanization. Just saying, the footprints of Mohammed were on the monuments list in Algeria. This may also crop up in the Urbanism section. Important: just a known pitfall for anglophones, and I know from experience that online translators have an issue with cognates. I saw three instances in the in the work I just did. Somewhere in the Roman section I changed "the important city" (Le Mans} to "the metropolis". I left "important cross-road" as "important" because what is a big cross-road? There was another instance further down, I believe, referring to a building. I changed that to "large". I think there was only one instance of bourg and it's italicized. I left it alone because hey, town is not wrong, but I seem to remember encountering it before in a discussion of fortified cities. Unsure. It is not a common word in French, at least not Parisian French. While we are discussing subtleties, "cité" is another cognate. I am uncertain how big this place was, and whether it would have been considered a city at the time. "Settlement" or "town" or village "outpost" might conceivably also be a correct translation. Hope that helps; if you think I called something wrong, just let me know. I am just doing the due diligence on the translation tool, and the text went through sell-check too, which increases the suspicion level. If you are just looking for something to do, this article is my closely referenced than most French articles but is a heavy reliance on that one archaeologist. Nice bibliography btw. I looked at your edits and liked them, but am uncertain of your French level. For all I know you're a French archaeologist ;) If you are, I commented out a section about an "enduit", which is a thingie at the base of a wall, but it seemed out of context there; that mystery is still unresolved. Some of the tribe names might still be in French. I cleaned the CTX cruft out of the wikilinks but they should still be checked to make sure they do go to the right place. Finding lots of hits on Google Scholar (Jublains), haven't done anything with those yet. There is a whole category tree at Wikipedia Commons about this site. Was the porch to the temple destroyed or demolished or did it just fall down? I used collapse, but that was a guess. I also don't know what an octostyle temple is; that should be checked. Feel free to add anything that occurs to you that you can't immediately get to at the time. Elinruby ( talk) 04:58, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
@ ByTheDarkBlueSea: There are a lot of French archaeology articles! And the draft translations have been getting deleted like this one was going to. I would be absolutely delighted to make some suggestions. Do you have any preference as to period or region? Algeria, which of course used to be part of France, needs a lot of help as well. Off the top of my head, there are definitely a lot of articles about city walls, Gaulish excavation sites, and remote villages in southern and central France. I personally was intrigued by "mother goddess" and the great fresco up top, which were new to me, but if I log into the French translation tool it will probably suggest some more in this area, now. There are also a number of child articles to this one as I recall. When I was looking at references last night I was getting a lot of hits in which archaeology sites in the region were compared to this one, which is also interesting because of the very long and well-documented excavation history. The mosaic documented in the 18th century and now on display in the museum was a particularly nice point, I thought. Anyway... I guess I could ping you to a separate section here about related/child pages, and maybe send you some examples of other articles to your talk page. There are dozens of French translations languishing at WP:PNT, also, including a terrible machine translation about a chateau and royal residence that I have been rehabbing, off and on, for years now. Most of the pNT articles are about other topics though. Give me a definition of "interesting" and I will be delighted to make that happen. Ecstatic even. Seriously. Elinruby ( talk) 15:42, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Scope creep: do you by chance know how to make this link to the French article? Elinruby ( talk) 16:12, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
yep somebody at fr.wikimedia has made the link already. Elinruby ( talk) 19:47, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
Linked octastyle via Wikidata to fr:octostyle; they describe the same thing. (As a bonus, you also get a Swedish article for free.) Mathglot ( talk) 02:42, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
In no particular order:
Followup: Working on Rubricaire, which I mistakenly deleted from See also in this article. No pressure on time. I don't have time to work on either of these articles right now, but I don't want to be the bottleneck to work getting done, so I will work on it here and there today. The article is very long, and the tool I am using doesn't publish to draft, so it won't let me import straight French. (I am draftifying in a second step) Both of these are going to be just translated enough to import, so be aware of that. A fairly important caveat: what CTX does with wikilinks needs to be carefully checked. It always pipes, whether this is needed or not, for one thing. It actually does a fairly good job with identifying en.wiki targets, but it can be wrong and a typo anywhere along the way can have hilarious results. Automatic translation is disabled coming into English, so the translated parts will be in my translation, but this will have been done really fast with the thinking that it's going to draft and will be checked. Just an FYI. And yeah, I am seeing my part in this as making this work easily available over here for people who want to work on it. Also, I did not import the infoboxes, as this does not give good results. I will take care of that later, manually, unless one of you really wants to do it before that. Elinruby ( talk) 17:16, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
Category:Archaeological site of Jublains Elinruby ( talk) 19:40, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
Check this one out: Currently not used on Wikipedia:
Elinruby ( talk) 19:51, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
I think there is enough material. We have the museum (which this image must be from) as an ILL in the See also. All of those ILLs are all interesting-looking translation possibilities. Maybe Gallo-roman archaeology? As for Jouvains, I think it got its own category at Commons because of all the great images, and that might not be true of all of them -Rubricaire doesn't seem to have much. But yeah, that is something that needs to be done, if you want to do it. Based on what I am seeing in the deep dive in JStor and Persée, what we have is a rather well-excavated group of sites that have the Roman roads in common. Jouvains and Rubricaire keep getting mentioned as relay stations. So yeah, that would be great. But if we are going to create categories there possibly should be something about that relay system. Since it was all over Gaul --probably the Roman Empire -- it might already exist. But it seems to be a fairly recent topic of interest, so maybe not. TL;DR=Sure! And I have suggestions, see above. Jouvains seems to be important enough for its own category or subcategory, but if we do the related sites some of them might not be. Maybe we should approach this a subcategory of Roman roads, if that's a category. Bottom lines, yes, absolutely please do. Elinruby ( talk) 14:51, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
A lot of that wasn't in the French text I translated, which was very focused on Naveau's work, and may not be completely in there yet. At the time I did this I was focused on mitigating the single-source aspects of the article. If you are particularly interested in one of these aspects I can probably get in some writing in the next day or so, assuming none of the couple things I am watching blows up too badly. Also, in the interest of powering through I did not match the existing citation style, which I dislike and don't want to learn, but yeah, we should have a single citation style. If you are somewhat comfortable in French, there is Persée, which has a lot of proceedings of the Académie Française etc. There is also a journal specifically devoted to archaeology in Western France. I don't remember the name, but I think I cited on it in that last batch of work I did here. Ping me if you have any questions, but feel free to improve the article and/or its presentation as seems best to you; the above are just suggestions. I spent a little time yesterday making sure the article was no longer an orphan, but a lot of that was fairly mechanical entries in See also sections that could probably be better woven into the text. The article on the current town is the most obvious example of this. I will be around but need to take care of some other things just now. Thank you for the help. Elinruby ( talk) 01:56, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
further followup exists but all of its other elements are the roads not the relay stations. Hopefully that helps somewhat. I don't think this article mentions the names of the roads that meet at this crossroads but when I translate the content doesn't always sink in, so somebody should check that. If not it an probably be fairly easily discovered if that becomes an in impediment. Elinruby ( talk) 04:51, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was edited to contain a total or partial translation of Site archéologique de Jublains from the French Wikipedia. Consult the history of the original page to see a list of its authors. |
too many intervening edits to revert the well-meaning NPP guy's third edit, need to deal with getting the info bov back and and correcting the erroneous location and alt entries and adding the others. Still less work than redoing all the intervening work. Back to translating the detail sections on individual excavations and working on repetition and organization. Elinruby ( talk) 08:13, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
overreliance to the point of promo Elinruby ( talk) 09:07, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
Not to mention translating French, by God. I don't think I know how to act.
Seriously, it's a Good Article on fr.wiki, which suggested it to me as a translation. It isn't afaik well known as an archaeological site, but several civilizations have settled there so it's probably highly relevant to a niche audience. And the artwork is drop-dead gorgeous.
Glad to see that it might actually see the light of day. I would ike to encourage the people who are working on it to please do continue. I think there is more on the French side; as I remember things, when the article was draftified I truncated off the untranslated French. I am on an underpowered mobile and really need to work in a single window. I came in here to make a translator note about something and got so excited I forgot what it was. May be back to do that. Thank you uch you guys. Elinruby ( talk) 18:52, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
The French historic site lists use this word to designate anything that is historic, whether it is a keep, a barn, a chalice or the footprints of Mohammed. There is no connotation of commemorating something as there is in English.
Just pointing out a hole in the road. Not saying anybody did this one wrong; I just saw this in the text I was looking at, is all, and it's a frequent issue. Probably exists elsewhere in the text. Elinruby ( talk) 18:58, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
Another pitfall: important may mean "large" and this is a mistake that the tool does make. Instances of this word need to be checked against context to determine if intended meaning is "large" or "correct" Elinruby ( talk) 19:13, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
Bourg: at its most generic, just means a town. I think but am not certain however that in this context it has a specialized meaning related to fortifications. Need to check this Elinruby ( talk) 22:54, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
To do Well, this is not a list of problems.It was really intended as a list of things the translator wondered about" + some PSAs to anyone else who comes along, but since you ask, I will try to be more specific. Monuments: I saw this in the translation I just did and dealt with it -- we aren't required to translate word for word. It may also exist however in the intro, where there is something about an array of monuments? Buildings? That attest to the spread of Romanization. Just saying, the footprints of Mohammed were on the monuments list in Algeria. This may also crop up in the Urbanism section. Important: just a known pitfall for anglophones, and I know from experience that online translators have an issue with cognates. I saw three instances in the in the work I just did. Somewhere in the Roman section I changed "the important city" (Le Mans} to "the metropolis". I left "important cross-road" as "important" because what is a big cross-road? There was another instance further down, I believe, referring to a building. I changed that to "large". I think there was only one instance of bourg and it's italicized. I left it alone because hey, town is not wrong, but I seem to remember encountering it before in a discussion of fortified cities. Unsure. It is not a common word in French, at least not Parisian French. While we are discussing subtleties, "cité" is another cognate. I am uncertain how big this place was, and whether it would have been considered a city at the time. "Settlement" or "town" or village "outpost" might conceivably also be a correct translation. Hope that helps; if you think I called something wrong, just let me know. I am just doing the due diligence on the translation tool, and the text went through sell-check too, which increases the suspicion level. If you are just looking for something to do, this article is my closely referenced than most French articles but is a heavy reliance on that one archaeologist. Nice bibliography btw. I looked at your edits and liked them, but am uncertain of your French level. For all I know you're a French archaeologist ;) If you are, I commented out a section about an "enduit", which is a thingie at the base of a wall, but it seemed out of context there; that mystery is still unresolved. Some of the tribe names might still be in French. I cleaned the CTX cruft out of the wikilinks but they should still be checked to make sure they do go to the right place. Finding lots of hits on Google Scholar (Jublains), haven't done anything with those yet. There is a whole category tree at Wikipedia Commons about this site. Was the porch to the temple destroyed or demolished or did it just fall down? I used collapse, but that was a guess. I also don't know what an octostyle temple is; that should be checked. Feel free to add anything that occurs to you that you can't immediately get to at the time. Elinruby ( talk) 04:58, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
@ ByTheDarkBlueSea: There are a lot of French archaeology articles! And the draft translations have been getting deleted like this one was going to. I would be absolutely delighted to make some suggestions. Do you have any preference as to period or region? Algeria, which of course used to be part of France, needs a lot of help as well. Off the top of my head, there are definitely a lot of articles about city walls, Gaulish excavation sites, and remote villages in southern and central France. I personally was intrigued by "mother goddess" and the great fresco up top, which were new to me, but if I log into the French translation tool it will probably suggest some more in this area, now. There are also a number of child articles to this one as I recall. When I was looking at references last night I was getting a lot of hits in which archaeology sites in the region were compared to this one, which is also interesting because of the very long and well-documented excavation history. The mosaic documented in the 18th century and now on display in the museum was a particularly nice point, I thought. Anyway... I guess I could ping you to a separate section here about related/child pages, and maybe send you some examples of other articles to your talk page. There are dozens of French translations languishing at WP:PNT, also, including a terrible machine translation about a chateau and royal residence that I have been rehabbing, off and on, for years now. Most of the pNT articles are about other topics though. Give me a definition of "interesting" and I will be delighted to make that happen. Ecstatic even. Seriously. Elinruby ( talk) 15:42, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Scope creep: do you by chance know how to make this link to the French article? Elinruby ( talk) 16:12, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
yep somebody at fr.wikimedia has made the link already. Elinruby ( talk) 19:47, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
Linked octastyle via Wikidata to fr:octostyle; they describe the same thing. (As a bonus, you also get a Swedish article for free.) Mathglot ( talk) 02:42, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
In no particular order:
Followup: Working on Rubricaire, which I mistakenly deleted from See also in this article. No pressure on time. I don't have time to work on either of these articles right now, but I don't want to be the bottleneck to work getting done, so I will work on it here and there today. The article is very long, and the tool I am using doesn't publish to draft, so it won't let me import straight French. (I am draftifying in a second step) Both of these are going to be just translated enough to import, so be aware of that. A fairly important caveat: what CTX does with wikilinks needs to be carefully checked. It always pipes, whether this is needed or not, for one thing. It actually does a fairly good job with identifying en.wiki targets, but it can be wrong and a typo anywhere along the way can have hilarious results. Automatic translation is disabled coming into English, so the translated parts will be in my translation, but this will have been done really fast with the thinking that it's going to draft and will be checked. Just an FYI. And yeah, I am seeing my part in this as making this work easily available over here for people who want to work on it. Also, I did not import the infoboxes, as this does not give good results. I will take care of that later, manually, unless one of you really wants to do it before that. Elinruby ( talk) 17:16, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
Category:Archaeological site of Jublains Elinruby ( talk) 19:40, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
Check this one out: Currently not used on Wikipedia:
Elinruby ( talk) 19:51, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
I think there is enough material. We have the museum (which this image must be from) as an ILL in the See also. All of those ILLs are all interesting-looking translation possibilities. Maybe Gallo-roman archaeology? As for Jouvains, I think it got its own category at Commons because of all the great images, and that might not be true of all of them -Rubricaire doesn't seem to have much. But yeah, that is something that needs to be done, if you want to do it. Based on what I am seeing in the deep dive in JStor and Persée, what we have is a rather well-excavated group of sites that have the Roman roads in common. Jouvains and Rubricaire keep getting mentioned as relay stations. So yeah, that would be great. But if we are going to create categories there possibly should be something about that relay system. Since it was all over Gaul --probably the Roman Empire -- it might already exist. But it seems to be a fairly recent topic of interest, so maybe not. TL;DR=Sure! And I have suggestions, see above. Jouvains seems to be important enough for its own category or subcategory, but if we do the related sites some of them might not be. Maybe we should approach this a subcategory of Roman roads, if that's a category. Bottom lines, yes, absolutely please do. Elinruby ( talk) 14:51, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
A lot of that wasn't in the French text I translated, which was very focused on Naveau's work, and may not be completely in there yet. At the time I did this I was focused on mitigating the single-source aspects of the article. If you are particularly interested in one of these aspects I can probably get in some writing in the next day or so, assuming none of the couple things I am watching blows up too badly. Also, in the interest of powering through I did not match the existing citation style, which I dislike and don't want to learn, but yeah, we should have a single citation style. If you are somewhat comfortable in French, there is Persée, which has a lot of proceedings of the Académie Française etc. There is also a journal specifically devoted to archaeology in Western France. I don't remember the name, but I think I cited on it in that last batch of work I did here. Ping me if you have any questions, but feel free to improve the article and/or its presentation as seems best to you; the above are just suggestions. I spent a little time yesterday making sure the article was no longer an orphan, but a lot of that was fairly mechanical entries in See also sections that could probably be better woven into the text. The article on the current town is the most obvious example of this. I will be around but need to take care of some other things just now. Thank you for the help. Elinruby ( talk) 01:56, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
further followup exists but all of its other elements are the roads not the relay stations. Hopefully that helps somewhat. I don't think this article mentions the names of the roads that meet at this crossroads but when I translate the content doesn't always sink in, so somebody should check that. If not it an probably be fairly easily discovered if that becomes an in impediment. Elinruby ( talk) 04:51, 12 January 2023 (UTC)