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Don't get caught up in WP:BLP concerns with this one, it's already looking like a WP:COATRACK. IvoShandor 00:29, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Deleted "Burge and his fellow detective’s conduct were so outrageous that Mayor Richard M. Daley dissolved Burge’s police district, Area 3 in 1991.[citation needed]", because it's untrue. -CPD is broken down by police 25 districts. Leading multiple districts are "Areas", numbered 1-5. Area 3 (where Burge did work for a time roundabouts 1988, after running violent crimes out of Area 2) was never 'dissolved'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.79.212.130 ( talk) 16:06, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Would this image be useful? File:Http://www.moveonandshutup.org/files/images/button 0.jpg It's a button from a fund raiser held in 1993 after Burge was fired. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.163.119 ( talk) 12:33, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
"....but has been delayed by attempts to protect Mayor Daley from criticism."
Should be deleted - it's opinion. There were a lot of factors into the delay of the settlement. Perhaps most notably one of the alleged victims being under federal investigation for the same murder/arson he was allegedly tortured to confess too. Additionally: saying that the Mayor has been protected from criticism is about as non-factual as saying that Bush hasn't been criticized for the Iraq war. Quoting John Conroy in the Chicago reader is hardly NPOV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.163.119 ( talk) 18:36, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
The Jon Burge article needs a bit of rearranging, section-wise. I'm not wedded to my original section titles like "Fallout", go ahead and change things. The article could use a bit more about the discovery of the torture, it could name a few of the guys that got tortured (some of them already have a Wikipedia article), and the Chicago Reader reporter John Conway needs to be mentioned as the main guy behind breaking and pounding away at the story. Speciate 20:55, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I was confused by "A Northwestern University journalism professor and his students uncovered exonerating evidence." Exonerating evidence of what? Who was exonerated? Jeff Dahl 16:19, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Does Discovery here refer to the events being uncovered or legal discovery. If the former, the first instance of the abuse being uncovered was not by the CPD, bu by an independent newspaper, the Chicago Reader. Here is a link to the first article, "House of Screams." http://www.chicagoreader.com/torture/900126_1.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.173.199.254 ( talk) 20:14, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
A sentence in this section is misleading. "The turning point . . . " makes it seem that Burge and his secondaries began torturing over the cop slaying, when allegations of abuse went back to 1973, nine years earlier.
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Sorry, but this article really seems to push the limits of BLP. It should be rewritten and carefully sourced, preferrably using Unspeakable Acts, Ordinary People. Danny 16:37, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
No, frankly there is a lot to say. You just haven't said anything worth answering. You are about to revert to serious allegations about someone, without clarifying notability, without using impeccable evidence, and without considering the impact this may have on a person's life, or the implications for the WMF for that matter--after all, he does live within half an hour's drive of the office. And the justification for this is because you write GAs? Yes, sourcing something adequately is hard, or else we would be inundated with crap like this. Oh, and thank you for establishing that gossip-mongering, not encyclopedia-building, is the true objective of Wikipedia. Danny ( talk) 22:58, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
TonytheTiger asked me to weigh in here because of my experience reviewing featured article candidates. Tony, WP:BLP makes an emphatic distinction about using the highest quality references available when including negative facts on BLPs:
To answer your specific queries: whatever GA accepts is entirely irrelevant here (and usually at FAC as well). GA is not a community process; its standards depend on what any one editor passes, and for that reason, it has limited credibility. With respect to whether the Chicago media constitutes a reliable source, reliable sources are not set in stone and vary depending on article type and subject matter. For example, the popular press is almost never an acceptable source for the kinds of medical articles I usually edit, where the highest quality sources demand peer-reviewed journal articles and the popular press usually gets it wrong or sensationalizes medical reporting. What the Chicago papers report about Chicago politics may be our best reliable source; what they report about autism may not. BLPs require the highest quality reliable sources available, and if there are scholarly or academic publications which are superior to even a well-respected newspaper, we would not pass along newspaper gossip in a BLP. Just because a major Chicago paper (whose fact checking and reporting might be entirely reliable for reporting on another topic) publishes something, that does not automatically render that content acceptable for our higher BLP standards. I hope this helps, SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 23:31, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I, ~~~, will not add any controversial BLP material to the article that is not sourced per the book Danny and Phil suggests, without getting consensus, hopefully involving at least one of them, on this here talk page. If anyone removes any material I add, I will consider it controversial, and get consensus for it, and will not edit war about adding it back. The medical profession is the queen of professions, and Glasgow is the best city in Scotland.~~~~
I am preemptively protecting this article. There is a serious dispute regarding the allegations and sources concerning a living person, and one editor has threated to revert, and replace material that may violate BLP. Until this is resolved, any replacement of the material would be unacceptable. The article should remain as is, until the dispute is satisfactorily resolved. Dispute resolution lies open to all parties.-- Docg 23:14, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
This article is not substantively changed from the previous failed version. Phil Sandifer ( talk) 16:34, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
This is a difficult one. I was considering offering to undertake the GA review, but as it stands I think this article would have to be quickfailed again. So I'll just make a few comments about where I think it needs work to balance the POV.
This is a worthwhile subject, and I wish you luck in developing it, but I'd recommend withdrawing the article from GAN for the moment, as I don't think it's got any chance at all of passing as it stands. -- Malleus Fatuorum ( talk) 16:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Since so much is mentioned about the victims, perhaps it should also be mentioned that Andrew Wilson admitted to being a murderer and that famed alleged victim Aaron Patterson is back in jail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.176.182.94 ( talk) 02:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Can we crop http://www.flickr.com/photos/beigephotos/2622689510/ and add it to the article? Does it violate WP:BLP-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 19:54, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Ok issues that have been raised before are still apparent, but I will put the article on hold to see if they can't be cleared up: -
This article will be watched for seven days and if no signs of improvement are seen maybe failed. Good luck Million_Moments ( talk) 15:27, 28 July 2008 (UTC)!
I am having problems with these sentances: "After all of the police excesses, mere coincidence enabled the capture of the suspects. The police had been led to a co-conspirator of theirs in an earlier burglary." Does this mean that they arrested a man in a burglary, who gave up Wilson? Because I don't feel it's very clear. Possibly it's the use of the word "theirs", almost implies it maybe a co-conspiritor of the police. Million_Moments ( talk) 19:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
{copied from Talk:Jon Burge) This article has now passed the good article nomination process. Congratulations! The article is very detailed and broad in converage. Areas for furture improvement could include the tone of the article, which in some places is written more like an article for entertainment (say from a book or a newspaper) than for an encyclopeadia. Million_Moments ( talk) 14:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
This article has now passed the good article nomination process. Congratulations! The article is very detailed and broad in converage. Areas for furture improvement could include the tone of the article, which in some places is written more like an article for entertainment (say from a book or a newspaper) than for an encyclopeadia. Million_Moments ( talk) 14:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
Jon Burge was arrested today in Florida on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice. See the Sun Times article here. I'll leave the update up to you guys. -- IvoShandor ( talk) 23:47, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
This article needs a picture of Burge, uploaded with a fair use rationale. There must be one somewhere in all the news reports about him. If you find one and don't know how to add the fair use rationale, leave a note on my talk page and I'll help you out. Cla68 ( talk) 03:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I'll probably be going to some of the trial. Maybe I could take one. Cool Hand Luke 20:09, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
I should avoid editing this article, but would like to point out a small correction: the caption for Daley is incorrect. He was not a "city prosecutor." As State's Attorney, he was the prosecutor for all of Cook County. Cool Hand Luke 20:09, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Thank you to whomever made the above correction Cool Hand requested. This article will continue to need revision as history marches on in confirmation of its importance. Am not sure what to do about: "The cases against Cook County and the other current/former prosecutors continue as of July 2008. Having never been convicted of a felony, Burge continues to receive a police pension to which he is entitled under Illinois state law.[4]" so gonna hope one of you who's been working on it can fix this formerly true statement now contradicted in lede. - phi ( talk) 12:58, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
As of 6/12/2016 the article continues to contradict itself as to whether he is or is not a felon drawing a pension. Given the continued national conversation initiated by Ferguson regarding police impunity, accountability, and the possible modalities of reform (which include effects on the pensions of the culpable) it would be well if this historically important case were reliably treated here. 97.123.115.87 ( talk) 17:30, 12 June 2016 (UTC)Lewis Goudy
I've removed the Sociology project tag from this page. While sociology is interested in felons, human rights, legal abuse, and many similar topics, it does not usually study individuals. The scope of that project is in sociological concepts and terms, and sociologists. Issues that affect Jon Burge are of interest to sociologists, his case may be mentioned in some sociological works, but he himself is IMHO outside the project scope. Because on another level, every single person is of interest to sociologists due to various life circumstances, and we are not going to tag all biographies with sociology tags (or all cities, even through a field of urban sociology is interested in them in general). -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 19:44, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
I don't know what the point is about removing Fitzgerald's picture. It is used in a common manner for the encyclopedia in that article and belongs as a referent.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 06:08, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm unable to open a single Newsbank article on this page. On navigation, all I get is a page that says "requester private data is incorrect", titled "OpenURL Error", which is literally the entire document! Is this just me or is there a problem with Newsbank?? Test35965 ( talk) 22:00, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
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I edited the Lead to add cites for Gov. Ryan's actions, and rearranged that material slightly to improve chronology. It appeared that the Lead confused the order in which some things happened. Ryan pardoned 4 men and commuted sentences for 167 on death row in early Jan. 2003, while the investigation of Burge was still underway. Other convictions may have been overturned after the report on Burge was released, but that was not until 2006, long after Ryan had left office. Will review these areas in the article. Parkwells ( talk) 19:04, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
After the section discussing the acquittal of Burge on charges in the civil suit brought by Andrew Wilson, there is suddenly the following long and detailed paragraph (see below) about Burge et al.'s alleged abuses. Where does this information come from ? was it introduced into the record by Wilson? or when? If it is from the 2006 report, as appears to be the case from the dates of the cites, putting the material here interrupts what is roughly a chronological account. It also confuses the issue of who knew what when, unless there is more of an introduction for it, telling where the information comes from and when it was determined to be true. Parkwells ( talk) 21:27, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
<<Burge and other Chicago Police officers allegedly used methods of torture that left few marks. They were accused of slamming telephone books on top of suspects' heads. They were accused of using three distinct electrical devices: a cattle prod, a hand-cranked device, and a violet wand. They allegedly used a Tucker telephone, an old-style hand cranked telephone which generated electricity, and attached wires to the suspect's genitals or face. According to veteran sergeant D. J. Lewis, this was a method of torture commonly used in the Korean War, and usually results in a confession. Burge has denied ever witnessing such telephone torture procedures. [1] [2] The violet wand was said to be regularly placed either on the anus, into the rectum or against the victim's exposed genitals. [2] They also used stun guns and adapted hair dryers. [3] Burge and officers under his command also allegedly engaged in mock executions, in putting plastic bags over heads, cigarette burnings and severe beatings. At one point he is alleged to have supervised the electrical shocking of 13-year-old Marcus Wiggins. [4] [5] [6]>>
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So much has happened through the investigations of Burge, his firing and later trial and sentence, that perhaps it is time to create a new article, so that there is one about him and another about the culture of torture and problems of oversight at Chicago PD- which seemed to go beyond him. That might also be a better place for the detail on these various investigations, trials and hearings. Information was revealed that there was an internal suppressed report that supervisors knew of the torture for 12 years, for instance, which points to problems beyond Burge. In addition, the TIRC, authorized by the state in 2009, has found 130 credible cases of plaintiffs who claim torture, coerced confessions and wrongful convictions based on the hands of Chicago officers other than Burge and his cohort. This might also be a more fitting place for material about the trials of the Wilson brothers, or perhaps they could be summarized in a reduced fashion here. It is hard to follow the thread of Burge himself. Andrew Wilson's civil suit was certainly a catalyst for more investigations of him and officers under him. Have tried to keep material chronological, as well as separating the different civil suits. Parkwells ( talk) 22:08, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
It says that Burge allegedly assaulted more than 200 suspects; where does that number come from? Reports seem to conclude about 150, or perhaps those were cases they thought were more credible. To editors who have worked on this - great job in trying to put together all this complicated information that covered events, trials and investigations over several years, and now, decades. Parkwells ( talk) 00:18, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
As the article is already sprawling, I'm not sure there needs to be content devoted here to Richard Zuley, who has his own article. It seems he became the focus of attention in 2015 both because of the overturn of convictions and investigation of his cases, complaints and suits against him, and especially because he interrogated (using torture) a prominent detainee at Guantanamo, who published his memoir in Jan. 2015. I tried to provide some context for why he was being discussed in 2015. Parkwells ( talk) 19:20, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
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The following text was removed recently 1 2. However, it would be quite valuable to include the first known allegation(s) if a source can be found.
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Don't get caught up in WP:BLP concerns with this one, it's already looking like a WP:COATRACK. IvoShandor 00:29, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Deleted "Burge and his fellow detective’s conduct were so outrageous that Mayor Richard M. Daley dissolved Burge’s police district, Area 3 in 1991.[citation needed]", because it's untrue. -CPD is broken down by police 25 districts. Leading multiple districts are "Areas", numbered 1-5. Area 3 (where Burge did work for a time roundabouts 1988, after running violent crimes out of Area 2) was never 'dissolved'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.79.212.130 ( talk) 16:06, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Would this image be useful? File:Http://www.moveonandshutup.org/files/images/button 0.jpg It's a button from a fund raiser held in 1993 after Burge was fired. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.163.119 ( talk) 12:33, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
"....but has been delayed by attempts to protect Mayor Daley from criticism."
Should be deleted - it's opinion. There were a lot of factors into the delay of the settlement. Perhaps most notably one of the alleged victims being under federal investigation for the same murder/arson he was allegedly tortured to confess too. Additionally: saying that the Mayor has been protected from criticism is about as non-factual as saying that Bush hasn't been criticized for the Iraq war. Quoting John Conroy in the Chicago reader is hardly NPOV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.163.119 ( talk) 18:36, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
The Jon Burge article needs a bit of rearranging, section-wise. I'm not wedded to my original section titles like "Fallout", go ahead and change things. The article could use a bit more about the discovery of the torture, it could name a few of the guys that got tortured (some of them already have a Wikipedia article), and the Chicago Reader reporter John Conway needs to be mentioned as the main guy behind breaking and pounding away at the story. Speciate 20:55, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I was confused by "A Northwestern University journalism professor and his students uncovered exonerating evidence." Exonerating evidence of what? Who was exonerated? Jeff Dahl 16:19, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Does Discovery here refer to the events being uncovered or legal discovery. If the former, the first instance of the abuse being uncovered was not by the CPD, bu by an independent newspaper, the Chicago Reader. Here is a link to the first article, "House of Screams." http://www.chicagoreader.com/torture/900126_1.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.173.199.254 ( talk) 20:14, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
A sentence in this section is misleading. "The turning point . . . " makes it seem that Burge and his secondaries began torturing over the cop slaying, when allegations of abuse went back to 1973, nine years earlier.
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[?]You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:LOTD) 21:00, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, but this article really seems to push the limits of BLP. It should be rewritten and carefully sourced, preferrably using Unspeakable Acts, Ordinary People. Danny 16:37, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
No, frankly there is a lot to say. You just haven't said anything worth answering. You are about to revert to serious allegations about someone, without clarifying notability, without using impeccable evidence, and without considering the impact this may have on a person's life, or the implications for the WMF for that matter--after all, he does live within half an hour's drive of the office. And the justification for this is because you write GAs? Yes, sourcing something adequately is hard, or else we would be inundated with crap like this. Oh, and thank you for establishing that gossip-mongering, not encyclopedia-building, is the true objective of Wikipedia. Danny ( talk) 22:58, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
TonytheTiger asked me to weigh in here because of my experience reviewing featured article candidates. Tony, WP:BLP makes an emphatic distinction about using the highest quality references available when including negative facts on BLPs:
To answer your specific queries: whatever GA accepts is entirely irrelevant here (and usually at FAC as well). GA is not a community process; its standards depend on what any one editor passes, and for that reason, it has limited credibility. With respect to whether the Chicago media constitutes a reliable source, reliable sources are not set in stone and vary depending on article type and subject matter. For example, the popular press is almost never an acceptable source for the kinds of medical articles I usually edit, where the highest quality sources demand peer-reviewed journal articles and the popular press usually gets it wrong or sensationalizes medical reporting. What the Chicago papers report about Chicago politics may be our best reliable source; what they report about autism may not. BLPs require the highest quality reliable sources available, and if there are scholarly or academic publications which are superior to even a well-respected newspaper, we would not pass along newspaper gossip in a BLP. Just because a major Chicago paper (whose fact checking and reporting might be entirely reliable for reporting on another topic) publishes something, that does not automatically render that content acceptable for our higher BLP standards. I hope this helps, SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 23:31, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I, ~~~, will not add any controversial BLP material to the article that is not sourced per the book Danny and Phil suggests, without getting consensus, hopefully involving at least one of them, on this here talk page. If anyone removes any material I add, I will consider it controversial, and get consensus for it, and will not edit war about adding it back. The medical profession is the queen of professions, and Glasgow is the best city in Scotland.~~~~
I am preemptively protecting this article. There is a serious dispute regarding the allegations and sources concerning a living person, and one editor has threated to revert, and replace material that may violate BLP. Until this is resolved, any replacement of the material would be unacceptable. The article should remain as is, until the dispute is satisfactorily resolved. Dispute resolution lies open to all parties.-- Docg 23:14, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
This article is not substantively changed from the previous failed version. Phil Sandifer ( talk) 16:34, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
This is a difficult one. I was considering offering to undertake the GA review, but as it stands I think this article would have to be quickfailed again. So I'll just make a few comments about where I think it needs work to balance the POV.
This is a worthwhile subject, and I wish you luck in developing it, but I'd recommend withdrawing the article from GAN for the moment, as I don't think it's got any chance at all of passing as it stands. -- Malleus Fatuorum ( talk) 16:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Since so much is mentioned about the victims, perhaps it should also be mentioned that Andrew Wilson admitted to being a murderer and that famed alleged victim Aaron Patterson is back in jail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.176.182.94 ( talk) 02:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Can we crop http://www.flickr.com/photos/beigephotos/2622689510/ and add it to the article? Does it violate WP:BLP-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 19:54, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Ok issues that have been raised before are still apparent, but I will put the article on hold to see if they can't be cleared up: -
This article will be watched for seven days and if no signs of improvement are seen maybe failed. Good luck Million_Moments ( talk) 15:27, 28 July 2008 (UTC)!
I am having problems with these sentances: "After all of the police excesses, mere coincidence enabled the capture of the suspects. The police had been led to a co-conspirator of theirs in an earlier burglary." Does this mean that they arrested a man in a burglary, who gave up Wilson? Because I don't feel it's very clear. Possibly it's the use of the word "theirs", almost implies it maybe a co-conspiritor of the police. Million_Moments ( talk) 19:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
{copied from Talk:Jon Burge) This article has now passed the good article nomination process. Congratulations! The article is very detailed and broad in converage. Areas for furture improvement could include the tone of the article, which in some places is written more like an article for entertainment (say from a book or a newspaper) than for an encyclopeadia. Million_Moments ( talk) 14:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
This article has now passed the good article nomination process. Congratulations! The article is very detailed and broad in converage. Areas for furture improvement could include the tone of the article, which in some places is written more like an article for entertainment (say from a book or a newspaper) than for an encyclopeadia. Million_Moments ( talk) 14:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
Jon Burge was arrested today in Florida on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice. See the Sun Times article here. I'll leave the update up to you guys. -- IvoShandor ( talk) 23:47, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
This article needs a picture of Burge, uploaded with a fair use rationale. There must be one somewhere in all the news reports about him. If you find one and don't know how to add the fair use rationale, leave a note on my talk page and I'll help you out. Cla68 ( talk) 03:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I'll probably be going to some of the trial. Maybe I could take one. Cool Hand Luke 20:09, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
I should avoid editing this article, but would like to point out a small correction: the caption for Daley is incorrect. He was not a "city prosecutor." As State's Attorney, he was the prosecutor for all of Cook County. Cool Hand Luke 20:09, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Thank you to whomever made the above correction Cool Hand requested. This article will continue to need revision as history marches on in confirmation of its importance. Am not sure what to do about: "The cases against Cook County and the other current/former prosecutors continue as of July 2008. Having never been convicted of a felony, Burge continues to receive a police pension to which he is entitled under Illinois state law.[4]" so gonna hope one of you who's been working on it can fix this formerly true statement now contradicted in lede. - phi ( talk) 12:58, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
As of 6/12/2016 the article continues to contradict itself as to whether he is or is not a felon drawing a pension. Given the continued national conversation initiated by Ferguson regarding police impunity, accountability, and the possible modalities of reform (which include effects on the pensions of the culpable) it would be well if this historically important case were reliably treated here. 97.123.115.87 ( talk) 17:30, 12 June 2016 (UTC)Lewis Goudy
I've removed the Sociology project tag from this page. While sociology is interested in felons, human rights, legal abuse, and many similar topics, it does not usually study individuals. The scope of that project is in sociological concepts and terms, and sociologists. Issues that affect Jon Burge are of interest to sociologists, his case may be mentioned in some sociological works, but he himself is IMHO outside the project scope. Because on another level, every single person is of interest to sociologists due to various life circumstances, and we are not going to tag all biographies with sociology tags (or all cities, even through a field of urban sociology is interested in them in general). -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 19:44, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
I don't know what the point is about removing Fitzgerald's picture. It is used in a common manner for the encyclopedia in that article and belongs as a referent.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 06:08, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm unable to open a single Newsbank article on this page. On navigation, all I get is a page that says "requester private data is incorrect", titled "OpenURL Error", which is literally the entire document! Is this just me or is there a problem with Newsbank?? Test35965 ( talk) 22:00, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
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I edited the Lead to add cites for Gov. Ryan's actions, and rearranged that material slightly to improve chronology. It appeared that the Lead confused the order in which some things happened. Ryan pardoned 4 men and commuted sentences for 167 on death row in early Jan. 2003, while the investigation of Burge was still underway. Other convictions may have been overturned after the report on Burge was released, but that was not until 2006, long after Ryan had left office. Will review these areas in the article. Parkwells ( talk) 19:04, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
After the section discussing the acquittal of Burge on charges in the civil suit brought by Andrew Wilson, there is suddenly the following long and detailed paragraph (see below) about Burge et al.'s alleged abuses. Where does this information come from ? was it introduced into the record by Wilson? or when? If it is from the 2006 report, as appears to be the case from the dates of the cites, putting the material here interrupts what is roughly a chronological account. It also confuses the issue of who knew what when, unless there is more of an introduction for it, telling where the information comes from and when it was determined to be true. Parkwells ( talk) 21:27, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
<<Burge and other Chicago Police officers allegedly used methods of torture that left few marks. They were accused of slamming telephone books on top of suspects' heads. They were accused of using three distinct electrical devices: a cattle prod, a hand-cranked device, and a violet wand. They allegedly used a Tucker telephone, an old-style hand cranked telephone which generated electricity, and attached wires to the suspect's genitals or face. According to veteran sergeant D. J. Lewis, this was a method of torture commonly used in the Korean War, and usually results in a confession. Burge has denied ever witnessing such telephone torture procedures. [1] [2] The violet wand was said to be regularly placed either on the anus, into the rectum or against the victim's exposed genitals. [2] They also used stun guns and adapted hair dryers. [3] Burge and officers under his command also allegedly engaged in mock executions, in putting plastic bags over heads, cigarette burnings and severe beatings. At one point he is alleged to have supervised the electrical shocking of 13-year-old Marcus Wiggins. [4] [5] [6]>>
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So much has happened through the investigations of Burge, his firing and later trial and sentence, that perhaps it is time to create a new article, so that there is one about him and another about the culture of torture and problems of oversight at Chicago PD- which seemed to go beyond him. That might also be a better place for the detail on these various investigations, trials and hearings. Information was revealed that there was an internal suppressed report that supervisors knew of the torture for 12 years, for instance, which points to problems beyond Burge. In addition, the TIRC, authorized by the state in 2009, has found 130 credible cases of plaintiffs who claim torture, coerced confessions and wrongful convictions based on the hands of Chicago officers other than Burge and his cohort. This might also be a more fitting place for material about the trials of the Wilson brothers, or perhaps they could be summarized in a reduced fashion here. It is hard to follow the thread of Burge himself. Andrew Wilson's civil suit was certainly a catalyst for more investigations of him and officers under him. Have tried to keep material chronological, as well as separating the different civil suits. Parkwells ( talk) 22:08, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
It says that Burge allegedly assaulted more than 200 suspects; where does that number come from? Reports seem to conclude about 150, or perhaps those were cases they thought were more credible. To editors who have worked on this - great job in trying to put together all this complicated information that covered events, trials and investigations over several years, and now, decades. Parkwells ( talk) 00:18, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
As the article is already sprawling, I'm not sure there needs to be content devoted here to Richard Zuley, who has his own article. It seems he became the focus of attention in 2015 both because of the overturn of convictions and investigation of his cases, complaints and suits against him, and especially because he interrogated (using torture) a prominent detainee at Guantanamo, who published his memoir in Jan. 2015. I tried to provide some context for why he was being discussed in 2015. Parkwells ( talk) 19:20, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
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The following text was removed recently 1 2. However, it would be quite valuable to include the first known allegation(s) if a source can be found.