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Every source i've read has the vote tied and Gorton falling on his own sword - whats your source for the different outcome - and if so what was the 'real' result?
PMelvilleAustin 01:08, Aug 25, 2003 (UTC)
Neil Brown's book 'On The Other Hand'. Brown was a Liberal MP at the time, and he states that Gorton merely stepped down after a confidence vote was tied (33-33), without casting a vote against himself. Brown also states that Gorton didn't have a casting vote in any case (there was no provision for a Liberal leader to have one), so he couldn't have voted against himself.
Gerard Henderson refers to Brown in 'Menzies Child', so I'd imagine that he must have at least some credibility.
I think my edits to the article gives the impression that McMahon actually won the ballot, so I'd best change them.
Merric
Perhaps there are Aussies here who can add a bit about John Gorton's bloodyminded determination during the fixing of the price for Bass Strait oil/gas. Gorton was vilified after talking with the oil companies and setting a fixed price for five years ($1.06 a barrell?) which everyone thought was in the oil companies favour (but sure proved not to be). Anyone?
Moriori 02:47, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
I did not Vandalise Trivia I got this information from a reliable source the National Archives Check if you like send me an e-mail and i will give the URL
--
Bob
02:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
It is absolutely wrong that the Liberal Party has never held office without National/Country Party support. In 1935, the Lyons govt was able to govern in its own right. similary, in 1977, the Fraser government had an absolute majority of seats, adn the Howard Government has also held office without National Party support. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.69.191.16 ( talk) 12:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC).
Does anyone else notice that Gorton bares a striking resmeblance to a movie villain? I cant put my finger on whom, but possibly someone from the Dick Tracy movie or something along those lines. Jason McConnell-Leech 13:18, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Contrary to a source provided on the website, John Gorton using the postnominals "PC" is a violation of honours protocol as only peers use the postnominals to set themselves apart because as peers they already use the title "The right honourable". Members of the privy council who are not peers aka "commoners" can only use the prefix "the right honourable".
for more information please refer to: Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council under sub-heading "Rights and priviledges of members"
-- 202.14.81.49 ( talk) 06:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
This article lists his place of birth as Melbourne. The Australia's Prime Ministers web site [1] and his RAAF service record (NAA: A9300 GORTON J G) list his place of birth as Wellington, New Zealand. 203.7.140.3 ( talk) 06:49, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Refer to the photo of Gorton and his wife that was originally dated as "1950's" I have changed it to Ca. 1968 - Refer nla.gov.au/nla.pic-vn3683635 As soon as I saw the photo I knew it had to be later than the 1950's
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 02:39, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on John Gorton. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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In Final years in parliament -
"In 1972, businessman David Hains commissioned a series of polls in marginal electorates that showed the Coalition would significantly increase its vote if Gorton mounted a successful comeback; for instance, polling in the Division of Henty found that his return would add eight points to the Liberal vote. "
I attempted to write a follow-up to this but it got reverted by MaterialScientist with an unfair warning from him.
That passage states the results of the Hains polling which saw voting in Henty would have a difference if Gorton were restored as Prime Minister.
This then didn't get a follow-up of what was the outcome in Henty with McMahon still Prime Minister at the 1972 election.
The outcome in Henty is that the Liberals narrowly retained the seat despite a huge swing to the ALP. This is the fact I wanted to emphasise.
Hains made a particular point with Henty as he try to make his case for Gorton to be restored as Prime Minister.
The election results in Henty speaks for themselves and the reader should be given the opportunity to make their own assessments of these results based on the Hains polling.
I was merely establishing a follow-up to the Hains polling that was placed in this article by someone else. 49.3.72.79 ( talk) 12:19, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Well I don't agree with his interpretation. As I said I was expanding what it was already said based on the available facts. 49.3.72.79 ( talk) 14:47, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
It is already well known that Gorton was still a Senator when he was sworn in as Prime Minister but the question I like to ask is whether he actually sat in the Senate as Prime Minister between his swearing in as Prime Minister on January 10 1968 and his resignation from the Senate on February 1 to successfully contest the House of Representatives seat of Higgins.
I am thinking that he probably didn't as January didn't seem to be the time of year in which Parliament was in session.
Whether he sat in the Senate as Prime Minister or not this very fact should be included in the article to emphasise the position he was in, in having to resign from the Senate to transfer to the House of Representatives due to the convention of the Prime Minister being a member of the lower house. 49.3.72.79 ( talk) 11:17, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
Just found the answer to my question here: https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/House_of_Representatives/Powers_practice_and_procedure/Practice7/HTML/Chapter2/The_Ministry
"Senator Gorton did not sit in the Senate as Prime Minister because neither House met during the period between his election as Prime Minister and his subsequent election as a Member of the House of Representatives."
I am now going to put this in the article. 49.3.72.79 ( talk) 11:24, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
This
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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 19, 2019, May 19, 2022, and May 19, 2024. |
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A graph should have been displayed here but
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Every source i've read has the vote tied and Gorton falling on his own sword - whats your source for the different outcome - and if so what was the 'real' result?
PMelvilleAustin 01:08, Aug 25, 2003 (UTC)
Neil Brown's book 'On The Other Hand'. Brown was a Liberal MP at the time, and he states that Gorton merely stepped down after a confidence vote was tied (33-33), without casting a vote against himself. Brown also states that Gorton didn't have a casting vote in any case (there was no provision for a Liberal leader to have one), so he couldn't have voted against himself.
Gerard Henderson refers to Brown in 'Menzies Child', so I'd imagine that he must have at least some credibility.
I think my edits to the article gives the impression that McMahon actually won the ballot, so I'd best change them.
Merric
Perhaps there are Aussies here who can add a bit about John Gorton's bloodyminded determination during the fixing of the price for Bass Strait oil/gas. Gorton was vilified after talking with the oil companies and setting a fixed price for five years ($1.06 a barrell?) which everyone thought was in the oil companies favour (but sure proved not to be). Anyone?
Moriori 02:47, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
I did not Vandalise Trivia I got this information from a reliable source the National Archives Check if you like send me an e-mail and i will give the URL
--
Bob
02:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
It is absolutely wrong that the Liberal Party has never held office without National/Country Party support. In 1935, the Lyons govt was able to govern in its own right. similary, in 1977, the Fraser government had an absolute majority of seats, adn the Howard Government has also held office without National Party support. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.69.191.16 ( talk) 12:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC).
Does anyone else notice that Gorton bares a striking resmeblance to a movie villain? I cant put my finger on whom, but possibly someone from the Dick Tracy movie or something along those lines. Jason McConnell-Leech 13:18, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Contrary to a source provided on the website, John Gorton using the postnominals "PC" is a violation of honours protocol as only peers use the postnominals to set themselves apart because as peers they already use the title "The right honourable". Members of the privy council who are not peers aka "commoners" can only use the prefix "the right honourable".
for more information please refer to: Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council under sub-heading "Rights and priviledges of members"
-- 202.14.81.49 ( talk) 06:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
This article lists his place of birth as Melbourne. The Australia's Prime Ministers web site [1] and his RAAF service record (NAA: A9300 GORTON J G) list his place of birth as Wellington, New Zealand. 203.7.140.3 ( talk) 06:49, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Refer to the photo of Gorton and his wife that was originally dated as "1950's" I have changed it to Ca. 1968 - Refer nla.gov.au/nla.pic-vn3683635 As soon as I saw the photo I knew it had to be later than the 1950's
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 02:39, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on John Gorton. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.lodgedevotion.net/devotionnews/education-editorial-articles/famous-australian-freemasons/large-list-of-notable-and-famous-australian-freemasons/Famous%20Australian%20Freemasons%202015%2001%2009%20with%20index.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:11, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
In Final years in parliament -
"In 1972, businessman David Hains commissioned a series of polls in marginal electorates that showed the Coalition would significantly increase its vote if Gorton mounted a successful comeback; for instance, polling in the Division of Henty found that his return would add eight points to the Liberal vote. "
I attempted to write a follow-up to this but it got reverted by MaterialScientist with an unfair warning from him.
That passage states the results of the Hains polling which saw voting in Henty would have a difference if Gorton were restored as Prime Minister.
This then didn't get a follow-up of what was the outcome in Henty with McMahon still Prime Minister at the 1972 election.
The outcome in Henty is that the Liberals narrowly retained the seat despite a huge swing to the ALP. This is the fact I wanted to emphasise.
Hains made a particular point with Henty as he try to make his case for Gorton to be restored as Prime Minister.
The election results in Henty speaks for themselves and the reader should be given the opportunity to make their own assessments of these results based on the Hains polling.
I was merely establishing a follow-up to the Hains polling that was placed in this article by someone else. 49.3.72.79 ( talk) 12:19, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Well I don't agree with his interpretation. As I said I was expanding what it was already said based on the available facts. 49.3.72.79 ( talk) 14:47, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
It is already well known that Gorton was still a Senator when he was sworn in as Prime Minister but the question I like to ask is whether he actually sat in the Senate as Prime Minister between his swearing in as Prime Minister on January 10 1968 and his resignation from the Senate on February 1 to successfully contest the House of Representatives seat of Higgins.
I am thinking that he probably didn't as January didn't seem to be the time of year in which Parliament was in session.
Whether he sat in the Senate as Prime Minister or not this very fact should be included in the article to emphasise the position he was in, in having to resign from the Senate to transfer to the House of Representatives due to the convention of the Prime Minister being a member of the lower house. 49.3.72.79 ( talk) 11:17, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
Just found the answer to my question here: https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/House_of_Representatives/Powers_practice_and_procedure/Practice7/HTML/Chapter2/The_Ministry
"Senator Gorton did not sit in the Senate as Prime Minister because neither House met during the period between his election as Prime Minister and his subsequent election as a Member of the House of Representatives."
I am now going to put this in the article. 49.3.72.79 ( talk) 11:24, 23 September 2021 (UTC)