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for a movie with such good work in recreation of the mughal era and the wonderful sets, no credit/reference to the art director is given.
Whatever the name of this film, the key disclaimer is missing from the main page: This movie is a WORK OF FICTION' and has no bearing with real/historic events. All similarities are coincidental. The story is not to be confused with the real emperor Jalaluddin a.k.a. Akbar. As for confusion with the "real" Jodhabai, the question does not arise as she is a fictional character' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.22.196.75 ( talk) 23:10, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Err, what IS the title for the film? Is it Akbar-Jodha or Jodha-Akbar? Could someone provide a link or something to clarify this matter? Thanks! -- Hariharan91 19:32, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
heres a new pic of the posters for this movie http://www.indiafm.com/features/2007/08/30/2989/index.html
someone add it plewase i dont kow how to —Preceding unsigned comment added by Canadianguy0987 ( talk • contribs) 21:30, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
The hindutan times review is not a valid review... review from indiafm should be considered instead of the hindustan times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pp1234 ( talk • contribs) 12:38, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Nice Ghallug ( talk) 06:40, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
i think the hindustan times review is invalid and instead the indiafm.com review should be used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pp1234 ( talk • contribs) 12:40, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I deleted the below link since it was given as a review and since the film has not even released, no review is possile. The link given is a portal like one with links to mp3 and adds. Seems like this was an advertisement to the site.
The writer is credited is "Haider Ali" (writer) and the link is made to "Haider Ali" (of 18th century). Surely, no 18th century person wrote the script. C'mon! Tatai ( talk) 08:44, 23 February 2008 (UTC) Anirban Sen
Jodha Bai is the problem here. It is irrelevant to the Jodhaa Akbar page. It is an article about a film, not the history of the name. The history of the name Jodha Bai belongs to an article named Akbar. You are adding a full coverage of the name and its history to the lead. You can provide thousand reliable refs for your additions, but if the claims are not relevant to the film and the film article, it has nothing to do with this article. Also, there are several unreferenced claims in the body, and one review from moviewalah, which is unreliable, and you keep adding it. Plus, as per WP:LEAD, the lead is here to summarise the article, and it is not a summary, you know. Thanks, Shahid • Talk2me 16:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
If you read outlook magazine ( a major news magazine published in India ) you will find the following in the article on Jodha AKbar
This pretty much sums up the "research" that Gowariker has done. He talked to many historians and each pretty much told him that jodha was never, ever the name of akbar's queen. Rather his daughter in law. From the same article in outlook:
So it is clear that Ashutosh Gowariker did talk to historians but he himself came up with the ficticious title, and ficticious storyline of this movie.
Besides if a movie makes a ficticious claim that "rajputs owed allegiance" to akbar why should this not be disputed and "the other side" presented (which you have been deleting)? Fact is rajputs DID NOT owe allegiance to Akbar and many of them *ALWAYS* considered him a foreign invader and those who gave daughters to Akbar were banished from being rajputs and no matrimonial alliance was allowed with these "degraded" rajputs. This rule was promulgated by Maharana Pratap. So why are you pushing blatant lies?
Besides you just for argument's sake make laughable claims that "gossip can be cited" thereby trivializing the opinion of all historians.
And while we are at it you might want to educate us why is it that mothers of humayun, akbar, dara shikoh, aurangzeb are mentioned abundantly in court chronicles of mughals and not of Jahangir?
Itihaaskar ( talk) 15:52, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Please be a bit more serious.
Irfan Habib is a well known historian. You not knowing him is irrelevant to this debate.
Since you have been making tall claims :
Can you show us which historians contradict, Irfan Habib; Harbans Mukhia (Professor of History at Jawahar Lal Nehru university, New Delhi) and others from various univs in India? From the article in outlook magazine:
It is high time you show us some references to back up your POV. Otherwise it is blatant POV pushing from your side! WP does not entertain such behavior. Sorry. Itihaaskar ( talk) 09:34, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
You said:
Can you please tell us which modern historians are contradicting Irfan Habib and others that have been quoted above? Itihaaskar ( talk) 07:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
You are unable to cite any historian who supports your POV. So you leave us no choice but to conclude that Jodha Bai was not the wife of Akbar. Wikipedia is not a place to rant one's personal POV. I hope we can request the page be unblocked and you will not engage in revert war. If you have issues you will raise them on the talk page. Itihaaskar ( talk) 08:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Itihaaskar ( talk) 04:28, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
You have rambled on and on without citing a single source to back up your claim of Jodha being wife of Akbar. And now you want to be the last word on the article? Wikipedia is about citing credible sources and not POV ranting. This is not a personal website where you can upload what you feel like. Two facts should emerge "not a single modern historian agrees with Ashutosh Gowariker." Second Jodha was the wife of Akbar's son. If you have a problem with these two please air them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Itihaaskar ( talk • contribs) 12:18, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Itihaaskar ( talk) 03:15, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
If it means anything, i think it is far more important to focus on the film itself rather than venture too much into historical debate. A historical inaccuracies section is useful, but a] it should be short and concise b]should certainly not be POV or disputable, or go off the track. Please remember it is a film article not a forum for historical debate. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 17:14, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
http://uqconnect.net/~zzhsoszy/ips/j/jodhpur.html
Itihaaskar ( talk) 14:57, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
{{
editprotected}}
change "Maheshdas/Birbal" to "Maheshdas/Raja Birbal"
The article does not mention that the film was banned in 3 states in India: Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh (ban lifted by high court now) and UP. Also the protests by some Rajput groups, which led to the banning. -- Redtigerxyz ( talk) 11:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Itihaaskar ( talk · contribs) has added a full block of text, regarding the historical accuracy of the name Jodhaa (the name of the female lead). Meaning, whether the name "Jodhaa" was indeed Akbar's wife's name or not. However, my review of the text shows that the paragraph was not fairly/properly written. The text clearly highlights his personal view that the name never existed.
Here is your text:
There is popular perception that Rajput wife of Akbar, mother of Jahangir, was known as "Jodha Bai".[8] However, Akbar's Rajput wife was never known as "Jodha Bai" during her lifetime.The name of Akbar's wife was kept out of the Mughal records deliberately because the islamic clergy and the mughal populace could not come to terms with the future mughal emperor being the son of a Hindu woman. In Tujuk-i-Jahangiri she is clearly referred as Mariam Zamani.[9] During the Mughal period, Akbar's Rajput wife was never known as "Jodha Bai". Neither the Akbarnama (a biography of Akbar commissioned by Akbar himself), nor any historical text from the period refer to her as Jodha Bai.[9]
According to Professor Shirin Moosvi, a historian of Aligarh Muslim University, the name "Jodha Bai" was first used to refer to Akbar's wife in the 18th and 19th centuries in historical writings.[9] According to the historian Imtiaz Ahmad, the director of the Khuda Baksh Oriental Public Library in Patna, the name "Jodha" was used for Akbar's wife for the first time by Lieutenant-Colonel James Tod, in his book Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan. According to Ahmad, Tod was not a professinal historian and depended on folk literature of Rajputs.[10] According to the historian Lifaq Ali Khan, the name Jodha Bai seems to have become popular after the film Mughal-e-Azam.[9]
According to N R Farooqi, Jodha Bai was not the name of Akbar's Rajput queen; it was the name of Jahangir's Rajput wife, whose real name was Jagat Gosain. Jagat Gosain was referred to as "Jodha Bai" or "Jodhi Bibi", since she belonged to the royal family of Jodhpur.[8] Jodhi Bibi was the daughter of Udai Singh of Jodhpur, and a wife of Jahangir. She was the mother of Prince Khurram (later Shah Jahan).
I wanna copyedit the whole section. It was terribly written and was very much POV and WP:UNDUE:
The name of Akbar's wife was kept out of the Mughal records deliberately because the islamic clergy and the mughal populace could not come to terms with the future mughal emperor being the son of a Hindu woman. In Tujuk-i-Jahangiri she is clearly referred as Mariam Zamani.
Akbar's Rajput wife was never known as "Jodha Bai"
According to the historian Lifaq Ali Khan, the name Jodha Bai seems to have become popular after the film Mughal-e-Azam.
According to N R Farooqi, Jodha Bai was not the name of Akbar's Rajput queen; it was the name of Jahangir's Rajput wife, whose real name was Jagat Gosain. Jagat Gosain was referred to as "Jodha Bai" or "Jodhi Bibi", since she belonged to the royal family of Jodhpur.[8] Jodhi Bibi was the daughter of Udai Singh of Jodhpur, and a wife of Jahangir. She was the mother of Prince Khurram (later Shah Jahan)
“ | While making the film I did my best to go by the book. I consulted the best historians and went through the most rigorous research. And there are different names used for Akbar's wife, Jodhaa being one of them. In fact, there's a disclaimer about the Rajput queen's name at the beginning of the film. But to see that, the protestors have to see the film. | ” |
Shahid • Talk2me 17:42, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
This is what you say:
Please tell us what is proof according to you? Remember you have been claiming "historians disagree" forever and yet you have have not cited a single one who disagress with Irfan Habib and others. So what does this mean? You have a POV, that you want to push in this article, that Jodha could have been the wife of Akbar because "historians disagree" but there is not a single historian that you can quote. This is height of POV pushing. I hope someone notices this and tells you that you cannot push POV on wikipedia. It is a big no no.
Itihaaskar ( talk) 05:58, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
These are things that need to emerge:
So What is the fuss?
Itihaaskar ( talk) 05:58, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
If they are just views and there isn't any concievable evidence to justify it then they cannot be taken as fact. It is very important to avoid saying something was if it is just speculation. If a number of historians have cited something PLEASE state somehting like "historians such as .... have argued that ... was never married to .... as depicted in the film although there is little evidence to confirm this". Something like that perhaps. What Shahid has said above "It is claimed by some historians that Jodha was not Akbar's wife, as is shown in the film" looks perfect also. A historical accuracy section is very useful but it can be tricky writing it so it doesn't appear POV or disputable but its bery inmportant who try to write it from neutral and balanced viewpoint e.g "historians have speculated" rather than something was something. Trust me on this I passed A-level history and special level history with flying colours and a great deal of it was writing in this way to weigh up the arguments of historians and not state something as fact in an essay so I should know something about this, Personally I think Itihaaskar you are going into too much detail and concern over this when that paragraph should not be the main section of the article. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 17:26, 29 February 2008 (UTC).
I agree completely. The focus of this should not be on the film article but rather the Jodhabai article itself. The film article should summarize historian speculation of historical accuracies in the script and characters not be an essay on history ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 15:23, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
"One should also take into acount that Jodhaa Akbar is a movie, not a history book. Since when are movies supposed to be history lessons? People who are against the movie should remember this. The diricter is not trying to say that his movie is true, he even admits to creating 70% of the movie. People who want to know the true story of Jalaludin Mohamman Akbar should look it up themselves."
This is tainted by the POV of the author. Please revise so that it is neutral towards both sides of the dispute. bigminisachin1231 ( talk) 03:17, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
I propose to change the BOI link of the gross figure with this box office mojo link stating the films gross as $26,890,354. Plz state you views. Thanks! Secret of success ( talk) 13:11, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
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for a movie with such good work in recreation of the mughal era and the wonderful sets, no credit/reference to the art director is given.
Whatever the name of this film, the key disclaimer is missing from the main page: This movie is a WORK OF FICTION' and has no bearing with real/historic events. All similarities are coincidental. The story is not to be confused with the real emperor Jalaluddin a.k.a. Akbar. As for confusion with the "real" Jodhabai, the question does not arise as she is a fictional character' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.22.196.75 ( talk) 23:10, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Err, what IS the title for the film? Is it Akbar-Jodha or Jodha-Akbar? Could someone provide a link or something to clarify this matter? Thanks! -- Hariharan91 19:32, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
heres a new pic of the posters for this movie http://www.indiafm.com/features/2007/08/30/2989/index.html
someone add it plewase i dont kow how to —Preceding unsigned comment added by Canadianguy0987 ( talk • contribs) 21:30, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
The hindutan times review is not a valid review... review from indiafm should be considered instead of the hindustan times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pp1234 ( talk • contribs) 12:38, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Nice Ghallug ( talk) 06:40, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
i think the hindustan times review is invalid and instead the indiafm.com review should be used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pp1234 ( talk • contribs) 12:40, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I deleted the below link since it was given as a review and since the film has not even released, no review is possile. The link given is a portal like one with links to mp3 and adds. Seems like this was an advertisement to the site.
The writer is credited is "Haider Ali" (writer) and the link is made to "Haider Ali" (of 18th century). Surely, no 18th century person wrote the script. C'mon! Tatai ( talk) 08:44, 23 February 2008 (UTC) Anirban Sen
Jodha Bai is the problem here. It is irrelevant to the Jodhaa Akbar page. It is an article about a film, not the history of the name. The history of the name Jodha Bai belongs to an article named Akbar. You are adding a full coverage of the name and its history to the lead. You can provide thousand reliable refs for your additions, but if the claims are not relevant to the film and the film article, it has nothing to do with this article. Also, there are several unreferenced claims in the body, and one review from moviewalah, which is unreliable, and you keep adding it. Plus, as per WP:LEAD, the lead is here to summarise the article, and it is not a summary, you know. Thanks, Shahid • Talk2me 16:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
If you read outlook magazine ( a major news magazine published in India ) you will find the following in the article on Jodha AKbar
This pretty much sums up the "research" that Gowariker has done. He talked to many historians and each pretty much told him that jodha was never, ever the name of akbar's queen. Rather his daughter in law. From the same article in outlook:
So it is clear that Ashutosh Gowariker did talk to historians but he himself came up with the ficticious title, and ficticious storyline of this movie.
Besides if a movie makes a ficticious claim that "rajputs owed allegiance" to akbar why should this not be disputed and "the other side" presented (which you have been deleting)? Fact is rajputs DID NOT owe allegiance to Akbar and many of them *ALWAYS* considered him a foreign invader and those who gave daughters to Akbar were banished from being rajputs and no matrimonial alliance was allowed with these "degraded" rajputs. This rule was promulgated by Maharana Pratap. So why are you pushing blatant lies?
Besides you just for argument's sake make laughable claims that "gossip can be cited" thereby trivializing the opinion of all historians.
And while we are at it you might want to educate us why is it that mothers of humayun, akbar, dara shikoh, aurangzeb are mentioned abundantly in court chronicles of mughals and not of Jahangir?
Itihaaskar ( talk) 15:52, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Please be a bit more serious.
Irfan Habib is a well known historian. You not knowing him is irrelevant to this debate.
Since you have been making tall claims :
Can you show us which historians contradict, Irfan Habib; Harbans Mukhia (Professor of History at Jawahar Lal Nehru university, New Delhi) and others from various univs in India? From the article in outlook magazine:
It is high time you show us some references to back up your POV. Otherwise it is blatant POV pushing from your side! WP does not entertain such behavior. Sorry. Itihaaskar ( talk) 09:34, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
You said:
Can you please tell us which modern historians are contradicting Irfan Habib and others that have been quoted above? Itihaaskar ( talk) 07:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
You are unable to cite any historian who supports your POV. So you leave us no choice but to conclude that Jodha Bai was not the wife of Akbar. Wikipedia is not a place to rant one's personal POV. I hope we can request the page be unblocked and you will not engage in revert war. If you have issues you will raise them on the talk page. Itihaaskar ( talk) 08:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Itihaaskar ( talk) 04:28, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
You have rambled on and on without citing a single source to back up your claim of Jodha being wife of Akbar. And now you want to be the last word on the article? Wikipedia is about citing credible sources and not POV ranting. This is not a personal website where you can upload what you feel like. Two facts should emerge "not a single modern historian agrees with Ashutosh Gowariker." Second Jodha was the wife of Akbar's son. If you have a problem with these two please air them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Itihaaskar ( talk • contribs) 12:18, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Itihaaskar ( talk) 03:15, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
If it means anything, i think it is far more important to focus on the film itself rather than venture too much into historical debate. A historical inaccuracies section is useful, but a] it should be short and concise b]should certainly not be POV or disputable, or go off the track. Please remember it is a film article not a forum for historical debate. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 17:14, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
http://uqconnect.net/~zzhsoszy/ips/j/jodhpur.html
Itihaaskar ( talk) 14:57, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
{{
editprotected}}
change "Maheshdas/Birbal" to "Maheshdas/Raja Birbal"
The article does not mention that the film was banned in 3 states in India: Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh (ban lifted by high court now) and UP. Also the protests by some Rajput groups, which led to the banning. -- Redtigerxyz ( talk) 11:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Itihaaskar ( talk · contribs) has added a full block of text, regarding the historical accuracy of the name Jodhaa (the name of the female lead). Meaning, whether the name "Jodhaa" was indeed Akbar's wife's name or not. However, my review of the text shows that the paragraph was not fairly/properly written. The text clearly highlights his personal view that the name never existed.
Here is your text:
There is popular perception that Rajput wife of Akbar, mother of Jahangir, was known as "Jodha Bai".[8] However, Akbar's Rajput wife was never known as "Jodha Bai" during her lifetime.The name of Akbar's wife was kept out of the Mughal records deliberately because the islamic clergy and the mughal populace could not come to terms with the future mughal emperor being the son of a Hindu woman. In Tujuk-i-Jahangiri she is clearly referred as Mariam Zamani.[9] During the Mughal period, Akbar's Rajput wife was never known as "Jodha Bai". Neither the Akbarnama (a biography of Akbar commissioned by Akbar himself), nor any historical text from the period refer to her as Jodha Bai.[9]
According to Professor Shirin Moosvi, a historian of Aligarh Muslim University, the name "Jodha Bai" was first used to refer to Akbar's wife in the 18th and 19th centuries in historical writings.[9] According to the historian Imtiaz Ahmad, the director of the Khuda Baksh Oriental Public Library in Patna, the name "Jodha" was used for Akbar's wife for the first time by Lieutenant-Colonel James Tod, in his book Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan. According to Ahmad, Tod was not a professinal historian and depended on folk literature of Rajputs.[10] According to the historian Lifaq Ali Khan, the name Jodha Bai seems to have become popular after the film Mughal-e-Azam.[9]
According to N R Farooqi, Jodha Bai was not the name of Akbar's Rajput queen; it was the name of Jahangir's Rajput wife, whose real name was Jagat Gosain. Jagat Gosain was referred to as "Jodha Bai" or "Jodhi Bibi", since she belonged to the royal family of Jodhpur.[8] Jodhi Bibi was the daughter of Udai Singh of Jodhpur, and a wife of Jahangir. She was the mother of Prince Khurram (later Shah Jahan).
I wanna copyedit the whole section. It was terribly written and was very much POV and WP:UNDUE:
The name of Akbar's wife was kept out of the Mughal records deliberately because the islamic clergy and the mughal populace could not come to terms with the future mughal emperor being the son of a Hindu woman. In Tujuk-i-Jahangiri she is clearly referred as Mariam Zamani.
Akbar's Rajput wife was never known as "Jodha Bai"
According to the historian Lifaq Ali Khan, the name Jodha Bai seems to have become popular after the film Mughal-e-Azam.
According to N R Farooqi, Jodha Bai was not the name of Akbar's Rajput queen; it was the name of Jahangir's Rajput wife, whose real name was Jagat Gosain. Jagat Gosain was referred to as "Jodha Bai" or "Jodhi Bibi", since she belonged to the royal family of Jodhpur.[8] Jodhi Bibi was the daughter of Udai Singh of Jodhpur, and a wife of Jahangir. She was the mother of Prince Khurram (later Shah Jahan)
“ | While making the film I did my best to go by the book. I consulted the best historians and went through the most rigorous research. And there are different names used for Akbar's wife, Jodhaa being one of them. In fact, there's a disclaimer about the Rajput queen's name at the beginning of the film. But to see that, the protestors have to see the film. | ” |
Shahid • Talk2me 17:42, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
This is what you say:
Please tell us what is proof according to you? Remember you have been claiming "historians disagree" forever and yet you have have not cited a single one who disagress with Irfan Habib and others. So what does this mean? You have a POV, that you want to push in this article, that Jodha could have been the wife of Akbar because "historians disagree" but there is not a single historian that you can quote. This is height of POV pushing. I hope someone notices this and tells you that you cannot push POV on wikipedia. It is a big no no.
Itihaaskar ( talk) 05:58, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
These are things that need to emerge:
So What is the fuss?
Itihaaskar ( talk) 05:58, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
If they are just views and there isn't any concievable evidence to justify it then they cannot be taken as fact. It is very important to avoid saying something was if it is just speculation. If a number of historians have cited something PLEASE state somehting like "historians such as .... have argued that ... was never married to .... as depicted in the film although there is little evidence to confirm this". Something like that perhaps. What Shahid has said above "It is claimed by some historians that Jodha was not Akbar's wife, as is shown in the film" looks perfect also. A historical accuracy section is very useful but it can be tricky writing it so it doesn't appear POV or disputable but its bery inmportant who try to write it from neutral and balanced viewpoint e.g "historians have speculated" rather than something was something. Trust me on this I passed A-level history and special level history with flying colours and a great deal of it was writing in this way to weigh up the arguments of historians and not state something as fact in an essay so I should know something about this, Personally I think Itihaaskar you are going into too much detail and concern over this when that paragraph should not be the main section of the article. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 17:26, 29 February 2008 (UTC).
I agree completely. The focus of this should not be on the film article but rather the Jodhabai article itself. The film article should summarize historian speculation of historical accuracies in the script and characters not be an essay on history ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 15:23, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
"One should also take into acount that Jodhaa Akbar is a movie, not a history book. Since when are movies supposed to be history lessons? People who are against the movie should remember this. The diricter is not trying to say that his movie is true, he even admits to creating 70% of the movie. People who want to know the true story of Jalaludin Mohamman Akbar should look it up themselves."
This is tainted by the POV of the author. Please revise so that it is neutral towards both sides of the dispute. bigminisachin1231 ( talk) 03:17, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
I propose to change the BOI link of the gross figure with this box office mojo link stating the films gross as $26,890,354. Plz state you views. Thanks! Secret of success ( talk) 13:11, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
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