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The Michael Chabon quote in the Quotes section turned out not be an actual quote, but a paraphrase. The original site is now defunct; here is what it says on the cached page at [1]
"The Inescapable Truth" by Adam Messano
What: The first ever meeting between Jim Steranko and Michael Chabon Where: Lee's Comics in Mountain View When: Saturday, December 14, 2002
"The following is a reproduction of questions and answers given at the first ever meeting between legendary Marvel Comics artist and one-time escape artist Jim Steranko, and the author of the Pulitzer Prize winning "The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay," Michael Chabon."
As a note before we dive into the transcript, Jim Steranko is reported to be the influence behind Jack Kirby creating Mr. Miracle. Mr. Steranko was an escape artist for years in the late 1950's, before his brief but significant run as a writer/artist at Marvel Comics. This, along with his later chronicling of the history of comic books, served as great influences on Mr. Chabon.
The following was written down during the meeting of Jim Steranko and Michael Chabon at Lee's Comics on Saturday, December 14th. This is not reproduced from a tape recording, and as such should not be considered verbatim quotes.
Michael Chabon (opening remarks): "I would never have written Kavalier and Clay without [Jim Steranko's] History of Comics. It is the standard history. When I first read it in 1970 was when I discovered that comics had a history...I was mind blown by [Steranko's] body of work. The October 1995 Comic Book Marketplace issue has a detailed account of Steranko as a performing escape artist. Up until I read that, I had heard it but never knew how seriously to take that."
Jim Steranko (opening remarks): "First, I'm very grateful to Lee for working hard to get this together. This is my first meeting with Michael. We've looked at each other's work without having contact. I'm like the mouse Walt Disney saw running across the floor. [the success of Kavalier and Clay] is a tribute to Michael's skill, talent, and vision."
Jim Steranko (on anything not historically correct in Chabon's novel): "In Kavalier and Clay, there was only one minor moment in the book. And this was with Joe painting comics covers. Maybe Green Hornet #1 or #9, but typically that was very unusual."
Michael Chabon (on anything not historically correct in his novel): "I made Joe Kavalier a refugee. I thought there were no comic creators who were. But it turns out one was, but I can't remember who it was. I started out [researching comics] as an outsider. I have many more contacts now."
Michael Chabon (on the novel's first title): "I stared out calling it The Golden Age. But people thought it was about old people. So that didn't work. Then a DC series of that name came out too. And then the same month that Kavalier and Clay came out, Gore Vidal published a book called The Golden Age. For awhile too it was called "Kavalier and Clay" only, but I added "The Amazing Adventures" to fit the movie serial element that's in the book."
Jim Steranko (on the moment now of meeting Chabon): "It's staggering to be here because a few minutes ago, Pulitzer Prize-winning Michael asked me to inscribe some comics for him."
Michael Chabon (in response): "I also looked for hand-colored Joe Kubert drawing I did when I was a kid. I used markers to fill in all right colors. I wanted to bring that, but I couldn't find it in time."
The account of his life before 1965 (when he started at Marvel) is of questionable accuracy. Almost everything sources back to Jim Steranko himself with no external validation. Examples include:
- That he played with Bill Haley and the Comets - That he put the first go-go girls onstage - His taking up boxing and fencing - That he worked in nightclubs doing magic and escape 12.96.162.45 19:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Is there a source for the claim that Steranko's art was exhibited in the Louvre in 1967? My understanding is that the cutoff date for inclusion in the Louvre is 1848. Perhaps Steranko's work was exhibited in some other Paris museum?
Mtminchi08 (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added
10:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC).
I'm sure we could remove the Hulk image without affecting the quality of the article, as the Hulk wasn't a signature character the way Fury and Capt. America were.
I think we're on safe ground with the cover gallery, since in terms of comics history they're seven of the most famous, influential, and subject-of-homage-and-tribute images ever in the medium; one rare homage page is even given in the article. They're also extremely small, very low-res, postage-stamp-sized images, which has bearing on fair use. -- Tenebrae 02:39, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I've commented out this claim until we can get confirmation. I'm virtually certain comics' first full-page story art was Kirby in an early Captain America Comics, but have no verification of that. I've heard anecdotally that Kirby also may have done comics' first double-page spread, but have no no confirmation of that either. Can anyone pin these down? -- Tenebrae ( talk) 16:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject. If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class. The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject. Comics-awb ( talk) 16:48, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
User:K72ndst added a nice photo of Jim Steranko to Steranko's article, as seen here. I didn't think it made the best use of the available space, so I cropped it, and added the cropped version to the article, see here, which devotes more of the space to Steranko, as seen here.
K72ndst disagreed with this, leaving this message on my Talk Page: "Hello: I really do not like how you cropped and edited my photo of Jim Steranko, so I am changing it back. I am a photographer, and I made a serious and thought-out decision how I wanted to best present my image. I took more than 20 of Steranko at the con, and could have had a boring photo like you have cropped my photo down to be. The reason I presented it in this way was to show the con around him. I do not want it presented in this fashion. Or I will take the image down. I have contributed many many images to Wikipedia, and never has anyone just gone in and chopped up an image of mine this way."
I cropped the photo because the article is about Steranko, not the convention, and I think the cropped version shows him better. Pursuant to K72's statements, including his intention to possibly take the photo down, I began this discussion on the WP:Images Talk Page, where a number of people weighed in, including K72, who made this statement. One participant in the other discussion said that K72's wishes should be respected, but most of the others agreed that nothing prevents cropping as a legitimate choice, and that this conflict should be resolved with discussion on consensus-building, just as any other, here on this Talk Page. Of those who opined a preference, User:Asmeurer opined that the cropped version is better, and User:Dicklyon preferred the uncropped version. So that's two for the cropped version, and two for the uncropped version. What say you? Cropped or uncropped? Nightscream ( talk) 04:40, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
I am discouraged by the preference for an out-of-focus image over an in-focus one. Further, the image is a Sepia tone, not a gray scale. Peregrine Fisher's compromise cropping idea is one I could accept, as it would yield some context, and avoid the majority ofthe fuzziness. ThuranX ( talk) 05:51, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
In reading the above, I think I have to agree with nearly everyone (and yes, I think that's possible : )
If used for the infobox, then the image should be cropped for various reasons, though I also agree that perhaps the current "cropping" may not be the best (due to ThuranX's concerns, and possibly Peregrine Fisher's suggestion).
For other places in this or other articles, the uncropped version would seem to be appropriate, for the reasons stated by the original uploader and others.
Would User:K72ndst be interested in uploading a cropped version of the photo, taking this discussion into account? If so, I think (based upon the above comments), that such a compromise might be amenable to all. - jc37 07:43, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
(ec)
The fact of the matter is, this article will not go to B Class without a photo of Steranko. This is how I took the photo and want to see it presented. It is a well-written article, and I don't think you would "crop" pieces of it to suit your "artistic" desires. There is no "fuzziness" because I took it a certain way during the convention. If you want to stick a camera in the man's face, then go to the convention and take a photo yourself. I was being respectful of him, which is what I'd like to see for my contribution. How big a deal is this? Look how terrible the Frank Miller photos are. K72ndst ( talk) 15:32, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Asgardian ( talk) 05:41, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Jim HATES this photo! Partially because there is a lot of non-Steranko art in it. He would be very pleased if you would revert to the prior photo or I can supply his official PR photo. Thanks, J. David Spurlock Agent of STERANKO — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:6000:8AA4:8300:851D:E00B:81F0:37F9 ( talk) 03:58, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
I removed an uncited, unattributed Steranko quote, as well as POV wording and another chunk of uncited content. I then tracked down the quote (at http://ohdannyboy.blogspot.com/2012/07/it-would-only-take-me-one-story-to-do.html), and Steranko's not talking about "At the Stroke of Midnight" — he's talking about a story for Epic Illustrated and mentions "At the Stroke of Midnight" in passing in reference to a later Phantom Stranger-like project with Harlan Ellison, called "Dante's Inferno":
DANIEL BEST: I read that a Steranko story will be included in Marvel's Epic Illustrated magazine. Can you give me some details about it?
STERANKO: When Rick Marschall called and asked if I could do anything for Epic Illustrated, I told him that I'm retired from commercial work. Then I remembered a story that I had done for Stan when the mystery-horror books were first coming out. I had created a character called Karstone (an anagram of Steranko), and Harlan Ellison agreed to write the scripts for the series. The character was a lot like The Phantom Stranger. He wore a white vested suit, a turban and had a cane. You couldn't tell if he was Oriental or not. I handed the story in, but Stan didn't like it because it wasn't drawn in the Kirby-Marvel style. There weren't any arms or legs flying out of panels. I was purposely trying to make it non-Marvel and drew it in the style of “At the Stroke of Midnight". There is a fight scene that is drawn very realistically and it's not as exciting as a Jack Kirby fight scene, because real fights are not like that. It was bloodier, more realistic, but less dramatic. The story's called "Dante's Inferno." I was inspired by the plot from the movie of the same name.
-- Tenebrae ( talk) 11:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Steranko's first wife was Paty Greer. After they divorced she married Dave Cockrum in 1978. Not certain of his second wife's name, or of children. However, these are verifiable facts which should be included in the article at some point.
Of perhaps less interest (since this isn't William Shatner's wiki page) is the time frame in which Steranko began to wear a toupee. There are early 1980s photos out there of him with VERY thinning hair, prior to donning the rug. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.187.214.210 ( talk) 19:58, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:53, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Jim Steranko article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The Michael Chabon quote in the Quotes section turned out not be an actual quote, but a paraphrase. The original site is now defunct; here is what it says on the cached page at [1]
"The Inescapable Truth" by Adam Messano
What: The first ever meeting between Jim Steranko and Michael Chabon Where: Lee's Comics in Mountain View When: Saturday, December 14, 2002
"The following is a reproduction of questions and answers given at the first ever meeting between legendary Marvel Comics artist and one-time escape artist Jim Steranko, and the author of the Pulitzer Prize winning "The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay," Michael Chabon."
As a note before we dive into the transcript, Jim Steranko is reported to be the influence behind Jack Kirby creating Mr. Miracle. Mr. Steranko was an escape artist for years in the late 1950's, before his brief but significant run as a writer/artist at Marvel Comics. This, along with his later chronicling of the history of comic books, served as great influences on Mr. Chabon.
The following was written down during the meeting of Jim Steranko and Michael Chabon at Lee's Comics on Saturday, December 14th. This is not reproduced from a tape recording, and as such should not be considered verbatim quotes.
Michael Chabon (opening remarks): "I would never have written Kavalier and Clay without [Jim Steranko's] History of Comics. It is the standard history. When I first read it in 1970 was when I discovered that comics had a history...I was mind blown by [Steranko's] body of work. The October 1995 Comic Book Marketplace issue has a detailed account of Steranko as a performing escape artist. Up until I read that, I had heard it but never knew how seriously to take that."
Jim Steranko (opening remarks): "First, I'm very grateful to Lee for working hard to get this together. This is my first meeting with Michael. We've looked at each other's work without having contact. I'm like the mouse Walt Disney saw running across the floor. [the success of Kavalier and Clay] is a tribute to Michael's skill, talent, and vision."
Jim Steranko (on anything not historically correct in Chabon's novel): "In Kavalier and Clay, there was only one minor moment in the book. And this was with Joe painting comics covers. Maybe Green Hornet #1 or #9, but typically that was very unusual."
Michael Chabon (on anything not historically correct in his novel): "I made Joe Kavalier a refugee. I thought there were no comic creators who were. But it turns out one was, but I can't remember who it was. I started out [researching comics] as an outsider. I have many more contacts now."
Michael Chabon (on the novel's first title): "I stared out calling it The Golden Age. But people thought it was about old people. So that didn't work. Then a DC series of that name came out too. And then the same month that Kavalier and Clay came out, Gore Vidal published a book called The Golden Age. For awhile too it was called "Kavalier and Clay" only, but I added "The Amazing Adventures" to fit the movie serial element that's in the book."
Jim Steranko (on the moment now of meeting Chabon): "It's staggering to be here because a few minutes ago, Pulitzer Prize-winning Michael asked me to inscribe some comics for him."
Michael Chabon (in response): "I also looked for hand-colored Joe Kubert drawing I did when I was a kid. I used markers to fill in all right colors. I wanted to bring that, but I couldn't find it in time."
The account of his life before 1965 (when he started at Marvel) is of questionable accuracy. Almost everything sources back to Jim Steranko himself with no external validation. Examples include:
- That he played with Bill Haley and the Comets - That he put the first go-go girls onstage - His taking up boxing and fencing - That he worked in nightclubs doing magic and escape 12.96.162.45 19:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Is there a source for the claim that Steranko's art was exhibited in the Louvre in 1967? My understanding is that the cutoff date for inclusion in the Louvre is 1848. Perhaps Steranko's work was exhibited in some other Paris museum?
Mtminchi08 (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added
10:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC).
I'm sure we could remove the Hulk image without affecting the quality of the article, as the Hulk wasn't a signature character the way Fury and Capt. America were.
I think we're on safe ground with the cover gallery, since in terms of comics history they're seven of the most famous, influential, and subject-of-homage-and-tribute images ever in the medium; one rare homage page is even given in the article. They're also extremely small, very low-res, postage-stamp-sized images, which has bearing on fair use. -- Tenebrae 02:39, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I've commented out this claim until we can get confirmation. I'm virtually certain comics' first full-page story art was Kirby in an early Captain America Comics, but have no verification of that. I've heard anecdotally that Kirby also may have done comics' first double-page spread, but have no no confirmation of that either. Can anyone pin these down? -- Tenebrae ( talk) 16:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject. If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class. The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject. Comics-awb ( talk) 16:48, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
User:K72ndst added a nice photo of Jim Steranko to Steranko's article, as seen here. I didn't think it made the best use of the available space, so I cropped it, and added the cropped version to the article, see here, which devotes more of the space to Steranko, as seen here.
K72ndst disagreed with this, leaving this message on my Talk Page: "Hello: I really do not like how you cropped and edited my photo of Jim Steranko, so I am changing it back. I am a photographer, and I made a serious and thought-out decision how I wanted to best present my image. I took more than 20 of Steranko at the con, and could have had a boring photo like you have cropped my photo down to be. The reason I presented it in this way was to show the con around him. I do not want it presented in this fashion. Or I will take the image down. I have contributed many many images to Wikipedia, and never has anyone just gone in and chopped up an image of mine this way."
I cropped the photo because the article is about Steranko, not the convention, and I think the cropped version shows him better. Pursuant to K72's statements, including his intention to possibly take the photo down, I began this discussion on the WP:Images Talk Page, where a number of people weighed in, including K72, who made this statement. One participant in the other discussion said that K72's wishes should be respected, but most of the others agreed that nothing prevents cropping as a legitimate choice, and that this conflict should be resolved with discussion on consensus-building, just as any other, here on this Talk Page. Of those who opined a preference, User:Asmeurer opined that the cropped version is better, and User:Dicklyon preferred the uncropped version. So that's two for the cropped version, and two for the uncropped version. What say you? Cropped or uncropped? Nightscream ( talk) 04:40, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
I am discouraged by the preference for an out-of-focus image over an in-focus one. Further, the image is a Sepia tone, not a gray scale. Peregrine Fisher's compromise cropping idea is one I could accept, as it would yield some context, and avoid the majority ofthe fuzziness. ThuranX ( talk) 05:51, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
In reading the above, I think I have to agree with nearly everyone (and yes, I think that's possible : )
If used for the infobox, then the image should be cropped for various reasons, though I also agree that perhaps the current "cropping" may not be the best (due to ThuranX's concerns, and possibly Peregrine Fisher's suggestion).
For other places in this or other articles, the uncropped version would seem to be appropriate, for the reasons stated by the original uploader and others.
Would User:K72ndst be interested in uploading a cropped version of the photo, taking this discussion into account? If so, I think (based upon the above comments), that such a compromise might be amenable to all. - jc37 07:43, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
(ec)
The fact of the matter is, this article will not go to B Class without a photo of Steranko. This is how I took the photo and want to see it presented. It is a well-written article, and I don't think you would "crop" pieces of it to suit your "artistic" desires. There is no "fuzziness" because I took it a certain way during the convention. If you want to stick a camera in the man's face, then go to the convention and take a photo yourself. I was being respectful of him, which is what I'd like to see for my contribution. How big a deal is this? Look how terrible the Frank Miller photos are. K72ndst ( talk) 15:32, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Asgardian ( talk) 05:41, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Jim HATES this photo! Partially because there is a lot of non-Steranko art in it. He would be very pleased if you would revert to the prior photo or I can supply his official PR photo. Thanks, J. David Spurlock Agent of STERANKO — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:6000:8AA4:8300:851D:E00B:81F0:37F9 ( talk) 03:58, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
I removed an uncited, unattributed Steranko quote, as well as POV wording and another chunk of uncited content. I then tracked down the quote (at http://ohdannyboy.blogspot.com/2012/07/it-would-only-take-me-one-story-to-do.html), and Steranko's not talking about "At the Stroke of Midnight" — he's talking about a story for Epic Illustrated and mentions "At the Stroke of Midnight" in passing in reference to a later Phantom Stranger-like project with Harlan Ellison, called "Dante's Inferno":
DANIEL BEST: I read that a Steranko story will be included in Marvel's Epic Illustrated magazine. Can you give me some details about it?
STERANKO: When Rick Marschall called and asked if I could do anything for Epic Illustrated, I told him that I'm retired from commercial work. Then I remembered a story that I had done for Stan when the mystery-horror books were first coming out. I had created a character called Karstone (an anagram of Steranko), and Harlan Ellison agreed to write the scripts for the series. The character was a lot like The Phantom Stranger. He wore a white vested suit, a turban and had a cane. You couldn't tell if he was Oriental or not. I handed the story in, but Stan didn't like it because it wasn't drawn in the Kirby-Marvel style. There weren't any arms or legs flying out of panels. I was purposely trying to make it non-Marvel and drew it in the style of “At the Stroke of Midnight". There is a fight scene that is drawn very realistically and it's not as exciting as a Jack Kirby fight scene, because real fights are not like that. It was bloodier, more realistic, but less dramatic. The story's called "Dante's Inferno." I was inspired by the plot from the movie of the same name.
-- Tenebrae ( talk) 11:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Steranko's first wife was Paty Greer. After they divorced she married Dave Cockrum in 1978. Not certain of his second wife's name, or of children. However, these are verifiable facts which should be included in the article at some point.
Of perhaps less interest (since this isn't William Shatner's wiki page) is the time frame in which Steranko began to wear a toupee. There are early 1980s photos out there of him with VERY thinning hair, prior to donning the rug. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.187.214.210 ( talk) 19:58, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:53, 5 May 2023 (UTC)