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Javanese people article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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How come sate is not mentioned in the cuisine section? It's a very popular food from Java. 203.82.92.60 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:42, 28 June 2011 (UTC).
Please refer to the Javanese cuisine link, it is discussed in more detail there User:Rosa lilian ( talk) 09:24, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Well Munir was actually an Indonesian Arab, though he might have had some Javanese ancestry. Meursault2004 20:27, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Why four of five picture is president? 202.69.101.170 07:14, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Why don't we include photos of famous people like the African American, White American, Germans, Han Chinese, Asian American and Latin American articles in Wiki? Is it not more interesting? I found the grandfather photo selling rambutan rather uninteresting. I think putting photos of artists, politicians, and thinkers, is more intersting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.126.130.140 ( talk) 11:01, 3 October 2009 (UTC) Is there any veritable source to say the old man is indeed javanese?Does anybody have a reference on that man?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.9.247.69 ( talk) 15:42, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
One of the cuisine picture is somewhat rotated 90 degress, any idea how to fix this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosa lilian ( talk • contribs) 01:54, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
How is "Javanese" called (pronounced) in Javanese? How is the name of Java island pronounced by its inhabitants? I've found a number of different pronunciations including "Java" and "Yava" but couldn't find the original...
-- Aleksandar Šušnjar 15:32, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I renamed this article from Javanese to Javanese people, consistent with the convention used with other articles about ethnic peoples. I'll have Javanese redirect here with another link to Javanese (disambiguation). -- Ginkgo 100 talk 22:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Is anyone else disturbed that this article does not cite any of its sources. Regarding the used of Indonesian, It mentiones a survey but does not cite it. That particular segment says that only about 30% of Javanese speak Indonesian. That might be the case, but I really doubt it -- all school children learn Indonesian. Also, most if not all of TV programs are broadcast in Indnesian or in a foreign language with a Indonesian subtitles. In my experience, with the exception of the very old (who grew up before wide spread general education) and the very young (who have not gone to school yet), most Javanese speak Indonesian. Dr. Lukens-Bull 11:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I think it's the opposite, about 30% Javanese speak Javanese fluently. Many Javanese people in Jakarta or outside Java island, can't speak Javanese. Like me, I understand Javanese language but I'm not good to speak in Javanese. Ario_ManUtd 08:50, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
For dedicated editors of this page: The "related Groups" info was removed from all {{ Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left here. Ling.Nut 22:54, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
An anonymous editor ( User:202.58.86.15) has repeatedly removed the sub-country regional population stats without providing any justification why they are unsuitable for use in the template. In reverting these unjustified changes I've pointed out that nowhere does the template ( Template:Ethnic_group) state that sub-country stats cannot be included. User:Merbabu has also reverted these changes, I presume for the same reasons. Until a case is provided for why the province stats, which provide a useful understanding of the widespread distribution of the Javanese people throughout Indonesia, cannot be included I will continue to revert these changes. ( Caniago 13:46, 22 August 2007 (UTC))
This is ,meant to be about the people - it is now creeping into history, and culture and goes beyond the scope of what these style of article should contain - a lot of the extra stuff belongs in other articles Satu Suro 00:36, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Notable Javanese.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 8 February 2012
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 00:29, 10 February 2012 (UTC) |
70% of this article belongs in other articles - History, Culture are not the main intent of this article, it is a misappropriation.
As an ethnic group the sheer size of population of the javanese ethnic group is an issue where transmigration in the past has seen groups try (some successes and failures) to assimilate in non javanese regions - there also significant variations in language, cuisine, depending on the regional location. Try speaking and asking a Javanese from Banyumas and Banyuwangi about things - and there are significant differences... Surabayans and Yogyakartans... the differences are many...
This article needs to be reduced in size and pruned of extraneous material which needs to be in other articles Satu Suro 10:36, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I have deleted verbose unimportant details. But after much consideration, I think some items pertains closer to people, such as social structure, literature, religion, occupations. Can we move them back? For other items such as cuisine, art, calendar, I see they are more suitable on the cultural page User:Rosa lilian ( talk) 02:22, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
The pictures of Javanese people on top are somewhat imbalanced; they weights more on contemporary figures with little historical ones. I've changed some of them to figures who lived during the colonial era. Alteaven ( talk) 02:05, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
I've trimmed the images of Javanese people in the infobox; cut down from 25 to 16 images. Displaying 25 images is too much and make the article somewhat looks like highschool's yearbook, let's just display 16 images of Javanese people that really count and famous, with historical figures and women well-represented. We should not let the infobox grow into a photo album; its layout is overwhelming the page, especially viewed in smaller laptop screen or smartphone screen. Gunkarta talk 03:42, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Does anyone know the actual population of Javanese in Malaysia? Wikipedia here says 4.3 million but according to this site, it says it 641000. https://joshuaproject.net/people_groups/17000/MY Anyone can clarify which is the correct number? ShanghaiWu ( talk) 02:35, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
Seemingly there is a significant number of commentators which support the general removal of infobox collages. I think there is a great opportunity to get a general agreement on this matter. It is clear that it has to be a broad consensus, which must involve as many editors as possible, otherwise there is a big risk for this decision to be challenged in the near future. I opened a Request for comment process, hoping that more people will adhere to this proposal. Please comment here. Hahun ( talk) 07:21, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Javanese people use Indonesian as their national language, stop equating Indonesian language with Malay, within the Indonesian constitution where Javanese people come from java islan in Indonesia, Indonesian and Malay are different
Nelson Salomo Jr (
talk) 09:52, 23 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
no need to debate, Indonesian and Malay are different, especially if we talk about law in Indonesia. do Indonesians call themselves using Malay as the national language? NO! Malay is the only regional language that has limited use on the east coast of Sumatra and Kalimantan. It is impossible to include "tribal languages" (Ethnic) as national languages while Indonesia is made up of hundreds of tribes, Bahasa indonesia is not entirely from Malay! more precisely is a combination of various regional languages in Indonesia! actually a lot of vocabulary is taken from the Minang, Javanese, and Sundanese languages. Javanese people as part of Indonesia use Bahasa indonesia as their daily language while they are accompanied by Javanese because yes! they are part of the Indonesia
Nelson Salomo Jr (
talk) 22:50, 23 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
@ Austronesier and Ckfasdf: Sorry, I didn't see this discussion before I did the last revert. I agree with Austronesier's proposal. Also, to Nelson Salomo Jr, even by using your own definition of "Malay" which you said only covers the regional language(s) spoken on the east coast of Sumatra and Kalimantan, there would still be a significant number of Javanese who use "Malay", since many of second- and third-generation Javanese transmigrants in Sumatra's eastern coast already use local Malay vernaculars as their daily languages (including myself, who use Palembang Malay as my main language at home. And yes, I identify ethnically as a Javanese). Masjawad99 💬 23:50, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
You are right ::: @
Nelson Solomon Jr: Indonesian is not Malay, they are 2 separate languages, like Malay language with Minangkabau one language group but different
Alam Bashari (
talk) 14:02, 26 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
there are only 2 "Malay" languages family, Malay and Indonesian, THERE IS NO MALAYSIA LANGUAGE! their constitution says Malay language as their national language. The new “Malaysia language” was created in 2007. So there are only 2 choices of languages : Bahasa indonesia or Bahasa melayu
Alam Bashari (
talk) 02:13, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
https://m.detik.com/news/berita/d-4762989/bahasa-indonesia-bahasa-atau-sekadar-salah-satu-dialek-melayu/
Alam Bashari (
talk) 03:03, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Alam Bashari ( talk) 08:10, 27 December 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock. Austronesier ( talk) 16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
“Bahasa indonesia memang bahasa kandung dari bahasa melayu, tapi keduanya berbeda, terlampau jauh setiap kosakata dan susunan kedua bahasa kandung tersebut”
“Hal yang tidak berdasar orang malaysia terus mengklaim bahasa indonesia sebagai bagian dari bahasa yang mereka tuturkan”
https://m.nomor.net/_kodepos.php?_i=republik-indonesia&id=12367
“ awal mula adanya bahasa melayu “versi malaysia”
“Kabinet malaysia sepakat mengubah bahasa melayu menjadi bahasa malaysia”
Alam Bashari (
talk) 08:22, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2007/11/05/group-rename-the-national-language-bahasa-melayu/
Alam Bashari (
talk) 08:24, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
http://www.ikim.gov.my/new-wp/index.php/2007/08/08/malay-language-malay-identity/
Alam Bashari (
talk) 08:24, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Intinya hanya ada 2 bahasa di nusantara
1. BAHASA MELAYU/JAWI => MALAYSIA, BRUNEI, SINGAPURA, SELATAN THAILAND
2. BAHASA INDONESIA => INDONESIA, TIMOR LESTE
Alam Bashari (
talk) 08:27, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
why is the issue of “language” now a debate? Indonesian language has always been included as Javanese page and there is no problem! why is it now a problem for editors ???
Alam Bashari (
talk) 09:23, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
References
-to de point-
GA1015 (
talk) 07:52, 2 January 2020 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
proposal that I submitted: Language =
Javanese, Indonesian
Malay (used in Malaysia and Singapore)
GA1015 (
talk) 11:41, 2 January 2020 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
@ Austronesier and Ckfasdf: Just to be clear on what the public are voting on. It seems to me as if there's a third option here:-
If I'm wrong, then forget about the third option. - Jeblat ( talk) 15:49, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
FYI (to all): three editors that have taken part in this discussion are blocked for sock puppetry. I have striked their contributions, so that they are not deleted, but appropriately qualified. @ Jeblat, Ckfasdf, and And all others: I think we can simplifiy the discussion before we go to WP:RFC or WP:DRN. I know that many accept Version 3 (Jeblat's count) as a possible compromise, but since three major POV-pushers are gone, here's my straightforward
("other variants" takes account of the case cited by Masjawad99). Is there anyone out there who is not a sock, and who would still object to this version? – Austronesier ( talk) 16:38, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Add new course in language column http://badanbahasa.kemdikbud.go.id/lamanbahasa/sites/default/files/UU_2009_24.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.192.224.172 ( talk) 13:13, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
I couldn't find the definition for "Omah Kudus" as mentioned in "The elaborately carved Omah Kudus is a fine example of Javanese woodcarving mastery." , can anybody help, so that I can put it in my translation (into traditional Chinese)? Thanks for your kind attention. ThomasYehYeh ( talk) 06:47, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
Last statistic made by British Malaya for Javanese population there was 189,000 in 1950. The terminology "British Malaya" is important since Sabah and Sarawak were not included yet, and Singapore was considered part of British Malaya. The 5 million number claimed by AlhyarJy is irresponsible, since no study had been given. All references from Kompas, Malaysiakini and article from Teruo Sekimoto do not contained any exact Javanese numbers, but only narratives of the people that migrated to Malaya. If editor insisted on the number, please provide reliable census or at least statistical study to back it up. Barapawaka ( talk) 06:43, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
I checked the sources and when it talks about "Javanen" (Javanese people) it actually omits actual people from the island of Java. The Netherlands has this weird idiosyncratic definition of "Javanese people" that includes Javanese Surinamese people from South America but excludes any Indonesians. In the Dutch language it's also common to contrast "Javanese people" (Javanen) with "Indians" (Indiërs) where the former only includes South Americans and the latter people from Indonesia (meaning that actual people from Java aren't Javanese in the Netherlands). The sources used to cite the number of Javanese people are entitled Omvang en spreiding van Surinaamse bevolkingsgroepen in Nederland (Size and spread of Surinamese populations in the Netherlands) and De maatschappelijke situatie van Surinaamse bevolkingsgroepen in Nederland (The social situation of Surinamese population groups in the Netherlands), neither of which are about "the broad definition of Javanese people" (which includes people from Java and their descendants).
Maybe a note or something should be added to the infobox that the 21,700 people figure excludes any of the circa 1,700,000 Indonesians living in the Netherlands, or that it only includes Javanese people from Suriname as the Netherlands doesn't keep statistics about ethnic or geographic origin beyond nationality. -- Donald Trung ( talk) 23:38, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
The Netherlands has this weird idiosyncratic definition of "Javanese people" that includes Javanese Surinamese people from South America but excludes any Indonesians.No. That's a wrong reading of the sources. Of course Javanese from Indonesia are called Javanese in the Netherlands. But the two sources used in this article only talk about the ethnic composition of immigrants from Suriname (pre- and post-independence) to the Netherlands. As you say, the country doesn't keep statistics about ethnic or geographic origin beyond nationality. So it's indeed unfortunate to present these figures as if they were the total number of Javanese in the Netherlands.
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Javanese people article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
How come sate is not mentioned in the cuisine section? It's a very popular food from Java. 203.82.92.60 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:42, 28 June 2011 (UTC).
Please refer to the Javanese cuisine link, it is discussed in more detail there User:Rosa lilian ( talk) 09:24, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Well Munir was actually an Indonesian Arab, though he might have had some Javanese ancestry. Meursault2004 20:27, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Why four of five picture is president? 202.69.101.170 07:14, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Why don't we include photos of famous people like the African American, White American, Germans, Han Chinese, Asian American and Latin American articles in Wiki? Is it not more interesting? I found the grandfather photo selling rambutan rather uninteresting. I think putting photos of artists, politicians, and thinkers, is more intersting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.126.130.140 ( talk) 11:01, 3 October 2009 (UTC) Is there any veritable source to say the old man is indeed javanese?Does anybody have a reference on that man?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.9.247.69 ( talk) 15:42, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
One of the cuisine picture is somewhat rotated 90 degress, any idea how to fix this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosa lilian ( talk • contribs) 01:54, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
How is "Javanese" called (pronounced) in Javanese? How is the name of Java island pronounced by its inhabitants? I've found a number of different pronunciations including "Java" and "Yava" but couldn't find the original...
-- Aleksandar Šušnjar 15:32, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I renamed this article from Javanese to Javanese people, consistent with the convention used with other articles about ethnic peoples. I'll have Javanese redirect here with another link to Javanese (disambiguation). -- Ginkgo 100 talk 22:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Is anyone else disturbed that this article does not cite any of its sources. Regarding the used of Indonesian, It mentiones a survey but does not cite it. That particular segment says that only about 30% of Javanese speak Indonesian. That might be the case, but I really doubt it -- all school children learn Indonesian. Also, most if not all of TV programs are broadcast in Indnesian or in a foreign language with a Indonesian subtitles. In my experience, with the exception of the very old (who grew up before wide spread general education) and the very young (who have not gone to school yet), most Javanese speak Indonesian. Dr. Lukens-Bull 11:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I think it's the opposite, about 30% Javanese speak Javanese fluently. Many Javanese people in Jakarta or outside Java island, can't speak Javanese. Like me, I understand Javanese language but I'm not good to speak in Javanese. Ario_ManUtd 08:50, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
For dedicated editors of this page: The "related Groups" info was removed from all {{ Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left here. Ling.Nut 22:54, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
An anonymous editor ( User:202.58.86.15) has repeatedly removed the sub-country regional population stats without providing any justification why they are unsuitable for use in the template. In reverting these unjustified changes I've pointed out that nowhere does the template ( Template:Ethnic_group) state that sub-country stats cannot be included. User:Merbabu has also reverted these changes, I presume for the same reasons. Until a case is provided for why the province stats, which provide a useful understanding of the widespread distribution of the Javanese people throughout Indonesia, cannot be included I will continue to revert these changes. ( Caniago 13:46, 22 August 2007 (UTC))
This is ,meant to be about the people - it is now creeping into history, and culture and goes beyond the scope of what these style of article should contain - a lot of the extra stuff belongs in other articles Satu Suro 00:36, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Notable Javanese.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 8 February 2012
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 00:29, 10 February 2012 (UTC) |
70% of this article belongs in other articles - History, Culture are not the main intent of this article, it is a misappropriation.
As an ethnic group the sheer size of population of the javanese ethnic group is an issue where transmigration in the past has seen groups try (some successes and failures) to assimilate in non javanese regions - there also significant variations in language, cuisine, depending on the regional location. Try speaking and asking a Javanese from Banyumas and Banyuwangi about things - and there are significant differences... Surabayans and Yogyakartans... the differences are many...
This article needs to be reduced in size and pruned of extraneous material which needs to be in other articles Satu Suro 10:36, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I have deleted verbose unimportant details. But after much consideration, I think some items pertains closer to people, such as social structure, literature, religion, occupations. Can we move them back? For other items such as cuisine, art, calendar, I see they are more suitable on the cultural page User:Rosa lilian ( talk) 02:22, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
The pictures of Javanese people on top are somewhat imbalanced; they weights more on contemporary figures with little historical ones. I've changed some of them to figures who lived during the colonial era. Alteaven ( talk) 02:05, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
I've trimmed the images of Javanese people in the infobox; cut down from 25 to 16 images. Displaying 25 images is too much and make the article somewhat looks like highschool's yearbook, let's just display 16 images of Javanese people that really count and famous, with historical figures and women well-represented. We should not let the infobox grow into a photo album; its layout is overwhelming the page, especially viewed in smaller laptop screen or smartphone screen. Gunkarta talk 03:42, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Does anyone know the actual population of Javanese in Malaysia? Wikipedia here says 4.3 million but according to this site, it says it 641000. https://joshuaproject.net/people_groups/17000/MY Anyone can clarify which is the correct number? ShanghaiWu ( talk) 02:35, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
Seemingly there is a significant number of commentators which support the general removal of infobox collages. I think there is a great opportunity to get a general agreement on this matter. It is clear that it has to be a broad consensus, which must involve as many editors as possible, otherwise there is a big risk for this decision to be challenged in the near future. I opened a Request for comment process, hoping that more people will adhere to this proposal. Please comment here. Hahun ( talk) 07:21, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Javanese people use Indonesian as their national language, stop equating Indonesian language with Malay, within the Indonesian constitution where Javanese people come from java islan in Indonesia, Indonesian and Malay are different
Nelson Salomo Jr (
talk) 09:52, 23 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
no need to debate, Indonesian and Malay are different, especially if we talk about law in Indonesia. do Indonesians call themselves using Malay as the national language? NO! Malay is the only regional language that has limited use on the east coast of Sumatra and Kalimantan. It is impossible to include "tribal languages" (Ethnic) as national languages while Indonesia is made up of hundreds of tribes, Bahasa indonesia is not entirely from Malay! more precisely is a combination of various regional languages in Indonesia! actually a lot of vocabulary is taken from the Minang, Javanese, and Sundanese languages. Javanese people as part of Indonesia use Bahasa indonesia as their daily language while they are accompanied by Javanese because yes! they are part of the Indonesia
Nelson Salomo Jr (
talk) 22:50, 23 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
@ Austronesier and Ckfasdf: Sorry, I didn't see this discussion before I did the last revert. I agree with Austronesier's proposal. Also, to Nelson Salomo Jr, even by using your own definition of "Malay" which you said only covers the regional language(s) spoken on the east coast of Sumatra and Kalimantan, there would still be a significant number of Javanese who use "Malay", since many of second- and third-generation Javanese transmigrants in Sumatra's eastern coast already use local Malay vernaculars as their daily languages (including myself, who use Palembang Malay as my main language at home. And yes, I identify ethnically as a Javanese). Masjawad99 💬 23:50, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
You are right ::: @
Nelson Solomon Jr: Indonesian is not Malay, they are 2 separate languages, like Malay language with Minangkabau one language group but different
Alam Bashari (
talk) 14:02, 26 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
there are only 2 "Malay" languages family, Malay and Indonesian, THERE IS NO MALAYSIA LANGUAGE! their constitution says Malay language as their national language. The new “Malaysia language” was created in 2007. So there are only 2 choices of languages : Bahasa indonesia or Bahasa melayu
Alam Bashari (
talk) 02:13, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
https://m.detik.com/news/berita/d-4762989/bahasa-indonesia-bahasa-atau-sekadar-salah-satu-dialek-melayu/
Alam Bashari (
talk) 03:03, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Alam Bashari ( talk) 08:10, 27 December 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock. Austronesier ( talk) 16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
“Bahasa indonesia memang bahasa kandung dari bahasa melayu, tapi keduanya berbeda, terlampau jauh setiap kosakata dan susunan kedua bahasa kandung tersebut”
“Hal yang tidak berdasar orang malaysia terus mengklaim bahasa indonesia sebagai bagian dari bahasa yang mereka tuturkan”
https://m.nomor.net/_kodepos.php?_i=republik-indonesia&id=12367
“ awal mula adanya bahasa melayu “versi malaysia”
“Kabinet malaysia sepakat mengubah bahasa melayu menjadi bahasa malaysia”
Alam Bashari (
talk) 08:22, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2007/11/05/group-rename-the-national-language-bahasa-melayu/
Alam Bashari (
talk) 08:24, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
http://www.ikim.gov.my/new-wp/index.php/2007/08/08/malay-language-malay-identity/
Alam Bashari (
talk) 08:24, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Intinya hanya ada 2 bahasa di nusantara
1. BAHASA MELAYU/JAWI => MALAYSIA, BRUNEI, SINGAPURA, SELATAN THAILAND
2. BAHASA INDONESIA => INDONESIA, TIMOR LESTE
Alam Bashari (
talk) 08:27, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
why is the issue of “language” now a debate? Indonesian language has always been included as Javanese page and there is no problem! why is it now a problem for editors ???
Alam Bashari (
talk) 09:23, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
References
-to de point-
GA1015 (
talk) 07:52, 2 January 2020 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
proposal that I submitted: Language =
Javanese, Indonesian
Malay (used in Malaysia and Singapore)
GA1015 (
talk) 11:41, 2 January 2020 (UTC) Blocked sock.
Austronesier (
talk)
16:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
@ Austronesier and Ckfasdf: Just to be clear on what the public are voting on. It seems to me as if there's a third option here:-
If I'm wrong, then forget about the third option. - Jeblat ( talk) 15:49, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
FYI (to all): three editors that have taken part in this discussion are blocked for sock puppetry. I have striked their contributions, so that they are not deleted, but appropriately qualified. @ Jeblat, Ckfasdf, and And all others: I think we can simplifiy the discussion before we go to WP:RFC or WP:DRN. I know that many accept Version 3 (Jeblat's count) as a possible compromise, but since three major POV-pushers are gone, here's my straightforward
("other variants" takes account of the case cited by Masjawad99). Is there anyone out there who is not a sock, and who would still object to this version? – Austronesier ( talk) 16:38, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Add new course in language column http://badanbahasa.kemdikbud.go.id/lamanbahasa/sites/default/files/UU_2009_24.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.192.224.172 ( talk) 13:13, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
I couldn't find the definition for "Omah Kudus" as mentioned in "The elaborately carved Omah Kudus is a fine example of Javanese woodcarving mastery." , can anybody help, so that I can put it in my translation (into traditional Chinese)? Thanks for your kind attention. ThomasYehYeh ( talk) 06:47, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
Last statistic made by British Malaya for Javanese population there was 189,000 in 1950. The terminology "British Malaya" is important since Sabah and Sarawak were not included yet, and Singapore was considered part of British Malaya. The 5 million number claimed by AlhyarJy is irresponsible, since no study had been given. All references from Kompas, Malaysiakini and article from Teruo Sekimoto do not contained any exact Javanese numbers, but only narratives of the people that migrated to Malaya. If editor insisted on the number, please provide reliable census or at least statistical study to back it up. Barapawaka ( talk) 06:43, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
I checked the sources and when it talks about "Javanen" (Javanese people) it actually omits actual people from the island of Java. The Netherlands has this weird idiosyncratic definition of "Javanese people" that includes Javanese Surinamese people from South America but excludes any Indonesians. In the Dutch language it's also common to contrast "Javanese people" (Javanen) with "Indians" (Indiërs) where the former only includes South Americans and the latter people from Indonesia (meaning that actual people from Java aren't Javanese in the Netherlands). The sources used to cite the number of Javanese people are entitled Omvang en spreiding van Surinaamse bevolkingsgroepen in Nederland (Size and spread of Surinamese populations in the Netherlands) and De maatschappelijke situatie van Surinaamse bevolkingsgroepen in Nederland (The social situation of Surinamese population groups in the Netherlands), neither of which are about "the broad definition of Javanese people" (which includes people from Java and their descendants).
Maybe a note or something should be added to the infobox that the 21,700 people figure excludes any of the circa 1,700,000 Indonesians living in the Netherlands, or that it only includes Javanese people from Suriname as the Netherlands doesn't keep statistics about ethnic or geographic origin beyond nationality. -- Donald Trung ( talk) 23:38, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
The Netherlands has this weird idiosyncratic definition of "Javanese people" that includes Javanese Surinamese people from South America but excludes any Indonesians.No. That's a wrong reading of the sources. Of course Javanese from Indonesia are called Javanese in the Netherlands. But the two sources used in this article only talk about the ethnic composition of immigrants from Suriname (pre- and post-independence) to the Netherlands. As you say, the country doesn't keep statistics about ethnic or geographic origin beyond nationality. So it's indeed unfortunate to present these figures as if they were the total number of Javanese in the Netherlands.